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Does Borrowed Time Need A Nerf?
I was in a match where the same survivor unhooked with Borrowed Time twice within 30 seconds a bit ago, which made me wonder: Should the perk have a cooldown like most similar perks do? I just want to share my thoughts on this.
As far as the situation goes, leaving it as-is gives the option of free unhooks in tight situations, repeatedly. In my match, the first trigger of it happened by mistake, I was aiming for the unhooking survivor. (Unhooker had a crown, hooked didn't, I'm prioritizing killing crowned survivors.) Second time, the unhooked had a crown as well, and I decided to try to re-down them. Exit gate was open and unhooker didn't have damage because of the previous miss. I figured maybe I could reel them in during BT as Deathslinger. That didn't pan out, I missed my shot, but that's on me.
On the other hand, putting a cooldown in wouldn't do much overall. This was an odd situation, where two survivors were hooked close together after one tried to save the other and failed. How often will the same survivor unhooked twice in even 30 seconds? Plus, it's blatantly an anti-tunnel perk. Tunneling is decidedly an unfun way to play on all sides, and kinda cheap. Only even useful in limited circumstances. So that's a major point toward keeping it as-is.
Thoughts from killers and survivors would be nice on this one.
Comments
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This perk and ds are mostly fine as they are now, but when you combine the two its not very fair at all.
7 -
A small cooldown might be justified. For example, it's pretty BS that a Survivor can run into the basement and give multiple Survivors immunity for 15 seconds each.
3 -
borrowed time is only op for tuneling or camping killers
20 -
You don't need to worry about BT if everyone plays PH.
5 -
Cool, then you don't have a problem if BT doesn't trigger off of protection hits then? Since it's only a tunneling counter measure for you.
3 -
OR maybe make bt only work of the hooked person is using the perk so he doesn't need to rely on the unhooker,
2 -
It only works if you are within the terror radius of the killer so it already have a huge drawback. You just have to play accordingly like we do when you use something like noed or bbq.
4 -
Do you know what's unfair lol ? Getting face camp, tunnel and slug during the Fourth anniversary event to have points lol
6 -
In certain situations it is strong much like other things that make killers strong in situations. So I think for me it is balanced.
If I am the killer and someone unhooks one my face they are trading hooks because I am not going to go for the unhooked person, they can try to take a hit and all I need to do is wait 15 seconds for them to go down again.
4 -
It could use a nerf, maybe we can make the deep wound effect harsher
*Shifty Legion main eyes*
1 -
Your best bet is to go for the survivor who is making saves. Just always assume that the unhooked survivor either has BT or DS. If you're lucky they'll waste time healing before they do anything productive.
2 -
I remember when bt would apply to both the hooked survivor and the rescuer. I feel bt is fine. I think the issue is people make unsafe hooks because of bt.
1 -
The problem is that survivors abuse broken perks like there's no tomorrow, the BT guy will often bodyblock for the unhooker.
0 -
Maybe 10 seconds? Would only impact the basement that way, making that location stronger.
I would agree that the situational nature helps balance the perk.
That should definitely be a change. Sure, give protection, but if they take a hit with or without it, don't count it as a safe hook rescue.
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Ehh we already got a counter to the forced bt hit with forced penance will make sure the unhooked player can’t go heal and might make them avoid taking hits again in case you do decide to try and tunnel them
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I think it needs a buff if anything. I think you should just get it no matter what when you get off the hook if someone has it equipped. 15 seconds isn't that long and won't be needed if the killer isn't hovering nearby. But then it will actually work against camping stealth killers, Freddy, and 16m terror radius killers who beeline back to the hook but don't actually proc it.
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I think it's fine. It only works if the killer is close to the hook. Tunneling is a problem. Your best bet is getting rid of the guy with BT. When killers realize I have BT, they make sure to take me out of the game as fast as possible so they wont have to worry about BT at endgame, which is arguably when it's most powerful at securing escapes. Ez tunnel game for them after that. Unless everyone has it then that's just how it is. Lol it's a neccessary perk in the current state of the game.
