Let's talk controversial killers: Spirit, Freddy, Deathslinger
Recently, I've noticed the forums focusing on which other killers to change since the Billy rework on the PTB. While I do agree that only his add-ons should've changed, I would really like to here what people have to say about other killers. Specifically, ones that have plagued the forums in the last few weeks: Spirit, Freddy, and Deathslinger.
I of course have my own opinions about these killers, but I know a lot of people don't find an issue with them.
I think Spirit needs some sort of indication that she is phasing during a chase. But even so, I think I would still find her unfun to verse. I don't mind her identity as a Killer but her power is just so boring to try and play against I almost never find it fulfilling to verse Spirits. It's just guess which side of the pallet to be on or hope you have Iron Will (but to be fair most Spirits use Stridor). However I have heard plenty of people here say that they have no issue with Spirit and that she does have "counterplay", so I would like to ask them: What is it? Not talking about perks or anything; how do you ACTUALLY counterplay a Killer you cannot see or hear other than just 50/50 guessing on either side of the pallet?
The Killer I have the most issue with is Freddy though. Yeah sure, Spirit sucks to play against but has lack of map pressure. Freddy on the other hand, I feel as if he can do literally everything. Map pressure? Check. Anti-looping tools? Check. Counters common and strong perks like BT that let him tunnel off hook? Check. No pun-intended, but I quite literally feel like falling asleep going against a Freddy. He can end chases quickly, or force a pallet out early, can teleport across the map and PGTW a gen that against ANY other killer would've been completed, says a huge ######### you to BT, and the alarm clocks are honestly a joke (they're always in the corner of the map and you don't really stay awake for that long). Plus, he can put snares during chases without any penalty (unlike Hag or Trapper). I also feel like there's a reason Fungoose (a DBD streamer) chose Freddy to do his 4k streak with ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfZhz81J1hc if you're interested). Honestly all I want out of Freddy is SOME form of weakness. Movement penalty when placing snares? Teleport range reduced a little bit? Being asleep doesn't counter BT? Something.
Lastly, for Deathslinger, I honestly don't have too much issue with him. I understand he is very strong in the 1v1 chase and can end them quickly. But much like Huntress, he moves at 110% and suffers from a lack of map pressure. While I am a Huntress main, I am playing more Deathslinger because I find he removes a lot of weaknesses that Huntress has. There's no hum to warn survivors from 54 miles away, can insta-ADS and shoot, and has a 24m (base) Terror Radius. Yeah sure, he's weak if you drop pallets early, but that can be wasteful and actually good for the killer. He can also ignore a lot of loops anyway if they don't have the tall walls to block LOS. I honestly don't know why you would play Huntress over Deathslinger. All I would want for him is a 32m TR honestly, so he isn't an assassin with Monitor & Abuse. He still gets owned with split pressure from Survivors, and missing a shot on him is EXTREMELY punishing.
I would really like to hear from everyone what they think about these 3 killers. The forums have been flooded with Spirit and Deathslinger posts since the Billy rework announcement, and I think we can all agree Freddy has been a topic of discussion since his rework.
Comments
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Freddy: Just needs his wake up clocks to be RNG not directly across the map.
Spirit: Indicator for when phasing, even if the shards on her just glow enough to notice them.
Deathslinger: his ADS needs looking at, everyone argues about his terror radius but it’s the ADS that gets people because there’s no real counter.
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You think Spirit lacks map pressure? That...has not been my experience with her.
Honestly i think all 3 are fine. They have counterplay, its just not the standard nascar simulator counterplay that survivors are used to. I actually think ph is more broken than any of those 3 as he doesnt have counter play. Drop the pallet or dont either way youre getting hit. The best counter to him is holding W as long as possible. Fred you stay awake as much as possible and when you are asleep in chase you drop the pallet early. Spirit you vault while shes phasing then do something unpredictable while walking. I think the reason survivors struggle against them is because they actually require thought and planning instead of running in circles for 3 minutes.
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freddy: balanced killer.
spirit: intermediate, it is a matter of luck where she appears
deathslinger: weak killer and little pressure on the map
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In my view all 3 killers are fine but I'd delete Spirit from the game because she isn't fun at all. No one likes playing guessing games in a competitive multiplayer game where incorrect guesses means you lose. Can't really say I have an issue with Deathslinger and my only beef with Freddy since the rework (Favorite killer to play mind you) is that I wish BHVR would just outright remove the slowdown addons he has. He's a completely different killer he doesn't need them anymore. He's quite balanced without addons which I never thought I'd say. Additionally I don't believe he needed that oblivious effect on sleeping survivors but again won't question it too much.
