inb4 killer power nerf
Lets be honest, its gonna get a nerf. Its basically everything whats annoying with looping a huntress, except that walls are non-existant. Essentially being unloopable. Which would be kinda fine, if it wasnt for the lack of charge. It's essentially Freddy and Clown being relatively unloopable, but infinitely longer.
Then you also have the ability to avoid flashlightsaves and DS, which on its own, is kinda fine, if wiggling wasnt as weak as it already is. Its gonna be fairly easy in the current situation to force survivors to get tormented. And since the torment is seemingly forever, that basically also gives him the ability to instahook forever.
His perks might need some buffing IMO, cus I thought they said they would make the person who takes the protection hit oblivious, rather than broken. And I think being oblivious after a protection hit is more interesting than being broken.
So its gonna get a nerf, 100%, and ill be here inb4 it arrives.
Comments
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I hope not it’s not op but I can see it being annoying
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This is definitely going to be one of the more controversial killers.
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Lol ok ?
Besides mom that got nerfed way later after ptb when have they not changed powers and perks before public release ?
Not gonna be new or shocking.
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I think that limiting his ranged attack to only hurt survivors inflicted by torment would be a decent nerf, then again torment is easy to apply.
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Anyone that doesn't see that this killer is insanely overpowered is biased as hell. Nerfs are needed.
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How is it not OP?
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Charge times got changed before official release, timings got changed before official release. Ranges got changed before official release.
Right now, he is too fast, reaching too far, having a passive that completely removes the ability to wiggle that lasts forever(which should last at most 75 seconds).
What counterplay is there other than genrushing? The only counterplay I can think of, is the same counterplay to spirit: hoping the killer is worse at mindgaming and guessing you walked in the opposite direction the killer thinks you are.
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I feel like he will sadly be nerfed.
I honestly think he is fine as is right now, but if they do nerf him, I hope they don't make him incredibly weak or his power incredibly situational.
The ranged attack through walls is fine as is imo.
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You are not in fact in b4
Because it was nerfed before it was even announced
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It just came out needs more testing and 2nd your upset you can't suicide ? Did I read that right?
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I think it could be balanced by how difficult it is to use his power, I thought he was very OP from his description but I honestly don't think so anymore, I really think we need to wait a longer amount of time until people get used to him to see where he is, he's only been out not even 2 hours now so you cant fairly judge him either way
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I haven't played against him personally but I have played as him and I don't think it's too hard to actually dodge his power; the animation feels pretty slow and if you miss you get punished pretty hard too. I can't really help but compare him with Demo who in my opinion has everything this guy has but better. You won't be able to hit people through stuff with Demo but I find it a lot easier catching people at loops with his shred ability as people can't seem to dodge it as easy. Besides, the fact he can hit through walls is something that sounds pretty good on paper at first but is it really though? It's not like Pyramidhead knows where you are on the other side of that wall so he's going to need to be pretty good at predicting where you are to actually land that hit, especially if the animation really is slow. Pyramidhead may not need to carry people to hooks when played right but it comes at the cost of losing pop, which arguably is one of the perks run the most by killers atm. While in the meantime, Demogorgon not only makes up for the lost time by using his portals correctly, he also gets to keep his pop.
I haven't played against him though so maybe I'll end up finding his power too hard to dodge swaying my opinion on him. The PTB also just released so it's not like I've mastered him too.
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His long range attack is so easy to doge, it may as well be non-existent.
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Lol. It is extremely easy to dodge and extremely hard to use if anything it stays the same or gets some cooldown reduction etc. definitely not a nerf. I will be honest you seem like a new survivor who doesn't understand how things works like my friend saying ALL KILLERS OP NERF where good teams literally always escape lol.
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He's like the huntress, what's good is that you can cut loops. I love him
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Can you explain me how his power and abilitys work? Didnt find anything usefull so far.
Also what is this weird rotating symbol sometimes on the Health state Icon?
Sadly i am on PS4 so i cant test it out. :p
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With Rites of Judgement, Pyramid Head can create trails which cause Survivors to suffer from Torment.
Torment lets you know where they are if they step on it, making him have amazing Map Pressure potential.
He also can send Survivors to Cages, which are not like hooks, so uncaging them won't trigger DS or BT.
