http://dbd.game/killswitch
was looping intended from the start
here is my question was looping intended from the start when the creator create this game or the purpose of the survivor was to escape the killer in the trial so they can focus on gen after escaping the killer sight because right now every time i play its always the same pattern start a chase get loop a bit down the survivor repeat on the next survivor do that 12 time per trial and you have your game experience when you look at it like that the game is not really fun and after a while people get bored of doing the same thing each game because every tiles are played the same. Anyway if looping was intended from the start if i knew i would never have get the game but because i put money in it i still play it from time to time but i think its the game i regret to buy the more and i have bought no man sky XD
Comments
-
I dunno when you bought the game, but the basic gameplay loop (...such as it is, lol) has been this way for years. It should not come as a surprise.
2 -
Running from the killer and trying not to get hit was always intended, yes.
18 -
Your objective is to escape, so yes. Probably not as optimal as it currently is though.
1 -
no, game was meant to be hide and seek. If you watch old trailers they never show actual looping, rather random pallet dropping while killer chases you.
13 -
I bought the game when freddy came out and looping was thing back then afyer i did not touch it until legion came out. I agree escaping the killer is the purpose of the survivor but looping is not trying to escape the killer its only trying to waste the killer time that how i see it personally i dont see what is fun when you run in circle for x amount of time then you repeat the process on the next tiles
1 -
I feel like I can safely say that pallet looping was never really intended at first since when you're attempting to create a horror game you don't usually picture running in circles from a killer around a pile of garbage only to bonk them on their head with a piece of wood when they finally catch up. Since then though the game has been balanced around it so there's definitely nothing wrong with it now as it is a widely utilized game mechanic.
9 -
Not directly, the devs had obviously no clue how powerful optimal looping is back then. But it's established now, devs are aware of this mechanic and are TRYING to balance around it (for example reworking maps).
11 -
No, it wasn't. In fact, way back when, it was considered an exploit. However, there was no way to completely get rid of it without messing up a bunch of other stuff, so now it's taken into account when it comes to balancing the game.
Source: I've been here since launch.
14 -
A lot of killer's feel like looping was never intended to be a thing. But than again looping is the reason why I am a retired Nurse main and a Spirit main. I hate dealing with looping because there is nothing interesting about it and some killer's can't depend on their power to deal with looping, most loops survivor's will have the advantage in the loop simply because The Red Stain exist. Nurse and Spirit force survivor's to resort to different tactics instead of looping and some survivors want them nerfed because of that. Imo I feel that looping shouldn't be a thing because it gets redundant that almost whole killer roaster is affected by looping. Imo I would just get rid of the red stain, but that is my survivor bias speaking because I have a lot of fun guessing which way to go when it comes to Spirit or a killer that has Dark Devotion
4 -
When I first bought this game back in November 2017, I intended to buy it to enjoy that 'hide and seek' genre but from a horrifying killer to make it more terrifying and indeed it was. Like most beginners, I didn't understand the perks I was using, what ranking was or even what the blood web's purpose was. I really enjoyed playing immersed yet being scared at the same time, I didn't know what looping was either.
Time passed while I played survivor (I played killer regularly too) and I noticed I was getting less scared of the heartbeat and the killer chasing me. I began watching a lot of dead by daylight content creators on YouTube (who were less popular at the time) who taught me how to loop, flashlight save and 360. It's been 2-3 years since I started playing and I've had my ups and downs with this game but overall I've improved and I will continue to improve on this game while I can.
I'm getting off topic, the point is I've evolved with this game so much that I originally bought it for the hide and seek genre to the point where I'm constantly looping killers around and no longer being afraid of the terror radius.
0 -
They added him way after looping was establiahed
2 -
Not really, some perks helped but nothing was 100% anti stealth till doc
1 -
Imagine that. Looping an exploit and camping isnt.
