Yet another game lost to second chance perks.
I try to be nice by leaving the hooked guy and give the other dude a chance to get a save. I then proceed to get body blocked to death because haddonfield is such a great map, and when I get bodyblocked and forced to down the BT'd unhooked guy I get DS'd in the exit gate which was right next to the damn hook. Lose 2 kills because of second chance perks once again saving a team that I rightfully smashed in game. Guess I was tunneling?
I'm just gonna continue making these posts. Probably won't matter, but I'll continue doing it. That way people can see how often I personally come across these seemingly RARE games where the perks screw over a game, which supposedly only happen once every 1000 years. But don't worry. They're only anti tunneling perks, and if I get DS'd that means I was tunneling.
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k.
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Hooked near an exit gate and playing 'nice'? Yeah, why would you do that and expect them not to get out? It's not really a complaint so much as telling everyone you're borderline-entitled and didn't play that part of the game smart.
Second-chance perks are very strong, just like slowdown perks are very strong. They're both stale af to go against, but are so common due to the fact people hate the other but they both balance each out - momentum wise. I hate the meta, but until it is nerfed or a new meta is introduced, can't really moan about it in this regard.
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this happen alot when gate are open second chance perks are over powered when EGC starts.
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Is it really that entitled to expect people to not bodyblock with BT and still get a free DS escape? Or is it more entitled to use those perks for what is clearly not their intended purpose, after the killer was nice to you?
And seriously, don't compare gen slowdown to second chance perks. There is zero overlap. One exists to alleviate or undo mistakes made by the survivor. The other exists because base gen speeds are slightly over 3 minutes. Removing both from the game would result in survivors being forced to get good, and killers quitting because of the resultant match speeds that no amount of skill can undo simply because of the maths behind it.
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But yet if I protect my hook in a situation where I know I should I'm called a camper and "the problem with dead by daylight" by entitled survivors who EXPECT you to sacrifice your game as the killer to pamper them and make their game fun.
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And I just lost to noed but im not complaing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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CoolStoryBro
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@FootMan2893 your post pretty much tells me that the game was over and the doors were powered, if not 99'd. What issue is there with camping at endgame? Even survivors don't care about that. Some do, the ones who have zero idea what the killer's perspective is in that situation, but others know and don't knock the killer for trying to secure something out of the game.
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@MadLordJack it's entitled to expect that a survivor won't try to escape utilizing their perks, yes.
And yes, Slowdown and Second-Chance definitely overlap since that's what the current meta is...both sides use that meta because they hate the others meta and know to expect it. So they equip their roles meta to counteract it.
I hate the meta, it should be Rotation Pressure vs Chase Outplay.
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Actually the loss is all on you. Even though they had the second chance perks you had them dead to rights. Then you decided to be nice and it cost you the Kills. Don't blame the 2nd chance perks, they would have done those survivors no good if not for your mistake, according to your story.
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When the gens are done I always camp the last hook and survivors always complain about it and I will continue to camp the last hook. Anything else is stupid, bird in the hand and all that. OP is correct, DS, BT, adrenaline is nothing but a free escape with no consequences. In many games survivors will just walk right out due to these perks but it's part of the survivor friendly game this is.
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Then by your logic it's entitled for survivors to think that the killer can't hardcore tunnel and facecamp, since most survivor teams have at least 1 moron that falls for that and gets everyone killed.
And I really have no idea what fantasy world you live in where "meta" and"overlap" are the same thing. Seriously, so-called slowdown perks aren't even meta, it's just a catagory of perks. Pop is meta. Surge isn't. Maybe go look up the definition of overlap, or accept that your definition means that literally every perk catagory overlaps because there are perks from every vaguely-defined catagory of perk that are considered meta. For example, info perks (bond, kindred, BBQ, whispers), healing perks (inner Strength, SC/Botany), chase perks (enduring), exhaustion perks (self explanatory) and stealth perks (IW, UE).
