The More that gets added the more the Grind
Dead by Daylight currently has a total of 21 Survivors and 19 Killers Teachables (That's not even including the next Chapter). As we know each Killer/Survivor has 3 unique Perks of their own thus making a total of 63 Survivor Perks and 57 Killer Perks. Now let's take into account that you also need to get each Perk 3 times to have max potential so that in a way takes it up to 189 Survivor Perks and 171 Killer Perks. This is not even including the none Teachable perks such as Sloppy Butcher and Spine Chill for example.
While it is great having new characters added what's not great is the increased grind it brings. Unfortunately in game you don't really get enough points to level up your characters thus making it you have to be extremely committed to the game so get some sort of reward out of it which is not overly rewarding. Correct me if i am wrong but 1 Million Bloodpoints cant even get you to Level 50 nowadays.
A change i'd like to see in the Bloodweb to make it less grindy is for one just have Perks all set where you only need to unlock it once. This by default would drastically reduce the grind and might even make people want to Prestige as it would take less time to get to it. I think we can all agree that at the moment prestiging is really not worth it.
Second change i'd be interested in seeing is a Refund BP feature. A way to have this feature not be easily exploitable as in "buy 3000 BP item then refund it for 3000 BP" have it be 25-50% of the cost you get as a refund because i think we can only agree that there are things we have in our Inventory that we are never going to use ever do having a refund feature would mean your inventory could look more clean.
Any other thoughts or suggestions to make the current BP less grindy?
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One thing I would like to see is let survivors and killers buy their own teachables without having to use the bloodweb to do so. For example, my Clown is level... (I'm not even sure, way past 50) and I still haven't maxed out even his own perks. I'd like to at least have the option to buy his own perks on him so I can start trying for adept.
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See thats the thing, all those levels and yet you still don't have his own. I wonder if another beneficial change to the system we have currently would be the Teachables for that specific character are already maxed out at 3. So Claudette for example you would have right off the bat Self Care, Empathy and Botany at Tier 3. Just that alone makes it 6 less perks to get in the web
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It's a system that rewards the veterans for buying and grinding for everything once the new DLC release and isn't so kind to new players.
Rewarding Veteran players is great! But well, it's not so beginner friendly and in a way I think it's okay but...
I don't know what else to add. We can't just hand everything to beginners. Hm...
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That could be a nice change, at least that way new players have *some* maxed out perks without having to play 100 games.
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I think the game is fine as is while it is getting "more grindy" as more content is added they are also adding ways to add more bloodpoints such as archives challenges and plans to revamp daily challenges. If every match was a kyf with access to everything at no cost then it wouldn't be the same as the killer you played around with for 30-40 hours and prestiged to max.
Also 201 killer perks counting all tiers even if all bloodwebs were p3-50 averaging 50k a web would only be 5 million bp which sounds like a lot but with bbq 3 you average 50k a match on most killers with 8-12 minute matches around 1000 minutes or about 16.6 hours not counting any downtime. Probably minute loading times for 1100 minutes and maybe 1200 for good measure at most 20 hours to max a character from p3 which shouldnt take more than 2-3 days for a dedicated player or maybe a week at most for someone who averages 3-4 hours at most a day with wiggle room on the lower end counting daily challenges.
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I mean ive got over 1k hours in the game and even i think the grind is quite absurd. I've played grind games before such as Black Desert Online which is insanely grindy but DbD in all honesty is unnecessary grind. I also don't see how the current system rewards veterans when back in the day there was much less perks than there is today but sure
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They're definitely going to need to do something about the grind of bloodwebs, especially after saying they are planning to update prestige rewards. I've seen alot of people say they don't bother prestiging and just continue putting bloodpoints into characters at 50. I doubt people will prestige all their level 50 characters with most/all perks knowing the grind to get back all those perks unless it's some AMAZING reward. I think if you are very selective 1million BP can get you to level 35? But that's if you're not choosing purple/pink items, atleast not if you have to.
The perks themselves shouldn't have levels 1-3 on each color. This adds to the grind. Make all yellow 1, green 2, purple 3. Or if basing it on quality of the perk have each perk only be available as one color and then they can have the levels. But to have a purple perk that starts at yellow and getting multiple yellow versions then green versions before reaching purple in the bloodweb just seems wasteful.
I think if on the free track of the rift, in all those blank spots, if they added BP it'd not only make it look better but it'd also help out with the grind.
