Idea for SWF groups in favor of the killer.
Most SWF, even if toxic or not, are normally try hards and giving them the same resources (perks, item slot...) as solo survivors can increase their toxicity, and I thought their comunacation was more valuable than anything else.
How about when playing survive with friends the members of the group lost the ability to have one or two perks? Something like that.
LISTEN: THIS IS AN IDEA, NOT A RAGE OR VIOLENT DISCUSSION POST, PLEASE DON'T EXAGGERATE THE ANSWERS.
Comments
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No. Nerfing SWF will not work, you need to buff solos and then either buff killers or nerf survivors on the whole.
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This will not work.
The only way to fix SWF, is to buff solos with more information. Make it so all survivors see the aura of all other survivors all the time, make kindred a baseline perk. Give a totem counter etc. Then you buff killers to compensate.
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That's the easy fix. Lose a perk slot for each additional party member. Comms is an advantage but an inevitable one; that doesn't mean they should have 16 perk slots to share between them.
People say this is a bad idea and it'll won't work but never why.
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I can't believe how many people buy into this utter nonsense of "nerfing the overpowered system won't work". That's one of the most direct paths towards balance and saying it won't work is utterly ridiculous. The real issue comes from the fact that most suggested nerfs would end up affecting solo players as well as swf players. However, you can definitely nerf swf themselves in order to help balance the game and very well should.
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As someone who when they play survivor mainly plays solo, solo survivor doesn't need a buff. You don't need communication to know if you're not being chased you should be working on a generator.
When it comes to unhooking in solos it's all about game sense, if there's a healthy survivor and the rest are injured they should be the ones going for the save. If I'm on the other side of the map doing a generator I shouldn't be the one going for the save.
The biggest issue with solo is you often get team mates that don't belong in red ranks, this has increased since the current rank reset system was implemented. The best way to buff solo survivors is to bring back the old rank reset system.
Personally I think SWF shouldn't be able to use OoO and maybe DS. That's how I would nerf SWF, by locking certain perks.
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Did you play before SWF was a thing? Survivors were dodging lobbies all the time until they could get into one with their friends, increasing queue times for everyone. Believe me when I say that many would do this just to avoid the penalty.
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What if I'm just inviting friends to play but we're not using comms? That's almost like solo q.
Solos needs to get buffs to be on pair with SWF on comms to get rid of the disparities before touching balance even more
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Denying comms in some way would help out dramatically imo. Then they would only have to rely on what they are seeing on screen and not their buddy saying the killer is over here so you guys are good to do such and such gens.
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How would you deny comms given that smartphones are a thing?
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Because its a fundamental game design problem. The problem with SWF is they have communication, you can't fix that. Its not quantifiable. How many perks is that communication worth? By my count, its about 13. So should they just not be allowed any perks? If so, what do you do about the other 9 free perks they get? You could make them move slower, or make gens take longer, but but what percentage. How do you calculate what you need to do to fix the problem? Also, anything you do to buff killers to deal with SWF hurts solos.
The best solution is to buff ALL survivors so that using discord is not a massive benefit over solo survivors, then buff killers to compensate. So much of the fundamental design of the game is based on information. Look at how many survivor perks do nothing but provide information about what other survivors are doing or seeing.
And if you go about "nerfing" SWF, then all it does is make people not want to play with their friends. The reality is, not every SWF group is a depip kill squad. When i play with my friends, they are terrible at this game and can't run the killer for more than 10 seconds. But i still play with them because it is fun.
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Right, the primary draw for SWF is playing with their friends. They'd play even if they didn't have the full arsenal of perk slots available - and actually may even enjoy it more because there's a deeper strategic element. Instead of having a glut of perk slots to share so each member is essentially an 8 perk special forces warrior they'd have to consider the perk distribution carefully along with the relative strengths and weaknesses of their individual members. Besides, perks aren't as vital to survivors anyway - comms is a much bigger advantage than any perk build.
You might see some tryhard groups dodging lobbies and eating penalties to go all super delta force, but I'm pretty sure that'd be the minority of swf groups, who are apparently (according to the devs) not as common as people think anyway.
Yes, you could buff both solo queue survivors and killers but that's so much more hideously complicated and liable to break the game.
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I actually did play before SWF was a thing so I know full well that argument is just some bs that Peanits likes to spit out. That had a minor effect on queue times. Why don't you go ahead and throw out the how rare swf groups are statistic is as well. It's the other big "swf doesn't need to be worked on" argument that directly contradicts this one. The majority of people who wanted to play together before SWF was a thing played KYF. The amount of people who wanted to play together that dodged lobbies was small enough that it wasn't much a burden on queue times. Not to mention, that was back before they had the dedicated server lobbies they have now that would further make it less impactful on queue times. In addition, the amount of people who would keep doding instead of queueing up as SWF would be even smaller than what happened before SWF was introduced. This argument is so overwhelmingly flawed that I'm surprised anybody gives it any credibility. It's just a desperate last ditch effort of an excuse for not nerfing SWF.
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Dude, I wholly recognize that the gap between SWF and solo needs to be worked on. I also wouldn't say that SWF groups are rare because that's just plain false; there's some form of SWF in 70% of all lobbies or something along those lines. I just disagree that a direct nerf to SWF is the right course of action. That's it.
