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A fair way to use moris? [Discussion!]
We're all no stranger to the on-going discussion about moris and how they're used in game. For some, it seems unfair and unbalanced, while for others, it adds more of a thrill and challenge, and can even help in certain situations!
I'll give an example on how I use them to invoke a discussion about this; I only primarily use mori's if I suspect that a game is going to be significantly more challenging than usual and that I don't feel confident or energized enough to push myself. Typically, I use it if a survivor has been giving me a hard time and that they're a lot stronger compared to the rest of the team too. When I do this, I usually only bring an ivory, but sometimes I feel a little sadistic too and I bring an ebony for fun, or maybe even a cypress if I feel confident in hunting down that last survivor during end-game.
Now, when it comes to me using ebonies, I wait until at least 2-3 people are on death hook, or that the game progression really starts to speed up and get difficult before I start mori-ing others, and that the game is more closer towards the end, just to give people a chance to play the game. I'm not in favor of cutting other's fun short for the sake of my own, and I like having longer games! Chases are fun.
Thought-wise, I feel like, while mori's can be annoying to some, can be used quite reasonably, and that they do more than just "remove a survivor from a match on a whim". I don't carry them on me all the time, though, since I use them often for situational purposes, so I don't know the perspective of someone who consistently uses them. I don't necessarily see them as OP either, but that may just be me because I don't use them to their fullest all the time either. ^^'
So what do you think? Is this a fair way to use moris? Do you think things need to be changed? Feel free to discuss it below, I'm genuinely interested in the conversation.
As a side note, please do not bring keys into this! I don't want a survivor vs killer flame war starting in this thread. Save that for another topic! x)
Comments
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The entire purpose of moris was to implement a cool killing animation for each killer into the game. The purpose of moris was not to give you an advantage. Now that we have perks like Rancor and Devour Hope, I don't see a purpose for moris in the game. And if we delete moris, then killer rank will be more accurate since some killers won't be boosted by overpowered offerings. Moris are annoying, because they unfairly rob you of your chances to escape. There are lots of times I would've escaped a trial if not for a killer's Ebony Mori. If Mori offerings were to stay in the game, then they should only let you kill people on death hook to keep the imbalance to a minimum.
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I mean you can set your own personal rules and restrictions when it comes to using moris, I personally just use them as soon as I can sometimes. Other times I play around and don't kill anyone until the late game.
I don't really think that being fair should be a concern for the killer.
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I view it as more of a fun thing I do very rarely. Ive found that in terms of winning games it doesnt do you any favors because survivors know when you have it and will get gens done as quickly as possible.
As far as when I use it in match that completely depends on the match. I had one game where the survivors were doing very very poorly, so i saved it for death hooks. Another match the survivors rushed the gens very quickly so a poor nea got shocked to death as I was carrying her to her 2nd hook.
I think mori offerings shpuld be done away with entirely and twice per game the killer can mori a survivor on death hook as just part of the base game.
Similarly, i think Keys should be removed from chests (or made so rare that its like winning the lottery), purple keys only allow the person using it to leave and pink everyone
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I feel moris are fine. Just as keys and as much as I hate it, DS. The devs have stated these things are all fine and until they say otherwise we have to deal with it.
As for fair rules of moris. All moris are fair seeing as how survivors are free to bring any and everything to a match. The only mori I feel survivors CANNOT whine about is Devour Hope. Seeing as you need to get 5 stacks to mori someone, it discourages camping, it's a hex perk, and you get a notification that it's on the map at 3 stacks. If the killer gets those 5 stacks they deserve that mori because the survivors failed to counter it.
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I agree with you on the intention of moris, though I'm still completely unsure as to whether if it's really the only purpose, as there's 3 levels of mori's to begin with! (cypress, ivory, ebony, they each have different functions).
However, what I don't exactly agree with is killer rank boosting. I doubt moris have that much of an effect due to them giving a slight "death" penalty. You aren't exactly sacrificing a survivor, but rather killing them instead, similar to letting a player bleed out. There's a death score, but sacrifices are more valuable and are rewarded more. From what I've seen from testing a 4k ebony mori game, you really only get up to a "brutal killer" status if you use the mori early. I don't think this applies to ivories or cypresses much due to the fact that it's only 1 survivor death, the rest of your score is based on player time. BUT, that's just me! ^^
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If I take one in, I usually only use it if they start popping gens fast, or they're toxic.
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They're fair as they are.
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They are obviously not fair as they are, I'm tired of these games too short because of this killrush. :)
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I doubt we have anyone who's rank gets boosted because they use moris. Typically, using moris is going to hinder your emblems. Not saying moris are balanced or anything...just that those who use them are much more likely to safety pip when they win.
