http://dbd.game/killswitch
Don't buff PH until you start seeing good players as him
Seriously, I think he has the potential to be a beast in the right hands, similarly to other killers. Devs, wait on the buffs, I bet some god tier PH's will come soon.
Comments
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@DudeDelicious is what I'd class a god-tier clown but I'd still say to buff him.
It doesn't matter if some amazing people show up, a weak killer will always be weak. Imagine someone who's invested the time into PH to get that good put that time into Billy, huntress, nurse, spirit, or freddy. They'd practically never lose (with the exception of huntress because maps). A couple amazing players doesn't stop him being weak if you can't play him.
Please, BHVR, don't act on an impulse and nerf, but also don't put buffs off the table either.
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Agree
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The issue is his line attack has a heavy miss penalty but is extremely telegraphed and hard to hit if the survivor knows what to look for, plus the cages while helpful have a hard time seeing proper use against good teams because you dont have the time to try and force it
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I agree, some players easily say that PH is weak etc when very few of us actually play him really well. Once people get really good with him, he'll be fine.
When Deathslinger came out I was asking in feedback section for a few buffs to make him stronger but once I got better with him, I then saw how brokenly oppressive he would be if they actually buffed him like I suggested. It's very easy to judge killers based on first impressions and I'm happy that devs don't do that anymore.
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Iv been thinking. Is PH another Nurse? A Killer that can be damned good if the player is skilled, but also a Killer that is very weak in the hands of a random Joe.
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That could be the case, yeah, but nurse will always be infinitely stronger because Pyramid head reaches 8m on default, nurse can go 20m then 12m on default. 4* the distance.
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That's been my conclusion on it. I've faced some pretty good ones (survivor main for this month because of all the killer bugs) and I literally felt helpless in a chase, the most I could do was aggressively pressure gens (which actually worked since he didn't have Pop lol). Even they weren't close to the potential PH could have though.
Buffing him before knowing his true potential could break him completely. If the devs wait on it, we'll see how good he is.
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Agreed, but how can you tell he's weak THIS early though? I think we should at least wait until the mid chapter patch before even considering buffs.
True on the Spirit thing btw, I used to never lose as her (some survivors I faced called me 'god tier'), but to get to that level takes literally playing that one killer everyday for a while. Now when I play her, my level is only 'good' because I took a break for 6 months lol.
The problem with PH is that he can be another Nurse or Spirit if the devs buff him, where he's literally unbeatable, or he could be as bad as old Hag was. It's very early to say this, but I'm pretty sure he'll need a rework if they will want to change him. His 115% speed and the nature of his power makes him very difficult to balance, since he could be too strong if the devs mess up with balancing him.
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The only changes I want to him is that we should at least get stacks of BBQ from cages, aura reading would be nice, but it isn't essential. Also, his movements are very wonky when using his power.
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Honestly, from what I've read from your understanding of Clown, you probably are. Obviously, I've never seen you play, but when someone understands a killer that well, they're usually excellent at playing them.
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I'm still lost on how people consider him to be a weaker killer. Once again, I think people are still too excited to play as him and just spamming his powers.
He's definitely anti-loop. You bait your power, they panic and leave. For example, a survivor was standing in front of the pallet. I fake my power so they didn't drop the pallet. And I hit them lol
Strategic killers always get complained about such as Spirit, Nurse, Huntress, and Death-slinger. Pyramid Head may not exactly have mobility but he could end a chase quite quickly if you use him right.
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Sure I guess
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I think the problem is that barring certain scenarios where a Survivor is locked in an animation, no matter how well you bait and whatnot, it all depends on if the Survivor screws it up. The reward doesn't come from Pyramid Head playing it correctly; it comes from the Survivor playing it wrong. If they don't play it wrong, you're at a disadvantage.
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All he really needs IMO is better turning radius when using rites and punishment should inflict torment if your hit with it. Also, w his perk, get rid of that stupid yellow gen when he kicks it to go oblivious. Why is that a thing?