1 -
Doctor was their first attempt at antilooping
0 -
Cause its the entitiy and killers game, you are lucky to play it, 😏
1 -
Core visions and ideologies change. People who always say "DBD was supposed to be a hide and seek thriller not looping simulator" annoy me, this kind of gameplay that was focused entirely on hiding and not getting caught is clearly not sustainable because it has been tried multiple times in the past in multiple different games. Hide or Die sucks, F13 sucked, etc. the list goes on and on.
3 -
How was it considered an exploit? And if it was considered an exploit, what did people think the survivors were supposed to do? I'm not arguing. I'm genuinely curious.
1 -
Hillbilly was one of the first 3 killers and has no anti-loop.
Trapper would have been a much better example since his power is actually an anti-loop power.
3 -
Hillbilly is good because his non-antiloop non-tracking abilities are so insanely good that he makes up for having no anti-loop or tracking or stealth or stall or anything like that.
His short patrol times and instant downs are just that good.
Which is why bubba who has less than half of that is a ######### killer.
0 -
With the way killer speed works, plus perks, ranged attacks, blink, clown gas, it's safe to say the Killer is meant to catch you. Looping is the only thing you can constructively do until you can set up a pallet drop or safe vault for some distance. I would say the current game demands looping. If you can't hold the killer off your team will be wasting more time unhooking and healing than generator progression.
Im not a big fan, I would like to see chases be able to last a little while before the killer is right on top of you and you are forced to loop or all else 360 and pray.
0 -
Ok but like, that chase time until you start looping is spent running in a straight line. Not exactly engaging gameplay for anyone involved.
1 -
It wasn't. Pallets were designed to slow down a killer enough so you could have an opportunity to hide.
I'm pretty sure devs said it themselves when they were asked about looping and pallets.
4 -
TBH this is part of why scratchmarks are my least favorite mechanic in this game by far.
The strategy of "drop a pallet and hide while the Killer breaks it" would be a perfectly viable strategy if scratchmarks didn't exist.
But since they do you instead don't bother and just keep looping, and thus the game has to be balanced accordingly since they don't want to remove scratchmarks from the game.
3 -
Yeah I got into this game for the horror theme but some games feel more sccoby doo theme with all the looping. Lately I seem to be humming the Benny Hill chase music when playaing against a strong looper. Keeps me sane.
1 -
Pallet looping is the most simple method for chasing, a survivor will learn. When you first play the game, you crumple under fear, so you might just go down immediately. Then you'll start to hide from the killer in chase, only for them to find you. So you now learn that killers can see where you run. So now, you just do your best to stay up for as long as possible next chase, because you think hiding is pointless. Then you realize the killer was caught up with you for this long, while everyone has been making good progress on gens. So then it just clicks with people. Try to not die in a chase for as long as possible, which then leads to looping.
It's not really intentional, no. The game was always meant to be more like hide and seek, but strategies will always catch on with people. And the devs obviously know how much looping is integral to the game now. I wish survivors would try to hide and break off more during chase, but that's a lot harder than looping like I said. I do my best to play like that, so I can attribute to a portion of survivor that doesn't just loop, but you just can't change people sometimes. I say, be the change you wish to see.
0 -
It wasen't but it was a smart move of the devs to embrace and balance around it
The thrill of the chase and the need to mind game people is something that will atract a lot more people then hide and seek
0 -
Face camping was, though. Real face camping, not what kids call "face camping" these days. Face camping is an exploit where you stand in front of the hooked survivor in such a way that the "Unhook" prompt will never show up. It was removed with the introduction of swivel hooks, then reintroduced a couple times due to bugs. The fact that people mistakenly call "face camping" whenever the killer stands in front of the hooked survivor didn't help get it fixed. That's why having strict definitions is important.
Because killers' hitboxes are larger, they can't follow the same path as survivors around an object. They have to go with a wider (and therefore longer) path around objects, so the killers' speed becomes partially irrelevant. In other words, they're essentially exploiting their smaller hitbox to nullify the speed advantage killers are supposed to have.
