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Scott details the issues people have with "boring" killers
When people say Spirit for instance is "boring," everyone knows what they mean but they get the copy+paste "git gud" or "jUSt mInDgAMe hER" kek
just wanna see what people here think from the person that is generally viewed as fair voice in the community as both "sides" tend to respect him.
Comments
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I've gotta say, I flat out don't understand the devs' design pilosophy half the time.
Look at Huntress, she came in and they were like "ok, we have a ranged killer, so to compensate we're gong to make it so that survivors have a really large area that lets them know she's around."
Then Deathslinger comes out and it's like "ok, we have a ranged killer, so let's make him stealthy af, like no terror radius until you're already in shooting range, and add ons that can let him shoot you outside TR."
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Deathslinger got smaller hit box if we compare with huntress so that probably the reasonning behind that and sont forget deathslinger range is 18 meter while huntress range is all map. Those are hige diference between those killer
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They're very different ranged killers though. DS can't down you over multiple walls from like 40+ meters away.
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This is not an Esport game, stop trying to make it one.
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This is the LEAST applicable design thread you can make that statement on.
The video is literally all about the subjective non-balance portion of the Killer designs.
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I can agree with this to an extent. I think characters like Spirit and pre-patch Legion are boring because they have 0 counterplay. Atleast in Spirit's case, you just guess, but there was nothing you could do about pre patch legion.
However, I LOVE fighting deathslinger, but maybe that's just a me thing.
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I agree with him, iffy on Deathslinger bit the others for sure!
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He talks about skill and why if feels so bad when you go skill 5000 but still lose. This game is closer to gambling than a pure skill based game.
@NuclearBurrito i didnt quote you, but i thought i did.
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Love the dark souls background music, also I agree with his points completely.
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Also monitor
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We can really make it gambling be including...drumroll...LOOT CRATES
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this ain't call of boo-tay
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Generally, since Legion every single killer is bad designed but with oni being the expection.
Spirit - unfun to go against and bad designed (at least strong tho)
Legion - unfun to go against and weak (mid tier at best)
Deathslinger - unfun to go against and mid tier at best
Plague - unfun to go against and mid tier killer
Ghostface - unfun to go against but at least kinda strong ish
Pyramidhead - unfun to against
New Freddy - unfun to against but at least super strong
Like idk, devs are creating so bad designed killers...
Back then: Billy fun, nurse fun, Myers fun, Huntress fun and then it kept going down hill. They are losing ideas and since they force themselves to create 4 new killers every year there is just bullshit created.
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I'm fine with most things he said about spirit, but he doesn't seem know how to verse Deathslinger. If he did he wouldn't be saying it's a guess and some of his other complaints just don't make sense about him (like skill doesn't matter against him).
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He’s not talking about going against a rank 10 deathslinger, or a red rank who isn’t good with ds. He’s talking about (a) add ons that basically eliminate your terror radius (b) he can instantly lift/drop/lift his gun repeatedly to force you to path where he wants, then it’s a guess as to when he’s going to fire, when to juke, etc. Not anything to disagree about with his statement
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He said he's disliking the killers that almost eliminate any of the survivors skill, and while it may be true for spirit, it's absolutely not for slinger.
A: His TR is 24m, 16m with monitor, and you can see that tall mf coming from a mile away if he's trying to get a shot. If there is too many LOS blockers for you to see him you'll have a warning before he can get a shot. Very few situations where its been almost impossible to avoid a shot, and he needs for him to be running monitor for it to happen which is horribly overrated on him.
B: Depending on the situation you can tell whether he's going to take a shot or not depending on the skill level of the slinger, if you're just rounding a corner then he'll likely shoot, if you're out in the open he'll likely not shoot.
Of course good slingers will be unpredictable, but that's on you to read him depending on how good he is. Remember he has no map pressure, so his ability must be good in chase. If it can be countered 100% of the time he'd be trash.
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Yeah but this is one of the times i think hes just wrong. His argument is essdntially "survivors want to be able to use the skills theyve learned" and by ghat he means looping.
Want to take a wild guess at what the most boring thing in the game is for killers? Running around in circles for 5 mi utes.
What behaviour is doing is creating killers that have different counterplays to their powers, some killers you can loop to ######### like wraith, some killers you have to counter a little more uniquely like Spirit. This keeps the game fresh and different. If every single killer was loopable the way wraith is this game would have died 2 years ago.
Scott's wrong on this, the people that find a killer boring its because they either dont understand the counter to thst killer and are getting waxed all the time, or they understand it really well and dont find it challanging. Either way, so tf what. Its better than every single killer having the same boring ass nascar counter
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Run in an unpredictable zig zag, if youre not injured loop like you would against huntress, if you are injured drop the pallet early. You have to know which loops you can safely force him to break and which you need to zig zag your ass away from. Theres still skill involved countering him, theyre just slightly different skills than countering wraith. Scott. Is. Wrong.
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Just calling something unfun and badly designed is a bs argument and its 100% subjective, i dont find any of these killers unfun to vs, but then i take the time to learn them and understand their counters.
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Theres no guessing in countering spirit, if you think that thats why you find her boring. And were back to git gud. No, you wont always counter her perfectly 100% of the time, but if you could shed be trash just like every other killer would be.