Regarding Spirit. Even if you know she is phasing it's still a guessing game. Boring af and unfun to deal with. I feel mentally drained every time I have to play as or against her. Would rather play other games entirely if I knew I'd have to deal with Spirit more which is why I get mad when other killers are nerfed. Pushes everyone towards playing Spirit.
tbh is Freddy and Deathslinger even controversial? From my understanding Huntress with Iri Heads is more controversial than those two.
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Freddy's kit is overkill. Something in there needs tweaking.
Spirit needs indication of when she is and isn't phasing.
And Deathslinger shouldn't be able to quickscope, he also shouldn't be able to cancel his power and immediately M1 right after. Same goes with Pyramid Head.
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The only issue I have is with Spirit. I really enjoy going against Freddy except his dream world is too dark for me to see anything due to my night blindness. Gunslinger isn't that hard to deal with for me unless he's up my ass but even then, just throw a pallet early. Force him to break it and repeat.
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I have a short list of nerfs that would solve the problems for Freddy and Spirit.
Spirit
- Doesn't hear survivor's grunts of pain during her phase walk.
Freddy
- Teleport is on a 70 second cool down much like the Doctor but added a extra 10 seconds so he can't just spam it by faking it and getting it back within 5 seconds also limits his map pressure so he's less oppressive.
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Yeah Iri Head Huntress sucks but I'm talking about base-kit. I honestly can't remember the last time I versed an Iri Head Huntress. And like I said in my post, Freddy has been a topic of discussion since his rework. Lots of people, including myself, think he is overloaded and has very little weaknesses. But it's hard to change that since he is licensed. Plus, if you don't think Deathslinger is controversial, I don't think you've been on the forums much in the past 2 weeks.
She lacks map pressure on paper, but she ends chases so quickly it feels like she is always at the gen you're on. Same deal with Nurse. Her power is used for chasing survivors, it isn't a Freddy teleport or a Billy chainsaw sprint.
About PH though, I agree he is a little problematic in the same way Deathslinger is. Fake out your ranged attack, gain distance, you hit them. PH has a 32m TR though and I'd argue Deathslinger's small TR and his instant quickscope is way more annoying than PH's kind of slow ranged attack.
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Spirit isnt so bad I just hate all the rampant tunneling bad spirits do. They hook a survivor, walk away and then phase walk back for the tunnel. This is the go-to strategy of most Spirits.
Freddy needs to lose oblivious. He doesnt need it and he shouldnt have a free counter to borrowed time. He also shouldnt have slow down add ons, free slowdown without doing anything.
Deathslinger just needs to be deleted.
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Honestly I grow tired of seeing these post about killer's that survivor's "find boring" or "don't like" because it sounds like entitlement that you can't adjust your gameplay because you insist on doing the same thing instead of using your brain.
I think all 3 killer's are fine and I really enjoy going against/playing all 3 of them (except Caleb since he can be looped into oblivion and he has no physics)
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Dude, spirit moves really fast while phasing, i use it to get across the map all the time. With add ons i think she even moves as fast as billy or close to it anyway. She has great map pressure, sure its not a teleport like fred but freds cooldown is longer
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I really don't think I am entitled, and I play a lot of both sides so I feel like I can make informed opinions. The problem I have with "adjusting gameplay" is that survivors have 1 tool to try and escape the killer: looping pallets and jungle gyms. Spirit basically says "no" to that. It isn't like Nurse who you can both see and hear when she's blinking. Spirit is invisible and you have no idea when she's gonna pop out. To me, that doesn't sound like counterplay more than it does a boring guessing game.
Freddy though I agree adjusting gameplay is good, but I feel like you missed what I said. I don't think Freddy has a weakness. Pretty much every other killer does. Nurse? Good at ending chases quickly, can't pressure the map. Huntress? Same deal. Current Billy? Can pressure the map but can be looped way easier than the aforementioned killers. I always drop pallets early against Freddy when asleep. That's about as much adjusting as there is.
