Survivors are OP. Killers aren't.
This is a statement i've been hearing a lot. Survivor have been nerfed multiple times (maps included), and usually killers complains of DS, SWF, BT, BL, and all kind of initials. For me survivors now are on a rough place. Killers have a lot of perks that are game changing, don't mean those are OP, but they change so much the pacing of the trial. Instead survivors have no counter play at all, a lot of perks can counter killer but you are always flipping a coin if those are going to work. Killers are always on the offensive side, so they can go whatever they want. Survivors need to choose perks that can work early, mid and end game. Or cover a lot of tasks.
Survivors task are simple: Do gens, help teammates, waste killers time. Always will be a survivor that knows how to juke, mindgame, and waste killer's time, that's why they are higher rank. Like always will be a killer that knows how to pressure the map. But as some killers just complain about how DS is annoying, or that survivor gen rush every single time. This things are entirely faults of the killer. Like i've said before, killers control the pace of the trial, they can counter a lot of the survivors perks and strategies. If you get DS is like "ok, ill chase you again" or maybe you should wait and sludge or just bait him by picking him up and down.
Survivors would never control the pace of the trials, and if they do, is because killers are let them do it.
Now SWF is a weird place. For starter i'll like to say that this game let's you invite people. So is not a crime to play together, that would be a better experience either you win or lose. The problem is that this shows how powerful survivors can really be if they are coordinated. But that's something the killer should expect ALWAYS. A coordinated team. No need to be mad against players who are enjoyning the game with friends or introducing new ones to the community. If you have a feeling is a SWF, then go and tryhard a little.
Something i'll like to mention also is camping. After all what i've been trying to explain about how killers control the pace, makes survivors adjust to his strategies and how game changing some perks are. I don't see the point on camping, and take this as a good thing. It is a strategy? Or is playing cheap? Face camping is a strategy also? You are risking gens just to let one survivor die, and i think every time i've tried to safe someone from camping was just for the good of that guy playing. No one likes to be targeted and been in a chase at the minute he left the hook. That's why a lot of players go for borrowed time, you never know if the next killer will be face camping someone just because he was looping right, or wasting your time when the other survivors did objectives. That's on you, not on him. It will be a stop for camping? Don't think so, is something that works because other survivors want to do what they have to, is a team after all.
Camping should be punished. I'm not talking about reports, it's stupid to report someone for taking advantage of that. But maybe by losing BP. When i want to get some easy BP i'll just queue killer do a challenge, make an offering and i'm good to go, 25k secure. Survivors getting camped get like 8k BP because someone was standing right next to him. I've played friendly killer and got more points than that. Make punishment for anti-fun actions. Add that to the emblems. If the killer stays on certain range from the hooked survivor make him lost BP, it's just for a good cause. Newer players don't need to suffer this anti fun mechanics, no one actually. And also, if you don't camp, and just go for every single survivor, you get more BP. Really don't know why there's people who still doing those things.
Survivors already lost a lot of points by don't doing certain tasks and sometimes there's no need for him to do it but the game will take away almost 6k for that. So i think it will be fair.
Tl;DR: Killers can control the pace and have more advantages over survivors. People just don't use them right. Camping should be at a cost of BP so they don't get rewarded by spoiling the fun to someone or whatever excuse you have.
Comments
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I agree, I don't play killer that much, but pretty often if I play I get 4k's it is really not that hard. And tbh I never had any problems with DS, I had some moments were I ate a borrower time, but that were moments were the survivors played it well. Of course I also lost pretty hard, especially against those cute swf, but even those matches were fun to play. I also don't understand those camping killers... I can't imagine it to be fun just to stand there and stare at the survivor. Maybe a mechanic that checks if the killer is near by to the hooked survivor than the timer of the hooked one is going back slower would also be an idea.
Post edited by FranzDerPalme on11 -
The fact that you think killers control the pace of this game shows how little you know about this game.
There are too many map resources and too little time for killer. You can have points for camping when survivors lose points for teabagging and flashlight clicking.
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lol
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Almost any perk has the potential to be game changing if the right circumstances are given
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For the case you dont know, camping is already punished with BP reduction. And a lot of killer perks have counters or counter themselves. For example trail of torment.
And yes certain perks you have to accept they are in the game with little counterplay but same can be said to the survivor perks. It is also important to know its 4 v 1 so if a survivor perk is the same power level of the killer then there is something wrong with the balance.
