How are keys fair?
Seriously..
I just had a match where I was doing pretty okay as killer, and they had Plunderers so they ended up getting a key. One gen left, one person dead..
I was chasing them, I see one of them go through the hatch and the other one teabagging. I've never been so pissed off at a game before, but yikes.
The other person died because of it too, because I am not showing mercy for that stuff... I feel bad but like.. yikes. :/
I was doing well, and an item that takes a simple m1 click cost me a pip (trying to get the achievement, otherwise I could care less about ranks).
Things like this just frustrate me.
And before you say, "ENTiTleD KiLLer Main" (because I know SOMEBODY will), I main survivor mostly, but I play both sides. Moris suck too, and they need to change that as well, but that's not the point of THIS post..
But yeah, this is just me complaining. You don't have to agree, I'm just salty after that match..
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I feel like those survivors would be the ones saying "ENTiTleD KiLLer Main" lol
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I guess. I don't even play killer that much, but when I do it's just really frustrating (due to matchmaking and stuff) because I get sweaty survivors (which isn't bad, you play how you want to play). HOWEVER, when said sweaty survivors teabag, click, etc because they know I'm lower rank than them really just puts me in a bad mood,,
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Key will disappear when it was drop or carrier died.
And killers can use mori after 4 hooks. (not first hook mori)
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They're not. Just like with toolboxes, flashlights, and medkits, it's very likely that changes (probably nerfs) will be coming to them.
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theyre not
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Yeah, gladly.
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Moris and keys are both op, i dont think anyone will defend them
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Agree :)
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They aren't.
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Exactly, no one will defend them, I hate using both keys and moris and the rift forced us to use keys, hopefully we never get stuff like that ever again
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Keys dont just disappear. If the carrier dies, unless that person was using an addon that allows them to keep the item when they die, the key remaings on the floor infront of the hook. The survivor teammates can then pick up the key from there.
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Keys and moris need a major fix. They both extremely damage the games health and enjoyment
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Key donโt have to be fair though? You have plenty of stuff at your hand as killer thatโs unfair but it will get defended.
i donโt see keys that often to be honest. Not as much as moris at the least. And if there is a key, it will not always be used, Morris on the other hand will always get used (not that for the last survivor). But there is more: is face camping bubba fair? Is tunneling fair? Etc. No! But killer mains will defend it with โthe devs said its valid strategyโ - so are keys and Moris.
and keys are the least unfair in these examples.
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This is just my opinion, but you can't find moris on chests, you can find keys.
Had a game yesterday, killed 1 survivor, rest 3 gen themselves, had no progress on any gen, all of the rest of the survivors were on death hook, but they found a key and all 3 escaped.
That is fair? Not at all.
I get that there are things to "counter" keys like franklin's but no one is going to waste a perk slot for that especially when most killers need slowdown perks or tracking perks.
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Everything you mentioned has already been nerfed and will very likely not be nerfed further, because they're not a problem anymore and they're not even remotely in the same league as keys.
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Here's my thoughts on this issue . . .
The issue with moris (to me) is the tunneling that almost always accompanies them. Moris need to require that another person be hooked between the mori'ed survivor's hook and mori kill. In other words, if the mori allows the killer to kill a survivor who has been hooked and you get hooked, then the killer would have to hook someone else before he can mori you. That would at least prevent you from being tunneled unless you are farming or deliberately trying to get the killer's attention.
The issue with keys (to me) is killers feeling like it's unfair and/or solo survivors getting screwed by their fellow survivors abandoning them. To fix that, I would recommend that keys ONLY work when one survivor remains alive and the rest are gone (beit dead or escaped). Then, the killer could choose to patrol gates and hatch or not.
Beyond that, we could change it so that you can't bring in a key, but you can find them in chests and they are lost when the match ends. That way the odds of seeing them would be lower and you wouldn't get tunneled for entering with one. I'd be okay with that additional change if we could get a minimum distance between exit gates that is actually doable for a survivor to escape. With so many invisible, terror radius-less, teleporting, trapping killers, escaping EGC is rough, but if the gates had to always be at least a reasonable distance apart, I could see it being more fair. The killers would still have the advantage in that situation especially if they have traps or teleports, but it would maybe balance it out a bit.
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I didnโt make a direct comparison between Moris and keys.
take Camping and tunneling: no need of an addon or offering and every killer can do that every match. And this is way more unfair than a key. But it is still considered a valid strategy by devs and thus get defended.
not everything needs to be fair. You had a good match, many hooks and a kill. 3 genning doesnโt mean you should get all kills. Chests donโt always contain keys. They were lucky (and had probably plunderers or were extremely lucky).
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agree with moris aswell but they are cool looking
hatch fix only 1 surviver gets to escape
moris removes 2 gens
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if i see a key i just tunnel :) happens ^^ yesterday i had a match the guy had a broken key only but it happens xD
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i donโt always genrush though? And I am not the best looper. Guess what happens in almost all games: I get to be the one tunneled to death first. But I guess that is somehow fair?
the game is asymmetrical und thus unfair in nature. Not all things need to get changed because they feel unfair. There is no need for tunneling and camping here? Okay but why Moris then? They are not the equivalent of keys for killer either. But they all are/can be unfair.
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Franklins doesnt even really counter keys. A survivor can just pick it back up when they need it. Its a mild inconvenience, not a counter.
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But that was my whole point. There is plenty of unfair mechanics ON BOTH SIDES.
you just talk about every unfair survivor mechanic but you are saying it is totally okay to Tunnel me and that is not unfair??
key are unfair. But that is okay, since many things are unfair. That was my point, I did not say every unfair mechanic needs reworking. But if you want to rework unfair survivor mechanics you have to look at the other side too.