I feel like you are trying to misuse the word controversial. These killers are brought up time and time again about whether they're fair and balanced or not. They ARE controversial. Whether or not you think they are balanced and fair has nothing to do with it.
I've never had an issue with Spirit moving that fast when she's on the other side of the map. Sure, she has some really strong add-ons that can make her do that, but a lot of it comes from just ending chases quickly. That first hook is when the actual game starts, and she can snowball so easily. It may seem like map pressure, but to be honest I think it's comparable to Nurse. It's map pressure in the form of "I am forcing survivors to come unhook this guy while I down another before it even happens".
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In the meta we have right now freddy is the most fair killer in the game he do everything good whitout being op
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That's what every killer says "theres counterplay but it's not typical" no deathslinger has no counterplay it's a guessing game. He can shoot in less than a second and a good one with good aim can quick shot you. You can not counter something you vant react to. Spirit with stridor is uncounterable and once you are injured there is nothing you can do. Yes freddy had counterplay but it's very uninteractive and pre dropping leaves you nothing end game.
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These strong killers ignore survivors only defense with no brain at all unlike nurse who you can combine normal looping with extra tricks like double backing and faking. These killers dont make survivors think oh freddy let's just pre drop spirit oh I better hope I guess right, deathslinger ditto, pyramid head ditto. You can call looping easy but it's not easy to master.
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I think Freddy should get directional humming in dream world.
Spirit should stay.
Deathslibger with a wind-up would extinct.
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Spirit: She should disappear every time she phases. You still have mindgame potential but having a survivor drop god pallet and vault straight into your hands just by standing still isn't fun.
Deathslinger: Needs a buff to be stronger.
Freddy: Directional humming/removing oblivious status
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Freddy is about as braindead as they come.
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Ok let's nerf every viable killer to Legion level instead of buffing the weak ones
Enjoy your M1 gen simulator
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My idea for Deathslinger was to give him some ADS time, and also a short time for lowering his rifle. Not sure how much, maybe a little under a second, during which time you would hear his gun make a slight noise and hear him breathe in. Not too loud but noticeable enough at a short range, below 10m perhaps. Make his ADS sensitivity the same as the normal sens. Reduce the stun time slightly if the chain breaks. And then finally make him 115%.
That's just my idea, Idk. Would make his map pressure slightly better, give him some counterplay but it also wouldn't punish him too much if he misses constantly.
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I can feel your bias and lack of thought coming through my monitor. I know you're a Spirit main, but I'm not talking about nerfing all the good killers. I'm talking about making them fun. A good example is Nurse. Best killer in the game if you know how to play her. No one complains about Nurse. A simple "nerf" or rather quality of life change would do Spirit some good. Like I said multiple times, I like her identity as a killer. I just think some things should be changed to make her fun to verse from the survivor side. Next time you want to comment something, put some effort into it or don't say anything.
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I honestly don't get why it's such a great issue that he can counter BT. Whats so diificult about waking up first and then sneaking to rescue? God forbid there is a killer that denies brain-dead hook rushing with BT. Sure if the Freddy camps it sucks, but it sucks the same with every other camping killer. But apart from that, I wouldn't mind dream world no longer applying oblivious (it is not Freddy who "needs to lose" it, technically, since the survs get the effect applied). Because then he wouldn't be so vulnerable to OoO, which is the most stupid thing to encounter as Freddy.
I like his slow down addons, not because of "forever freddy" (a total bullshit term imo since slowdown was reduced drastically, but whatever), but because it allows me to play around with niche perk builds instead of having to rely on some gen regression perks. Currently i'm memeing around with Nemesis, Furtive Chase and Make your Choice, a really nasty combo for downing the unhooker fast without him knowing you are coming (bc of nemesis / furtive chase).
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Not once did I ever complain about having to play differently. I love that about DBD. I am talking about fun and counterplay. Spirit is not fun to verse because her counterplay is practically non-existent. There's no room for skill expression. If the Spirit is good, you die. The main reason is because I agree, I think we should have an indicator that she's actually phasing. So I'm sure we can see eye to eye on that.
Because the alarm clocks are on the other side of map usually. Gotta waste a good minute if we want to wake up for a BT save. And by that time, someone else has been downed and is on hook. Also, you realise the oblivious status effect is what causes BT to not wok right? So you wanting to remove that would mean BT could be used for hook-bombing?