Honestly, what you are saying makes no sense, second chance perks are not the survivor equivalent of game slowdown perks. Please do compare DS to Pop, and/or 1-use-huge-reward perks that cover a survivors mistakes and/or allow them to make hyper aggressive and overtly unfairly unpunishable plays, to perks that, depending on the character, go from offering them a fighting chance by both passively and actively slowing down generator repairs, to making high-momentum characters completely overbearing and genuinely annoying.
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NOED is completely counterable, and is high risk high reward. Second chance perks, the only way to counter them, well, is to wait or slug or don't hit the same person twice, and if they use this aggressively, like in his match where he was body blocked by the bt unhooked surv and then DS'd, near the exit gate, well if he left him on ground, he would just crawl out the exit gate, the second guy probably already left. There was no counter to what happened. Thats the problem. Second chance perks "counters" punish the killer, and playing into them punishes the killer, and thats the problem when they're used aggressively. No counter except for "get f'd" is poor design. Not a single killer perk that gives as much of an advantage as taking away a hook like second chnces do is in the game, and the ones that are in the game are completely counterable by totems or adaptive playstyle, like devoir hope or noed or ruin or pop, they are all counterable.
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It's end game. Nobody can ######### if you camp when then gens are completed. If they do to bad for them.
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Killers have to play in a some form of shady way, there is just not enough time in a game to get all 12 hooks, it's impossible, if the survivor are just decent. Slug, patrol or camp and tunnel if the situation calls for it, survivors have control of the pace of the game for the most part.
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Press X to doubt.
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Your suggestion that killers don't have anything comparable to give them an advantage is just plain wrong. Insta downs take away a hit just like 2nd chance perks give them.
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I just had a match in which a survivor traded hooks and the recently unhooked survivor rescued her. I downed the rescuer and got ds'd and the two of them escaped since it was near the 99'd exit gate.
TLDR I feel your pain.
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If its any consolation, NOED has screwed over survivors millions of times
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NOED high risk high reward? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
More like low risk huge reward
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I Didn't say they didn't have anything comparable, I said that the things they have thag are comparable are counterable
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In 90% of my surv games today my team destroyed all totems during the game or the last one left in endgame. I've seen noed activate once today (which was the totem that was destroyed seconds later), but being used and not activated due to all totems being done several times.
It is literally the easiest objective for survivors, so if anyone dares to compare noed to 2nd chance perks that are not counterable (and i personally think of "whoops i made a mistake, ah nevermind-dead hard", that person has no clue. There are even perks that are great for finding totems, but honestly, who needs that?! If survivors rather "genrush" than taking their time to slow it down just a little bit, they are at fault. This is NOT comparable to Dead Hard or Adrenaline. If every survivor destroys one totem, it's literally just 30s of extra work for three and 1min for one. It's nothing, considering how fast gens are being done, and how long it takes a killer to down (not kill) ONE survivor (not four). Multiply this effort of the killer by 12, and compare it to the 2,5 min total totem time. I'd say all totems can be destroyed during one or two chases between a killer and a good survivor (especially if the survivor has DH and whatnot :o) ).
This noed "argument" is simply unbelievable stupid. It is not hard to do some math, but it seems like this forum doesn't like looking at numbers. 5 totems, phhhh.
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You just explained why no one should have sympathy for your loss at this point. "Survivor teams have at least 1 moron that falls for tunneling and facecamping"
Well in your instance you just became that thing but killer side by being complacent in the middle of the match and "being nice".
Why on gods green earth, would you ever start hook pressure by an exit gate after all the generators are done.... you're making us killers look bad....
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You’re bragging about smashing on survivors? Why do you have such a high ego?
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Its a predictable strat at this point dude....if you see them trying to force you to do anything near a hook just slug them and wait out the timer.....they aren't going anywhere....also, even if its 1 gen left or end game, don't hook near the exit gates....unless you're myers or billy or leatherface or you can pull a ghost face just....pull them closer to the middle of the map, you get a decent amount of time to move people to the hook you want just....don't be afraid to take that time.