I'm hoping they not only change daily challenges to be 3 survivor 3 killer but also when the reset have it be however many you are missing. If you did all 3 you get 3 new challenges. If you did 2 you get 2 new challenges. Maybe also increase the amount of BP received for the dailies.
New BP offerings - 50% extra BP in all categories, 75% extra BP in all categories. Both for self and everyone. Right now it's either 100% or 25% for all categories but you have 50% and 75% for single categories.
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The archieves comes with the right already giving bp and rift progress so you want bp for your bp so you have extra bp to spend with your bp while spending bp. Cmon man that just sounds greedy just play the game more
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The free part doesn't look good with all those empty spots and should be filled with something. They don't need to do a ridiculous amount of BP, could do 5k or 10k. Just something because on multiple pages there's 6 out of 8 spots empty. BP is an easy option to fill them with.
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I mean they could fill it but there is really no need. of course it would look better but it would also look better if you spend a little bit of money and just unlock the path beneath it to look foward to both.
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I do unlock the bottom. The free part still looks like crap with how empty it is.
Why are you so against additional BP? Having additional BP added isn't going to hurt you or ruin the game, just cut down on the grind a little bit. It isn't taking away possible money opportunities like free cosmetics or Iridescent Shards. Are you just bored and wanting to argue? Because being against additional BP just seems like odd thing to argue against unless you are just arguing to argue.
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Im not against it there is just no reason to add it. You get free stuff for playing the game so now why do they have to all of a sudden give more.
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They don't have to, would just be nice if they did because it's just BP and costs nothing, will make free track look better without using more cosmetics/iridescent shards, and will help with the grind. There's no reason to not add BP to the empty slots aside from just randomly being against extra BP.
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1.5x BP should be the standard IMO.
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Its called bbq or were gonna live forever
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What about those perks? I know they exist. It doesn't mean that the default BP shouldn't increase with the amount of perks we have in the game now. For a new player, especially starting out as survivor, the default BP gives them so little per match. 1.5x BP is fair IMO.
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Just adding my opinion here, but I dont think it needs to be less grindy. You have shrine of secrets and can even get 2 perks in level 50 bloodwebs. I think the grind is an important part of the game. You have to decide what to level and who. It also keeps you playing and sets goals like p3 all characters or have all perks on one etc. If I had to come up with a change, I maybe would give players like 500k bp for reaching a devotion level.
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The veterans didn't have 21 Survivors and 19 killers when they started. Do you want new players to play this game? Grinding is not a GOOD thing for any players. The solution is not to "hand everything to beginners". No one is advocating for that extreme position. Just because veterans had to grind does not mean that it is good for the game. What is good about grinding? The answer is somewhere in the middle of the current situation and the the "give it all" position you alluded to.
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It doesn't help that most of the stuff that gets added is crap. When was the last time a new killer had a powerful perk by itself? Not mixed with something else? You unlock all the teachables and it's more time you need to put into your favorite character to get them all.
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They should just cut bloodpoint costs.
White Items - From 3000 BP to 2000 BP
Yellow Items - From 4000 BP to 3000 BP
Green Items - From 5000 BP to 4000 BP
Purple Items - From 6000 BP to 5000 BP
Iri Items - From 7000 BP to 6000 BP
That would cut BP requirements by about a quarter. Which with as many perks as there are, seems like it'd be pretty fair.
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My grind is done so if u want less grind they should at least give something cool to me u.u
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Have you looked at the number of bps you need to get just 1 character to p3 and have all perks available? Its stupid high, so yeah, theres a need for it
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You can get the full meta survivor build with 3 characters to level 40. Bill, David, Strode. You get BT/DS/Unbreakable/DH with were gonna live forever to get double BP while leveling it.
You can get the full meta killer build with 3 characters to level 40. You get corrupt / pop / BBQ / and IF(not meta but still amazing) with BBQ to get double BP while leveling it.
Most of the other perks beyond those are mediocre, for specialty builds, or are only for 1-2 specific killers (like stridor on spirit or monitor on deathslinger, etc).
So it's really not hard to get a full build on whatever character you want quickly, even from scratch.
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Long grind is a good thing it doesn't need to be nerfed. Games with shorter grinds die off because you reach the end goal faster.
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If you play for the grind then you should consider MMOs. Short grind is the last reason games die off. But requiring to grind as much as this game does is actually harmful for the game. There's been a number of posts how people don't buy the game on other platforms because your progress doesn't carry over and no one in their right mind wants to grind hundreds of millions bloodpoints. Not to mention people who are new and don't have a clue what they need and how much they actually need to grind.