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It's not even that common to have that happen. Hell , even 1 survivor escaping using a key is rare , from my personal experience.
Don't think they devs would touch it unless it happen in most games , which it does not.
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No plunders just luck, and while I probably didn't deserved to kill all I needed to because of my last adept.
I don't defend camping, I believe the only reason to camp is if all gens are done and you have nowhere to go, tunneling on the other hand I try not to unless OoO.
Both keys and moris should be reworked a little, both are unfair, keys have an underrated addon that let's you see the killer, so mindgaming is out of the question (if used only) moris aren't fun at least for me, I only use moris when "by your hand kill a survivor with X killer" and even then I usually do it on death hook or again OoO.
Both are unhealthy to the game imo
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True that it doesn't even counter it, just slows down the chance of usage.
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its really easy to avoid a flashlight tho whenever i get fhalshlight on me and the surviver succesfully do it i give them credit
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A small rework is reasonable and I fully agree with that adept achievement, keys shouldnโt prevent them every time.
but only because you donโt use the unfair killer mechanics doesnโt mean they are more okay than keys. There are plenty of survivors not using keys, you will always run into some that do. Which is totally okay and valid.
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Yup lol flashlights are really easy to avoid, good thing that they are not like before.
I agree with both things you mentioned, I just want them both reworked, like maybe a certain amount of hooks not just 1 hook and next you are dead and for keys a timer to open the hatch or something like that.
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Inward talking about killer mechanics, not killers
but I am surprised that you only list killers that are considered weak, but strong killers are obviously balanced
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No. I never said that. You are trying to put words in my mouth.
i try to see both sides. You only mentioned survivor nerf! Killer buff!
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If you go back....he never said the word buff at all
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๐ ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐ธ๐ฒ๐๐ ๐ป๐ฒ๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐ณ๐ถ๐ ๐ฒ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐น๐, ๐๐ต๐ฒ๐ ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ฒ๐ ๐๐ฟ๐ฒ๐บ๐ฒ๐น๐ ๐ฏ๐ฎ๐ฑ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ด๐ฎ๐บ๐ฒ๐ ๐ต๐ฒ๐ฎ๐น๐๐ต ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐ฝ๐น๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ฒ๐ป๐ท๐ผ๐๐บ๐ฒ๐ป๐
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๐ ๐ผ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐ธ๐ฒ๐๐ ๐ป๐ฒ๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐ณ๐ถ๐ ๐ฒ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐น๐, ๐๐ต๐ฒ๐ ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ฒ๐ ๐๐ฟ๐ฒ๐บ๐ฒ๐น๐ ๐ฏ๐ฎ๐ฑ ๐ณ๐ผ๐ฟ ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐ด๐ฎ๐บ๐ฒ๐ ๐ต๐ฒ๐ฎ๐น๐๐ต ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐ฝ๐น๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ ๐ฒ๐ป๐ท๐ผ๐๐บ๐ฒ๐ป๐
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Thatโs true! I am sorry for interpreting it that way, maybe he meant to nerf Clown :)
but he did mention that Moris need rework too, I gotta give him that.
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If someone did, they'd have to be REALLY biased to one side lol.
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Moris are OK
But keys really need a rework
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everytime i play solo i either take a key or use plunderer because 7/10 times i get imbeciles for teammates so yeah i think its pretty fair
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Keys will be fine if only the person with the key is allowed to escape with the hatch.
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I understand why you would say that. Mori's piss off survivors and keys piss off killers. BUT if you remove these then you reduce the game to even more repetitiveness.
Repetitiveness: Do gens, open gate or jump through open hatch. Killer...hook all survivors until dead (2 hooks each)...close hatch.
The keys and Mori's interrupt the repetitive dynamic of the game and force the players to play a little differently. Hexes also do that to a degree. There is value to these items even though it is not fun to be on the receiving end of them at times.
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Moris can be fun to bring as a scare tactic and not use. Makes people play different.
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As much as killers sit on 3 gens like a hen on her 3 eggs, keys should be something that spawns on every map.
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Tunneling is fair, but that doesn't mean it's fun. And there technically is a penalty for camping, because a smart group will just do the objective while someone is on hook.
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Unpopular opinion but i think that both keys and moris are fine for what they are, and in my eyes that would be handicap tools, both are table turners and work just as intended. Moris give you easy pressure and keys grant you a free escape. The only change that i would make is that they shouldnt be available on highers ranks, because lets be real if you rely on keys and moris to win on highers ranks you dont really deserve to be on them.
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Yeah, thatโs why I mentioned them. All three of those items or their add-ons were problematic and got nerfed, so itโs likely that keys (an item that a lot of Killers hate) will get nerfed in the future. Did you think I was trying to say that those three items are still problematic?
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I think they were just confused by your wording. :0
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I played 222 games as solo survivor, and i run plunderers instinct. Keys i found were used in only 20 of those games. Moris were used in 22 of them. So each happened in 10% of the games or less. While it might bring inbalance, i dont think it is much of a problem, since in 90%+ of the games they are no issue.
Moris are worse, because of their potential to create an imbalance early in the game. Even the one-kill-mori creates this imbalance, leading to a most likly win for the killer. On the other hand, keys are usually a last resort item. In most of the cases, you open a hatch the killer had closed and you still escape. And i think such a "hope"-mechanic is needed, not only because of a single survivor might hide for a long time trying to fix gens that constantly get kicked down again, but also so there is a reason not to just run to the killer and suicide when the first teammate is dead. 2 Minute games are not more fun than 2hour ones.
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Yes, that's what I had taken from your wording. My bad if I misunderstood.
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