Survivors were meant to hide and/or break the chase ASAP, like @tixerp said. However, that's too difficult for the vast majority of players (also like tixerp said), so looping became the default. The existence of infinite loops back then didn't help either. Rather than force survivors to play better by changing one small detail that would almost completely eliminate looping, the devs decided to go with it, made looping part of the core gameplay, and balanced around that.
5 -
Looping as we know it probably not, but the game is clearly built around the idea that survivors should extend chases as much as they can. Otherwise there would be no need for the two hits mechanic, windows and pallets.
1 -
When the game first came out, no, it wasnt. Now though? Yes, it is intended.
Looping as we know it now was a bug at the time, but one they ran with. They won’t revert now because many survivor mains have it imprinted on them.
1 -
It must of been.
The survivors haven't got any offensive means except for pallets and at a push, flashlights.
They needed a way of slowing the killer's pursuit and giving the survivor a chance to escape.
Its like in Friday 13th: The Game, the cabin doors could be locked. This was done simply to slow the killer.
1 -
No, it wasn't. Consider this: when someone, during one of the fall 2016 dev streams, asked the devs what they thought about pallet-looping, they answered that they didn't even know what it was.
What is commonly referred as "pallet-looping" is an exploit that takes advantage of the survivors' smaller collision to circle around debris, or, in general, tiles encompassing pallets, pretty much nullifying the killer's higher movement speed.
Most games would classify pallet-looping as "hitbox abuse", and fix it accordingly.
At one point killers started doing a similar thing, namely phisically blocking the space for unhooking. Survivors cried, and that was taken away, whereas pallet-looping is still in the game to date, in spite of being the exact, same thing: hitbox abuse.
A big part in the game-breaking pallet-looping we have today is played by the completely unnecessary pallet omegabuffs introduced in the dreaded patch 1.1.1. : both the time-window and the range for a pallet-stun were made absurdly generous -to the point where killers can be stunned through walls and around corners.
1 -
Or the old face camping needed a better and more explicit name, like unhook blocking. People still call it face camping if the killer is in the survivor's face or really close because it's a fitting name. It makes it much harder to save that survivor, especially with certain killers, add ons and perks. It's just an easy, quick way to distinguish between a killer who camps but stands back several feet or patrols the immediate area around the hook and a killer that gets in your face.
I'm not really sure what calling multiple things face camping did to delay a fix. You're telling me the devs were unaware the prompt didn't show simply because some people used the word more liberally? I find that hard to believe.
Also most words have quite a few definitions and they evolve over time.
Also, also, that was like 3 years ago so who are you calling kids?? Lol
0 -
If they fixed pallet looping the game would be way easier to balance but alas, they are afraid of survivors quitting over the change even tho mostly highrank survivors would be affected by this anyways (a brutally small minority) as most survivors either don't effectively loop pallets or don't loop them at all.
I'd rather have the maps be cluttered with visionblockers, defensive measures etc than running around a pallet 2 times, it's the most baffling thing in this game and makes playing it a joke sometimes.
1 -
"New" face camping already had a term: hard camping. There was a distinction. Sure, we could change the name "retroactively", but it's much easier to go with what we had than to completely change the vocabulary.
It's like spamming M1 while on the hook: it means that the killer is camping, so you shouldn't save. Sure, maybe it sounds a little backwards, but we understood each other. However, with the influx of newbies who use it the wrong way, we now have what could be a very useful action that effectively means nothing, because you have no idea what the player means.
Using "face camping" to mean hard camping delayed a fix because people were reporting "face camping" as a bug without further explanation (or with insults, in typical salty gamer fashion). What does face camping mean nowadays? That the killer is close to the hook, which isn't a bug by any stretch of the imagination. Are the devs supposed to read the player's minds and know who's using the term correctly and who isn't?
It's an expression.
1 -
Looping wasn't considered, funnily enough lol.