About his add-ons: I'm sure the devs had good intentions with the slow down ones. The problem is, 90% of players who use them are using them for Forever Freddy. Slow down add-ons, starting in dream world, then Ruin and PGTW on top of that. Maybe Thana too. It's hands down the most boring thing I've ever encountered in this game. No one likes holding M1 on gens in general, let alone for a good 2 minutes for a single gen.
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I love how many people complain about Mr. YeeHaw when he’s a killer that actually takes skill to fully master. I go against so many as a survivor who can’t even get one kill, so stop acting like he’s this OP monster without any counter, as that couldn’t be further from the truth. He’s one of the most fun killers to play against and as. I swear most people who only play survivor don’t want any challenge. You’d probably be more happy going against bots than real people. Are some people extremely good with him? Hell yeah. But you shouldn’t nerf a killer because of that. As every single killer will have people who are great at playing them.
Mr. YeeHaw is my main alongside Michael and I never feel like I’m handed wins. I win because I know how to play as both of them. Simple.
Missing ONE SHOT as Mr. YeeHaw could literally cost you the entire match. You have to be extremely accurate to make sure you can get the down and apply more pressure to the gens.
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I really want this threads to end. People constantly complained about Nurse and Spirit until they got nerfed. Then about Ruin until it got nerfed. How should that end? The reason behind the Ruin nerf was to help new players and because it was used so often. But so is DS, when do they nerf a meta survivor perk?
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Deathslinger is a one ten killer that has to be within 18 meters of you if he misses he has to reload
He's got one shot one kill
You have to be good at aiming not to mention aiming slows him down
He's a good 1 v 1 but 1 v 4 yeah that ain't so good
He's not s tier not bottom tier either
I really don't know what the hells ppl problem with deathslinger at all
I mean this is this killer who's exposed add on isn't top tier let that sink in a sec
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- Complain about a strong killer
- Get them nerfed
- Look for next strong killer
- Jump to 1.
You're part of it. "Billy just got nerfed, what about...?
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Nobody touches Freddy. He was a crap killer, some of us adapted and got good with him, then the re-work happened now he's a good killer, we adapted again having to un-train all the agonizing pain and suffering we had learned for the first iteration. No, poor freddy has been there, doesn't need to go there again. lol
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I don't have any issues with freddy himself, just with the way a lot of people play him - i.e. stacking multiple slowdown addons and perks. It's not even that he's too strong or performing too well. It's that the games last so long, I just want to be out of there midway through.
Spirit - there's definitely some counterplay to her power. When she stands still, try to leave her FOV without leaving safety to force her to phase or move; fake going away from safety, but stay close enough to run back in case she was faking; never stand still. Focus on making distance, rather than looping tiles and so on. All of this gives you some counterplay, but at the end of the day, most of your chases will still be mostly guesswork. I don't find that particularly interesting. Like freddy, i don't want her to be weaker, i'd prefer if her power got completely changed
Deathslinger - just like the other two, i don't think he's too strong or oppressive. His power is just extremely annoying, specifically when you've made distance from him. All he needs to do is fake a few shots and force you to dodge to lose all your distance. Otherwise if you don't dodge, then he can just shoot. The problem I have with this is that the other player does not need to outplay you in order to force you to give up your advantage. For that reason i think there should be a limit on how much you can spam your power without actually shooting. If any killer needs charges it's deathslinger, not nurse or billy.
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As someone who loves to play as DS but dislikes how annoying he can be to verse, these are stuff I would like to see addressed on him.
Make missing shots actually punishing, reload is way too short, I would say double or even triple the reload time of his spear, I can barely feel the slowdown in terms of time when I do reload on vanilla speed.
His TR sound is wonky, it doesnt ramp up as other killers, thus it is praxtically much shorter than others.
I would say introduce built in "lullaby" to 24m on top of his TR, some wild west bullcrap, gush of wind, whistling, anythong. New lullaby could be affected by his ADS addons that lower TR, so it would also reduce the lullaby.
And the most controversal but also really needed to remove the "hopelessness" when versing him. Instant noscoping.
Rework it slightly. Here are two suggestions:
Holding ADS for longer increases his spear's range (illogical, but who cares, gameplay > logic). Thus quick scoping would result in a short spear shot but holding it longer would increase it drastically, maybe even further than current 18m, like 24 max.