1 -
So, what happens when I just hook somebody, and don't even have time to leave the area before *SOUND NOTIFICATION* of an unhook, where the now BT protected survivor will body block the narrow space, guarding their savior. Or they'll proceed to chase me as I chase their savior, knowing they have 20 seconds of invulnerability to hamper my progress, be it body blocking, standing in a narrow space which forces me to go around, or camping a pallet. This is normal play here, not a rare occurrence.
BT is not okay. It allows for very stupid plays, because those plays are safe.
If anything, BT should have tickets, or tokens. Certain actions, say healing for instance, would give tokens. One would need to be expended when going for the unhook while in a terror radius. Damage to a BT survivor should be reflected onto the savior, or at least a debuff of some kind. BT should not be a 'get out of jail free' card as it is now. It needs some kind of risk involved, to cultivate a more cautious and thought out playstyle around it.
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In those cases, you need to hit the unhooker and go AROUND/ignore the unhooked guy with BT.
1 -
I clearly said 'where the BT protected survivor will body block.' Killers are on the clock. Every second wasted is crucial. Yes, you can go around, but you waste time doing so, time you may not have to waste. When a BT survivor can stop a killer, because they know they're invulnerable, there is a problem.
Hitting the BT survivor, again, wastes time. Those three seconds allow the savior time to get to a loop, or jungle gym, or pallet, etc. So, now you sent the BT survivor off to safety, and the savior just escaped. Simply because a perk allows it. That is not okay.
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This brings up another point. Body blocking by survivors needs to change. The killer shouldn't be able to be obstructed. Perhaps slightly slowed, but they should be able to push pussy survivors without having to attack them, either by clipping through them after a second of pushing or by pushing them aside.
2 -
Make it once per match
Dead hard once per match
Pop once per match but maybe 100% regress
BBQ only first hook
Lol nerf all op
0 -
Instead of just blocking the hit, it should transfer the hit to the rescuer.
This preserves its purpose of preventing someone from getting tunneled off the hook while also having a cost and asking for a skillful play from the rescuer.
It's currently zero cost, with a game swinging effect, that asks nothing of the survivor.
2 -
I honestly run both DS and BT as a precaution for both me and my teammates. You never know how the killer is going to play or if they other survivor(s) are running DS also, so I like to cover all bases to make sure I don't accidentally get someone farmed and BT in EGC is *extremely* good to have.
I personally wouldn't run these as often as I do if I didn't run into SO many situations where one, the other, or both come in handy. I wish I could have fun with other builds, but the moment I go with something like Spine Chill/Resilience, a healing build, or anything fun to toy with, I get reminded very quickly why I run these two perks.
0 -
One could say the same thing about iridescent head and infantry belt. Alone each one is fine, together it's ridiculous.
1 -
That's not true. Have you played against rank 1 teams who've figured him out yet? It's a straight nightmare. His ranged attack shouldn't have that ridiculous red line before the tremor. Idk what they were thinking with that
0 -
You understand that when you click on "play survivor" that you're willingly signing up to play the victim role right? I feel like survivors are extremely entitled in this game. You expect the killer to be nice to you?
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This is one of the problems I have with the survivor meta. Stacked second chance perks with little to no risk involved.
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BT was already nerfed, it doesn’t need another one.
Also there’s plenty of counters to it. Stealth Killers, Insidious, Tinkerer, Freddy, list goes on
1 -
As long camping is a thing in this game BT will be fine. Remove campers then you can remove BT. Thats the solution i guess.
2 -
Or for killers that aren’t stupid and see a survivor running to a hook... or when survivors straight up hook bombs... Or to get a free escape in the endgame... but yeah let’s just forget those instances.
Either way I’m not entirely sure how you can nerf BT so that it would only affect the braindead facecampers. I do understand that having an option to combat actual campers is somewhat necessary when keeping game balance and the survivors fun in mind so I’m split on the idea.