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I don't think it is fair use a mori, as eliminating a survivor, even just one will mostly likely lead the survivors to losing, if the killer is good. I usually don't use a mori unless I have a daily. I usually only mori on the last hook.
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Did you actually just say that moris aren't fair because they lead to a survivor loss?
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Rancor let's you kill one person at the very end of the match. And Devour Hope is pretty difficult to pull off without it being cancelled. So it's not really a substitute for a Mori that can completely change the flow of the game. If you are coming from a perspective of it's a just a way to see the killing animation,you have to remember not every person is going to have every perk on every killer. I really don't see them that often to make a difference. The Ebony is the only one I'd argue gives you a real advantage. And you don't exactly have the ability to use them every single match.
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That would make them worthless and you ate not entitled to escape or talk about killer ranks when survivors live off of comms to boost themselves into higher ranks.
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Green Moris are fine as is, the one extra kill is a decent buff but not completely game changing.
Ebony Moris are overpowered, I can easily tell the difference in results when I'm using an Ebony Mori versus other offerings. Getting two or three early kills is brutal. I don't have an issue with Moris in principle but this particular one ought to be toned down a notch.
Personally I think my favorite idea for the Ebony Mori at the moment is it lets you mori one survivor that you've hooked once and mori any survivor you've hooked twice. So it's kind of like a slight buff on the Green Mori, you get that one early kill and then after that you get two-hook moris on everybody else that were already on death hook. Those extra death hook moris would save you a small amount of time carrying the person to the hook and let you avoid Decisive Strike and flashlight saves but otherwise are just cosmetic. (It's a little like Pyramid Head's built in mini-mori, only with the slower full mori animations that come with the offering.)
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I mean yeah, when its almost a guaranteed lost after that, its pretty unfair.
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I disagree. The animations can be cool and all but the longer they take the worse they are.
The entire point of bringing in a Mori is to be able to eliminate survivors faster. If it becomes weaker or only for an animation (that is a debilitation mind you) then it'll be pointless to use them. Worthless 90% of the time.
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Yes, it's called a "consequence for screwing up".
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I think you let survivor dictate how fast you use them. If you're popping gens left and right, I'll use a Mori pretty fast. But once the gen speeds slow down, I'll hook people multiple times before using the mori. If I'm getting downs fast, I won't use the Mori until their third hook, if then. Though sometimes I will play a tad unfair if I meet a survivor who was toxic toward me in a previous game, and I happen to remember them.
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They can only nerf moris if they nerf keys too. Pick your poison.
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They should nerf both! This isn't a poison. I don't think most survivors go into games and think "Let's bring a key!" Just like most killers don't think "Well, let me bring my Ebony Mori." into most games. Both are a bit too strong, and a bit too common for that matter.
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I mean, the same could be said for opening an exit gate.
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Yeah but its not my fault when I run the killer for quite a while just to get teammates who DC, kill themselves on hook, or don't do gens. Like a mori cuts off about half the time a survivor will be in game for, last time I checked my game wasn't ended that prematurely because of a key.
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??? Keys literally cut the amount of gens that need to be done by 2. I definitely get SWF groups that swap to a map and a key at 6 seconds before the game starts, and then they offer springwood / haddo or some other busted map.
That means to win and pip you need to 3-4k before 3 gens are done? And at high ranks if you are not playing an S tier killer your first hook will usually cost you the first gen. So you get 2 gens to get a 3k which pretty much means your only option is going to be to slug/tunnel/camp hardcore into the usual BT/DS/Unbreakable combos.
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Lets not turn this into a keys vs moris thing, please. I'm trying to keep this thread true to its original topic!
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No they don't? The hatch spawns based on the amount of survivors + 1. The time the hatch spawns has no connection to keys, so your point is invalid.
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Not your "fault" if the survivor the killer is currently chasing is a very good looper either, but you still benefit from it. Why is it OK for you to benefit from your team's skills, but never be hindered by their failures?
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How do you think that keys and moris are fine?
A huge problem with moris is that survivors can't properly prepare for them.Killers however can prepare themselfs if they see a key user in the lobby.Moris would be a lot more balanced if survivors could prepare for it before the match starts.
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I never said that you shouldn't be hindered by your teammates, its just that when using a mori your teammates are gonna be your biggest enemy. Most the time a killer uses a mori its on one of my teammates not me, but this still massively punishes me even though I couldn't realistically do much about.
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But why should an offering be able to have such a big impact on the game like ebony moris do?
I think that ultra rare addons/offerings that are just a straight up buff for the person using it is poor design.They should always either change your playstyle or have some kind of risk-reward situation.
