let's argue: soul guard
I think soul guard is definitely a new meta perk and requires no nerfs currently, so what is your opinion on soul guard?
Comments
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Time will show. It has potential.
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It's not op
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Exactly,I also remember people complain about Breakout. lol
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I don't run Hex perks as killer so I'm not worried about it at all it'll be a wasted perk slot vs me.
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Of course it is. Just another headache of a perk to deal with.
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It will not be used. Same like always - some random, bad Survivor Perk gets released, Forums say it will be OP... and well, it wont. Especially the Unbreakable-effect... There is no reason to not cleanse a active Hex.
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I never said it was op but being able unbreakable infront of the killer with no downside seems pretty strong to me, even more so if you can use it multiple times
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finally, survivor have a reason to not cleanse my devour hope totem
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i feel like its really only good in niche situations and in a SWF team. unless you're talking with the other survivors, they wont know (and maybe not even care) that you're running it, and will likely get rid of a hex totem because they dont want to deal with it. and even then it only does something if the killer slugs you. the endurance after being healed? i guess for the situations where the survivor desperately wants you healed while the killers coming.
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Im a bit confused about this perk, are you able to recover fully before you know you are affected by a hex?
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letting anyone get up using just unbreakable is no fault but the killers, if they let multiple people get up on their own the killer is just being foolish. I dont leave people on the ground unless I see someone else, and if that downed person gets up, that is on me.
It'll be okay, people will adapt and not slug as much. win win for everyone.
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It's actually a really good perk in many other situations tho. I have had plenty of games where I got picked up by a survivor who was being chased(even though I didnt want to), only to be downed again by the killer and having to restart my recovery bar while also losing even more time on the ground. Now I can get endurance for some time, giving me enough space to take a hit for a damage boost and gain enough distance from the killer. The picking up factor while there is a hex is only a plus.
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No, you have to have the cursed status effect applied to you. Meaning that you wont be able to recover when Thrill of the Hunt is active, when you never cleansed any totems.
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That makes it even more situational, its interesting but not something I would like to run every game at red ranks
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Not a single survivor perk is OP, and out of the new ones, I think Repressed Alliance will have an overall stronger effect since it can counter Pop quite strongly.
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It is, however, I dont really rely on perks too much and only grab perks that could save me from an otherwise ######### killer. Having Soul Guard equipped allows you to be helped up by a teammate and not be instantly downed by a killer again(which is basically the same reason why some people run DS in case they get farmed by a teammate). The self pick-up is just a bonus.
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The thing is, this is a really niche situation. And most likely it occurs when the game is already lost for the Survivors. Can it turn the game around tho? I doubt it.
I mean, we will see in the end, but I dont think that any of the Silent Hill Perks will be used.
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It's not that niche, and can actually be a game changing moment in a game, because instead of having 1 survivor down and 1 healthy and running around, you now have 1 healthy survivor and one with deep wounds.
Besides, its not always about losing, its about being able to do something else rather than just laying on the ground. You know how boring it is spending 60 seconds on the ground after having your bar being 90% and then someone finally picks you up, and you get instadowned again?
Heck, even today, I was downed vs a Hag, then a teammate picked me up and started running while Hag was able to teleport and instadown me and trap me again. Having a perk that prevents those situations can only increase the fun of ######### games and at worst be unused. But I've had games where Iron Will was unused, games where Inner Strength was unused, games where Adrenaline, at best, only gave a speedboost, games where Unbreakable was unused, games where DS was unused. The list goes on and on. The amount of perks that get unused while playing the game are bigger than you think. But its under the list of perks that when they do get used, they can change the game.
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You know devour hope doesn't trigger the unbreakable effect until the exposed part is active right?
Until the curse pyramid icon appears it doesn't count towards soul guard.
Edit: Another example is thrill of the hunt wouldn't count until you start to cleanse a totem as well.
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You should at least read the perk descriptions. But hey, youre just one of the biggest killer trolls in here, so you cant do better.
