Have the devs confirmed ds is supposed to be a "anti tunnel perk"?
Everyone calls a anti tunnel perk that but no one has provided proof of that claim. Im not defending ds here im just curious if the devs ever confirmed that.
maybe @Peanits can clear this up
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Initially that was the official stance, but after being explained how it does so much more they’ve recanted
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Who cares and why does it matter.
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Im just curious?
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Have the Devs ever said camping is bannable, no but there’s at least ten posts a day asking for it.
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It's something one dev said off-handed during the live stream at the time that everyone took and ran with. The perk is what it is: a second chance if someone tunnels you, but also a second chance if you just happen to go down again 60 seconds after you were unhooked regardless of whether or not you were actually tunneled. The distinction/purpose doesn't matter and the perk should be judged by how it functions and what it does.
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It’s better being specialised towards an anti-camp perk than having it as a much broader second-chance perk.
There are no other anti-tunnel perk available for players, but there are plenty of second-chance perks. Specialising them instead of leaving them broad would help with balance issues.
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It was specialized with its nerf...it's only active for 60 seconds at a time.
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It’s still rather broad for it’s use. People have been using it as a distraction tool, to aggressively save other players, as immunity to do gens. It needs to be tightened down a bit so players take it for the right reasons and not the varied outplays it has to offer.
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I barely see people use it nowadays, its use outside of tunneling scenarios is too niche to take it over something like BT or Adrenaline. Using it aggressively doesn't do much good because the killer can still slug you and maintain efficient pressure.
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I still see plenty of it. I don’t take it myself as it’s not my play-style, but I always encounter 1/2 team-mates with it.
The agressive usage varies from player to player. Yes some players go down and then are left on the ground for the duration, however, some players use it to distract the Killer and abuse the long duration to increase the chase time massively.
BT and Adrenaline have the decency to do a single job with little opportunity to abuse.
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That's what it's supposed to do, even though it does an awful job as an anti tunnel perk. When a good survivor has DS they can actually outrun the 60 second timer which ends in them getting downed with no defenses against tunneling. Because of that, people have started forcing DS with lockers so they can actually use their anti tunnel perk to not get tunneled. DS is horribly designed.
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ds isnt an anti tunnel perk. it is a tool for a cocky and unsafe playstyle.
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Plenty of perks have broad application depending on the situation you're in. DS works exactly as it was intended.
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Horribly designed for who?
As a survivor, I have definitely run out my fair share of DS timers without forcing a locker pull. Why not? As long as it isn't your death hook, if you can take the Killer on another extended chase while your teammates bust out gens AND save your DS for potentially using it in end game - when it's arguably its strongest - that works for me.
Killers may think its horribly designed, but as I've said, it functions exactly as it was intended. It is not an anti-tunnel perk, and it functions accordingly.
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lol good luck with that. I turned on Twitch the other day and saw a dev streaming his killer game. he was an insidious Leatherface camping the basement. i think it was McClean.
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No, the only time it was mentioned was in this blogpost from before the changes went live: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/48381/design-decisive-strike#latest
The idea of it being purely to stop tunneling came from the community.
(YuiKim beat me to it, but I figured I'd repeat it just in case.)
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This can finally be put to rest, right?
RIGHT?! 🥴
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Peanitis confirmed it your right ds was never an anti tunnel perk
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Your welcome lol. Are you gonna make another post about ds?
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Gonna have to bookmark this for anyone else that complains about DS not being anti-tunnel. SquadW
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Who cares what the devs call it? It is oppressive and abusable.
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How is it abusable? It works exactly like it says.
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DS is the only perk that delays tunneling, its doesnt end it (besides EGC) or even counters it.
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As long as DS is up, the survivor can do whatever they want without consequence. The thing that makes it even better (better than it was before the "nerf") is that you, as killer, can't tell who has it.
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If the DS isn't anti-tunneling, it's too long to be usable for 60 seconds and shouldn't trigger on being caught.
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That isn't a consequence. 60 seconds is more than enough time for a gen to pop. After that, a survivor only has to tap the downed person, or the slug can use unbreakable and hurt the killer even more. Dstrike impacts the game either way.
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I have always considered DS an "almost guaranteed to be tunneled" perk. I had as part of my build for about a month and finally gave up because every time I used it the killer tunneled me immediately thereafter.
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It literally takes two seconds to tap a fully recovered survivor, and then they both run to a a gen. It really isn't a big time loss.
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Being on the ground for a whole gen isn't a consequence? Okay...
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Not really. The rest of your team is doing gens, and the killer is either wasting time to stay near you, or he/she has to try and track another survivor. There will be a MINIMUM of one person doing a gen while all of this is going down. Not to mention the fact that the killer isn't able to progress you another hook state, which buys even more time for the survivors.
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Being on the ground for a whole gen means your team loses out on a whole gen's worth of objectives.