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I have zero issues with the Cypress Mori. If the last survivor is down and the killer is on top of them, the Survivor is basically dead. Mori or no Mori. I personally think that Ivory and Ebony Mori's should only be useable on Survivors who will die the next time they get hooked. They'll still provide a small benefit via bypassing DS, ignoring Flashlights, Sabo, Pallet saves, the time it takes to transport the Survivor, and will save a hook... but not cheat a survivor out of one of their "lives".
Concerning Keys since those two topics are always talked about together... Keys should be nerfed via nerfing the hatch spawn time. Instead of it spawning when the amount of remaining survivors + remaining gens equals 4, make it only 3 with an override to always spawn if only 1 survivor is left. The fact that the Survivors can get all gens done and have all 4 conga line out the hatch, denying the Killer one last stand during EGC is just beyond dumb. I'd also like it if the key bearer gets sacrificed then the entity eats both them and their key so someone else can't find it on the ground and use it.
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And as I said before, the point of moris is to show off the cool killing animation and not to give you an advantage. If you want to see the killing animation, bring a mori. Otherwise the ability to kill survivors on their second hook is way too strong. We are not entitled to escape, but you are not entitled to kill. If you need to use a mori to get kills, then you are bad and you need to play better.
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I personally hate both of them. I'm only saying they are "fine" because the devs have no rules against them.
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I don't have a problem with a mori in general, I have a problem with the dirtbags who get you into a chase within 30 seconds, down and hook, then tunnel you off that hook to mori you. I get at best 8k blood points, a depip, and a 1 minute game. There is absolutely nothing on survivor side that can ruin a killer's experience as much as a first hook mori can ruin a survivor's, because there is nothing a survivor can do that ends the match unless it's basically over anyway.
My opinion: death hook only, not because first hook mori isn't sometimes justified but because there are some killers who will abuse it
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The only good change I've seen is to make it so everyone must be hooked at least once before you can Mori. That prevents immediate tunneling to death (something I disagree with) while also keeping the Mori relatively strong and not gimped like Nurse.
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Ah ok,you're only saying that they are "fine" because using them isn't against the rules,right?
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si
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And what I'm saying is that mori's shouldn't be strong. The only point of them should be to see the cool animation. If you don't want to see the animation then don't bring them in. Using a mori shouldn't be a viable strategy.
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Because they're rarely used, come with awesome animations, and put the "horror" back in this horror game.
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Saying things are ok because they aren't used too often doesn't really make sense.
I don't see iridescent head + infantry belt and tombstone piece + j. myers memorial too often.Does that make them ok?No it doesn't.
Same thing with old BNP or insta-heals
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Well, I said two other things about moris and why I think they're fine as they are. Can you address the other two?
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You can't say anything about the moris animation,that's obvious.Those animations say nothing about the actual balance of moris.
To the other thing you said:
That is purely anecdotal reasoning and doesn't justify the way moris currently work.
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Moris give survivors less time and opportunities to survive games. I don't think they are fair at all really. They are just a quick flashy way to end games to me.
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I could only ever see this is the game was balanced. Then yeah that would be fine for me.
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Thing is,the game already is in a much more balanced state than it was before.And currently there's pretty much nothing stronger than an ebony mori in my opinion
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A fair way to use moris: just don't tunnel mori people.
That's it.
That's my biggest irritation with the whole mori situation. The idea that a Killer can eliminate someone from a match before they even get to touch a single objective because of bad spawn RNG and a tunnel-hungry killer.
It's sad when a QoL adjustment is as simple as "don't be a dick" and so many cannot manage it.
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I don't know about that. If they wanted it to be simply a flashy way of killing a survivor, then they wouldn't have made it so that you could instantly kill a survivor on first down like its first iteration.
I think mories are like a lot of the other "busted" things in this game. Something that someone thought would be cool... that it. No real thought put into it other than a "wow" factor.
I don't think even deleting mories would show more accurate ranking for killers as ranking doesn't show skill in the first place. It's easy to rank up as a survivor and it's easy to kill boosted survivors. Boosted survivors feed and create boosted killers either by out right dying or by sabotaging their team.
Not that I don't agree that mories are OP. They are, and looking at Pyramid head's "mini mori" makes think that maybe they should make it like that.
Speed up Mori animations, but make them on death hook so you do get some benefit from it.
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This is factually wrong.
When it was introduced the Ebony Mori COULD KILL WITH NO REQUIREMENTS.
This means that the Ebony Mori was made to be a power trip offering rather then a cosmetic one like the Cypress Mori.
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Use only when survivor is on death hook and you basically make it to the hook. It's fair and it gives them a chance to use DS/Boil Over/get saved by a flashlight if they have it. That way when we get mori'd it feels actually earned and not cheap asf. Honestly if BHVR changed it to where it only worked when a survivor who would be instantly sacrificed on hook can be mori'd instead I'm cool with it.
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To you but that's not their function your opinion doesn't override what they are ment for.
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No Thats wsy to weak
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