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"Most SWF's are normally tryhards". You sound like the killer who says "nice SWF" every time they lose a game. Try hard teams are a VERY small portion of SWF's. MOST OF THEM. As in 99% OF THEM are just shooting the ######### with their friends. Get over yourself.
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Not gonna lie when I first read the title.I thought this was going to be a delusional entitled killer main with their first and last post.Demanding that survivors who are in swf Groups be put to an end.
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Put me in the ‘things are fine how they are’ bucket.
Some players have mastered the game and make few mistakes. That’s the real complaint behind SWFs. Most SWFs are not good players and that’s why statistically they don’t perform much better then solos.
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So what's the big deal if they don't have all the perk slots that solo queue survivors have?
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The big deal is, YOU CAN NOT punish people for playing with their friends based on a SMALL segment of the community who craps on killers because they have comms. It's common sense, it's been discussed to death over the years, and somehow, some way, you still can't grasp that.
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I wouldn't suggest removing perks myself. Maybe disabling certain perks like OoO. I'm thinking stuff more along these lines:
- SWF groups can only bring one of each item type
- SWF can only use items/addons of a maximum rarity depending on how many members are in the group
- SWF groups have extra objectives they need to do after generators while solo players can just escape
- SWF groups get certain parts of their loadout randomized by the entity depending on how big the group is
- SWF members can't switch their loadout once they're in match lobby, only cosmetics. Loadouts must be set prior to loading into match lobby.
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Right, but that's still punishing people for playing with their friends. The best and most fair way to fix this for everyone is to buff solos and killers to the level of SWF kill squads with coms. And the way you close that gap is by buffing solos to have more information without having to use perks, and then buffing killers to compensate for that.
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I guess I don't see it as punishment, that's all. You get the benefit of the strongest "perk" in the game in return for a couple of in game slots, depending on how big your group is. You'd still have a full build, it would just be spread out between your party members. You just wouldn't have the reward of having 6-10 perks per player anymore.
Even if your friends are awful and the swf is just a casual goof off, you're still benefiting and performing far better than a normal group of solos at comparable skill trying to do the same thing. It's always the biggest advantage a group of survivors can have, no matter how you're approaching the game.
I suppose they've already been super OP for forever and people are used to it. Of course... everybody already knows this... so I don't know how or why anyone would take it as a punishment and not a long needed correction.
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Skill has nothing to do with it. DBD is a party game. MOST SWF's treat it like a party game. If you can't beat an SWF who is clearly just having fun, I'd say it's a you issue, not an SWF issue.
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Balancing the game is not "punishing people for playing with their friends". That's some bs people spit out cause they don't understand that you can't just have everything. Nerfing Legion wasn't "punishing people for playing Legion". Nerfing the Nurse wasn't "punishing people for playing Nurse". Nerfing Mettle of Man wasn't "punishing people for playing with MoM". Nerfing swf is just helping to balance the game. This whole "punishing people for playing with friends" bs is just entitled nonsense.
Sure you could buff solos and killers, but let's face reality. Nurse got nerfed. Spirit got nerfed. Billy is on the chopping block. Suggestions for totem counters, HUD icons displaying extra survivor statuses like being chased, and in game voice chat options are being ignored left, right, and center. Anybody who's got a grasp on reality realizes which route they're definitely not going.
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That's not how things work, when you queue with friends you are matched with the same people that are solo against the same killers, you are actively punishing people. Nerfing a killer or something is a false equivalence and a logical fallacy.
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How could the devs even accomplish this, if they wanted to? Dunno about other platforms, but on Xbox the chat party is entirely separate from any game, and a few years back I believe Microsoft mandated any game they accept cannot interfere with the party chats in any way.
We can even be playing different games or none, party is up. Likely to be the same on the upcoming Series X.
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I've always found that if you know what is going to happen, then you can count on it. Just played a match with SWF, I used ruin and surveillance, with the third seal, and thrill of the hunt. Dear lord, blindness on all 4 survs is amazing. I could imagine the chatter when I saw people running. "I got hooked in the corner Jerry, hurry and save me!". "There's 6 corners at Lery's institute derrick!"
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...There's a few ways to interpret this and all of them are faulty in some sense.
I seriously hope you're not suggesting that swf is just people playing solo now playing together. This would be so erroneous I don't think there would be any logic in talking to you.
Another possibility is that you're suggesting that the solo players that get matched up with swf groups would get punished for nerfs to swf which would be blatantly ignoring my previous posts which clearly outlined that you don't have to do that. There's no false equivalency or logical fallacy except those you're intentionally making by ignoring exactly what I've been saying.
The final possibility is that you're saying having swf in the game punishes solo players cause of the way swf players in general play, and making things harder on swf players would make things harder on these solo players. This would be the most logical argument for buffing killers and solo players while ignoring swf, but I personally don't believe this to be true. I mostly play survivor solo and there have been some games that I obviously got matched with an swf group and some games where I was obviously with solo players. The chances of escaping or pipping don't change too drastically and actually seem to be slightly higher with an swf group.
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