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I feel this topic is an upset feeling about how much content is in the game without recognizing the choice in how much content is utilized by the individual players.
There are forty characters but you don’t have to work on all forty characters. Yes we have more options but a player can act like there’s only the original four survivors and three killers and be alright. There’s no requirement to move to any other character. Players choose where to put their effort.
I have a friend that only plays Meg for survivor. They prestige three’d Meg, then unlock teachables on other characters so they can unlock them on Meg. No sin here. Not too much grind because they chose to simplify their effort.
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I like this idea though
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Then that is their own fault for not doing their research isn't it? I usually hit up youtube if I find a complicated game I like and want to get better at it. There's plenty of videos showing which perks are and are not worth leveling, and you can figure out what to level within maybe 10-15~ minutes of searching?
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And if they do their research how likely are they to sign up for the grindfest? The game needs as many players as possible and the current way is not helping that at all.
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I think people play it for the gameplay, not the grind. The grind is pretty minimal to get yourself to a competitive state. Everything else is for kicks. And honestly, as survivor it's not like you really even need perks. Most of their power is embedded in the core gameplay mechanics.
There's tons of players on twitch you can see who have like 700,000-800,000+ BP sitting around at any time, and they still go into their games with the same 4 perks and 0 or brown add-ons / items and do it for hours at a time.
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In this game you have to have perks when you start to play it. No new player ever will survive without exhaustion perks for example and god forbid if they want to play killer, that's where the real grind is. Comparing to experienced players is not a good case for this argument.
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David is free. He comes with double BP and dead hard. Spine chill is free. Resilience is free. That's already one of the best builds in the game almost stock, just needs iron will. Bill is free, also comes with 2 of the best perks in the entire game. So you level up david, then switch to bill, and not even 2 characters to 40 and you might already have almost a full meta survivor build. Just needs Laurie for the DS.
Killer can be a grind but with BBQ and a pudding you can be getting upwards of 80-90k BP a game. That's way more than you will ever be making as survivor in most cases. Getting 4 stacks of BBQ is way easier than 4 stacks of WGLF.
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Maybe we could get rid of perk tiers?
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Do you really except a new player to use dead hard and WGLF? Just to get all these perks to tier 3 is a grind and you also need to get teachables.
And for killer you pretty much have to buy a DLC Killer just to get some points. And I can't imagine a new player getting even 24k. Where did you get 80-90k from? the max is 96 but that's with perfect game 4 stacks of BBQ and pudding. We are looking at 40k at best with BBQ. Killers have a lot more perks that are needed.
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This is exactly what I have been saying. The average cost of a level 50 bloodweb is way too high. I shouldn’t be playing 4 games as killer to unlock 4 bloodwebs.
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Yes? I started out with David and did totally fine. And it wasn't even because I did my homework, I just read the perk descriptions of the starting characters and it said "get more BP" so that's why I picked him. Pushing E to dodge an attack isn't rocket science, for anyone who has played a video game before this. Neither is dead harding for distance really.
I would say survivor gets maybe 15k~ a game on average, probably more like 20k if you have a good team. But even then assuming you are getting 15k and your stacks that's around 30k a game. Say a game takes 10 minutes on average. Takes ~1 million BP to get a character to 40. So about 33 games, or 330 minutes, or 5.5-6 hours of playtime. 6 hours is hardly a grind if you are enjoying the gameplay. That's not even a week if you are playing for an hour a day.
When I think grind I am thinking something like WoW, where it is gonna take you like 100+ hours to even reach the endgame. You get your full David build here, that you could take all the way to rank 1, in ~6.
You said yourself where I get 80-90k, and I would wager I get around 25k BP on average as a killer in a match. So that's 50k with BBQ, or 75k with BBQ and a pudding.
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Why settle for 50% when you can have double just use them if you want more bp
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Average 5 million if all perks were only in p3-50 bloodwebs with 50k a bloodweb / 50k average per 8-12 minute match with bbq give you about 1000 minutes of grinding with 100-200 minutes for load times. Playing the game for 20 hours at most not even considering bp addons gotten from the web cutting it down to about 80% or 16 hours to max 1 characters perks.
Also about 2 million to p1 - p2 -p3 each for 6 million or about 24 hours - 20 hours.
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Yeah, sounds about right, the only bit youre missing is you first have to get each character to level 40, which is a lot in and of itself. But yes, good maths and looks accurate
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Simple fix. They should stop releasing new content and they should stop trying to get new players. This way, the exisitng players will have time to get caught up and 100% everything.
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*laughs in veteran player*
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