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I played Clown the other day, he's actually amazing at stopping loops after the buff. He also somewhat counters DS. With Pop or Ruin, he turns excellent. (No addons btw)
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You're worried about buffing him too early when he may not need it. Why is this even a worry? When was the last time something was over buffed by accident for killers on live servers? The answer is never.
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Ghostface? Wasn't he nerfed soon after? (although I never found him OP, it was evident that the community did) Spirit is another one that comes to mind, Prayer Beads was ridiculously strong until they finally nerfed it. Buffing him too early could literally lead to a ridiculously strong killer.
He already has a lot of potential, waiting on it is the best thing to do. Plus, everytime a killer comes out, people scream weak or too strong, even if the killers are balanced. Just look at Deathslinger, people found him ridiculously weak when he's actually in a solid spot. Oni got butchered because people found him too strong after release, only for the devs to revert it.
Wait on PH, there's no point in buffing him after what, 3 days of release?
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Nurse has longer reach, but her default speed means she has nothing to fall back on if/when her power fails. Nurse is still Nurse though.
PH though. He has so much more to work with. 115% for fundamentals, mind games from baiting/committing trenches, the ability to nearly bypass ALL pallets/windows with a ranged attack, game stall from placing trenches in choke points, and finally PH simply saves upwards of 20 seconds for EACH time he places someone in a cage WHILE being immune to the vast majority of counters Survivors have.
Maybe I should get back to recording my gameplay again. Then Id have examples of my points instead of attempting (failing) to type them out. In what gameplay Iv seen from others so far it just feels totally wrong or idiotic to me. Over using his powers to the point of spending more time than it saves. Wasting entire power bars at a time to dig 1 trench and taking odd paths to do so, going for so many risky ranged attacks, instantly putting someone into a cage for a slight early game lead at the cost of mid/late game advantages, and more.
Think I'll do just that. Can't do any harm at least, outside outing myself as an idiot that is.
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Nah from your understqanding & tips I'd definitely call you god-tier, particularly since you're on console.
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"Ghostface? Wasn't he nerfed soon after? (although I never found him OP, it was evident that the community did) Spirit is another one that comes to mind, Prayer Beads was ridiculously strong until they finally nerfed it."
No, he wasn't nerfed right after. Also, whether the community "thinks" they are OP is irrelevant, what matters is if they are actually OP. The vast majority of the community are extremely casual and don't actually know.
Spirit did not get over buffed on live servers. Prayer beads was strong, not OP. It was now over nerfed into crap also, which is why no one uses it at all anymore. It also didn't get over buffed on her release like this post is about, it made it into release exactly how it was during PTB and remained that way for years as no one really had an issue with it till recently. This is also just an addon, not the actual killer.
"Buffing him too early could lead to a ridiculously strong killer"
So what's the issue with that? The vast majority of killers are quite weak. Killers are supposed to be strong.
My point is you're worrying about something that has never actually happened...so why worry about it? Doesn't really make sense.
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That's why most my changes I want for PH don't really negate the strength of the survivor loops since as you said, it's all they have.
I was mainly wanting improvements on applying Torment and recovery time on his ranged attack. IE making him more time efficient but not more deadly.
I agree on your points about his power.
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Survivor being locked in animation is not the only advantage of using his power. His power is all on perfect timing and the reward is great. There are plenty of times where I caught survivors on the other side of the wall. I do it most of the time through loop shacks or any one that has a wall.
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No. It's similar but no.
With Nurse you must use your power and correctly or you will fail. PH can use his power wrong and still win because it can still lands hits or he can just m1 at the worst.
He also does not have the same capability as Nurse does. If you're amazing most every blink can be a hit. With PH every PotD does not have a chance of hitting due to range, time to attack, and the stun.
He's definitely a tier or 2 lower than her.
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Even if you do do that sick prediction around a corner or through a wall, it still hinges on the Survivor messing it up. There's still a very clear noise that lets a Survivor know that PH can fire a projectile, and there's a big red carpet that's unfurled onto the floor just before the attack is launched so the Survivor knows where to steer clear of. If they react correctly, they can still just avoid it.
