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Question from new Killer.
I just started playing Killer. As killer I get out played by survivors all the time and it's cool with me. I've been working my way down to rank 9 right now. I normally play at ~2am, EST, and go against all red rank survivors which is weird to me. I guess this game has been around a while and everyone is red rank.
But the lower in rank I go I have noticed something that is kinda killing my enjoyment as killer. It seems like survivors know what perks I'm using, where I am running, and how I play during matches. For example: As Freddy I will be running to a gen and survivors will break off working on that gen and run when I'm half way across the map from them! They can't see me and they are not near my terror radius so how do they know I am going to their location? Or when playing the Clown I will run around looking for survivors for 2min and not find anyone because they are hiding. I will chase 1 person and BAM across the entire map a gen turns yellow from discordance. Then when I break chase to go to that gen and BAM it goes red again instantly and the survivors are long gone when I show up.
Or I will chase a player for 30sec around the entire map and when he goes down 3 other ppls are hiding not 10m from the place I downed the survivor to flashlight save or distract me. I don't feel like I am playing against 4 different people. I feel like I am playing against 4 beings that share 1 hive mind.
Are other killers experiencing this? Is this a get gud situation and things will change as I get better?
Comments
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Me @ all the people lined up rn to inform them that playing against low rank survivors is absolute hell and they all have comms and literal hundreds of hours more than them in the game and to run and never look back
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The issues are perks and swf. Perks like Spine Chill tell survivors you’re coming at them from well outside your terror radius. Furthermore, many of them will simply assume you’re using bbq and relocate after a few seconds since a hook.
If there’s an OoO in play, then that’s gonna cause you major problems and is very likely part of a SWF team it’s Comms. Essentially they’ll say things like “hey it’s a Trapper and he’s headed for the shack. Come work this gen on the hill with me.”
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Spine Chill perk tells the survivors you are heading their way.
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Hopefully as I learn the maps and get more exp I can counter SWF with comms. I'd assume that what good killers are doing.
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9/10 SWFs aren't that good and ######### themselves over by playing cocky. Comms do not mean they win automatically. They'll have more information and that's it. Sure, you'll face the occasional SWAT team SWF and it sucks, but even they are beatable.
Your main problem right now is you lack experience and it's usually easy to tell when people are new to the game on both sides and people like to be mean to them. There are people with 10k plus hours in this game and you're just now starting. Don't let people try and get you scared of the SWF boogie man that's apparently gen rushing them and DSing them 4 times in a row before their adrenaline pops ever single game.
When you get a bit more game knowledge, hours under your belt, meta perks, and a killer you enjoy and learn you'll be 4king in no time.
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Stick with it. There's a ton to learn in this, and that just takes a bunch of experience. I'm a Killer main, and it took me a while to come to grips with a lot of the more subtle aspects of the game. I had a strong motivation though... I have to understand these things to do my work! :D
But seriously, I still find playing Killer a lot of fun after all this time. Just keep at it.
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A lot of toxic survivor players like to keep a low rank, because they are to bad at facing anything above a rank 15 killer.
Generally they are in a group with an unfair disadvantage. Solo queue players could be dropping rank to, but they are less likely.
Just need to practice.
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You're encountering swf, which is annoying for sure. They act like a hive mind because they are talking with each other. Its completely unfair, but the dev's won't do anything about it, see Almo basically telling to you git gud.
So yeah, either watch every killer streamer you can and eventually adapt to this crap, or find another game, because it won't get any better. Also, accept that a good swf is unbeatable.
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A common scenario when an SWF has three-genned themselves is to send their best looper out to drag you to the other end of the map. In this scenario, try and get a hit or pallet dropped and then head back to where you know they are doing the gens. Ideally you will catch their scratch marks after the looper lets their friends know you are running back. Again, try to get a pallet or a hit out of whoever you find. Hopefully you can eventually make the area a dead zone, getting hits and destroying nearby pallets. All of which is great experience.
If you are clearly outmatched by your opposition, try to use it as a learning experience otherwise you can easily get frustrated with the matchmaking.