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Because haddonfield is a well designed map. There was no hooks close enough that I wasn't going to have to risk running around a 5 mile long fence wall to get to and potentially drop the dude.
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Because it's not me bragging about smashing them, it's me saying I rightfully won that game and deserved a 3k at the very least. Especially when it's haddonfield, every killers absolute favorite map and a totally well designed one. Probably right along side Midwich in amazing map design.
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Yeah some survivor perks are ridiculous and they usually get more so at endgame. But even if you're the better player you aren't going to win every game in a game like this. Good survivors die to bad killers, bad survivors escape against good killers, there's so many variables in dbd. Being too competitive about it is just gonna stress yourself out.
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It's the feeling of being cheated out of something by a mechanic that has no actual way to circumvent. No matter what you do against these sort of perks you take an L in some way. That's why I hate them.
A perfect example of a truly dumb mechanic was a match on Groaning storehouse. Did you know that the center building in that map is still a technical infinite? True infinites don't exist anymore of course, but I'm talking about those godly loop setups where theoretically it's possible to get caught, but in practical gameplay if the killer is forced to chase into it he'll lose all of his gens before he downs the person. Yeah. I had a match where I unfortunately had to face against that. It was 2016/2017 all over again where the motto was "When in doubt, just run to cow tree.".
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I know the frustration. I posted a video a while back where I got d-striked three times in a row at the exit gates. Just for my own sake I don't see the game in a very competitive way, and I try and leave games in the past once they're over. I don't think I'd enjoy it much otherwise.
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NOED high risk/high reward?! Absolutely not. There’s no risk whatsoever. If it doesn’t activate, that means the survivors gave you time cleansing totems, so you still benefited. High risk means running something that may give you no value at all. NOED is basically a win/win.
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Ah yes, you mean the laughable 14 seconds it takes to cleanse the totem? Damn, I've had it all wrong then. Legion is best killer confirmed. So get this. He has this really interesting ability that lets him stab people, and wouldn't ya know it. When they get stabbed they have to rub themselves for 12! WHOLE! SECONDS! WOW! And bruh, get this. If you slap on this purple add on he has that 12! WHOLE! SECONDS! get bumped to 14.5 FRIGGIN! SECONDS! OH MY GOD! And you can hit everyone with it. THEY'RE ALL WASTING SO! MUCH! TIME! Everyone wastes the entire game away! Holy Guacamole! It's SO broken! Kinda weird though how people call him one of the weakest killers in the game. I wonder why?
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What the hell are you talking about? I didn't do shite, I'm not the OP. Just pointing out certain glaring inconsistencies.
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They can complain all they want. It won't save them lol
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”The totem”? You know there can be up to 5 of those dulls to prevent it, right? Terrible comparison to Legions power, not the same thing at all. Ok, so you are saying there’s no difference in time with a game where survivors spend time cleaning multiple dulls to prevent NOED vs completely ignoring them. Gotcha. Killer receives no benefit whatsoever with that time spent not on gens. Makes perfect sense.
I don’t think you know what high risk/high reward even means.
Post edited by Karl_Childers on0 -
It Really doesn't give you any value, most of the time you play the whole game without a 4th perk, too. Sure maybe they cleansed totems (which in total only takes a minute and 30 seconds to cleanse all of them, not counting travel time) thats really nothing I'd the group is good at looping.
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At first it’s not smart to hook a survivor near the exit gate.
Killer complain about second chance perks but killers have a lot of counter against them: bt: leave hook, go for the unhooker, use insidious or a stealthkiller; ds: slugging, eat it in the early game; unbreakable: pick up earlier or camp the slug, adrenalin: defend the gens... and killer have 2nd Chance perks to like bloodwarden or noed and they can slug for the 4k.
Why killer don’t understand that the game wants a balance around 2k? So sometimes you get 0k, sometimes 2k and sometimes 3 or 4k...