He also has a ranged attack which can be activated while Rites of Judgement of active, it's small but it's enough to make him very dangerous around loops.
He also can instantly Mori anyone who is tormented and is on Death hook.
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Thanks for info. How long will the trails stay?
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I don't know, I haven't tested out how long they stayed. But last I checked they were there the whole game.
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OMG nerf Clown!
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What? How would you even get that out of it? The issue is that he is fully unloopable on all current maps. If you're injured, he can damage you regardless if he truly caught up with you, as long as he aims in the right direction.
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I'm sure he will be nerfed, but his range attack is a complete joke IMO. It's so easy too dodge and it's so telegraphed the only way too be hit by it is if you messed up or if he hits you through a wall.
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Oh my god and it begins.
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You can literally see the outline of the ranged attack and have enough time to run out of the way...
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His power is definitely very hard to use, even it does seem like huntress hatchet that goes through walls. I'll list his flaws or weakness
- He can't moonwalk, go left and go right when activating the power. He can only go straight forward, meaning he can't mindgame with it. Also, very hard to aim without those movements
- His power wide is small, and he needs like 0.5 sec for the power to hit rather than instant. And you can see where the attack lands just before it hits, and you have just enough time to dodge it
- Cooldown from missed power is definitely not short. Survivors who dodged it have plenty of time to gain distance
This is from personal experience by playing both roles. Also, big map hurts him, and running in straight line also works in some case
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His ranged ability is easy to dodge from what I've seen. Piramid Head needs to predict your movement to actually hit you.
Cage can be avoided by not walking into RoT. However I've noticed that they are there for a long time. Reducing the time of their existing would help, unless he is supposed to be area control 115% killer like trapper is. Then... I guess it's somehow fine?
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He's def getting some nerfs sadly. I can understand that he's really powerful, but for keeping the secret until the dev stream and for being a big horror icon that I at least knew about before the chapter I think he deserves to be powerful.
I didn't like the idea of him at first but his power and aesthetic in game has really grown on me.
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Feel like aura reading perks like nurses calling or I'm all ears would work really well on him for this exact reason...so he knows where exactly he has to aim on the other side of a wall.
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If anything this killer should buffed tbh. The Demo shred is way better than his special attack (whatever it’s called) and he has no mobility at all. The only thing that I truly loved about him is the ability to send survivors to cages instead of hooking them, but even this sweet ability has the annoying requirement of the survivor being cursed so it isn’t really a super great ability either.
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I don’t think Nurses would be too useful as people would just stop healing when you get closer anyways. I’m all ears can be good but that only works every so 40 seconds and if they jump through a window. I think you can hear him putting his blade in the ground too so I can already imagine that red rank survivors would just hold W once they hear that.
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Well, its a small skillcap, the torment trail is relatively balanced on its own, but in combination with his ranged attack that can down people just makes it an insane combo. And yeah, its been 2 hours so I cant fully judge him, but lets compare to deathslinger on release: deathslinger was called super weak by killers and super strong by survivors. As a split player, I thought he would be incredibly strong at first due to lack of counterplay. But on this one? I played him for a few minutes with a friend and its insanely easy to get a hit around loops. Like, imagine a Freddy, except instead of his traps slowing you down, they damage you.
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the further you are the easier it is to dodge, granted, but its not the long range that worries me. Just like I am not bothered by Huntress her long range. Its the short range that I care about. And on short range, its insane. Dont deny that #########.
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We legit only got to play him today calm down
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Hes just a weaker version of the nurse and has the TR and movement speed to make up for it. If you cant predict what people are doing then he cant hit them with range.
This means tge counterplay is to brea LOS and be unpreductable like you do with nurse.
As for the trench, if possible crouch walk. If not, oh well.
One things for sure, just like bubba dont get downed near the basement. Its ggs if you do
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You're just bad. Confirmed.
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I will say, base kit mori is something I was okay with, especially if it's on death hook, but when they make it so that the killer doesn't need to even hook, it takes away a crucial step for survivors. This won't be fun to learn to play against, it'll feel like a complete mess until I get the hang of it, and even then I don't think I'll like playing against him.
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Wow, didnt saw anywhere that you could crouch over the trail, which makes it a bit better, altho the torment shouldnt last forever still.