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😱 I thought all the devs were survivor mains 😱
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Good luck with that friend, playing against 4 swf you are at a massive disadvantage, although those who play only survivor will say no. You have 2 options to accept defeat and go to a corner to make them go faster or try to improve but there is not much you can do.
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Yeah, as others have said, you're pretty much just seeing the effects of all the extra information SWF's have at their disposal.
You can see it in the almost instantaneous reactions to your chases. Start chasing someone and boom, Discordance instantly lights up a gen. Break off the chase and it instantly goes away.
It's a massive advantage that you really have no counter to. All you can do is hope that they're really, really bad and even the advantages don't make up for it.
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Aren't you supposed to not be "x side main" as a part of the balance team? How can you make unbiased and fair changes for everyone if you play one side more than the other?
Maybe that's why survivors keep getting bad perks.
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I do this by considering both sides (S/K) of every adjustment we make. Just because I prefer playing Killer does not mean that I don't care about what it's like to play for Survivors. Just as one example I pushed for the Kindred update where it now shows auras to you if you have it and someone else is on the hook. :)
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Because being unbiased in a professional capacity is completely different to your own personal choice of which side you have more enjoyment playing.
I enjoy playing survivor more - and I think you will see from my posts on this forum for example, that I advocate for fairness for both sides and I understand the frustrations from both sides. Plus Almo didn't say he didn't play Survivor, he just said he preferred to play Killer.
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^This. SWF is great when you're playing survivor, but as the killer it's an absolute pain. The biggest downside about SWF for the Killer is knowing that those who have died can still feed information back to their teammates from the camera feeds of other players.
For example, let's say that there's a three SWF team, and the fourth person is a random player. Let's say that one member of the SWF team dies. Well despite being dead, they can still talk to their teammates and flip back and forth through various camera feeds. While doing so they notice that the random player found the hatch, and one of their SWF teammates happens to have a key. That dead team member can now communicate back to the rest of his/her teammates the location of the hatch, all because they saw it through another player's camera feed.
As others have stated, Killers have no counter to something like this, which makes the information obtained through SWF incredibly over powered.
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Did you really just call out a BHVR employee just because they offered words of encouragement to a new player?
I mean, that's what it looks like, but that's too ridiculous to be true, right? Right?
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At that time of night, it's more than likely all you'll see is SWF squads. Doesn't make them unbeatable, but it does make the job harder. Your goal is to identify the weak link, and take them down. This usually triggers musical hooks, and you'll have most of the squad on death hooks quickly. If you feel you're up against a SWAT squad (matching names, everyone has flashlights or toolboxes, matching characters and cosmetics) grab a green or pink Mori, removing one quickly makes your job easier. Note I don't reccomend moris for just a regular SWF, just the ones that are more likely to be toxic, since you have no obligation to let them have fun if they don't want you to enjoy yourself.
And above all, ignore their trash talk post game. Especially if they run the full meta perk package, which will give them around 10 extra chances to not die, which should be used to make a misplay less punishing, but in practice makes a risky play completely safe.
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It's all very simple, really - their entire decision making and balancing is done around keeping the survivor population happy and playing so they keep buying those extremely overpriced cosmetics. Survivors FAR outweigh killers in terms of numbers so keeping them happy and playing makes sense from a business perspective (the same business perspective that killed so many games before DbD).
They balance the game with the above in mind, first and foremost. Secondly, the balance is done around a game where the survivors are supposedly each playing alone, with no way of communicating with eachother other than in-game mechanics and their game knowledge.
As you can see, these things are heavily impacted by the fact they introduced a new way to play the game, without actually acknowledging the fact that it is a new way of playing the game. I am ofc talking about the SWF or Survive With Friends where you can bring up to 4 friends into your game, be on voice chat and then proceed to abuse all the mechanics the game affords.
Remember the part about the game being balanced around having 4 strangers to eachother surviving against a mad killer? Yeah, that part. It gets extremely overpowered against all but the very best 200iq killers in the game. They make use of complementing builds and play certain roles where they micromanage every action and perk usage to the absolute second. This is easily achieved by even bad SWFs considering all the 2nd chance perks in the game and the fact that the entire shabang caters to survivors making a ton of mistakes and being excused and given escape opportunities from basically any situation.
