Why does the EGC happen when the exit gates are open and not when the final gen is completed?
The whole point of the collapse is to put pressure on the survivors to get out of the game, stopping the endless starring contests that would happen if the killer caught a survivor after the gates were open. But the current implementation of the EGC seems counterproductive.
Survivors simply 99% the exit gates and only open them when they'll about to escape. Completely removing any pressure that the EGC was supposed to put on them. And the "Counter" to this, if you can even call it that, is for the killer to open the gates for the survivors.
Let me paint you a picture;
All gens are completed and the killer has caught a survivor. The survivor is on their first hook, all other survivors are healing near an gate gate and both gates are 99'ed. The killer doesn't know where the survivors are, but assumes that they're probably healing up to try and save. The killer now has 2 options. Abandon the hooked survivor, leaving them open to be easily saved, just so they can start the EGC timer that is also slowed while the survivor is hooked, or just camp the hook and try to defend the best they can.
This scenario is boring and uninteractive for both sides.
Survivors are at no risk of dying if the killer has no traps or ability to instadown, since on most maps the speed boost from being hit once is enough to safety make it to a gate, if they weren't already there. And the killer either stares at the hook for 2 minutes straight and maybe trades with someone attempting to save, or risks giving up their only form of pressure by opening a gate, which is arguably not even worth doing because they're literally helping the survivors escape.
None of the above would happen, and the end game might actually be exciting, if the EGC simply started when the final gen was completed. So why isn't it?
Comments
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I dont disagree, it would also crank the anxiety to 10 when noed is in play. Hope would be a much better perk as would no one left behind
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That's the point. To give them time to try to save. If the game didn't punish you for not saving then I suppose you could start it then.
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But that's the thing, it gives them too much time. Potentially infinite time in fact. The EGC is the only thing that actually pressures survivors once the gens have been done. But since one of the gates have to be open to trigger it, it rarely does, causing most of my late games to be me pitching my tent, roasting some marshmallows, and preparing for the 2 minute long camp I'm likely to undertake.
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I suggested it before. Have EGC begin when all gens are complete, but extend the timer so it isn't unfair.
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As far as i know, i believe the intention of EGC wasn't to put pressure on the survivors, but instead force the survivors to leave. Before it, once the gates were open the survivors could sit at the gates forever, or even run back in and hide in a nook and/or cranny and delay the game for ages
EGC isnt supposed to kill survivors, and 9/10 times it doesn't. Its just a tool to expedite triumphant survivors, and quicken a match in the case of the hatch closing. And as killer, if you ever want the pressure of the EGC, just open a gate yourself
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Killers can just open the door.
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As every bad sport knows, the best time to gloat is when you've already won. If you started the EGC when the last gen was completed that would take away from the 4v1 bullying experience.
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They could increase the time of egc by 45 secs to a min 🤷♂️
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Does it? Didnt know that
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EGC is not meant to score you extra kills or anything but simply put, to allow for the game to end. It's meant to prevent hostage situations in which survivors could hide indefinitely. With the introduction of the EGC, you dont have to worry about such a situation. That's all its meant to do.
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Then hit the door if it bothers you that much. Egc was setup to end the match in a timely manner. Not to give the killer free pressure.
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The point of EGC isn't to pressure survivors to leave, the point of EGC is simply so the game doesn't last forever.
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Um, killers can open the door. Having 2 minute timer to open doors and save people is crazy.. plus BW would be OP AF at that point.
If you want the timer to start faster, open the door.
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Then its basically made a t-bag at the gate timer. It might as well be 30 seconds or something if thats' the case. But clearly it isn't since it's meant to allow survivors to still act and do things. Including saving other survivors and there's more than enough time to run out. Loot or whatever then come back.
Great idea but this requires the killer to break pressure at key end game point..walk up to a gate that generally on the far side of map...open the gate...then somehow apply pressure while the gate is open. So unless you got NOED or every survivor is injured you ain't doing nothing as killer and we all know it. keep in mind while all this is happening the survivors are also opening-or have opened- the other gate. This type of stuff is what made blood warden a dead perk thanks to survivors having control of a timer that should pressure them, for some reason.