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I think it lasts 30 secs? Can anyone confirm the actual length? It shouldnt be to long, but it also cant be to short or its worthless. Im also assuming you can only have so much of it out there before it starts disappearing?
Im guessing, we'll find out more as people play with it
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You're not meant to loop him.
This guy is made and equiped with the power to take down SWF and looping. Looping is lame and boring and I'm happy to see a killer that actually has a power to help cut that down and force a survivor to actually make a play rather then kill time and driving me to bored tears with circling the same piece of furniture.
His weakness is stealth. When you crouch his torment can't be applied to you. This killer is effectivley the anti-doctor. He has no inherent ability to track people but when he does find someone he has the ability to shut down team plays and harm looping. Although both of his method of doing so are very easy to read and avoid.
Trail can stop looping by doing a loop once with it on. By trail I mean the torment applying crack in the ground and his range is limited, slow and in a straight small lane.
He's clearly designed to make you think "Hm, better not taunt and try to loop this guy lest he cage torments me and then decides to torment mori me later"
I imagine that perks like distortion, pebble, urban evasion, spine chill, featherweight and some of tap's perks would cream this guy. Especially since one of his best powers denies BQQC. One of the best detection perks.
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Looping is part of survivor gameplay, if you cant loop, there is no reason to get out and distract the killer. Having a hard time looping a specific killer and being unable to loop are 2 massively different things. I dont mind Freddy's slows as a form of anti-loop(I do mind his teleport and his ability to fully entrap things that even a trapper cant entrap). I do mind Spirit's passive phasing, but thats because her basekit ability is simply overpowered and simply shouldnt be in the game as it is(seriously, for spirit to be balanced as a killer, you need to run 0 addons and refrain from using stridor).
Looping isnt lame, looping is the only interesting thing a survivor can do other than gens. Im 100% gonna bet that 90% of survivors will get a genrush build if his current anti-looping kit stays as strong as it is.
"force a survivor to actually make a play rather then kill time and driving me to bored tears with circling the same piece of furniture."
Like what? run into you to tank a hit to be able to go to the next pallet? There is nothing a survivor can do without windows and pallets. Looping a piece of furniture to buy time literally is making a play other than windows and pallets.
"His weakness is stealth. When you crouch his torment can't be applied to you." This isnt necessarily a problem as a concept. However, you now will have everyone running urban evasion and crouching the whole game. Like that isnt boring gameplay.
" imagine that perks like distortion, pebble, urban evasion, spine chill, featherweight and some of tap's perks would cream this guy. Especially since one of his best powers denies BQQC. One of the best detection perks."
Problem being: survivors dont know which killer they will be facing untill the game starts. BBQ isnt the best detection perk tho. Its a good one and the double bloodpoints at the end of the match make it overall more rewarding, but once you own all the perks and have plenty of addons, you have better perks. Like Corrupt Intervention, Dead Man's Switch, I'm All Ears(which is gonna make Executioner insane), Thrilling Tremors and Surveillance are all better information perks than BBQ. I'd say even Gearhead could be a better information perk. Especially since BBQ can so easily be countered with vanilla mechanics. While all previous mentioned perks cannot.
If at least solo survivors would be given a heads up on which killer they would be facing, my problems with this killer would disappear near instantly. But while optimal SWF is incredibly strong, solo survivors are getting ######### more and more every update.
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I have yet to play a game where Torment disappears. I've done a gen and still was tormented.
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If thats true they should look at that. Somewhere between 30 secs and a minute
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"Looping is part of survivor gameplay, if you cant loop, there is no reason to get out and distract the killer. Having a hard time looping a specific killer and being unable to loop are 2 massively different things"
You can loop this killer, you can't just loop him as much. You are eventually pushed off the loop if he decides to use his power and killer should have that kind of pressure in such a chase. Then he still uses up meter to do so.
You're not meant to distract this killer. You're meant to hide. Just like with doctor you're meant to not to overly rely on stealth. With PH you're not meant to overly rely on the safety of loops and pallets.
"Like what? run into you to tank a hit to be able to go to the next pallet? There is nothing a survivor can do without windows and pallets. Looping a piece of furniture to buy time literally is making a play other than windows and pallets."