^
This is actually by far one of the best suggestions I’ve seen regarding the issue. Unlike other second chance perks like Deliverance or Blood Warden you don’t have to earn it, but you would still need to be skillful when using the perk. The 2nd chance isn’t something that’s just given without risk and requires actual skill. In the meantime the recently unhooked person still gets protected. I like that.
1 -
I don't think its that bad. A delay would be nice but really if you have so much pressure that multiple people are getting BT at once having them mend is also a good alternative.
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I would just like to see these second chance perks require some input from the survivor beyond just choosing to run them in the lobby, as for the most part they passively invalidate a killer's actual actions. It should not require absolutely zero effort to obtain such a massive in-the-moment "outplay."
DH is an example of these kinds of perks done right - the survivor has to pay attention and time it well. It's not just a passive grace period that rewards poor survivor decision-making more than anything else. I can say that as a killer who never enters a match meaning to camp/tunnel/slug that survivors running these passive invulnerability/second-chance perks almost always engage in the kind of risky plays that virtually require me to pay more attention to hooked survivors than I would normally want/intend to.
1 -
Borrowed Time is fine as is. If they are going for such unsafe hooks you'll get a free trade every time. Down the BT person, hit the hooked person for the Deep Wounds, and boom you've made massive pressure for the survivors.
1 -
you acknowledge its an anti-tunnel perk... simple solution don't tunnel people.
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The problem is that it generally puts the responsibility for the consequence of poor survivor play on the killer's shoulders rather than punishing tunneling. Survivor runs up to a hook that the killer just left and farms his teammate. No biggie, you're both two hit downs now, and probably stacking other second chances on top.
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Bt could be fine if the survivor could not use the perk when they get chase by the killer
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I rarely see BT used well...
Most times I just see people using it to farm guaranteed safe unhooks.
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Its not because survivor can use BT, DS, DH and unbreakable they are invicible an afk wraith can make the survivor depip every match
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That's tough lol. It already got a nerf it doesn't need another one, BT is fine the way it is . It is one of the very few camping/tunneling perks. Its balanced.
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How was it nerfed? I'm actually not sure. All I know is the rework. It used to only work once per trial and gave both the hooked survivor and the one unhooking BT.
If I remember correctly, you couldn't mend it back then? Which if so, that is why it was called Borrowed Time, it was quite literally borrowed time. You got off the hook, had time to get away, and now you'll need to be picked back up from the other survivors or healed (if it could be healed?)
I could be wrong, though. What other changes were there?
0 -
Its already been nerfed once. Its absolutely fine the way it is.
0 -
Yeah because having to mend is better than having to heal. its common sense
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It's quite annoying when there's multiple people running it (like DS) but (also like DS) I think its effect is fine, but its conditions just need to be changed. It requires you to be within terror radius, but there's several killers that can take advantage of this to just camp with no repercussions. At least somebody can hook trade against a Bubba, but how are you supposed to reliably get somebody off hook against, say, Wraith just standing there cloaked?
There's just certain situations that feel weird such as that one I named, or with Pig and how she can crouch to remove her terror radius. I think these two second chance perks really need to, like I said before, have their conditions changed around. At the very least, start classifying certain perks as "second chance" perks or whatever name would be appropriate (sort of like how certain perks exist in a sort of "exhaustion" category) and make it to where, like exhaustion perks, you can't stack them. Either that, or perhaps allow them to be stacked but make a hard limit on how many can be brought per person/per team. I don't know, anything to prevent these things from just being stacked together to the extreme, because at that point it's too overwhelming for certain killers unless you're deciding to run a mori, which everybody always hates going against. I don't think the solution should have to be just running a mori every game and eliminating one or more people right away just to slow the game down.
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doesnt change the fact that it's abused beyond what the devs intended, as always.
0 -
Old BT was more fair than the new one. Change my mind.
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-Stealth killers / Freddy
Any argument requiring specific killers to counter a perk is automatically invalid. Any potential fix MUST apply to all characters.
-Tinkerer
Too limited to be useful for BT
-Insidious
Garbage perk, shouldn't run it just for BT
Try again. What are the others in this list you mentioned?
0