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Since the whole idea is boring, which is a rather subjective thing in the first place. Someone in this thread finds ghostface boring to go against but i find him fun to go against. Making the idea of "boring" sound like a poor reasoning to use. Now lacking counter play or something like that, sounds way more reasonable. Since at least there it's base on something that can factual be proven or shown to be false.
Which also the idea of oh hey, you have to change your playstyle depending on the killer your facing. Does sound like it adds variety to the game and keeps it from being boring, due to having to mix it up and not have to simply do the same thing each and every time, helping to keep the game play loop from being the same thing each and every time. Which again makes the idea of boring, sounds like a very weak position to stand on. Which as i said before, basing it on counter play or lack there of, is far more reasonable and stronger point to stand on, since you can at least prove that. While for boring, one person can find ghostface boring to play against and another person could have the time of their life playing against ghostface.
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Exactly. Ghostface i find incredibly boring to play as, but going against him can be fun for sure. Countering him is way different than others and can be difficult to force him into a loopable state
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Yeah having to play the same against every killer would be boring as ######### #########.
Having to change your playstyle and adapt to the Killer you have is one of the best parts of the game.
I enjoy going against spirit personally. I love horror games and spirit phasing is one of the scariest things in this game. Doc too. Doc makes you go insane and the devs have done a good job with his him with that design in mind. I enjoy playing against Ghostface but so many list him as boring??? I guess it's because he can yoink you off gens before you even know he's in the game and he can hide himself in loops.
Feel like most of the people complaining just want to mindnumbingly run in circles around trash and that's one of if not the most boring things about this game.
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I have no idea why he says demo is more fun than slinger. As a main of both killers, I find slinger more fun to play/verse because his strong power is entirely based on mindgames between good players. The fact that some survivors call it a boring guessing game baffles me. It's no different from vaulting an unsafe pallet. His argument holds better in regards to clown, freddy, and spirit, though. I think freddy would be OK if snares weren't so oppressive, as they're the only braindead part of his kit.
Spirit has far too much advantage over injured survivors, making it feel pointless for them to do anything besides w.
Pyramid Head is just as oppressive at loops, as he can just plop his blade down and if you drop a pallet or vault, you're hit. If you keep running, he just whacks you.....
Looping huntress is WAY more fun than PH, as her slower speed makes the mindgames more risky. PH has 4.6 speed and can hit through obstacles, making him a fairly low risk killer in many 1v1 situations.
Perhaps I'm just bad and don't know how to play against him though.....
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Yup, and then theres the different play styles of each killer too. Did trapper put all his traps in 1 area, did he put them in random loops around the map? Did he trap the ######### out of basement? Theres an incredible amount of variety, which keeps you on your toes.
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players want a predictable outcomes. RNG says maybe.
most players do not like uncertainty.
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I don't really like scott honestly. He's a good source for oni advice, but his opinions on everything else are...weird. He was one of the reasons Oni got crippled for a month, i don't forget that.
Just like otzdarva knows everything about trapper and tofu is a god on billy.
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Crippled for a month? What you mean?
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What, hes trying to make the game more fun not more competitive. What are you on.
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Dont speak its name you summon the demon itself.
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fun at the cost of what? It's a 4 vs 1 game but each of the 4 should = the 1...because each of the 4 should have = fun as the 1....
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If we based the game on pure individual skill, 4 skilled ppl will always defeat their equal.
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Bro killers can be fun while still be fun to go against like billy, like huntress when net code isnt being #########, killers where the skill of both parties are what's called into question not just the skill of one party, like nurse, spirit, and deathslinger. Killers that when played correctly dont really have a counter in chase.
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The chase is not the whole game.
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So you find sitting on a gen fun?
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Players wants to 1 vs 1 the killer because it's "fun", but there are 4 survivors and 1 killer. Killer's don't have the time to tag everyone if 1 survivor = the power level of a killer.
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So you want to play tag without being it?
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the problem is 4 players want to 1 vs 1 the lone player.
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What??? What point are you trying to make??
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You want a killer to engage you, but you should be = to killer even though there are 3 other players playing.
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Bro I'm a killer main I just dont want kills to feel cheap. What's the point of pvp the decision of the other players dont ######### matter. I want the game to feel rewarding and fun for both sides because that's good for the health of the game. I'm not close minded idiot who thinks I'm entitled to downing survivors just because I'm the killer it's my job.
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I don't get the issue with Deathslinger. He's a 110% move speed, no map pressure killer. Sure, he can get the jump on you if you aren't paying attention, but pallets are still his biggest weakness. He can't even down you if you're on opposite sides of the pallet like Huntress can. He's a WEAK killer and I don't understand why people are so against him. If you think he's unfun to verse, then I pity you for focusing on killers like him and not Spirit or Freddy.
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did you call me a closed minded idiot?
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If that's your take away then let me add tunnel visioned dumbass
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lol you are a wonderful person
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I dont know that guy, but i disagree with him. The point with spirit is not that it nullifies survivor skill, it just ask for a different skill than other survivors. People who have different playstyles from the common "loop the killer as long as you can" can handle spirit just fine.
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K nice nonanswer I'll just assume you dont actually have an answer since I hit a nerve or something have a good one hopefully you grow up a bit.
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cool brodad
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Smaller hitbox yes
But he can make more precise shot then huntres since her hatchets have such a huge hitbox, meaning that in fine his smaller hitbox helps him more out i think
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It's not about understanding them or learning the counters. I know them very well. It's just unfun. Doesn't matter if I win or lose, I simply don't have fun against them.
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