Is "Surge" a bad perk?
I just got the Demogorgon and barring a few ######### messaging me about how I'm a high ranked killer but I suck so therefore I must boost or some #########, it's been an interesting few games.
What I want to talk about though is his power, The Surge. For those that don't know...
"Putting a survivor in a dying state with a basic attack causes all generators within a 32 meter radius to instantly explode and regress 8%"
This perk seems super awesome but no one ever seems to use it or even really talk about it and I'm curious why. I've only played the handful of games with Demo so maybe it's one of those perks that seem good until you've used it a few times or maybe there are similar but better perks (I've only been playing a few month so a lot of perks I just don't have unlocked) or maybe just no one likes poor Demo because he's not a Top Tier Killer so everyone has ignored his perks.
What are your thoughts on Surge?
Comments
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It is only good on a select few killers, it is generally a pretty garbage perk with M&A or 24m killers. Demos perks are Perry garbage overall, which is sad
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Surge isn't based on TR.
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Oops, I forgot, shows how garbage of a perk I think it is 🤣
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This perk would be much much better if it didn't had that basic attack requirement.
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It's an ok perk.
For awhile, Tru3 was using Ruin/Surveillance/Surge/and Corrupt(maybe it was Discordance?)on Pyramid Head.
Demo's perks could be good if they weren't so restricted.
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Any killer who uses basic attacks to down survivors, it's a very good perk. It regresses the base ten percent and then eight percent, so 18% and that's PRETTY good.
As far as on killers like Billy, Huntress, and sometimes LF, it doesn't proc nearly as often and you won't wanna run it.
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Surge is entirely character dependent.
Legion is a good killer for it sense you almost always down survivors with a basic attack that it will always cause generators to pop and due to the map mobility if you have Pop it works with it.
As well due to surging one side of the map frenzing to the other by chaining hits then popping one more gen.
Deathslinger it's ok on sense you can pull survivors into a basic attack(His power's hit counts as a basic attack for some reason) so you can force it to cause generators in a specific areas to explode.
That being said surge SHOULDN'T HAVE A COOL-DOWN AS ITS EFFECT CAN'T STACK.
If a generator is still regressing from surge then its immune to being surged again.
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It is... mediocre. Unfortunately, there just isn't a strong case to run Surge over other gen-stall perks like Ruin, Pop Goes the Weasel, or Corrupt Intervention.
Surge is a fun concept for a perk that is let down by a few factors:
-It has a long cooldown. 40 Seconds is a lot of time for a situational perk like this to be on the backburner. I don't think most players like the killer-cooldown perks very much either; almost none of them see regular use (at least in my experience).
-Survivors must be downed with a BASIC attack. This means killers who more heavily rely on using special attacks get little utility from Surge (Huntress, Billy, LF, and Oni, as well as Pig, Plague, Demogorgan, and Pyramid Head to a lesser extent). That's almost half of the killer cast right there.
-It only effects gens within 32m of the downed survivor. This is the situational part that kills Surge in conjunction with its cooldown. If survivors are playing smart, they will be trying to lead the killer away from gens that still need to be completed (newer players often panic-dash to the corners of the map). Downing these players may activate regression on one gen, if you're lucky. Even then, if you're only consistently hitting one gen with Surge, you may as well run PGtW to apply 25% insta-regression instead of 8%.
-It has an underwhelming ability. Being able to instantly regress several gens without needing to kick them is pretty awesome, but that 8% regression doesn't mean much. That requires a single survivor to repair an affected gen for about 6-7 more seconds (probably the time you need to hook your fresh prey). PGtW takes up to 20 seconds off of a single gen (for one survivor), which is often just more useful and consistent as a gen-stall tool.
Personally, I'm hoping that they might cut Surge's cooldown in half (or maybe even quarter it), remove the "basic attack" requirement, and allow it to apply Ruin-regression speeds to any generator it affects. DG is a fun killer, shame that its personal perks really don't feel up to par.
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Surge is a niche perk balanced like a versatile one, which is to say it's given conditions appropriate for a medium high payoff, but the payoff is low by comparison.
The only Killer that I can think of that can make the perk truly good is Ghostface, because he can get the most out of the perk: His downs are staggered, sudden, near gens and are via-basic attacks. Too many conditions for the disproportionately weak effect, ghostface consistently meets every condition almost every time, but no other Killer does.