0 -
Do you think it's better as it is now. or should the killers have had a smaller hitbox?
0 -
Looping hasn't changed, just the map design philosophy to work around it. Hitboxes are finnicky, you can't just give killers a small hitbox and be done with it, their models are enormous.
What I would do is simply have killers reach their top speed at the same time that survivors do. Killers and survivors accelerate at the same rate, but because killers have a higher top speed, they take longer to reach it. This is why survivors can turn on a dime without losing much speed, whereas killers are noticeably slowed down. That should result in some interesting changes regarding loops.
2 -
Game developers are actually very rarely able to predict how all the mechanics they create will be used by players. Often times "bugs" or "exploits" end up being embraced as core elements of the gameplay loop down the road.
e.g. Just about every element of modern fighting games started out as something unintended or unexpected. Cancelling, combos, etc.
1 -
The game used to be a hide and seek simulator which is another reason why the game used to be so Dark and FOV was limited. When the gameplay loop changed to being about pallet looping quite a lot of the game changed and honestly
For the better. What keeps me playing the game is the unique mindgaming, chasing/looping, map pressure, and other aspects in the game. You will not find this gameplay loop anywhere else especially not in another asymmetrical game. Every game that's come out to challenge DBD has failed and I believe that's because they miss what makes the game so fun in the first place. Its not about hiding, its not about getting the survivor team annihilated its about the actual gameplay loop itself. Everything else is meaningless its that core gameplay that makes this game and makes winning those chases, escaping/defeating the survivors worth it and be satisfying
1 -
If that were to happen, it'd definitely need a whole looping and pallet layout overhaul, it'd be nice if the devs were to do it in a whole massive patch, it would definitely change the game and the meta, since killers aren't slowed down, they'd be VERY strong in chase, so survivors would have to resort to stealth more.
0 -
No, any long time player will tell you that looping was a strategy that was developed over many hours of playing the game. This is why it has taken them so long to adjust it in terms of gameplay, it was never an intended thing to begin with.
That said, they have tried to incorporate it into the gameplay and balancing now because that's just how people play the game. It is what it is at this point. You can still play without looping, but it is far harder to do so now because it is finally being addressed as a main gameplay mechanic.
0 -
lmao, be mad about it, but it's a matter of fact, looping was never thought.
1 -
"Using "face camping" to mean hard camping delayed a fix because people were reporting "face camping" as a bug without further explanation (or with insults, in typical salty gamer fashion). What does face camping mean nowadays? That the killer is close to the hook, which isn't a bug by any stretch of the imagination. Are the devs supposed to read the player's minds and know who's using the term correctly and who isn't?"
I still don't follow. The devs knew that the interaction was blocked because the killer's hitbox was in the way and you could only unhook from the front. How many reports did they need? I don't even think they needed any reports lol. It was very easily reproducible by their QA team. Whether they got 1 report or 10,000 is irrelevant. It's not like a bug that only happens on some maps with certain fog conditions and certain killers with certain add ons lol.
Do you even have any reason to believe the exploit fix was delayed due to false reports? Like did a dev or CM say that?
0 -
Scratch marks are too ridiculously visible and last too long, they should only give the killer an idea which direction you've gone, not lead them right to you. It doesn't even make sense. I don't leave bright red trails while running through the woods and walled maps, like #########, why would anyone "scratch" the walls while trying to escape from a killer?
DBD has repeatedly removed stealth from the game, offering survivors on a silver platter for the Killer and we can't out run them so... LOOPING.
1 -
Bug report comes in, says the killer was face camping. Doesn't go into detail about what that means. Devs assume it means that the killer was close to the hook, report gets thrown out because that's not a bug.
It's been a while, but if memory serves, there were replies that "face camping" wasn't a bug. All because people don't know what "face camping" means.
If you want to argue sense, most of the characters don't have degrees in electrical engineering either, but they sure can repair generators with ease.