To conclude, the Devs are outright lying to the killer community and base all their decisions around the monetary aspect of the game aka the survivor bros, who invest tons of $$$ into the game. The killers are kept just barely relevant and happy, enough to make them come back for more (up until the point where every killer main is going to get burned out with this cycle) to keep games going.
Don't listen to what the development team is SAYING, see what they DO and the types of changes they implement. Sound advice for real life as well - be cynical and always assume there is an ulterior motive to things people say and do. Most times, you will be surprised that having this view actually shows you the truth..or just "Live, Love, Laugh" and PMA yourself into oblivion.
Post edited by ins0 on4 -
It is something that will come with experience but at the cost of your sanity
Also while learning everything that this game has you'll experience BM and toxicity as the playerbase has yet to acknowledge that players are still learning and trying different things
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As a relatively new player myself, I have to say that the issue is that there's no incentive to just "stick with it" when it feels like most matches are miserable and flat out not fun. I'm not being paid to play this game, I paid to play it...
"Oh, just stick it out" seems like an awful mindset to have.
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- Of course they do.
- They were. It also allows for add-ons to have actual purpose and variety.
- They're all ONE USE ONLY. Except for Dead Hard, which is an Exhaustion perk and doesn't work half the time.
- No it hasn't.
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NoED is run in quite a few killers lately, and it's GOOD that they're condition. Just like the survivor equivalents. It's just that the survivor ones are generally used to cover mistakes on both sides, or they're all killer action related.
Decisive Strike is probably the single best example of this. It can be used blatantly and cover doing things in the killer's face (that's the both) or it can actually punish legit tunnellers.
I do also distinctly remember the abilities of Myers, GF, Oni, Hillbilly and perks such as Haunted Ground being around for ages and they're all what one might consider a "second chance" with being an instant down.
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SWF + comms.
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Lmfao I saw like 3 of your posts in your forum and they all shout “I’m so terribly bad at the game and blame others instead of getting better myself” geez
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Off topic to your choice of cosmetics. I don't even get why I, as a killer-only main, should even bother buying killer cosmetic other than weapons. I myself can't even see them to enjoy.
Edit: Ah wait I forgot you see your killer when you Mori. But hey we all know how much survivor like to be more even at third hook.
And to our dear dev comment, "suck it up" is a great help.
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And YOU are clearly killer biased. Also I'd say it's pretty balanced rn. All that needs to be gone is keys and moris. Then I'd say it's balanced.
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I didn't mean to call out anyone or to be disrespectful. I was simply asking a question and Almo answered it, no need for drama. The reason I asked in the first place is because Almo said he needs to play killer to be able to balance the game. Then my question was very natural: isn't the same thing true for survivor? Does he need to play survivor to be able to do his job properly?
My post was a genuine question, sorry it got interpreted in a wrong way.
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Unfortunately killers will still tunnel anyway. There is also the issue of DS users going in for risky unhooks, but I also fear that if we start adding conditions, the perk will actually be worthless.
But if anyone also abuses the piwer of DS against me, they WILL die next.
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Get used to events like this. Treat it like a casual experience. Dont take the game seriously and if possible just skip endgame chat, though abuse of rng is usually what leads to toxic end game chat.
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I mean..you can't go on what's arguably the worst killer in the game without (decent) add-ons and no perks (he's at lvl 5 so you should at least have 2 perk slots) and expect not to suffer, considering you were r13 at the time so there was an increased chance of getting red ranks.
I think you did okish, considering you managed to get the rank5 down and they had flashlights + sweaty movement perks (+ the score overall for every player is at around 20k which means stuff happened, it wasn't a one sided fiesta like the end result might seem to indicate).
Generally, the perk unlocking situation is in of itself a problem. I played a lot of games on perkless survivors or with just 1 perk and I managed to come out with the top score/ most unhooks/ most gens done, etc. Granted, that wasn't at a very high rank level but if you look at the killer side, you suffer way more as killer for trying to get away with the same stuff as a survivor might.
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I play both and yes the game is very much survivor sided. Even playing solo que the road to rank one was a cake walk in comparison to playing killer. In an asymmetrical game that is far from being balanced. I should fear the killer not bully him.
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