Why we hate spirit
I'm making this post, because a lot of people do not understand why a lot of people hate playing as, and against, spirit.
So...
For one, a lot of people bring up the "there is no indicator" argument, which is a completely valid argument. A lot of people will counter this argument by saying, "she was made to be that way!" And to that I say.. Old legion was made to be old legion, and they were changed. And also, the fact that she has no indicator is... quite interesting. Not only does it take literally no skill to sit there and fake phase (it's literally you taking your hand off your mouse) but anyone, and I mean anyone, with half a damn brain can do that. One of the only counters to that is running spine chill, but, realistically- not everyone will run spine chill. And if you need to run a certain perk to counter a killer, it's pretty stupid. It's like saying run distortion on a scratched mirror, or off the record. Plain and simple, it's dumb to say that.
Adding on to the last argument (to separate it) it's a 50/50 at loops, and not a skill based 50/50. No. The survivor has to guess if you are phasing at loops. That is ridiculous. You can stand still and get an easy kill if the survivor makes the wrong guess. That isn't a skill thing, it's an, "aw sh*t, i'm about to be outplayed by someone standing still." thing.. The fact that it's almost a luck based thing is damn ridiculous.
Another thing, if she's running stridor, you're basically screwed. One of her only other perk counters is iron will, which I didn't mention before because a lot of people just use iron will. It's a meta perk, so it's not something to complain about because a lot of people will use it, whether it's because of spirits or just juking at loops. So, if she does have stridor- you can't do your simple, start walking and hope she doesn't have the blood addon thing. No, you basically just.. have to make a guess, again.
Which brings me to my third point- one of her best counters is starting to walk when you are certain she is phasing, because she cannot see you in phasing. Problem with that is, again, without iron will you're screwed- and if you DO have iron will, and she has stridor.. you're screwed. See the problem? If she obviously has stridor, your best bet is to run like hell and hope she loses your scratches.
In conclusion- anyone with half a brain can master and destroy with spirit, especially with the right addons and perks. And it's just really not fun to play against. Think what you want, but this is my opinion, and you can have yours. :)
Edit: Since a lot of people noticed my mistake (I forgot to do the other argument, about playing AS her. I put it in the comments though.) and are calling me "toxic" and the "reason the community is so toxic" and "bait", I will now explain my side of playing AS her.
Playing as Spirit was honestly a rough patch for me. At first, I thought I might genuinely want to learn her.. until I got to red rank survivor, and saw how awful and unfun/unfair it is to play against her every other damn match. I started playing her for a bit, leveled her a wee bit, and decided if I would level her, it would be for her perks- not so much to play her. Why? Because...
For one, I understand how much it sucks to play against her, but I won't go into that because it is "toxic" to take that side in this argument, and I do understand it. But this is ONE part of why I hate playing as her.
Secondly, it just doesn't take that much skill to learn her. Sure, she's not a one click master, but it only took a few games for me to really be able to get 4ks. A few games. As in, 2-3 games. It didn't take much time for me to fully understand the bait of her ability and how to use it. I just don't enjoy that a killer takes literally no skill to learn, wheras killers I do enjoy playing (Deathslinger and, the dreaded, Legion) do take skill to learn. I'm still learning Deathslinger, and I'm not the greatest, and definitely don't get 4ks every match (if at all), but I have improved with my shots, aim, etc since I first started playing. Him, among other killers, take skill to learn.
As a third point, I will bring up her power. It is... not my favorite thing in the world. I like playing killer to engage in chases. Spirits ability to end chases rather quickly, whether it be you killing them real quick, or them losing you, is pretty unfun to me. I like looping, and doing fun mind games, personally.
Now, since I have stated the other side, you can stop commenting how damn "toxic" I am. Thanks :)
Comments
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I do think something needs to be done about stridor itself, not Spirit. I think it should affect breathing to a higher percentage but not affect injured survivors so it wont butcher Iron will, or make Iron will work against it.
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Personally she's one of the funnest killers to face in the game. Different playstyle that I find counterable.
Don't get injured and stridor won't activate, remember the last time the killer phased for pallets and remember chases shouldn't go on forever.
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Like most OP's all you had to say was why people don't like playing AGAINST the spirit rather than both which is how you started your post. I also find it crummy how playing with Iron will against a spirit means nothing meanwhile if the spirit has stridor it suddenly becomes cheap even if the survivors have Iron will? This is one of the main reasons why this community is so toxic. People rarely think about the other side and this is a prime example of it. I understand this is your opinion but please do actually try understanding the other side rather than lying.
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I literally just forgot to add the other part, someone's salty. Jesus christ. I play killer too, ya know, just not spirit. I personally don't like playing as her because it takes little, to no skill, to learn her.
I played her a bit, and decided I didn't like it. Period. It doesn't take a whole lot of skill to stand still at a pallet and have someone vault towards you bud. It's just not fun to play as.
So, before you get your panties in a twist and say, "PleAsE unDerStanD thE OThEr SiDE BeFoRE LyIng", there you go. I wasn't lying, and I wasn't being "toxic". I even said it was MY opinion, and other people can have other opinions, but apparently you didn't read the whole thing, so f*ck me I guess?