Killers that are slower at downing won't get value out of this perk because the Survivor will get away from the gen in time
Killers that are faster at downing will be heavily bottle-necked by the cooldown
And Killers that down with M2 can't use the perk at all regardless of downing speed
I want to see the cooldown and M1 requirements removed. Killers that are slow at downing still won't get value at the perk, making the perk a specialized snowball perk, which it kinda already is except it's conditions explicitly prevent use for snowballing.
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What base 10%?
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Its not bad. I like it a lot on Michael and Legion, I just think it shouldn't have a cool down because of how restrictive it is.
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I use it a lot on killers that always down with a basic attack, and even some that don't depending on circumstances.
Generally i'll use it on:
Nurse
Clown
Legion
Wraith
Myers
Ghostface
Deathslinger
I'll also throw it on pig even though she sometimes downs with her power. Generally i only use the power to get the first hit, or to hit the obsession to save STBFL stacks.
On most killers i have been running a build of BBQ + Pop + Surge + Surveillance. Generally you down someone, surge goes off, and if it stays white, you know nobody is there. If it goes yellow, you know someone is there repairing. So you can get a good pop on it. If not BBQ shows you where to take your pop too and now you know exactly when that gen is being worked on.
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Surge is good for applying surveillance without kicks. It's definitely the perks primary purpose atm and as an alarm while ruin is up that someone is working on a gen within the range. Wouldn't recommend it outside of synergy builds and def not on demo as it won't apply to shred.
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...so Surge and Surveillance work together? Because that makes me a LOT more intrigued in Surge as Surveillance is my jam on basically every killer I use.
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The GF insight was pretty good. Nice.
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Oh yeah, on specifically Ghostface in particular the perk is unironically good. Not having to kick gens is extremely useful for keeping momentum and you almost always get the perk to proc after each down. I'll frequently end up using the perk immediately off cooldown without even trying.
Yes ruin exists, but if it gets cleansed you lose far too much momentum. Surge lets you keep that momentum more reliably.
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The person you responded to is confused. They thought the explosion from surge was the same as a failed skill check (which sets a gen back 10%), but they're incorrect. It's not 10% + 8%. Surge only regresses affected gens by 8%, full stop.
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When a survivor misses a skillcheck it regresses 10% by default.
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Surge + Ruin (if Ruin survives) is pretty good.
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What's that got to do with surge?
Surge isn't a missed skillcheck.
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I have seen builds with it, however i think POP does a better job for it.
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People do say this game doesn't provide enough scares...
😈
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Surge acts like a missed skillcheck. Therefore applying the 10% on top of the 8%.
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It's meh. Only being triggered by basic attacks and its cooldown are really holding it back.
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No it doesn't. It just creates an explosion.
Explosions have nothing to do with regression as per the perk technician which negates the explosion but does nothing to the regression.
The 10% regression is exclusively tied to the actual act of a Survivor missing a skill check
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I’ve just started trying it recently. If you’re one of those people that likes to take Ruin and Surveillance then its probably decent as it will work with Surveillance after Ruin is gone.
Its not a bad little perk I dont think so far. Its good against solo as it makes gens regress, but obviously a 3-4 man swf will be able to communicate to stop any gens from regressing too far.
Also sometimes it comes in clutch. Like when you down a survivor and another is trying to rush a nearby gen, Pop is stronger but you need to pick up and hook first. Because that 8% kicks in as soon as the survivor is hit Ive had it stop survivors from finishing a gen in front of my face when Pop couldn’t.
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If you say so.
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Would be good if it worked with PGTW. Unfortunately, slowing down gens is illegal.
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That actually happened to me in my last match, which was kind of the inspiration for the thread. That gen had to have been seconds away as she kept working the gen as I smacked her down. Lost the percentage, other survivor couldn't pop it before I circled back after the hook.
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If the perk didn't have a basic attack requirement and didn't have a cooldown it might become a viable alternative to Pop. I have no idea why they make these perks and then slap a cooldown on them, punishing you for doing well.
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IMO it just comes up short of being a passable perk.
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Surge isn’t bad but the cooldown on it is just not necessary for the effect it actually has or the impact it has on the game.
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Honestly the perk nice it just has a lot of drawbacks that make it not as good as it could be.
Basic attack based- this cripples a lot of Perks it basically means if you're playing a killer who can use there power to down somebody you're often going to lose out from this.
Some Killers don't have to worry about this but a decent amount to do.
Cooldown- the fact that this perk has a cooldown along with the previously mentioned basic attack requirement it makes actually very inconsistent in fact it starts to get weaker the more the game progresses.
Either gens are too spread out for you to effectively hit multiple let alone one or they're clustered together and the survivor in question just runs away from them meaning you don't hit anything.