" Survivors never control the game only the Killers and basically of they do then its the Killers fault". Lmao no? Same can be said other wat around. The survivor controls the game and if they dont then its their fault.
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Play killer more then come back.
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Survivors average build is stronger than an average killer build but the killer has the potential to be much more op compared to survivors with certain add-ons and moris.
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- Pop
- Corrupt
- Almost any hex perk
- Im all ears
- STBFL
- Gen aura perks
Etc etc
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As usual, it's just dependent on SWF.
A full group of solo survivors? I'd say most matchups, it's balanced between killer and survivor.
A full group of SWF friends trying hard? Killer has effectively 0 chance, unless he's an extremely good Nurse / Spirit / Hag.
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"I don't play killer that much"
"I often get 4k's"
Thanks for confirming you're facing newbs. The fact is, you have no room to speak on this unless you DO play a both sides, as much as the other. Another fact is that the balance of the game shifts. When you're a newer killer facing equally new survivors, killer is easy as pie. The more experienced the survivors are, regardless of how experienced the killer is, the more control the survivors have. Period. End of story.
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Uh, Im not sure man, 20 seconds of gen regression can come in clutch in many cases, especially on 3 gen scenarios
Corrupt is a complete game changer for set up killers, and I, as a demo main, heavily rely on it to have a good set up of portals in my early game
STBFL and Im all ears help end chases in a blink.
Gen aura perks help you apply that extra map pressure and the information they give you can come in clutch.
Just covering your ears and saying "survivor perk opie, killer perks weak" does not lead to any good and fruitful argument
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I never said killer perks are OP, but saying their perks are not game changing (because I am a firm believer that every perk can be) is just a stretch, specially saying that survivor perks are.
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Killer is BY FAR the harder role to play. I consider myself a killer-main and yet I consistently make it into red ranks as a survivor whenever I do their missions. Meanwhile I'm struggling just to even make it into red ranks as a killer, the last time I did that was a year ago. It's truly absurd how easy it is for survivors to pip and escape.
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I disagree.
'Killers can control the pace and have more advantages over survivors.' This right here only applies to A) low ranks and B) weaker groups. Killers can only control the pace if they outmatch the survivor group by a fair margin, or if the group makes continuous mistakes.
In high ranks, where survivors 'usually' know how to loop, spread out gens, and effectively waste killer time? The roles are reversed. It's the killer that has to play by the pace of survivors, not the other way around. Just look at how fast early gens go. Two can pop before the second hook, easy, when against competent survivors. Killers are always working against the clock, which again, is set by survivors.
DS is complained about because it gives 60 seconds of hook immunity. I can go through a chase, hook somebody, break two pallets, PoP a gen, and pull a survivor out of a locker, and still get hit with DS. Outright tunneling? It's good for. But when it allows for objective progression with a safety net? That's the issue.
Face camping is a strategy. It's cheap, yes, but a strategy. Remember, killing is the objective of the killer. They're punished in points, but it is their objective. Though, I figure you don't play killer all that often, if you brought up 'they should be punished in BP.' They are.
Survivors earn less points in a trial because it's 4v1. Killer is the harder role, since you're juggling four people, their objective, and the time pressure placed on them.
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Not really, I am at rank 12 right now, as killer and I often get machtes with two red ranks one purple one and one green one, and I still can get the 4 k pretty easy, sometimes with just one gen done. And tbh, those matches are not really fun, they are boring, it is much more fun, if it is a close match, where you don't know if you will get any kills at all, where the survivors know what they are doing and not just run into every wall, or every little mindgame you make.
I am at Rank one Survivor and I know how hard it is, to play against a Killer that knows how to play. You need to get better as killer thats all, same for survivor you won't get a good chaise for example, if you don't know where the pallets and windows are on the map, same goes for killer, if you don't know how to chaise, how to use your ability, how to break loops you won't get the 4 k, but thats alright, because if they'd buff killers more, than a killer who knows how to play, would just kill everyone and get super bored, because there would not be any competition.
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Probably you are just getting bad killers, or you are just good, because I know some people that have about 600 h in the game, playing survivor most of the time, but still not getting to rank one even once, because they get camped, tunneled or just killed by a killer that knows how to play the game.
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I can't speak for all SWF, but pretty often if I play in a SWF group, we still get killed, even from other killers, than you've mentioned. For example Hilly billy is a really strong killer if you can play him. Or actually pretty much every killer can get a 4k even against a swf, if he just knows what to do and or runs the right add ons or perks.