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What i like on killers is actually diversity.
You have killers you can loop easy, and you have killer you cant.
you have killers you can hide from easy, you have killer you can´t hide from as easy.
So you have to adept and cant rely on one playstyle, no matter how good you are at looping.
And thats the think i see in a lot of those "this is wrong with killer X"-Threads: it all comes down to not being able or willing to adept.
Why is the 50/50 chance not based on skill? If you can read the playstyle of your opponent, you can make an educated guess. Its not like the survivor is pushed into your arms by the spirits ability.
But sure, thats a different playstyle than just running around in circles until you have to throw down a pallet.
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As usual, no one wants to play against anything that shakes up their usual. It's perfectly fine for killers to need 12 bandaid perks to counter normal I'll-designed game mechanics and survivor perks, but Survivors should have a hard counter to any and every killer without having to give up anything for it. Same old, same old.
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I'm pretty sure I've ran a Spirit with Stridor.
Multiple times.
Without Iron Will.
It's not that hard, just learn to play her and you get to understand what it's like to play against her. Because from playing her, you will understand what Survivors who do know how to play against her will usually do. The kind of pathing you would take to the predictable pathing most survivors would take.
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Not a big fan of guessing games. That's why I don't enjoy going against Spirit :))))))
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I don't hate Spirit. I also know other people who don't hate her as well.
Sounds and Stridor are [BAD WORD] with bugs anyway from a long time already. I don't think Stridor is worth it on her anymore, there are much better perks to run.
Nobody with half a brain is failling for the standing still mind game.
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ngl im a spirit main so i know every little thing about her and its clearly obvious when she starts to phase also the spirit is made to trick survivors to go to place to place without being seen shes a spirit. she is counterable try new things vault the pallet twice or fake out scratch marks she cant see you in phase so shes guessing where you are. when she isn't shes trying to trick you it is obvious. When she starts phasing her animation resets or changes instantly and her hair returns to normal position, "nO tHeRe Is No WaY tO tEll" yes there is and if you don't notice you're blind when she stands there keep your eyes on her and wait for the animation change its noticeable and i've noticed experienced players tend to know when shes phasing. there isnt audio que when shes phasing but there is visual.
Passive phasing is meant to be there that's the whole point of it is to reduce visuals when moving to catch survivors off guard
Also why is legion in this, legion is legion hes a different killer therefore different reasons for him.(them)
they've changed the spirit already and chances are they aren't gonna do it again
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I'm pretty sure I've 4k'ed multiple times as Clown.
With no add-ons.
Or perks.
At Red Ranks.
Clearly BHVR is wrong, he doesn't need a buff of any kind - he's actually overpowered and the rest of you need to get on my level. /s
Specific performances are not a guideline for balance.
Argue for or against Spirit as you wish, but do so without any fallacious arguments, please.
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I think Iron Will should counter Stridor because yeah, you're pretty much screwed even with Iron Will and it's just another waste of a perk slot.
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He does need some buffs, don't get me wrong. But Clown is viable in the right hands.
I'm just saying if you're going to complain about a Killer, you shouldn't say you're completely screwed if she is played by the right player. That's just giving up.
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Spirit is the only killer I said I wanted to change. People commenting are making it seem like I hate all killers you can't mindlessly loop LOL.
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Nice bait. None of what you said covered reasons why someone would hate playing WITH her. And why would they when most of what you described benefits the killer playing as her? She's a high level killer that requires high level play against her. If you don't want to play against her just suicide on hook and move on.
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Meh, standing still with Spirit only ever works with lockers. Don't know what kind of potatoes you okay against, but I rarely get a survivor vaulting toward me because they think I'm no longer there. They either wait for me to move, or disappear, or don't bother and turn around and run because they know I might appear behind them any second.
Timing things right when you can't see the survivor isn't really that easy. I suspect things would be better if gen grabs actually worked more often, but thanks for nothing dedicated servers.
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Since you obviously didn't see my comment explaining my other side, I edited the post just for you, almighty snowflake. Have fun reading!
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Recommendation..dont say we..this is about YOU..not everyone agrees with the typical printed argument
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Fake phasing is what BHVR intended on her doing. BHVR giving her some kind of indicator that she's phasing will defeat the purpose of Rin Yamaoka, but it still won't solve the problem. Why? Because all she has to do is hide her husk and she can phase.
Those that are complaining about that "I hate that she's a guessing game" y'all are literally mad that y'all have to use your brain to counter her. The only reason why I can counter Spirit as a survivor is because ik how she think. So what if her chase's are 50/50, aren't all chases 50/50 depending on if you play your cards right? She's the same way, if she makes the right reads in her chases she can win that chase. Spirit is literally the only killer I have fun playing against simply because she's not like the other killer's where mindlessly looping them is the most effective way to counter her. What's so thrilling about running in the same circle over and over and over again?
I don't have much to say about Stridor and Spirit because I learned Spirit without Stridor and when I used it on her I felt that it was too OP. The only thing I can justify about Stridor on Spirit is the current fuckery with sounds and chase music being way louder than survivor's grunts of pain.