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Maybe my lullaby won't be assassinated game start anymore. That and haunted grounds are the only hexs I run and even then it's seldom.
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I dont think that your Lullaby will survive. Nobody wants to deal with Lullaby-Skill Checks just for the small chance that they can pick themselves up.
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Aww oh well. At least there are some games where it reaches full power.
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Its ok. Not useless but not good.
For it to be useful you need the hex constantly in game I can assure you that there are lots of killers that would gladly give survivors unlimited unbreakables if it means their hex stays up the entire game, me being one of them.
The other problem is you need to have an understanding between each other not to cleanse hex. That random solo survivor that finds the spicy bones will ruin it for you 100% of the time. You can do a 4 swf but then look at my first point.
And this is all based on the idea that the killer has a hex, after Ruin nerf I see more killers without hexes than with.
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I think it's better to phrase these posts as let's discuss rather than let's argue...
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It's a good perk if you find yourself in the ideal situation where it shines, but it's never going to be meta because the main effect of Soul Guard is endurance when you get picked up which is not an amazing effect worth giving up a perk slot for.
Now if you face Haunted Grounds, Third Seal, or NOED killer that slugs, then sure it's great. Also if you happen to find yourself in a situation where you can leave thrill of the hunt or retribution up it's also great there.
It's just too dependent on a killer running a hex to get the full value that I don't see it being ran much.
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I feel like this perk will be mostly a counter to killers who try to slug you in end game with NOED. So pretty situational, but still the best perk that came out from this chapter.
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We should argue about that distinction! 😎
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That is kind of the point. It is BVHR's gentle nudge to stop killers from slugging. Don't slug and any survivor running this perk is playing with 3 perks instead of 4. I think people will mess around with it at first cause it is shiny and new and then they will realize it's not all that good. Seriously doubt it becomes meta.
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Okay:
Let's argue: 🤬
Let's discuss: 😡
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Its not what I thought it was.
It only works for slugs getting up
And unlimited unbreakable only works for hexs.
So like it sucks for the killers to have yet another reason not to run 1/5th of there perks and it really sucks that an entire slug meta is eliminated because of this perks mere existence.
On pH it won't make a difference because cages but on everyone else its gonna be rough.
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It's a really bad perk trust me, you don't want to be wasting a perk slot for something that wont get used 90% of the time. This is me speaking with a infectious fright and devour hope build, with hillbilly. No i will not slug, until i get pissed off and don't care who gets the hatch.
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I think this could be useful, but I see the one where you can block gens being particularly more useful against Pop users. For the People has proven useful for me in clutch situations, but lots of other combos are fun to work with as wel.
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Another nerf to Ruin, another second chance for Survivors to use when they already have like fifty.
Don't care if it's situational or not, it's godawful game design and will only cause strife.
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After the hex is cleansed, you still have permanent unbreakable. Could be a bug tho.
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Soul Guard is going to be OP as hell with certain combinations. DS+Dead Hard/Sprint Burst+Soul Guard = 60 seconds of invincibility. You try to wait out the DS, Soul Guard into DH/SB. You pick them up immediately, DS. Add in Unbreakable or No Mither in case the Killer doesn't have a Hex active. Shoot, you could add in Unbreakable anyways for a faster revive. There are too many stackable second chance perks for Survivors in the game. Killers can't even stack most of their perks.
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As long as perks like DS, BT, spine chill, adrenaline, and any exhaustion perks are meta this perk won't be meta
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Okay a while ago I did unbreakable tests and charted it like this.
Came in handy = I got myself up and lasted 10+ seconds afterwards.
Almost Came in handy = got myself up but went down within 10 seconds.
Useless = Didn't get myself up at all.
Now lemme show the numbers which I still have saved.
Came in Handy: 6 games
Almost came in handy: 21 games
Useless: 73 games (Killers really dont slug much dont know why people complain about it)
Anyways these numbers show that soul guard would basically make unbreakable go from an average of usefulness of 6 games per 100 too at minimum 27 games per 100. I'll do retests when Soul Guard comes out but I think it'll definitely be ran into my normal builds because very frequently I get picked up and downed within 10 seconds.