And btw. not every SWF is a group of people talking to each other etc. I sometimes play swf with people I don't really know, because there are pretty much survivors out there, that don't want to help at all. I had rounds, where I got chaised by the killer for 2-3 gens, got hooked for the first time and died on this hook, without the killer camping, becuase my mates didn't wanted to help me.
But sometimes there are rdm. survivors that play like they were in a SWF with you. That liturally try everything to get you off from the hook, to get the killer away from you, so don't blame everything on the SWF.
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whenever it's not possible to get hit all this across, you can have the balls to repeat that again, killer mains
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That is called latency or you can just say that you got a dedicated hit, not uncommon.
I'd say head on is similar in that case, I've been far away from the locker just to get hit by an AoE
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Survivors can be OP which is achieved with SWFs.
To be ignorant that two people are running for the unhook or that the last two survivors are working on two different generators near each other wastes time and in this game you only have so much pallets.. I mean time.
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😒 yeah, strongly disagree with OP; any green or red SWF on mics that have half a brain will split up and gen rush in pairs or otherwise coordinate to frustrate the crap outa you as a killer. I try and be "honorable" and not camp at all if possible as killer but I'll often regret it when it gets obvious they're decent ranks SWF and the jabroni you hooked twice and didn't camp stands there teabagging in the open gateway 😑..
Plus that new "jump out the locker" perk is annoying af.
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it's already known it's because of the killer priority with hits and their connection, they can hit you across the map, if it was a server thng devs wouldnt be reworking it to make it server view prioritized
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I can not stand when people claim that SWF doesn't provide an advantage or act like it's not a problem.
If the game is based on information and the lack of it at most times, and suddenly you can completely and UTTERLY eliminate that of course it needs to be balanced accordingly.
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Man dat game changing monstrous shrine, game changing thanatophobia and game changing iron grasp.
The only perks that killers have that would actually be worthy of the title "game changing" would be:
Pop
STBFL, PWYF on certain killers, Surveillance on certain killers.
Hexperks if not found but on many maps totems are still not hidden well.
We have so much useless crap that would never get picked if this wasn't a non-competitive game in the first place.
Same goes for survivors who have perks that basically amount to additional HOOKSTATES which is the best a perk can get, stuff like Babysitter and repressed alliance is really actually cool but they don't find use since they are too niche while Deadhard/SB/Adrenaline/DS/BT get way more use, way easier and with way more effect.
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The fact that you thinkk DS is game changing it's surprising. DS is a resource that you need to use in clutch situation and with a margen of error.
I've played killer a lot, that's what i wrote all this thread. Every side has perks that are a most have. But checking killer side, you can see plenty of things that are for controlling the pace, maybe it's a mistake to call them "game changing" but i don't have any other word for it. If you are going to play without perks, you will feel a lack of control of the map enourmosly. And if you are going to ignore the fact that every action you do has consequences, then you will always going to feel weak.
I'll mention some perks to discuss about. These for me are the strongest perks from killers that show how dominating they can be. And i'll look over the wiki to not miss any.
- A nurse's Calling: Either if you are going a hit and run killer, or just regular, this perks puts a lot of pressure on survivors. Not been safe from the killer while healing is huge, every time someone gets unhook. Yes it requires some distance before showing the aura but you are forcing survivors to heal far away from you and that's a lot of time wasting.
- Thanatophobia: Awesome perk, lowering the time of the repairs. For default you are extending the game longer.
- Ruin: Still pretty strong. It's a hex, can be countered, but you are forcing someone to find it which is RNG.
- Play with your food: With the right killers, this perk is stupidlly good, some little speed movement makes huge differents.
- Barbeque & Chili: You hook someone you get information, is they don't show up, they are near. It works great for newer players and for billy it's a most.
- Remember me: Delaying the gate opening, every perk that increase the time from objective are a game changing by default. Survivors can only go for Dwight's perks to play more "aggressively" or at least having some control, but those perks are useless, let's be honest.
- Pop goes the weasel: I think that Otz use this perk with almost every killer. That's because is great, you get someone hooked and a generator lower. The more generators survivors do, more easy to control the situation with this perk.
- Discordance: is a really good early perk, like i've been saying, survivors aren't aware of the perks, is a guess at along, and this perk leads where your first move will be.