Run away. You're meant to run away. Loop once, twice, tops and then try to jape the killer direction or drop a pallet and run. Bolt it. You're meant to be escaping the killer. It is a killer. They are going to kill you, that is why you are in a chase. It's boing as hell to loop, I'm not blaming survivors for looping. Looping is a side effect of empty maps which SHOULD be filled with more things survivors can interact with. But no one enjoys looping. If you enjoy looping that speaks more of how boring survivor game play overall.
I don't want to be punished with mind numbingly running around the same object for poor map design. You have options, run away, try to hide, jape, use of certain perks like sprint burst. I do agree you should have more options than you have and maybe PH should of been introduced after some more interactables were put down...hell..they should of introduce a massive map update of interactables when legion was announced in my opinion.
But looping is boring. I'm happy to see it being curtailed with breakable walls and anti-looping powers. You have a 360 camera, plot a path instead of buying time with loops. Get that killer far away from the working gen if he's chasing you. If anything that should help with ph. Since his cage...from my understanding makes you spawn on the otherside of the map to him. If you get him far away you basically cage spawn near your allies for a fast safe.
In theory.
"This isnt necessarily a problem as a concept. However, you now will have everyone running urban evasion and crouching the whole game. Like that isnt boring gameplay."
Feather Weight and urban evasion. There you go. I fixed your forever crouching problem for you while retaining most of your stealth. You got two options: hide and think about spots you can avoid the killer as they slowly close in on you. Or mindlessly make noise notification and then run around the same object for up to 3 to 4 times.
One is clearly more fun. It's the former. One has tension, the other one removes all form of tension since we all know that killer can't do anything until his blood lust kicks in and even then it rarely helps.
I respect where you're coming from with lobby reveal and to an extent I agree. A lot of killers get insane advantages because survivors have no ability to prepare their perks. But this will make SWF nightmarish since they would all comm and insta-team build to counter your killer. Same thing with a killer that can see a sruvivor.
It would suck to have a team based gen rush. Then keep running into discord and Pop over and over every time you run that build. Also it would lead to killers tunneling people with perks that they might conclude are attributing to the gen rush.
Heads up. I say gen rush just as iin...the gens are rushing out. Not as in "Oh, my god. those survivors are doing gens. STOP, you toxic ninnies"
"Problem being: survivors dont know which killer they will be facing untill the game starts. BBQ isnt the best detection perk tho. Its a good one and the double bloodpoints at the end of the match make it overall more rewarding, but once you own all the perks and have plenty of addons, you have better perks. Like Corrupt Intervention, Dead Man's Switch, I'm All Ears(which is gonna make Executioner insane), Thrilling Tremors and Surveillance are all better information perks than BBQ. I'd say even Gearhead could be a better information perk. Especially since BBQ can so easily be countered with vanilla mechanics. While all previous mentioned perks cannot."
Most of those aren't detection perks. I'm all Ears is straight up the best detection perk there is...at chasing. But it's probably really the only chase orientated detection perk. It will definately be insane on PH. I agree but it's good on everyone, really. Gear head is poo poo, like utterly. BBQ may be counterable but most of the time most survivors will not hide when someone is hooked and even if they do it's rare that they all hide. If even one is revealed it's doingi ts job very well for something killers got to do to win the game.
Well, used to. Before the cage.
Good. It makes survivors want to mix up builds and variables more. One of the funnest thing this game has going for it is the perk builds you can come up with from the insane to the totally silly. We all got to roll with what we hope will be best before drop in on either side.
Killer can invest in injury perks and find that everyone has resillience and he's actually helping the gen rush. That's DBD, baby. That's DBD. A survivor can drop in with team based perks and get a PH.
It's annoying and reminds me of Xcom but I don't see it changing.
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In fairness I cant play pc so I'm judging off footage I've seen so far and I've seen both sides doing well and struggling. PH is VERY strong at hooks and saves as there's pretty much a guarenteed hit on one survivor at the very least but I've also seen survivors react very well to dodging his special so yeah I'd still stick with the mentality that it's too early to properly judge.