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Yes. Because that means it's at most still less than a single gen's worth of repair time. With how fast objectives are completed compared to how long it takes for a killer to search, chase, down, hook, and repeat, you could actually add in an additional generator and it still wouldn't slow down good survivor teams. So no, a game where all totems gets cleansed will be no worse off for the survivor than a game without.
And for the entire game you then have to play without a fourth perk that MAY give you 1 or 2 downs in the end game before the people either escape or cleanse it.
And actually it's a great comparison. Legion's entire existence is literally just forcing survivors to deal with minor time sinks similar to cleansing totems and hoping to win off that. On an average game of legion you actually get triple the amount of deep wound procs over just those 5 little totems and he's still a pile of garbage. So on average you make survivors waste 200+ seconds compared to 70 for the totems, and legion STILL manages to be one of the weakest killers in the game.
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All this 2nd chance label is just a made-up slogan with very little basis. Perks are enhancement, for both sides. Nothing more. They had to use '2nd chance' perks to counter your '2nd chance' ability built into your basekit aka camping and tunneling. You failed preventing the generators from being completed and you can't catch them again if you leave the hook. No problem. 2nd chance by just staying with the hanging guy. See what I did there? Get over it, nobody would play a game called 'get rehooked in 1 second simulator'. That's how Deathgarden died out. You have your '2nd chance' basekit, they have to sacrifice slots for their '2nd chance' perks. Learn and move on, none of this stuff is a cheat card to a win.
Two tips:
- in the endgame, hook as far as possible from the gates.
- if they get out, don't get mad. They already completed the larger part of their objective and they've already a foot out the door, figuratively. If you manage to get many kills in the endgame, it's more a bonus for you, not some great accomplishment or amazingly skilled gameplay.
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You have no clue how this game works if you think the killer has any ability to stop gens from being done against not bad survivors in red ranks. Not even perfect, no even optimal, not even good, just not bad. You're also equally delusional if you think protecting a hook is 2nd chance in anyway at all.
You're even MORE delusional if you think that any amount of camping or tunneling is happening in this game. News flash, it isn't. These perks are being abused because they're mindlessly broken and allow for things to happen that were never intended to. They aren't prevent tunneling or camping, they're rewarding survivors for bad gameplay.
Even some of the most well known neutral content creators constantly talk about how much of a joke these survivor perks and mechanics are.
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kind of like low risk high reward. Most survivors wont do dull totems unless their running inner strength or just want points. either way its still mostly a crutch perk like ds and stuff like that.
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I play killer at rank 1. Feel free to check my post history where I also posted screenshots. Not gonna read after your first sentence which already invalidates anything you could say.
You can either learn the game and trying to improve, or come here on the forum to complain and obtain nothing. Your call. I'll still enjoy my wins in the red ranks. Have a nice one, bye.
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Those may be possible countermeasures but survivor found ways to even negate these counters.
Bt: survivor hook bomb the killer so there is not really a choice to leave (even when the killer is not camping)
DS: slug is covered by unbreakable, eating it early is the ONLY counter at this point
Unbreakable: DS covers the early pick-up, camping a slug makes you lose even more pressure on the other survivors
Adrenaline: really, "protect gens".... Where did I hear something similar... Oh right the counter for noed... Do bones 🙄
The problem is a 3k doesn't feel like a win since you could not finish your objective (kill) completely. It is just like getting second place in a competition, like the saying second place is first loser. 2 kills feel like bronce: "hey atleast I got something" and only 1 kill is the participation award. 0k is simply getting stomped or robbed of any feeling of accomplishment.
The escaped survivor on the other hand gets a sense of accomplishment if just he himself gets out in form of "yay I made it". The only downside is useless altruism in a videogame that lets survivor trying to save everyone.
I, for my part, changed my view of winning so I don't get depressed by this game. Getting everyone hooked for my BBQ and I am satisfied to keep the match going no matter how many escape but against good survivors even this goal can get frustrating.