- Surge: Great for sneaky survivors who are rushing those last seconds on a gen while a chase happen.
- Thrilling Tremors: Probably a most. You are getting all the information you need by just knowing which gens are blocked by the entity. You know where to strike next, or at least check.
- Corrupt Intervention: Avoids gen rush, force survivors to move and put them closer to you. This perk is probably one of the best in the game. By just doing that you are already forcing movement and putting a lot of pressure. Some killers don't need it but it's a great perk to have.
- Infectious Fright: Slugging perk by default. And if you are increasing your terror radius, this perk works great.
- Trail of torment: It works, makes you unpredictible.
- Deathbound: Great combo with nurse's calling and good by it's own
All these perks are not OP, they don't need changes. These perks shows a little how the killer can control pacing and have enourmous map control. Survivors have similar perks but they often are countered by killers abilities, perks or not even worth to equip. If you are not aware how much pressure you are making with theses perks.
And SWF are a problem for killer cause they are players communicating. It's not allow in the gameplay, but not in the lobby. What i mean is if the devs really think is a problem, you wouldn't be able to invite people at your party, that's how it'll be. The perks to control the map are there, you just have to use them.
Information in this game is valuable. The survivors need to SURVIVE, that's why they uses second chances perks. Killers already have abilities, and passives in other cases, so those are advantages they can abuse. Also you can take some addons, and boost your overall power. That makes a huge different with a survivor that lets say wants to go full aggro. A lot of perks that allow them to move quickly or escape, often lacks of any information about teammates. That's a great balance, not knowing where everyone is until they pop some gens or something. Kindred probably is a perk that can make a difference but requires someone to get hooked. And that means a survivor with one hook less. With a little of info of where the killers is heading and my teammate, i can choose what to do. It's the same with a lot of perks i've listed.
I'm really surprise how much people are debating this, love to see diferent opinions. But saying "play killer a more" or just saying i don't know nothing about the game is just annoying. I've played killer and survivor, both. That's why i'm opening the thread.
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Can always tell who has never watched Marth's Depip squad videos.
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This killer threads are get very annoying,the normal people playing this game aren't streamers,if I think that killers are OP as a survivor I will blame of noobish,instead I'm just gonna start make screenshot of all of my games,playing with a friend and not,actually I'm a rank 4 survivor and 16 killer(I play killer only for the Quest) and let me say and prove the game is fine at this state.I have 300+ hrs in game and when It's a good day I die about 6 times out of 10 in a row, last night we never could escape a single match,lost 6 pip with a friend,I think that if killer don't get the 4 kill but stay safe with at least zero pip is a draw for him,as survivor if I die and get a 1 pip I'm sure I did my job well,if a get 0 i don't blame myself. What is frustrating me is people playing likes ######### who pass their times teabagging,save you from hook in ######### front of a killer without BT,or never save you from a hook because thinks that escaping means a guaranted 1 pip,resulting in a depip for me.
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The first gens always pop on the first chase. That's something to know from the get go. It's a fast game, there's not much to it. If you want the game to be extended you actually can. Bring the perks that allows you to control the flow and the pace of the game. YEs, there's already a BP punishment but is not that big of a different, that's what i'm meaning. You can still get a lot of points by it.
Killer is a difficult role, agree, specially in a 1v4 higher rank situation. But that's why the information is key. And one side has all of it. We can't really talk about how much pressure the killer does at the start of the game, because there's non. You are going to do a chase, and that chases brings consequences. You need to be prepare for it and act accordly. You can't control 7 gens all at once, that's obvious, but you can control 5 or 3. And i'm talking about the perks mostly, because it won't be a high rank trial without them. Why you are talking about a gen rush without using corrupt intervention on your build? And also, why people justifice face camping with "strategy" but using "gen rush" as a worst and more annoying mechanic? If i'm getting gen rush i'll immediately set a perimeter. That's why i'm also reffering to perks that allows the killers to make the trials longer, because that what "controlling the pace" means. If we are not going to be aware of the perks that helps the killer to do his job, why are we complaning about survivor's perks?
That's my point for the most part. Survivors don't have the advantages that killer does. It feels silly to complaing about the perks that are just stoping cheap tactics. Kinda i'm asking for a survivors buff, but no. Will be great to see more interesting perks for them at least, because in high ranks all the survivors will use the same perks.
