SWF opt-out
Comments
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@powerbats said:
@Nightmare247 said:
You bring up some excellent points. Map balance would be a huge benefit to both sides. If you have better maps, less infinite loop spots, maybe more window/doors versus pallets you could start to remove Bloodlust, but that is a different topic. I have seen an increase in actually playing against each other (mindgames, decision making) versus sprint burst to the ironworks and loop 15 times over.
Agreed, the tile changes on Autohaven were nice, but some spots like barn really need a good nerf bat.
While I suggested the 5th perk, I understand the balance around that, but you cannot really balance around voice comms either. While I said before that I do not find it cheating, it was not intended for gameplay. That is why there are no internal game voice comms and very little emotes to provide information. Then it becomes how do you counter something that is not cheating, that there is no AntiVoice system and that is outside of your control, in the game? That comes down to one of two responses....Do you take something away (punish) users even if they are not using voice (perk, add-on, extra generator, etc) or do you increase the other side to improve their performance? Either way, one side is already unbalanced so how do you make that whole again?
The way to balance is to improve maps so if you improve the maps you can then tweak killers easier. But you also will probably need to change/remove some perks on both sides. Perhaps give the killer something t help them versus swf only but without telling them it's a buff. That way they don't know who's who until after the game
For the killer, you don't have much you can do. You cannot increase his/her power. Making 1 time instant downs is way too powerful. You could run a random add-on, but that could help/hinder a killer. Could you increase the speed? but again that could be unfair if there are any solo players. What is the best we could do? I think my 5th add-on suggestion was not a poor one. It allows the killer to choose what the add-on is. Just make it a default slot calling out SWF 5th perk or something. This can be the killers choice. Sure it may unbalance the game. A killer could run Ruin, Nurse, Whispers, BBQ + Franklin's/Make Your choice and that could steamroll a team. But remember a killer has to catch the survivors before the generators go off. (PLEASE DON'T SUGGEST ADDING MORE TIME TO GENERATORS) So they are fighting against a clock.
I think a 5th slot could work but there'd have to be limitations on what you could do with it to make it not completely game breaking. because then you'd have to either remove/rework it or nerf the killers. If they can ever get to where it's more about stealth and actual evasion swf won't be such a huge issue.
Because then it becomes a game of hide and seek and you can buff killers at that point to be really scary no matter who're they're against. Similar to how Hide or die works, even with groups the killer has advantages.
What if the Devs created 5 (or so) specific perks for use in the 5th slot only? They could not be accessed in the bloodweb all players no matter what had them, but they can be selected as a build out, but only go in the 5th slot.
I had a few ideas. 1. Increased Gen Regression speed. (I don't think this is noticeable in a game to a killer maybe 5-10% faster) 2. A blood point multiplier that would trigger at the end of the trial. 3. Pallet reduction (remove 2-3 randomly) I don't think many would notice that. 4. Window Boards (a few windows would appear cutting off an escape route) 5. The random status effect when hooked that enabled when unhooked (survivors could get blindness, exhaustion, exposed, hindered, mangled).
The last one was a bit more than I was looking for, but it was a start. Then at the end of the game it would be revealed as the 5th perk activated only for the bp.
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@powerbats said:
Since if the killer knows players 1 and 2 are swf or even 1-3 he'll tunnel and camp the solo queues because they're much easier.Dude, what's wrong with you ! You ARE saying, RIGHT HERE, that solo players are easier to catch than SWF. How can you then pretend there is nothing to be done to prevent this disadventage. And don't tell me about solo players being noobs or whatever as if you ignored that voice coms have a huge impact on the game, even though DBD, do not have its own comm service.
Just to be clear: solo player's disaventage do not come from DBD itself, since it comes mainly from 3rd party programs like voice comm programs as TeamSpeak. Thus, trying to balance survivors VS killers in general makes no sense at all because any advantage (better maps, or 5th perk, or whatever) given to the killers will be felt twice as much by solo players which have nothing to do with the problem at hand.
So, the key to a balanced game, is to make SWF parties, less awesome. And since devs canno't cut the voice communications (because this is not par of DBD anyways), they need to debuff SWF players drasticly.
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@Utna said:
@powerbats said:
Since if the killer knows players 1 and 2 are swf or even 1-3 he'll tunnel and camp the solo queues because they're much easier.Dude, what's wrong with you ! You ARE saying, RIGHT HERE, that solo players are easier to catch than SWF. How can you then pretend there is nothing to be done to prevent this disadventage. And don't tell me about solo players being noobs or whatever as if you ignored that voice coms have a huge impact on the game, even though DBD, do not have its own comm service.