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It could happen though, and that's not healthy for the game. There's always a chance it could, and with killers like PH or heck, even Nurse, it's very easy to make them busted and just remove all counterplay the survivors ever have, so it's worth being cautious when balancing them. Which is why I made this thread.
Now I can actually agree on that, but again, you don't want to improve his cooldown too much otherwise he can just spam his ranged attack. I personally would actually buff his Torment ONLY, but only make his ranged attack animations more smooth for both sides, so they get proper feedback when he uses his power and the PH can actually control it properly.
I think if the devs were to smooth out the animation, perhaps give it a tiny buff here and there, and remove the bugs, it'd probably be a really handy ability for zoning, but I'm still willing to wait on it for now.
The Torment trail though, that definitely needs changes. Survivors aren't punished much for stepping into it. Some kind of debuff could go a long way to making it a real threat.
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Clown is so satisfying to play lol. Plus with STBFL, he can become a BEAST at any loop. I'd say he's the strongest anti-loop killer as of right now, since survivors can still do something against every other killer, but against Clown, you can't really do much if they're smart.
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I honestly don't know why it doesn't slow survivors. It doesn't need to be much but if they only threat is cages and Killer Instinct there's literally no reason not to run through it during a chase because you could loop him for 5 gens without downside if he can't hit you. Trails are virtually worthless if you're not focusing on cages.
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"it's very easy to make them busted and just remove all counterplay the survivors ever have"
That just feels like an extremely far jump.
Saying he could use some buffs doesn't jump him to removing all counterplay and being busted. They'd have to make insane changes to go that far, and like I said it hasn't happened yet in the past. The vast majority of killers get released in an underwhelming state and remain there for a couple years till the devs realize how weak they are and we get a rework like what's happening now for quite a few killers.
They simply don't buff killers in the way your'e worried about is all I'm saying.
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Yeah, maybe if survivors step on it they get slowed down. It could be interesting, and it would make sense. But it could also be busted because it would give him quite a lot more anti-loop ability if there's slowdown. I was thinking something more along the lines of maybe blindness for the duration that you're in the Tormented effect. It covers all auras aside from survivors in the cage? It'd be pretty interesting imo, and could make him a beast at slugging. I think it's a fair debuff considering how easy it is to avoid his little trails.
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I see where you are going with this as far as things depending on the survivor mistake. My only question for you now is what is your idea solution to make him a better killer in that regards. Survivors not knowing where the attack is coming from would be broken.
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Fair enough, but you never know with the devs so it's always worth thinking about the possibility.
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I think the simplest thing to do to start with would be to remove the red carpet, as I think it telegraphs the attack a bit too much. I think from there, we can see where things might need further adjustment (if any).
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That's not true at all. Spirit's phase noise on PTB was directional, so she was super easy to play around. Everyone complained she was bad, so she got buffed when she hit live.
And PH just kinda feels like Deathslinger part 2. Same zoning tactics, same faking of ranged power to force survivors to juke. Both are generally regarded as weak, despite being extremely strong in the right hands. Totally agree with OP, we need to wait.
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tl:dr. Also don't NERF him until we can see what people can do with him. We don't need another Freddy release.
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I reaaaally don't think he needs any kind of buff atm.. I agree with OP, he seems like he can be very good with the right perks, especially with some of his nutty add ons.
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"That's not true at all. Spirit's phase noise on PTB was directional, so she was super easy to play around. Everyone complained she was bad, so she got buffed when she hit live."
You are misunderstanding what I typed. I said buffed after going live, not coming out of PTB.
We are also talking about being over buffed, of which Spirit was not.
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in that sense he's kinda like Demo, insanely strong in the right hands (like moi #humblebrag) but kinda meh if you don't learn the intricacies
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I really like his current state. He got a high skillcap, maybe comparable to ghostface skillcap.
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Yeah I could see removing the red stain and heartbeat for stepping in it for like 15 seconds. That would actually make you think twice about running through it but wouldn't hard-remove the option either.
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Why should BHVR buff Triangelface? There is absolutely no reason to do so.
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