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So, we need to change stridor and spirit? Spirit isn't as easy as she once was. And killers had to deal with iron will far longer than survivors had to deal with stridor or spirit.
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A lot of people agree with me, not saying you have to.. ofc you wouldn't know that though, because you clearly didn't read as far as to read "THIS IS MY OPINION."
Opinion: You do not have to agree with.
S i m p l e .
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I AM AWARE. THAT IT WAS INTENDED.
That does not make it balanced or fun, just because it was intended. Just saying?
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Right..a lot of people whom have 0 room to talk balance as they dont know what they speak of
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It's gonna sound like I'm attacking you when I'm not. The energy I'm getting from you is that you don't like facing a killer that forces you to play in a different way because you don't wanna use your brain, and you would rather mindlessly loop a killer?
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Uh, no. Spirit is the only one. I can tolerate any killer that can counter loops, except her. :)
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Spirit is the epitomy of what other killers should be. She's a high skill cap killer that forces the survivors to play differently and can make plays without relying on survivors mistakes like the other 90% of the killer roster which is what makes most of them weak. She has lots of counters and is one of my favorite killers to face along with Huntress and Nurse for those exact same reasons. If you practice more you will realize all the things you can do against her.
Saying she takes no skill is just blatantly wrong and tells me you haven't played her at any significant level. Most people would agree she's in the top 5 most skill requiring killers with many even putting her top 3.
Many people don't like her because she asks you to adapt and it's easier to come here and complain than learn.
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As a killer main with some occasional survivor matches, yeah Spirit's pretty easy to play and pretty dumb to go against.
Playing as her really gave me the perspective of standing still and just watching what the survivor does, and if they leave I just phase where they're going and if they don't I just hit them when they run into me trying to juke or whatever. Some survivors even stand still, I'm assuming they think you'll phase past them, but then you just phant onto them and hit them anyway. The only way to lose chase as spirit is phasing immediately and SOMEHOW losing track of the survivor, even though you have extra speed, can track through scratches, and you know EARS for breathing/injured, survivor vaulting, and even footsteps. If you lose chase as Spirit you most likely played yourself.
Playing against her really gave me the perspective of "welp, I hope I guessed right AND this Spirit is bad/messes up or I just lose." Oh, and if you're injured you're 99% screwed and might as well just accept that you're going down very soon.
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Than I stand correct! You don't like the lack of feedback she gives because
- You don't play her enough
- Your not trying to use your brain
You've gotten so use to mindlessly looping killer's that you hate having to use your brain to try to even wonder what she's doing or going to do. Idk I guess our playstyle's are different because I love the fact that she forces survivor's to use their brain
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Uhh.. literally other killers make you think differently too. It's not that I "don't want to use my brain." it's that i don't HAVE to use my brain, because it's a coin flip!
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I obviously read you crying about how unfun it is for you to play against her. And then you backed it up by simply repeating the same thing only by your perspective on the killer side. Like a typical snowflake. It was pretty funny honestly because you sound like you're still crying that you can't treat her like most killers and refuse to adjust your play style. Again, nice bait. If you want to be masochistic and run killers like Clown and Jonah Hex then that's on you. Most good Spirit players don't need to run Stridor when people like you will just give up so just suicide on hook and move on. Or keep making snowflake posts because it won't change a thing.
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Yeah um.. keep talking out of your *ss my guy. Have a great day to you too, seen as the only snowflake here is the one saying I'm "crying" about spirit when it is pretty well known that, from a survivor and killer perspective, people just do not like her. Like I said, you can have your own opinions, but being a smart*ss like this will end you in a rutt somewhere. Good luck to you too, :)
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Speak for yourself their is no “We” I like playing against Spirit and playing as her. Don’t go around assuming everyone hates her just because you do. She is in the game to be played and will be played no matter how much crying you do.
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The only thing annoying to me about spirit is how she just poofs out of sight at loops and ends up behind me because I can't tell which way she is walking to be able to move the right way.
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I didn't say "we" as in everyone. God damn all of you guys are VERY narrow minded. I said a LOT of people dislike her, not everyone. Stop assuming, it's ridiculous.
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...there is no animation change, and if there is that's a bug and it will be fixed soon. You can't ever tell based on the visual feedback alone if she's phasing or standing still, unless you look at her shards, which you can't see unless you're 2 feet away from her, which will result in you getting hit 100% of the time.
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I don't need luck. I stay as a rank 1 killer using Spirit to beat snowflakes like you all the time. No self respecting killer cries as much about Spirit being unfun except the surv mains with their bait like you. Keep staying on that hook though and try harder next time and you just might survive one lol.
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I always make Survivors like Spirit.
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😂 Thanks OP, I needed this. Maybe go outside or something?
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Playing a guessing game isn't much fun. Also doesn't help that a lot of baby survivors just kill themselves on first hook or dc when they see it's a spirit.
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Only tome I have ever seen the stand still thing was across pallets, and if you are across a pallet you can look at her to see if she is phasing or not IE she glows when she is phasing
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