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I mean, swiping generalizations never convinced the minds of anyone who really mattered. Nerfs are not needed here. Through skill of foresight and patching, it's super 3asy to avoid PHs attacks and torment. Just be mindful of where he was prior to chasing you
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"You can loop the killer, you cant loop him as much"
I massively disagree with this. If the killer has any gamesense, you cant loop him at all. The cooldowns and charge times are too small to make any looping a reality. Especially since I'm All Ears is probably gonna be one of the strongest, if not the strongest perk to run on PH. It's gonna be essentially why T&L walls are gonna be dead tiles against a Billy because there is a 99.9% chance of him running Bamboozle. I'm not saying PH's kit is necessarily overpowered, but with the current times, it is. Essentially everything is a deadzone in theory. I mean, lets take a nurse, in theory, you cant use pallets against her, however, if you time things correctly and mindgame properly, you still could use pallets against her. Even against a huntress, you could drop a pallet before she is able to get an angle on you to increase distance. Even against a Freddy you could use a pallet in your favor. Against PH tho, the only way I see pallets working is dropping them before he chases you and vault those pallets before he is in range to create distance. Which is extremely impactful on the game in general as most pallets arent that strong. Right now, PH's full potential isnt reached yet, and counterplay is little to none due to him just having been released on the PTB. So like all killers on release, ofcouse he is gonna be extremely strong untill counterplay has been developed, but at least during release you know there is a 90% chance of you facing PH and you can counterbuild him specifically. My problem lies after the release hype has died down, he'll be even stronger, especially considering he both has a ranged attack, and still has 115% movementspeed.
"you're eventually pushed off the loop if he decides to use his power and killer should have that kind of pressure"
I agree, but Trapper has that ability by placing or faking a trap. Billy and Bubba have the ability to quickly destroy the pallet. Let alone that its gonna be fairly easy to get people tormented in most looping scenario's.
"run away"
thats the problem, there is nowhere to run to. And yeah, some loops are incredibly boring. At least T&L walls have tons of interaction, which is why I hate bamboozle billy, because its literally the only structure that is fun to mindgame at. It can be incredibly rewarding if a killer mindgames better than a survivor there and its incredibly rewarding if you outplay a killer there. Considering the only way to truly escape a killer is to have a pallet that literally forces the killer to take a massive detour, looping boring safe structures is literally the only way to force a killer to give up. I mean, a killer shouldnt waste 1 minute of his time chasing a survivor when he could down another survivor in the same time, so looping is a way for a survivor to get a killer to give up the chase and go after someone else. It's pretty much the only way.
"try to hide"
This would be nice, if there actually was a good way to hide. In F13, you at least could hide under a bed or in a closet and it would take enough time to get out and run away without 1 million scratchmarks following you. The reason to hide is so you have an oppertunity to run. In DBD, this isnt an option. The time it takes a killer to check an empty locker is just barely enough to go for a speedy escape, letting the killer know exactly where you were, leaving behind scratchmarks, letting the killer know exactly where you went. So if you are in a chase, there is no way you can hide from a killer, even if you gained some distance.
"Im happy to see it being curtailed with breakable walls and anti-looping powers"
I agree, but in the current gamestate, its simply too overpowered to implement, I am not against giving a free hit if a survivor does something what they shouldnt do, and im all for having a punishment for survivors looping 1 structure for too long, but in that case, why not simply apply deep wounds when a survivor is already injured? Why not block windows instead that would force a survivor to run away? Why a long range attack that in most maps is essentially a free hit? I have the same issue with huntress, because the only real counters to her ability are very long distance or walls, yet even in walls she can charge a hatchet fast enough to make vaults useless. If huntress had a slight larger charge requirement for her to throw an axe, then at least you could go to the only structure that would be a counter to her ability. Any other structure and you're #########. Now the same applies to PH, but even worse, as he is just as fast, if not faster, and has a wider hitbox. As for PH's Cage, my biggest issue is that any hook related perks do not apply. So I do see a lot of camping PH's coming with no way to counter it. Camping is already toxic AF towards the survivor, now all im gonna see is russians using the iridescent addon if they are forced to hook and otherwise camping the cage to fully counter BT. And since they can also counter DS, and they dont care about being depipped(they would use ebony mori if they could, which countered DS already, now you have it even worse by not even needing ebony mori). So all I see is enabling massive toxicity with no way to counter it. At least on other killers, except Freddy, you could use BT to counter campers. The bonusses that PH brings to the table dont even come close to the downsides that he brings with him. There are too many problems with his powers. Huntress with Irihead used to be the go-to russian camping tunneler, and at least she has 110% movementspeed.