Another idea is to make quick scope spear break A LOT faster, where as holding ads for longer will increase durability of the chain. There is still the unknown of when he is going to shot but at the cost of DS' slowed down movement while he increases durability of the chain.
He is not a weak killer, suffers from map pressure as all other ones, but is extremely strong mid chase. I find it werid when people say he is mid tier or can avoid him easily. You cant avoid him, he is the one making mistakes or just straight up missing you.
About the rest of the killers.
Spirit, I completely refuse playing her and If I have to (rituals and maybe future challenges), I will only equip bbq, no other perks. Playing her feels extremely Dirty, cheap and "unrewarding" (she is extremely easy to play, resulting in the character itself winning the round rather than the player.
The issues, spirit is literally a loot box of the gameplay. It is just a gamble. And if you dont run Iron Will or she uses Stridor, escaping while injured is almost impossible, unless the killer doesnt use headphones or has sound muted.
I dont have a good idea to change her without reworking her power or heavily nerfing tracking whike phasing (omnidirectional sound, muffled sounds, etc). She is 2nd worst designed killer in dbd, just behind release version of the legion.
Freddy just needs downsides to using his power mid chase. Dropping pools like it is nothing without any slowdown or cooldown is weird.
Misuse of a power should come at a cost, Freddy has none of that beside porting to a wrong gen.
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Well, may as well give my own personal opinion on those three killers in particular.
Firstly, Spirit. I think she's honestly one of the more fun killers to verse and play as. A bad spirit is as easy, if not easier to bully than a bad nurse. A good spirit can be tricked a few times by sprinting away for just over a second and seeing if she moves at all, then going backwards. Throwing a pallet down early and walking away, double vaulting windows and so on. A great spirit you have to actually be unpredictable with. Hold W in a chase, after doubling back once or twice. Throw a pallet down, but actually stay on the other side. Pretend to be bad so she confuses herself. But in terms of her power and how she is, if sounds weren't stupid right now, she'd definitely be a bit too easy to use. With sound as it is, Iron Will removing breathing, Stridor muting grunts of pain, maps having no footstep sounds, etc. She's not even that great to play as. If Sounds were fixed, i would personally make it so grunts of pain were omni-directional. I feel that would be more than enough.
Freddy. I honestly haven't played against a good Freddo Frog, and I rarely use him, so I don't have much to say. Bit boring in a chase since he's literally the most basic of killers really, and his power to teleport to gens is a bit annoyng to deal with when it's combined with Pop. Even Spirit still needs to spend a bit of time getting to the Gen. At the same time though, not too sure how to change him to fix either issue. Maybe if he had a limit to how may snares he could place at all, similar to a Trapper's traps. Meaning he'd have to use em in a similar way to get optimal chases? Not sure with him.
Deathsling is the same. Not at all interactive in a chase for me. If he misses a shot, it's just that. He missed. I didn't dodge it, he just missed it. The ADS is way too quick so you can't react to it, especially on Console. Not only that, but when you drop a pallet early. That's it, can't do anything as a 110% killer really. So, I think the change I would make his spear a little quicker when shot, and give his gun a hammer that he has to pull back before firing. Make it seem a bit heavy, so it takes about .5 of a second to fire. As well as that however, give him the ability to pull an injured survivor over a window or pallet if they're directly in the center of it. This would act like a survivor is vaulting towards him. Reason I think this would be fine is because you can actually react to him aiming and as well as that, flashlight saves would be possible.
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First of, let me correct you here.
I find Freddy and Spirit boring to go against, not because I'm "entitled", but because it's my personal OPINION. There's certain killers I like to go up against and killers I don't like going up against. It's not about "adjusting one's gameplay" it's about how I feel against those killers. There will be survivors who can't be bothered to go up against certain killers but subtly generalising that all survivors are entitled by having an opinion isn't really the way to word it.
Truth is, I'm tired of seeing people like this call survivor's entitled for finding a certain killer boring, it doesn't mean we're entitled, it means we are allowed to have opinions.
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Crying about Freddy in 2020.
lol
*yawn
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So by making these killers easy to beat with 257,000 counters to their power, they suddenly become "fun" to play against?