Just to be clear: solo player's disaventage do not come from DBD itself, since it comes mainly from 3rd party programs like voice comm programs as TeamSpeak. Thus, trying to balance survivors VS killers in general makes no sense at all because any advantage (better maps, or 5th perk, or whatever) given to the killers will be felt twice as much by solo players which have nothing to do with the problem at hand.
So, the key to a balanced game, is to make SWF parties, less awesome. And since devs canno't cut the voice communications (because this is not par of DBD anyways), they need to debuff SWF players drasticly.
I feel you, but the same reason you said solo player would be at a disadvantage with any improvement to killers makes SWF defuff a bad idea.
Here is the thing....If you put a nerf, debuff, etc on an SWF team they will feel as though they are being punished for playing with their friends. That "punishment" will either send them packing never to return to DbD for being treated unfairly or will cause them to lobby hop until they find all of their party and avoid the debuff.
So you run into a very difficult scenario for all parties SWF/Solo/Killer. The Devs response originally was to improve the information that the solo player had. Icons that showed someone was in a chase, someone was nearby, give them as many details as possible to balance the non-voice communications. If that is still planned or is still in the works, a buff to the killer would not put the solo at a much of a risk. Now, this is not currently the case, so yes, a solo would be at a disadvantage at the moment.
I do think though that more information to the solo part the better and then the Killer can be buffed without as many consequences against SWF teams.
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@Nightmare247 said:
What if the Devs created 5 (or so) specific perks for use in the 5th slot only? They could not be accessed in the bloodweb all players no matter what had them, but they can be selected as a build out, but only go in the 5th slot.
I had a few ideas. 1. Increased Gen Regression speed. (I don't think this is noticeable in a game to a killer maybe 5-10% faster) 2. A blood point multiplier that would trigger at the end of the trial. 3. Pallet reduction (remove 2-3 randomly) I don't think many would notice that. 4. Window Boards (a few windows would appear cutting off an escape route) 5. The random status effect when hooked that enabled when unhooked (survivors could get blindness, exhaustion, exposed, hindered, mangled).
The last one was a bit more than I was looking for, but it was a start. Then at the end of the game it would be revealed as the 5th perk activated only for the bp.
1st idea is actually quite nice but should the killer know it's been activated or not be told until after the game is over? Since unless the effect is hidden they'll know pretty quickly. Perhaps the 5 specific perks with no noticeable effect to the killer is a good idea.
The few ideas isn't bad, the 5% -10% regression speed wouldn't be noticeable to either side so survivors would have to risk tapping the gen. The extra bp is something that's been bandied about and most have no problem with it. Pallet reduction is a tricky one because it might take the 3 safe pallets and leave the survivors completely screwed. Perhaps a tweak of some kind on that one or leave it be for now.
The windows thing would be more easily solved by getting rid of some of the infinite spots (BARN !!!!) while perhaps removing some of the obstacles that allow endless looping. But give them more LOS blockers and places to evade properly after removal of infinites spots. The 5th would be really problematic.
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What a lot of you fail to understand is that there is no difference between 4 good solo Survivors and 4 SWF.
4 good solo Survivors will make it look like SWF.
I wish they would add something to show SWF on the post game tally screen.
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@Tizzle said:
What a lot of you fail to understand is that there is no difference between 4 good solo Survivors and 4 SWF.Now you can't be serious ? With voice communication, SWF will know where the killer is about to go and always are at least 5 seconds ahead any of his moves. These 5 seconds makes all the difference between being caught off gard (repairing a gen, or oppening the gates) and not. Maybe you can't tel the difference, because solo survivors are ahead of you anyway, but you can at least understand that guessing something from experience and knowing something for sure, thanks to voice communication, are absolutly not the same.
Guesses can be tricky, so killers might mind game their way around them. On the other hand, knowledge is knowledge, there's nothing killers can do, if the survivor knows exactly where they are.1 -
@Utna said:
@Tizzle said:
What a lot of you fail to understand is that there is no difference between 4 good solo Survivors and 4 SWF.Now you can't be serious ? With voice communication, SWF will know where the killer is about to go and always are at least 5 seconds ahead any of his moves. These 5 seconds makes all the difference between being caught off gard (repairing a gen, or oppening the gates) and not. Maybe you can't tel the difference, because solo survivors are ahead of you anyway, but you can at least understand that guessing something from experience and knowing something for sure, thanks to voice communication, are absolutly not the same.