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But again, that is a hell of a lot better than the survivor being hooked and then the killer being able to start another chase. The survivors get to do 1/5th of their objective, while the killer is denied a hook state.
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Well
A) Any survivor doing a gen puts pressure on the killer
and
B) You have to randomly guess which gen the survivor might be on, whereas the hook will give you information with BBQ. There is a solid chance that you won't find a survivor while you are slugging.
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So your argument is that it is supposed to be an invulnerability perk? That is so, so disgusting if that's what the Devs intended. Several times on livestrams they referred to DS as an anti-tunnel perk, and whenever someone complains about getting tunelled one of the Devs suggests DS.
Tell me, what were you doing in those lockers in the first place? Did you ACTUALLY get tunelled, or did you get unhooked and run straight into the killers face because you had a free get-out? Because in my experience, it's usually someone abusing the fact that they are immortal for 60 seconds. Which is a terrible, terrible design, especially when they vault into a locker as you are describing and force the killer to eat a totally undeserved DS or let them go without any punishment. And yes, that is the normal, average, majority use of DS these days. It is a get-out-of-jail-free card for people than can't loop or want to be obnoxious and get in your face with multiple layers of protection because they know that slugging gets you nothing unless someone is nearby. And they can even avoid getting slugged by just jumping in a locker. DS is horribly designed for everyone: the Devs, in their rework post, made it clear that they think it's a bad thing being the obsession because there is 1 perk in the entire game (and not a very good perk) that punishes it. In fact, that was their entire justification for the way it currently works: It makes you the obsession, which is a 'downside' (massive, massive buff). By definition that alone makes its design terribly thought out.
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You couldn't tell who had it on the old version. You would only know the obsession had it but others could have it too. So it hasn't really changed. Plus..... all the killers cried about the old version when that was just a case of get it out of the way early in the game or juggle the survivor to the hook. So it got changed, then killers didn't like that version either so they have spent another year bawling their eyes out about it.
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I preferred to go against the old DS. I could kobe them and deny the usage, which was a decent counter. You could also run Enduring and significantly minimize its effects. Now, DS works no matter what; it is also easier to hit.
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The problem is that killers get things changed and they still moan. Tonight I've had a killer camp and try to tunnel me off the hook because I was looping the grim pantry. The grim pantry that just got changed in the latest patch. A killer banging on about an infinite loop being abused. Bear in mind he was the huntress and could easily have used a hatchet on me when going for the window(that had a door right next to it). No matter what killers will moan for more and more to be given to them to make chases shorter and make kills easier.
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meh, It goes both ways. Back in 2016 when there were ACTUAL infinites, survivor mains (and the devs funny enough) said that they were fine. People will always complain.
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If the killer happens to find the previously unhooked survivor there is no longer 60 seconds.
Slugging (which as someone who plays both sides ) is a big advantage even if you think it isn’t. It literally takes one person off gens and/or forces another or (others in some cases) to hop off. That’s why killers do it with or without DS.
So if you wanna talk about “abusing” , think of what the game already allows you to do without the need to bring a perk, that can potentially become abuseable. There have been times where I literally bled out from how much I was slugged.
I’m not saying there are legitimate times when DS is undoubtedly strong but that goes for the killer side too.
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Slugging can be negated with a perk. The old DS used to have a perk to counter it, but now it doesn't. DS always works, even if the survivor isn't picked up. Slugging can be decent but, again, getting the hook is better overall.
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Suppose I agree with you with that first sentence... now let me ask. What happens when you can only unbreakable once, but the killer can slug you multiple times at will?
If DS “always” worked then why do I not get hit with it every time when I play killer? Even then when I do, it’s because I make a conscious choice and let them stab me to get rid of it then rather than later... even if it makes me a “tunneler” and honestly I am sometimes surprised they had it because I only find out in post match chat screen.
Again, you underestimate how strong slugging is because you think everyone has unbreakable.
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I'd say that the problem with that is that once is enough. One unbreakable can totally change the game, never mind the chance that there are two of them. You also aren't reading closely enough.... DS doesn't have to hit to make an impact on the game. The threat of DS totally changes how the killer has to play the match.
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Its handholding for baby survivors so it needs to stay otherwise a large group will feel inadequate to play this game judging by its popularity.
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So you think DS (even when it doesn't get used) makes an impact but a killer who slugs at 5 gens up doesn't?
Sorry but I have gone up against really good killers who hardly even know anyone has DS because they are THAT good at dodging it. They just don't tunnel and if they happen to find the survivor again they REMEMBER who they hooked. It's really not rocket science.
The only way that DS actually makes an impact is if the gates are open and the person gets hooked. In which you can still force a hook trade that could possibly turn into a snowball... if you're smart enough. Sometimes you aren't lucky that all the pieces fall into place like that, but it's the endgame... chances are they are getting out, 99% of their objective is complete.
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It works the other way around too. If someone suggest a DS nerf, people can't defend it as "just an anti-tunnel perk" anymore.
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