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its not hard to find all the totems in the game and finish all the gens in like 7 minutes but the killer should also be pressuring the gens and things like that noed is a crutch perk and if you can get it off in the end its game changing. Something like that is pretty strong, if not, unfair in some cases. Lets say you get looped by all 4 survivors for 4 minutes each and each of them did a gen and you only downed 2 of them the entire game. after that they all get the last gen done and in the next 20 seconds all of them get downed. I don't think even you would agree that that killer deserves anything more than a kill max. Now on the other side lets say you have a team that has 4 insta heals, bt, ds and other annoying perks. you play pretty perfectly and fair with the game lasting like 6 minutes and you killed one and have 3 dead on hook. in this case i would say that if you did play well but gens went flying for no reason other than the survivors were playing m1 simulator, then i agree noed is kind of great since they most likely didnt do any totems. in other words, noed is kind of a crutch perk, but if you get hit by it, its kinda also your fault since you really can just find all the totems and do the gens as wel.
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Well you tried to be nice so do not be nice next time. I kinda find it odd that you seem to be aware of what will happen yet do not prevent and complain afterwards about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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This isn't entitlement, this is proof that """""""anti-tunnel""""""" perks are just timed immunity that players are free to abuse for guaranteed escapes
Half the time, people with DS/Unbreakable just get off the hook and start doing gens in your face to taunt you, because they know they have a minute-long safety bubble
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Sure some survivors find and use counter against counter but than they have to use two perks (DS & unbreakable) only for this situation. And if a survivor farm the hooked survivor you have to be smart and see him near the hook, so you can grab or hit him and that’s a free hit.
And you said: „3k don’t feel like a win“... Why not? You only have to accept the balance around 2k. You never lost a other game in your life?? Nobody wins always, that’s part of a game! And look at the other side: if every killer get always 4k there are four other player (survivor) who can’t „win“.
I have days when I escape maybe 2 of 10 matches and I‘m a rank 1 survivor. On these days I’m far far away from the 50/50 balance, but I can still enjoy a lot of this games cause I earn bloodpoints and emblems and have fun.
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Funny thing, I just had another "tunneling" incident. Hooked a guy, an injured person came and suicided to unhook the guy. The unhooked guy runs back and BT dives the hook for an unhook while also having BT for the guy getting hooked. I decided to just accept it and tunnel him into a facecamp. I guess if they really want it then i just need to learn to give it to them
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The problem with the DS/ unbreakable combo is that it does not get used by just SOME survivors but the majority. But this would only lead back to the endless meta discussion.
And it seems you didn't read the last part of my post. I don't care about kills anymore. I play dbd not even regularly, just from time to time. My only staple perk that I try to get on all my killers is BBQ to counter the up to 1.5 billion bp grind.
I am a killer-only player at rank 13 since yesterday. It would be far to unenjoyable for me to try hard this game to get to red ranks which mean nothing outside of the game.
Edit: Ah I forgot something. I played from rank 17 to 10 two weeks ago and in this time I faced 12 of 16 perks as meta/second chance/whatever perks on average even there, not in exclusively in the red ranks.
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Then you were with swf because I play solo and the totems are never done. Hell even 2 man swf can be tricky sometimes depending on the map and people you get out with.
You want to talk about math? 5 totems is 74 seconds cleansing alone. That’s basically an extra generator.That’s not including those times you get interrupted as the killer walks past and you have to stop losing your progress. Add in the amount of time travelling to and looking for the totems which can vary by map but can add minutes on. Sometimes you only just barely get the gens done and literally don’t have time to get the gens done. All this to stop the killer from activating god mode and using a perk which takes all skill out of the chase and allows you to instadown survivors at a time when theres gonna be barely any pallets left on the map and maybe not even a full survivor team left.
Meanwhile, asking a killer to simply not pick someone up within 60 seconds of them being unhooked is apparently too hard to do and not an acceptable counter at all.
The killer main entitlement is real.
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