It's kinda boring to see the same perks at high ranks. For both parties. We need more combinations. This game doesn't have a queue for fun, all are ranked matches and that can be real frustrating and overwhelming. Yeah, it works for the matchmaking, but also the matchmaking is not working propertly.
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Well, you can tryhard as much as you want, coordinated SWF teams are more powerful than any killer. Spirit got a chance if they're not optimal tho.
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People who play better than you are OP. People who play worse are not.
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Give us your game changing story on HEX: The Third Seal, lol.
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All of what you said is really determined by who has the more experience, the killer or the survivors, and if it's a SWF group or not. If you're going against a red rank SWF you will need to be on point with your decision making as a killer. Depending on which killer you are many of your choices will be reactionary instead or proactive.
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POP isnt a game chaning perk? it literally gives you more time, and time is the most important thing for a killer.
corrupt isnt a game chaning perk? especially against SWF? or with nurse where you can just slug and end the game within the next 5minutes?
STBFL? did you ever use that perk? im sure you didnt. i use STBFL for most of my killers and it carrys my ass especially against hook rushing people so that is also a useless perk for you?
BBQ, NOED? RUIN with billy? dude.. do you even play killer? you act like killer perk do nothing. i could list a lot more perks who can decide the game but it seems like you just wanna play the victim.
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Hot take, but we're all OP, we just haven't all unlocked that skill level yet :(
In seriousness, though, I think it just plays into the rigidity when dealing with the static nature of the Survivor metagame vs. the adaptive nature of the Killer metagame. With Killer, there's fundamental playstyle differences based on pick, even at optimal play with optimal loadouts, and the 1v4 player difference is balanced out by the fact that the Killer is ideally the one most able to affect the flow of the match, whereas all Survivors fundamentally play the same and the metagame is more based around individual skill and, when skill levels are optimal, loadout: at high-level play, the loadouts unfortunately do tend to more look the same for survivors because the loadouts will more often decide the outcome of high-level play.
Early game, the Killer's primary job is of course to get hooks, but a good killer also makes a secondary point of trying to make sure certain gens don't get worked with maximum effectiveness: it's why getting hooks early game is not as optimal as not getting hooks but keeping the centermost generators unfinished. It's what creates the illusion of 'gen rushing' (which is a thing that can be done if you've got a dedicated group getting lucky with toolboxes and meet-ups at the start of the match, but isn't always gen rushing when it's thought to be): once one or two gens get finished, the rest can just kind of snowball, especially if those two gens are in close clusters on the map, and ESPECIALLY if those two gens are in close clusters in the center of the map. That's the kind of metagame fluidity Survivors don't really have: it helps the late game immensely if they can score center gens, but it's up to the Killer to apply the kind of pressure to stop that, and if the Killer is applying proper pressure, all a Survivor can do is analyze the risk-reward scenario and roll with it.
I haven't played Survivor since I've come back to the game (I'm just playing it safe and going full Killer main until I'm back into the swing of it), but I never DC, I never rage, I never BM, and I no longer sympathize with the people who do, because the metagame just isn't the most dynamic thing, but I also don't get the mentality of people who see a bad experience and decide to make that experience worse for others. And even as a Killer main, I think that 'Survivors are OP' mentality that leads to toxic play doesn't really benefit anyone, not even the Killer. I'll admit that even as someone who used to fall into the trap of taking content creators like TydeTyme too seriously on this exact matter. Not because Survivors aren't - or at least can't be - OP, but because it's not stopping people from playing as intended, and if there's to be something to address this, it's on the devs to address at this point, because there's no way they haven't heard recurring sentiments of 'Killers are OP' or 'Survivors are OP': Killers and Survivors leaning into it as a reactionary response just makes the experience worse for everyone.
Sometimes I have a bad match - had one recently where a SWF of three decided to hold the game hostage for me and their teammate: not figuratively, either; I mean ten minutes and not a single gen was done. The fact that ANY skilled survivor can easily do that at the drop of a hat could make me think there's something overpowered about Survivors as a whole, but in reality I know I'm just dealing with toxic jackasses who don't like the intended mechanics and feel the excess need to abuse flaws in the game's fundamental design.