Guesses can be tricky, so killers might mind game their way around them. On the other hand, knowledge is knowledge, there's nothing killers can do, if the survivor knows exactly where they are.And that's the biggest issue with swf I don't mind the toxicity. But unhooking each other as soon they know they are safe, healing each other right away without empathy that's bull.
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@Utna said:
@Tizzle said:
What a lot of you fail to understand is that there is no difference between 4 good solo Survivors and 4 SWF.Now you can't be serious ? With voice communication, SWF will know where the killer is about to go and always are at least 5 seconds ahead any of his moves. These 5 seconds makes all the difference between being caught off gard (repairing a gen, or oppening the gates) and not. Maybe you can't tel the difference, because solo survivors are ahead of you anyway, but you can at least understand that guessing something from experience and knowing something for sure, thanks to voice communication, are absolutly not the same.
Guesses can be tricky, so killers might mind game their way around them. On the other hand, knowledge is knowledge, there's nothing killers can do, if the survivor knows exactly where they are.Yes I'm dead serious.
Good Survivors know where the Killer is without voice, it's not that difficult .
Like I said, they need to add something to the end game tally screen so these stupid posts stop.
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@Tizzle said:
Yes I'm dead serious.Good Survivors know where the Killer is without voice, it's not that difficult .
Like I said, they need to add something to the end game tally screen so these stupid posts stop.
So you can't tell the difference between knowing something and guessing something. Alright, I wish I could be around when you play poker. Looks like so much fun.
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I propose a new mode with 2 Killers and 6-8 Survivors, with more gens obviously. It'll give the killer a partner to party with (if they so choose).
I also was thinking of some kind of free for all with survivors, where their goal is to gather resources but, there's a limited amount and when in the vicinity of others, everything is much slower (run speed, looting, ect), so it discourages trying to work together. The survivor needs to race against the others in order to exit through the hatch/portal...and only one can leave once they have gathered the materials in order to do so.
All while there is a killer chasing them down of course. I think this would appeal more to Killers and those survivors who play solo.
Just a thought anyway.0 -
@AzazelAxios said:
I propose a new mode with 2 Killers and 6-8 Survivors, with more gens obviously. It'll give the killer a partner to party with (if they so choose).I also was thinking of some kind of free for all with survivors, where their goal is to gather resources but, there's a limited amount and when in the vicinity of others, everything is much slower (run speed, looting, ect), so it discourages trying to work together. The survivor needs to race against the others in order to exit through the hatch/portal...and only one can leave once they have gathered the materials in order to do so.
All while there is a killer chasing them down of course. I think this would appeal more to Killers and those survivors who play solo.
Just a thought anyway.
What's the point? Once you are on the hook nobody's going to help you.
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HellDescent said:
@AzazelAxios said:
I propose a new mode with 2 Killers and 6-8 Survivors, with more gens obviously. It'll give the killer a partner to party with (if they so choose).I also was thinking of some kind of free for all with survivors, where their goal is to gather resources but, there's a limited amount and when in the vicinity of others, everything is much slower (run speed, looting, ect), so it discourages trying to work together. The survivor needs to race against the others in order to exit through the hatch/portal...and only one can leave once they have gathered the materials in order to do so.
All while there is a killer chasing them down of course. I think this would appeal more to Killers and those survivors who play solo.
Just a thought anyway.
What's the point? Once you are on the hook nobody's going to help you.
HellDescent said:@AzazelAxios said:
I propose a new mode with 2 Killers and 6-8 Survivors, with more gens obviously. It'll give the killer a partner to party with (if they so choose).I also was thinking of some kind of free for all with survivors, where their goal is to gather resources but, there's a limited amount and when in the vicinity of others, everything is much slower (run speed, looting, ect), so it discourages trying to work together. The survivor needs to race against the others in order to exit through the hatch/portal...and only one can leave once they have gathered the materials in order to do so.
All while there is a killer chasing them down of course. I think this would appeal more to Killers and those survivors who play solo.
Just a thought anyway.
What's the point? Once you are on the hook nobody's going to help you.
Make it so this mode there aren't hooks, perhaps a pit or something you get thrown into. Maybe increase the hit it takes to down survivors too.
Just brainstorming.
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