I'm fine of its lack of synergy because when you honestly think about it hitting three generators with 33% regression instant regression can get pretty annoying..
Honestly if I could suggest anything for this perk I would say either remove the basic requirement or remove/ really lower the cooldown
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It’s weak. Like someone said previously, if you play a killer with a normal terror radius most survivors will just run away from gens when they’re chased, rendering it useless. It’s also hamstrung by its cooldown and M1 requirement, and 8% regression is basically nothing.
It’s not a perk that will help you win games you wouldn’t have won without it, like it feels kind of nice to have but it doesn’t do enough to justify the perk slot in my opinion. A well timed Pop can be the difference between keeping and losing a gen but Surge just doesn’t have that kind of power. It’s meh.
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I just want to clarify even though it's worded as it is, it does NOT regress 18%. This was tested I believe by Otz, and it only regresses the 8%.
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It's not bad, but it is overly conditional to the Nth degree. Basic attack only, 32m radius, gen can't already be regressing, 40 second cooldown. I only use it on pressure oriented killers who only down with basic attacks i.e. Clown, Deathslinger, etc.
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Surge is good and I would use it much, much more often if it wasnt for completely pointless cooldown. It already has a very strict and non spammable requirement in real gameplay and its effect doesnt stack anyway, cooldown is completely unecessary. That's like giving cooldown to Inner Strength, so you cannot break a dull totem for some unknown reason and make it count for the perk.
The only reason why I see it having a cd is very close 3 gen strat against slugging killer..., still such situation is a loss no matter what for survivors.
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The cooldown is the only thing holding it back, if you ask me. Its just way too long for the perk to be consistently useful.
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but it does work with pgtw
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I leveled up Surge to try Archdruiddrey's regular Doctor build for myself (BBQ, STBFL, Iron Maiden, Surge) and I've grown to like it as a nice convenience perk. It's probably the most replaceable perk in the build, but not having to stop to kick a gen to make it regress can be useful, nonetheless. I take the slightly lower regression as a trade off for that convenience.
I also agree it's most effective on M1 dependent Killers like Legion or Doctor.
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It only procs on normal m1 downs, so it is not suitable for a killer who can down with their power (Huntress, Hillbilly etc).
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Hence "I also agree it's most effective on M1 dependent Killers like Legion or Doctor."
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Surge is map dependant, and completely relys on how the killer uses it to determine whether or not its worth it. On maps like The Game, Hawkins, Sanctum of Wrath work well with the perk, but larger maps causes you to get little use out of it. Since most maps are still reletively large it falls behind perks like Ruin and Pop.
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It can be good, but it's not good on Demo sadly. Pop is much better for regression.
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No i use it on all of my builds except hillbilly leatherface and huntress. Its earned its spot for me. Its insane on multistory maps because it 1 gives you information, and 2 saves you time that youd otherwise spend kicking gens, which is a waste of time for the little amount of regression it provides. With surge it gives an 8 percent flat regression and keeps the gen regressing after that. Run it with thrilling tremors and pop goes the weasel and you have the ultimate gen defense. Best case scenario is you get a surge proc, pick up a survivor and see a gen in the distance with thrilling tremors, hook the survivor, and go and pop the gen thats being worked on. The build forces survivors into a catch 22 if you get momentum going. It forces them to spread out but once they do that, the progress thats constantly being lost to your perks outweighs the time that you allow them to work on gens solo
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I consider it bad. It can't be changed with different TR perks or add-ons, it has a cooldown without a legitimate reason aside from a very small progression bonus, and it only triggers on basic hits so it's limited to Killers who are limited to basic hits. As it is, it will never be considered a good perk in general.
If they removed the cooldown and made it a TR based perk then it would probably get more usage.
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It work best on plague, spirit, billy, anything that can down survivors quick basically.
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Removing the cooldown would be a first great step, if you ask me. Making the AoE scale with TR means a few killers cannot use it anymore, like Deathslinger or Hag due to their small TR.
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Surge goes well with ruin when people don't get off the gen it'll proc and goes well with surveillance, which is what i use for pyramid head since he can be very efficient if things go his way. It's really good for killers that don't have time to kick gens and need to keep up the pressure like clown, trapper and doctor come to mind where they have to stay on the move since there mobility is pretty trash, it's best just to keep control of a general area with surge and I also use PGTW for when they don't let go of gens after the surge proc.
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It causes 8% regression to gens and makes them start regressing within 32m and disables you from kicking them so it really doesn't pair with PGTW.
If you ask me it's an overrated perk and I don't often get value out of it.
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