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IDK how the actual ######### can someone think that "pop is a game changer". First of all, most of the killers will run pop just because the gen speed is dumb and you really need something to TRY slowing it. Second, you NEED TO HOOK a survivor for it to work, and it works in ONE GEN only. Third, by the time you get your first hook, probably on or two gens will pop, no matter how quick the chase was (not counting on potato chases). Fouth, again, after the first hook, you'll get to pop ONE gen, then there's probably on or two more being worked (if the survivors are not potatoes, one will go for the unhook and the other two will sit on gens, if they're SWF you're screwed at this point). Fifth, after the first pop, HERE WE GO AGAIN, CHASE-> 1HIT -> CHASE -> DOWN -> HOOK -> POP, and guess what, another one or two gens gone by that time...
Pop is NOT a game changer, is, at max, a perk to TRY slowing the game down. And when you NEED to run a perk so the game won't fly by your eyes, you know that something is wrong. I would love to run another perks but if I don't run POP, corrupt, thrilling, surge, ruin etc, I'll get a 5 minute game, even if I can end chases quickly.
By the way, the devs already acknowledged that gen speed is ######### Up...
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Okay, explain this. I'll wait. Thank deepwound for pointing this out.
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Almost
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Sorry but you have no idea what you talking about. im Rank1 with both sides with 3K hours. i guess there is no point to have a discussion with you.
the only thing i see from you is disagree without everyone and everyhing. that shows you are not ready to have a discussion. so have fun with your mindset.
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You're right.
you're the best killer in dbd, how dare anyone has a different point of view then you. i appologize for everyone, you are clearly the best killer and have more experience then anyone! im really sorry Killer God i didnt want to insult you with my experience!
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i like it that people saying survivors aren't Op skip the video. my first time watching it tho
that swf survivors in red rank no perk no item against red rank killer with add on and perks make you think.
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I slugged all 4 to death with old legion and hex the third seal. that's a once in a lifetime thing tho, same as monstrous shrine could've maybe prevented a kobe in one of my basement funbuilds.
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Survivors quite explicitly control the pace of the game as the game ends when the generators are repaired. The killer cannot repair gens. If you are in a match where the killer is controlling the pace of the game then the killer has likely already won.
The truth is that a coordinated group of survivors will make mincemeat out of any killer - as it should be. That's the primary challenge for survivors - not in looping, not in hiding, not in stacking second-chances. It's working together despite the challenge of limited information. That's why solo queue survivor-ing is hard. It's also why SWFing with comms is easy, as you're just using a 3rd party app to remove what makes the game difficult - now information is not limited at all and coordination is trivial. If you use it to gain an advantage in the game, you get a tremendous advantage in the game. It's like if speed hacks were generally acceptable for killers to use for some reason.
And that's the problem and why you hear the statement so much. Survivors as a team are OP, and they should be. But, it should require all four survivors playing well for any of them to be OP. Survivors are the equivalent of Nurse - if you get it right, you should stomp. For the vast majority of games, however, there's at least one weak link, and that weak link should drag everybody down so that no survivors are OP.
Except, of course, we are cavalier about comms. So now survivor groups are either trying to play Nurse legit, or trying to play Leatherface with a speed hack. And the game, predictably, becomes impossible to balance. You want to give solo-queue survivors a leg up so that the weak link isn't so punishing? Congrats now your comm groups are invincible. Do something to survivors with the knowledge that they might be on comms? Congrats now solo queue survivors are snacks.
The problem is that they don't limit or throttle only the survivors in parties in any way. Of course, then you have a problem with lobby dodging survivors who try and team up anyway, but I think you could just increase or get creative with the lobby dodge penalty to discourage this.
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Killers can end the game by killing all survivors, it's not all about the gens. But yeah in most part i undestand where is coming from. Survivors are really strong and when they do coordinate, it becomes an imposible task for the killer. We all do what we can to win, we don't want to lose rank, but thats kind of frustrating. It's all about the rank and how stressful can be when you are alone. There's thinks the devs can do to stop this SWF, like forcing to be a 3 people queue. This will allow a weak link to happen like you are suggesting. But you can't stop people from playing together.
It is true that if we put a trial where no perks are allowed, survivors will win fairly easy. That's why perks for killers are so important. I could suggest that some of them should be passives by default on the trial. I don't think is a bad idea because there's a lack of builds and perks variety and that maybe can help to innovate a little more for killers and for survivors as well.
We have different point of view, that's why we are not agreeing. It's cocky to say what you just said. This is a DISCUSSIONS forum, why are we suppose to do? I'm giving my thoughs on every comment to undestand the situation. Not need to be greedy saying thinks like that.