There is no way to apply pressure in this scenario without noed and possibly warden combo and even then...YOU are at the gate...so you got to run back and hope the survivors havent scattered to the other gate and left. This dosen't apply pressure...it just makes you conede the game. The only way I've seen this trick work is if you downed someone near the gate and you have blood warden.
Timers by design apply pressure.
No survivor die to EGC because they control when it happens thanks to the mistake of playing it on gate activation, which is the home free point of the game for survivors. This is more a flaw in the game, wiether a flaw by design or not.
EGC should just activate at the last gen. There's enough time to open either gate, time extenstions to save people and people control when gens are done-so they stll have some control of when it activates- at least with the gate still closed and then having to get to it the timer will run down a bit. Making people actually leave when they finally open it because some anxiety/pressure is up or they will muck around and die to it.
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Since the survivors control when it starts it effectively fails at forcing them to leave
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As long as doors can spawn right next to eachother EGC should not start when last gen is completed.
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You are right, the way EGC works currently with the main way it activating being in the hands of the survivors does favour survivors, but i believe that's the point. Its not a tool for killers in there arsenal, its not something you should regularly expect to use, nor should you expect it to be a good method of securing kills.
The devs intentionally made it 2mins long, and extended when someone is downed/hooked. They made a decision to have such a lenient timer and have it activate when the match is all but over. Its design, as far as i believe, is purely to make the game end. Once its activated, the match will 100% end. The killer can chase the survivors out, try to recoup losses and hold a grip on any survivors theyve caught already, or even simply wait it out and the survivors will leave within 2 minutes.
Theres 3 ways EGC activates. 1; survivor/s open a gate, so the match is already pretty much over. 2: killer opens the gate, which is more or less a concession, or could also be used tactically (but imo is very niche and counterproductive) or 3: the hatch is closed, which is very heavily killer sided
As far as im concerned, its merely to stop matches being held fully hostage. If a killers trapped a survivor in a corner, the EGC from his teamates will still end the match. If the last survivor is hiding forever, closing the hatch will force them to move. Only hostage situation it doesn't stop is the final survivor getting trapped by the killer, or 2+ survivors in positions the killer can't reach
Tldr: its designed to end matches, not be a tool for killers to kill with
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This is exactly what I mean. It makes no sense for the EGC timer to just stop games from going on forever. Killer's, unless using 1 or more endgame perk, are always weakest once the gens are complete. Guarding the gates can be physically impossible if they spawn too far apart.
Changing the EGC to start once the final gen is complete would help even out the power dynamic since most survivors who repair all gens are most likely going to escape, due to DBD's tendency to heavily snowball in one team's favor.
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As you said yourself, by the time survivors have the gate open they've already won most of the time. So why not finally have a change that helps counter snowballing? How the EGC was originally designed is irreverent. Left Behind is a perk that was originally designed, but that doesn't change the fact that the actual design is terrible.
I'll admit that comparing Left Behind and the EGC isn't a 1:1 comparison, but my point still stands that originally designed or not the EGC could be better implemented to give players a more engaging game. As a survivor, I don't feel engaged when I know there's a 99% chance that once my team has the gates open I've already escaped. And as killer I don't feel engaged staring at someone for 2 minutes.
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So the killer just has to guard the exit gates for roughly 3 minutes, and they win? That doesn't seem fair. Especially when a killer like Trapper can just trap the exit gates. The Endgame Countdown begins once the exit gates are opened to usher survivors out, and end any stare down contests where survivors can hold a killer hostage. The killer cannot be held hostage thanks to the EGC. They can either open the exit gates themselves, and force the survivors out. Or they can defend the exit gates for as long as they feel comfortable doing so. But survivors STILL have a chance at opening those gates, saving people, etc... as long as the game continues.
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It absolutely would not be OP.
I've already gone over why opening the door is a terrible idea since it removes all of the the killer's pressure and forces them to guard the gate they just opened for the survivors.