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The issue your getting into is that each of these killers have downsides already..yet if you play long enough you begin to realize these killers arnt bad at all..in fact..unlike some people I only have fun as survivor vs the strong killers..because if my team is good we win otherwise without much competition..and if I'm with my friends..well..4 killer dcs, 1 killer face camped my friend and got two kills because he camped basement on another as trapper , two killers gave up and opened the doors for us..no matter what killer of what rank..we didnt lose a single time..Freddy and doctor should be every killers position strength wise , spirit is just designed for higher end plays but..I think if she had a flicker on her husk for a second when her phase starts..itd be a good way to make keep her mind games intact while also rewarding positioning to hide the flicker or punish oblivious survivors over attentive ones , and since you know when she starts phasing when you watch her closely..you can have a pretty good idea of how long you have till she catches up and can be useful to good players. Death slinger is weak..so unless he gets massively buffed to compensate you cant limit his quick scoping..just not realistic at all
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Where did I mention anything about counter play?
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Freddy is fine as is.
Comparing Spirit and Deathslinger to each other, Deathslinger actually requires skill to play while Spirit only needs a good pair of headphones to "outplay" the survivors.
Deathslinger is a 50/50 in complete honesty, because the player using them can either be very inexperienced, or downright dominating.
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Literally no one has said they want to make these killers weak or anything. Just minor nerfs/changes to make them more fun and interactive. Plus, my definition of "fun" in DBD as a survivor is the chase. It's the only exciting thing that happens. Then you get killers like Spirit where the chase is practically non-existent because once she finds you, it's already over (as long as she isn't a potato). So yes, in a way, giving them counterplay does make it "fun" to play against.
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"Because the alarm clocks are on the other side of map usually."
As if there are no other ways to wake up. Also, if the hooked surv. is accross the map, the chances are good you can pick your clock up on the way.
"Gotta waste a good minute if we want to wake up for a BT save. And by that time, someone else has been downed and is on hook."
Don't the two sentences contradict themself? If the Freddy chases and downs someone else, you don't need your BT for save (if the other idoes not play dumb, that is). Why do you even WANT a BT safe? I would think playing safely should always be the top priority. Bc when you required BT for the safe there is a good chance that you go down yourself, thus playing in the hands of the killer.
"Also, you realise the oblivious status effect is what causes BT to not wok right?"
I know that.
"So you wanting to remove that would mean BT could be used for hook-bombing?"
No, I did not say that, you gotta read more carefully. I wrote "I wouldn't mind seeing it removed", thats a whole different thing than "I want it removed". The current situation prevents hook bombing more effectively, but makes Freddy vulnerable to OoO. Without the Oblivious, hook bombing must be dealt with as every other killer (which is manageable mostly, also I usually don't punish the unhooked one for blunt unhooks, but the unhooker, so BT is not so much an issue for me in this case), but he wouldn't be countered by OoO anymore. I can live with both, but would prefer the second scenario, bc OoO annoys me far more than hook bombing.
"About his add-ons: I'm sure the devs had good intentions with the slow down ones. The problem is, 90% of players who use them are using them for Forever Freddy. Slow down add-ons, starting in dream world, then Ruin and PGTW on top of that. Maybe Thana too. It's hands down the most boring thing I've ever encountered in this game. No one likes holding M1 on gens in general, let alone for a good 2 minutes for a single gen.
I think there is a misconception about the impact of the slowdown addons. The annoyance of the slowdown builds for Freddy originates form the used perks and his superior ability to control gens. He could play with ruin and surveillance alone, no slowdown addons, no Thana, no dying light, so your repair speed is unaffected. But still totally deny your progress. Is that Forever Freddy as well?
The two minute gen might be exaggerated, from 80s to 120s would be a slowdown of 33%. That might be reachable, but would required many Dying Light stacks. If it has come this far, you are likely to lose anyway.
I find it most boring to face a killer I'm feeling helpless against. Like facing a god nurse. That's super boring for me, since it totally doesn't matter what I do, she will slaughter me. Against Freddy there's at least a chase involved, even with snares. Against such a god-tier nurse, it's hide or die. And both is super boring.
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What these 3 killers have in common is they are boring to verse, which is the biggest issue and source of many complaints imo. For me personally I try to avoid them as much as possible, because I don't enjoy playing as/against them for the reason mentioned above.