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I am gathering that English is not a native tongue so I admit I am having some trouble figuring out what you are saying here.
Yes, killers can end the game by killing all the survivors. What I am saying is that if you have lost the pressure of gen repair and the killer is dictating the pace of the game by killing survivors, you have likely already lost and/or are looking for the hatch. I am saying that survivors are only strong when they are able to work together, and that is the challenge of playing survivor. All comms are is a shortcut to this, whether it's two people in a party or four. You can still have a weak link in a SWF and SWF are not inherently unbeatable. Even teams on comms are not inherently unbeatable as it is up to them to utilize the tool well.
A perkless game would go about the same. It is still up to the survivors to play well together. If they do, they would generally win. If they do not, they give the killer the opportunity to win and it becomes up to the killer. This is not necessarily bad design. Comms, however are a 3rd party app that upend that balance and make it much easier for the survivors to play well together, much like a 3rd party hack would make it much easier for a killer to play well individually. You cannot fix this by buffing or nerfing survivors or killers as a group, as not every survivor team is going to be on comms; you can only fix this by nerfing survivors in a party.
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Agreed
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When I reference a SWF group, I don't mean random people grouping up for fun, or even friends on discord just having fun without a serious need to win. Against groups like that, winning for a killer is still possible. Harder than it should be just from simple problems like coordinated knowledge of who needs to go rescue the guy on the hook, or one spine chill equating to 4 because that knowledge is insta-shared.
Even without trying hard, the game was not remotely designed with balance in mind if you include SWF.
And against SWF groups actually trying hard, which most are at red ranks, no killer can win outside of top tier. Nurse & Spirit, because they can apply so much pressure and down so quickly. If you aren't getting multiple downs and hooks per minute, against a good SWF group you will lose.
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I still disagree, even if we grouped up in red ranks, and tried hard, we got beaten by killers like scream, huntress, doctor or hilli billy. It is harder for sure, but it is also harder for every survivor to play if the killer runs ruin or pop or bbq etc.
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This is disgusting. And it's only gotten worse, not better.
The game is simply not balanced with four-man SWF. You get a neural network distribution of information that solo queue players don't get. It's a gargantuan advantage and simply unfair for killers.
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It's simply impossible to lose as a coordinated 4-man SWF group. You obtain so much information, it's a neural net distribution network. You know where the killer is, where your friends are, you know who goes to rescue on the hook if anyone is ever even hooked at all. Even what pallets have been broken. To have all that knowledge at all times delivered to everyone, imagine a perk giving that to solo queue players. It would be the most OP perk in the game by a country mile.
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Most of these complaints are unfounded. The biggest problem i have as a killer is that early game against good survivors doesn't exist.
It's basic math.
As soon as a match starts, killer spawns away from survivors, survivors hop on gens within 10 seconds. Takes the killer 20-40 seconds (depends on map size/shape) to walk to the other side of the map. Killer finds the first survivor. 1st part of chase lasts about 15 seconds, get a hit. Spend 15seconds just holding w to catch up to the survivor and get a second hit. If they get to a pallet, add another 15-20 seconds to break the pallet (or mind game if it is an unsafe pallet) and repeat. Now, do the math.
10 seconds (walking to first survivor, assuming small map, assuming it takes them a bit of time to hop on gens) + 15 seconds (1st hit) + 15 seconds (2nd hit) + 3 seconds (picking them up) + 5 seconds (walking to hook) + 2 seconds (hooking them) =
10 + 15 + 15 + 3 + 5 +2 = 50 seconds (assuming the survivor just held w the whole time)
Now if you add in that a survivor likely gets to 1 pallet/window during that chase, which is very likely to happen, and you have 3 gens being lost during the first chase if survivors are perfectly on gens. This is the problem with the game. Now the only way for me to come back is to camp that hook and play like a dick. There's no gens left to use pop on or any other gen regression perks, because they finished all the ones that had progress, i'm next to my 3 gen that has no progress on them, so why even bother leaving the hook?
Now you might say, i can injure that survivor and then move on to another one. This is true, but people usually bring medkits/self-care/inner strength. And that 1st hit which cost me about 30 seconds to get can be healed by survivors in almost half the time.
Unless you are playing a killer that can shorten chases and have good map pressure, forget about it. This is why nurse is so godly when played well (and why i am a nurse main). A good nurse can shorten that 50 seconds down to about 30 seconds. Suddenly the game is playable now.
Early game needs to exist again.
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