As for BW, remember that the EGC timer slows when a survivor is downed or hooked. Having already tried to get kills with the EGC for a challenge, (another atrocious design choice by the way) that it's very difficult to get value out of it beyond a down or 2. Since once survivors know you have it they'll just hide and wait out the timer, usually right outside BW's detection range, and escape once it's done.
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If there's more than 2 survivors alive, getting the doors open is laughably easy. Even with killers designed with area control, Trapper, Hag, etc, they simply can't protect the gates for that long. Never mind that to trigger the EGC currently, they have to forgo one of the gates entirely, and any pressure they had prior to opening it.
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Oh for sure, i would love mechanics in this game to be more fleshed out for both sides. I was merely explaining why the current interaction of EGC is how it is.
Personally i would love there to be more pressure on both sides, where the early game is alot less weaker for killers and the late game to be more stressful for each side of the game. Something as simple as having exit gates tick down overtime would be cool, despite the arguement that "survivors will just have someone stand neat the gate" there is still merit to it, as a survivor at the gate can't go save the one on a hook
And yeah, times change, perks change and even EGC might change, but i do know the game is alot better off having it in its current form, but i dont believe we will get grand sweeping changes to the game, if breakable walls are anything to go by
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The point of the End Game Collapse is to prevent end game from lasting forever, not for you to get more kills.
Yes opening the door is a bad idea if you want kills but not if you want to end the game, Its called End Game Collapse, not get me more kills.
As for why starting EGC as soon as the last gen is done and why that is just stupid powerful for the killer. One, yes the survivors could complete a gen next to a door but that is not always likely. Meaning a survivor could have to travel between 10-20 seconds to get to a door, opening a single door is 20 seconds (36 with remember me) meaning the EGC would already be at 30-56 seconds over. Thats 1/4 or 1/2 of the 2 minute timer gone. That doesn't even account for if survivors our injured which can add 8-16-24 (assuming only 3 injured and the killer chasing someone, add 8 seconds for 4th injured survivor) seconds to that timer bringing it to a total of 38-80 seconds
And the timer slows down to half when someone is downed or hooked But has a maximum time of 4 minutes. Meaning after a certain point it doesn't matter if someone is in the dying state or hooked. BW takes up at least 1 minute of the maximum 4 minutes. Also remember this slow down only counts when someone is on the hook or in the dying state. Meaning assuming you didn't do an entirely crap job as killer and the person you hook dies. The BW uses up a whole minute of the 2 minute timer, because it's not slowed due to a survivor being in the dyning state or hooked. They are dead, there is no slowdown.
So essentially if you were to hook someone and the survivors uses their 38-80 seconds to open the door and heal and that hooked person died than BW would kill the remaining 3. You wouldn't even need the chase them. That is OP AF
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For the same reason why survivors dont' spawn on hooks at the start of the match
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EGC is there to force the game to an end. It is not a tool to give the Killer easy Kills.
Also Killers can open the Gates on their own if they like.
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The point of the EGC is to force survivors to leave, it is not meant as a way of getting kills.
If survivors refuse to leave then you, yourself, can open the exit gates to begin the collapse.
Just realised I basically said exactly what @Aven_Fallen did lol.
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This would be like having all of the gens start progressing at the start of the match. No base game mechanic should hand a win to one side or the other.
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Because the killer can corner a survivor and just wait out 2 minutes. With corner a survivor I mean staying with him at a loop not trying to catch him unless the survivor moves out.
That's what happens to me very often when my team mates open the gates when I'm in chase
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The purpose of EGC is to force Survivors to escape; too many liked to mess around once the game was effectively finished, especially if they perceived the Killer wasn't good enough ever to catch them.
But we didn't want to cut off any more interesting gameplay than we had to. Jokeying for position before really trying to open the gates can be interesting, so left that period of time with an indeterminate length. It's possible for Survivors to mess around at that point, hence the Killer can open a gate to force a close to the match if they want.
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The whole point of EGC is to have the game end and to prevent holding the game hostage, NOT to pressure survivors.