As a survivor you are devoid of interaction against Deathslinger or Spirit, because the only thing you are left with against them is to guess whether they ######### up or not.
Freddy on the other hand brings "boringness" on whole new level. He can snare you to death, what can I say about this one, it's a slowdown mechanic that forces you to leave one place to another, where the same scenario happens all over again and the worst thing about snares is they aren't limited and there's not any kind of cooldown either. On top of that he counters BT and has teleport, which can be faked. I'm a huge Freddy fan, but it's heartbreaking to see him more hated than before rework.
In the end we all play to have fun and these killers aren't fun to play against for most of the survivors. I'm not necessarily asking for nerfs, but they should rather make them more interactive for both sides.
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I agree with most of what you said. Just two things:
"Don't the two sentences contradict themself? If the Freddy chases and downs someone else, you don't need your BT for save"
While that is true, most people play solo. Meaning, I have no idea whether he's chasing someone else or not. I have no idea if I should be going for the save. If I am on one side of the map, and my hooked teammate is on the other, it's usually beneficial for me to stay on a gen and let a teammate unhook them. But, oh wait, someone else just got downed, and now I know to go help.
"He could play with ruin and surveillance alone, no slowdown addons, no Thana, no dying light, so your repair speed is unaffected. But still totally deny your progress. Is that Forever Freddy as well?"
No that isn't Forever Freddy, but you aren't even talking about what I said. No Freddy solely uses Ruin and Surveillance. Forever Freddy players almost always use BBQ/Ruin/Pop/Thana or something similar to that. So bringing up this issue of Ruin/Surveillance has nothing to do with what I am talking about: The fact that 90% of people abuse his slow-down add-ons along with that build for an extremely long and boring game.
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The only killer that needs a nerf is Spirit. Other killers are perfectly fine imo.
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i'm honestly fascinated whenever you, right now, get people that call for adding a 'cooldown' to e.g. Deathslinger, and then hop into the next thread about billy and say how unfair an added cooldown is...
whut?
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As a Spirit main that's the purpose of Spirit, and why I enjoy playing against her because of the gamble, and not relying on the same tactics. I would rather be forced to do something different rather than just loop the killer into oblivion or use the same mindgame tactic.
From a killer perspective I don't have a problem with looping. I have a problem with the advantage survivor's have in looping (meaning constantly peeking around the corner for the red stain or the killer) and that killers have to use the same tactics just to get the advantages.
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Yes! You are entitled to your own opinion, but the reason why survivor's call these killers boring is because you can't mindlessly loop them into oblivion, and that is entitlement!
Have you ever thought from from a killer perspective on why they play that killer? It's because of looping. It might be fun for survivor's but dealing with looping as a killer is brain dead boring and we like using these killers because they can do something about looping to spice it up or not deal with it.
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I really hate how often people describe powerful things as boring.
"This [blank] is too good so it's so boring to play against!"
Boring feels like an empty buzzword now because it just applies to anything that makes someone play differently. I see it used by survivors all the time to describe anything that isn't:
*run around pallet and drop and run to next one*
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Freddy: All alarm clocks should be active, not just one.
Spirit: She needs an indicator shen she phases.
Deathslinger has no map pressure. He seems fine.
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ScottJund made an excellent video addressing why Deathslinger and Spirit are not fun for survivors. It's called: "Boring Killers" - Are Survivor Complaints Valid.
The short and sweet of it is: Survivor players have learned a lot of skills in this game to use against Killers, such as jukes, looping and mind games. The problem with Deathslinger and Spirit is you have to guess at what they are doing. It's no fun for survivor players because survivor players are not using any type of skills to avoid those to killers, it's basically a guess or random roll of the die if you will avoid them or not. There's no skill a survivor can use against them that makes a difference. Hence they're boring to play against as survivors.
Freddy is different, he's not boring to play against, he's just hard to play against. But survivor players have options and skills they can use against Freddy.
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Give Deathslinger a bigger terror radius and he's trash. Would be a straight downgrade from Huntress considering that she throws planet-sized hitboxes and can ACTUALLY DOWN YOU with her power.
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Deathslinger is controversial? He's quite weak, IMO. A poor man's Huntress.
Spirit is fine now they nerfed prayer beads and gave her a vaulting animation.
Freddy definitely needs some kind of nerf.
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