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Keep in mind, Soul Guard requires you to be actively Cursed for it's Unbreakable effect to activate AND it has no boost to recovery speed like Unbreakable.
You also have nothing to reasonably support the claim that 27 out of 100 games of usefulness will be the guaranteed minimum amount of games where it's useful. There's no guarantee of even getting slugged 27 out of 100 games, let alone being slugged long enough to benefit from Soul Guard.
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I think he means that he would have had the Endurance to not go down after a few seconds again.
But I agree to the rest of your post. This is why Unbreakable isnt even that much of a great Perk - it only works when the Killer slugs but can have a big impact. If the Killer is not slugging, the Survivor plays with 3 Perks.
Even tho, I dont know if I would dedicate two Perk Slots (Unbreakable and Soul Guard) for this.
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I'm pretty sure Soul Guard is destined for the dumpster.
It's fairly strong in it's niche scenarios - but in the end that is still a niche usefulness. I just don't see this being able to compete with the reliable and string meta perks out there.
From a meta perspective; why use Soul Guard
Borrowed Time but for being sluggedwhen there are other more reliable perks?0 -
Should one choose:
- A perk that allows to get oneself up once without additional activation conditions and a with speed recovery speed bonus, regardless of what perks the killer brought;
OR
- A perk HOPING that the killer brings a high-risk high-reward hex, which one would then be encouraged to leave standing (thus a no-risk hex), in exchange for the ability to recover from the dying state unlimited amounts of times, HOPING that the killer slugs that much. Not to mention that getting slugged for long enough once is already situational.
It seems pretty straightforward to me.
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Another survivor perk that can be easily countered by simply not slugging...
As for combining it with DS, they're using up two perk slots for a one time use effect, of course it's supposed to be very difficult to counter...
Even though this perks isn't anything more than an alternative to unbreakable, it's probably gonna get nerfed just because of all the complaining, two nerfs i'm predicting is that you only get enduring if you recover when the killer is within close proximity or endirung will be one time use only.
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That's not the reason why soulguard is good. It's a nice addition, but it's the endurance effect after getting picked up off the ground that's strong, because if you immediately try to reslug someone who just got off the ground, you're gonna have a bad time.
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true, but if you're going up against a killer that understands this perk, then thats only going to work once. next time they see you get healed, they'll either chase you and wait the 8 seconds, or go after the person who healed you.
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Soul Guard isn't used for the unbreakable effect its used for the Endurance effect.
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I assumed you were replacing Unbreakable with Soul Guard, not using both. My bad.
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Then you'd only have benefited from Soul Guard in 21 of those games; the 6 where you weren't immediately downed it would have been useless.
And you still can't guarantee that minimum of 21 games out of 100 will happen instead of ones where nobody is slugged. You could be running two perks, half your build, that will never activate.
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50% of the perk relies on the killer having a Hex Perk cursing you, which in a way, won't be something you can expect to last long since survivors will cleanse it quickly. Best case scenario, you'll get this benefit when the killer is NOED slugging for momentum or Devour Hope.
The other 50% of the perk requires you to recover from the dying state, this is not a hard condition to fulfill since slugging is a strategy most killers use. However, the part that makes this situational is that you need someone to rescue you and sometimes that's not possible. People can cut out this part by using Unbreakable, but at that point, you're sacrificing two perks for when the killer does slug you.
Overall, this perk is pretty balanced, Endurance shouldn't be a status effect survivor get often. 🙂
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It seems fine, it will be meta though. Glad you are doing let's argue as well :D.
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I will argue we haven't seen it's uses on its own or in synergy with other perks or what situations, however common or rare, it may be of use and how hard of a counter it is to killer perks or strategies so we should wait until mass release and usage across a variety of platforms and a multitude of trials before we come to a definitive conclusion.
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