DbD has supernatural elements. Don't try to make sense of it by comparing it to real life.
1 -
If you want to argue sense, most of the characters don't have degrees in electrical engineering either, but they sure can repair generators with ease.
DbD has supernatural elements. Don't try to make sense of it by comparing it to real life.
Typically, I agree and can even accept scratch marks to a degree but, the current use of them makes trying to break a chase really hard. If you line up that pallet stun or window vault and gain some distance, you deserve to lose the killer and not have a red hot trail on your ass.
There are unsafe pallets that the Killer wont even bother to follow you through because the path is so short around, they just go around. So as survivor you literally have to stop and try to lure the killer into a loop and pallet drop.
1 -
Why would I be mad? Chases are now the main focus in gameplay in Dead By Daylight as they should be.
Who gives a sh*t about what was when it's not what is.
The "hide and seek thriller" that may have been the original image of the game was lost as soon as infinites were discovered. Which was maybe 2 weeks after launch at minimum and 3 months maximum, very early on in a life cycle that has seen almost 4 years now and is on an upward trend to see many more years to come.
P.S. That's not to say that stealth doesn't exist in Dead By Daylight, it still is a "hide and seek thriller" but like I said it is not the main focus of gameplay that the game is designed and balanced around. Again, as it should be.
0 -
(typing this on a mobile, sorry for any mistype or auto correct being wonky)
Been here since day 1, tried to get into the beta too, but no luck (watched streams of it; beta was locked to lvl 6 and only Trapper was available, we didnt know about Billy nor Wraith back then).
Game was built and "balanced" (rofl & lmao, it was a horrible mess) around hide and seek. Once found by a killer you were supposed to go down after short chase or somehow lose them.
Most people played by running aimlessly for few days, dying in random parts of the map. Few days later, first meta formed, self caring at pallets (SC took 6 seconds to fully heal yourself back then). Meanwhile people were quickly healing back mid chase while camping pallets (no looping), a disgusting dark ages of dbd started to form, news of complete safe space around all maps but Shelter Woods were found. Infinites, areas at which survivors could run around and NEVER be able to be caught by the killer.
There was no blood lust, no entity blocker for Windows, killer vaulting animation was much slower and survivors had sprint burst on a generic 20 second cooldown, window fast vaults no matter what angle you came at and if I remember correctly, window and pallet vacuums, basically built in dead hard year before it was a thing.
For the next few months, dbd was played by Infinites. Many survivors completely refused to use them for good sport, often also body blocking survivors who did happen to abuse them, letting killer hook them. It lastws for a long time and it took a long, painful while for the devs to understand what Infinites are, Meanwhile Cote started becoming a meme of Bhvr, he said "It takes a lot of skill to pull off anything resembling an infinite"... Community was outraged due to the ignorance.
Nonetheless, Nurse came out, Infinites were finally counterable by a single killer, besides somewhat by the Trapper.
These were also the times when more and more people started running loops around pallet locations. Hell, actually most pallets back then were actually placed in pairs. You hear me right, there were tiles with 2 pallets next to each other. The basic jungle gym had 2 pallets and a window. (or 2 pallets and 2 Windows, cant remember now, it was years ago, both L Wall and long Wall had a window and both RNG pallet spots in current jungle gyms had active pallets).
Devs started to balance said tiles and survivors had to adapt, thus more and more people started to actually not just run straight from pallet to another one but instead loop around. It was hated by a lot of killer players, myself included (I really dont mind it now and enjoy the chase loop we currently have).
Proper looping started to be a thing around the Halloween DLC release.
Many things has changed from these times, whole playstyle of dbd has changes drastically from the release, from being a slow paced hide and seek based game to the current action packed roundabout sim.
Dbd currently is in a much, much better state than it ever was back in these disgusting times. If we had the release version of dbd and current player experience levels of an average 1k hour players, killer would NEVER be able to catch nor even hit anyone even if said survivor wouldnt use any perks available back then.
1