""This isnt necessarily a problem as a concept. However, you now will have everyone running urban evasion and crouching the whole game. Like that isnt boring gameplay." Feather Weight and urban evasion. There you go. I fixed your forever crouching problem for you while retaining most of your stealth. You got two options: hide and think about spots you can avoid the killer as they slowly close in on you. Or mindlessly make noise notification and then run around the same object for up to 3 to 4 times."
I already mentioned Urban Evasion. As for feather weight, I am assuming you either mean Lightweight or Quick and Quiet, but I dont really see either of them being a legitimate counter. In my opinion, there need to be vanilla counters to a killer's basekit. Perks should be enhancements to countering a killer, but not a requirement. There arent any realistic counters to PH other than genrushing. So either a lot of killers are gonna complain they are being genrushed, or survivors are gonna complain that there is no way to extend a chase. I already have my build ready for when PH gets released(and I am saving up BP's to get Mason's perk, because now there finally is a perk that allows to pick yourself up multiple times without being Broken, let alone a perk to finally counter Pop). Not having any vanilla counter(or having a terrible one, looking at you Freddy alarmclocks that spawn all the way across the map), can be a massive issue for a killer. The only upside about PH is his lack of map pressure, but considering his 1v1 is so incredibly strong, he can easily continue genpatrol.
"A lot of killers get insane advantages because survivors have no ability to prepare their perks. But this will make SWF nightmarish since they would all comm and insta-team build to counter your killer. Same thing with a killer that can see a sruvivor."
And I agree, which is why I'd suggest that only happening to Solo Survivors. Perhaps first a pre-game chat, then a short 20 second window without chatting possibilities to quickly adjust your perks/offering and solo survivors get to see the killer, while the killer gets to see who are premade and who is not(aka seeing people who know who the killer is and who dont). Perhaps even giving the average time it took for a match to finish while they were premade, to be able to recognise an optimal SWF genrushing team and just an SWF who are playing together to chill. I mean, either that, or add in vanilla counters. No perks, addons or offerings included. Those should always remain secret untill after everything is locked in.
And yeah, a gen rush as defined by survivors tend to be working on a gen together, while a genrush by killer mains is basically any time more than 1 generator gets popped in a single chase, regardless if the chase lasted 5 minutes to begin with and only had 2 gens popped(i mean seriously, how is 2 gens in 5 minutes a genrush?)
Well, kinda, they give information on where survivors would be or where they wouldnt be. Having information on where a survivor isnt is just as useful as having information on where a survivor is. Just because they dont give an aura of the survivors doesnt mean its not a detection perk. And gearhead isnt as bad as many people claim it to be. As long as a generator is being worked on, after a skill check, it will remain yellow. Its essentially Surveillance without having to kick the gen first and it will remain yellow longer. The only downside is place a basic attack 2 times. So yeah, on some killers its quite ######### and surveillance or discordance is simply a better option due to not requiring 2 basic attacks. However, that doesnt mean its garbage.
I am assuming you said Good for solo survivors getting shittier every update? No variety will make solo survivors better. Having a killer be strong against SWF isnt a problem, having a killer being strong against solo survivor is.
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Yeah, the thing is guaranteed hits in places where there shouldnt be one. Having a guaranteed hit because a survivor greeds for a pallet is fine, having a guaranteed hit when vaulting through a window is fine, having a guaranteed hit through a wall that is easy to predict in the average game? Not really fine.
PH is easier to dodge at very high skill, but the average skilled survivor, its just a free hit.
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Aren't that the only counters to top tier killers rn? That's why they're considered good. If you don't want to go against spirit every match you should accept powerful killers.
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Mindgaming? No. You can counter a billy by using a tree to turn. A billy cant use a tree to turn. You can counter a huntress long distance by side stepping and while she is hard to counter up close(impossible if you're forced to vault), you at least can choose to early drop a pallet to gain distance.
Spirit's problem is that even without addons, she is extremely strong. I dont want killers that match spirit and freddy in being as easier to play than survivors. Killers are supposed to be harder to play than survivors. If a killer is easier to play than survivor, then they should be able to recieve damage from survivors.
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