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How do survivor prevent a killer from startig it? They have control you say, so how do they do it?
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Because killers arent going to open it except in very niche situations.
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just curious as to why the survivors are in control of the EGC at that point. Im sure the killer wants a chance to win as well. I dont see why the survivors are given the option to "mess around" the end game should be stressful for survivors just as the early middle and end are stressful for killers
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Now they can camp at the gates but with 99% gate power 🤷🏻♂️
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The Killer can open a gate.
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If there wasn't the chance that someone could get downed and need saved, that would be fine, but it doesn't work that way. EGC is killer-sided enough as it is, so best to just get over it honestly.
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The point is not everything is intended as a tool for The Killer. The EGC already heavily favors The Killer anyway. Now people want the two min timer to start at the completion of the final gen? lol Just open the gate if you're in a hurry. I just wonder where are all these toxic SWF groups people here are always dealing with? Knock on wood I never run into these type of people on PS4.
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because it is not ment to give the killer an advantage over the survivors, but instead force the trial to an end.
if you dont want to play anymore, open the gate and the timer will immediately start.
the only reason as to why the Endgame Collapse is active after the hatch is shut is, because the killer is supposed to have an advantage, as they already denied two escape routes.
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The problem with EGC as it stands is that doesn't actually force the game to end because they can just 99 the gate and bypass the need to end the game. I think the gate should just decay if left unopened this would force survivors to actually open the gate and leave.
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Because end game takes time. EGC starting when the last gen is done would mean EGC would need a far longer timer to be remotely fair. No one would want a 10 minute timer when the survivors all immediately open the door and then just hang out because their timer is extended. That would be like old dbd. Its whole purpose is to get ppl off the map once they are clear to get out. Not serve as a killer's advantage to kill people...even tho it already works that way anyway.
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Depending on how the devs want to handle this out would either make blood warden op or useless and in med of a rework
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You do realize for the killer to do this he has to lose all pressure including leaving any downed/hooked survivors. Besides wasn't the entire point of the killer opening the gate for them to effectively surrender not for them to force the timer to start?
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Im not gunna read every post or put too much thought into this but, If I could change something then I’d like amplify the idea of killer concession. If all survivors are either A) Escaped, B) Dead or C) have passed the Gates, then the timer should amplify to like double the time. What I’m trying to politely say is, LEAVE!
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But that has nothing to do with "the survivors control it". Its wrong, simple as that.
That said, if i play killer and i got one done with all gens done and my noed is still up, i hook him, then open the gates (or open first and hook him then, if i have blood warden.) It shortens the time the survivors have to find noed and then rescue their mate. Yes, it depends on the actual game situation, but i think it should.
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Except, the game can still be taken hostage. Survivors can simply prolong finishing the last gen, and the Killer cannot repair that gen. EGC's not even doing its job.
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I have 2 simple ideas, either one of them should work:
1. EGC starts right after 5 Gen done, counter increased to 3min (slowdowned to 6min if a survivor on dying/hooked)
2. Gate gets regressed if not complete opening. Force 1 survivor to stand at the gate ready for 99%. Or all survivor go save with the risk of the gate not already open.
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I'v already gone over why this is a bad and heavily counter productive idea.
It's basically a concede button for the killer. As going to a gate to open it for the survivors usually means letting anyone you have hooked get saved and now having to guard an already open gate.
I understand that the EGC was intended to stop infinite games and not favor the killer. But dbd has a big issue with snowballing objectives and making the EGC start when the last gen is popped will help games be slightly less 1-sided. Not to mention making the end game actually engaging for players and not just a tedious camp-off.
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That may be true, but its not what were discussing. The topic is about EGC, not hostage situations.
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Tbh weather I give up or what once egc is started surivors have only ever used it to tbag at the gate for minutes after minutes anyway.
Even when I'm hiding on wraith and never even seen them all match they won't just walk out they wait till the last second.
So in my experience the timer is entirely too long for what essentially is a the bell for the game to be over.
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