Why new players leave
Dbd has a lot of updates that attracts new players, like, for example, stranger things. However, the game fails miserably when it comes to keeping these attracted players. The new player experience is terrible for 2 reasons: the grind and the bad matchmaking.
First of all, the new player has 1 perks, no items and no offerings. Then, they will very probably be matched against people who have a full builds and strong items&add ons. This will make it so that in addition of having the disadvantage of being new to the game, they will have an artificial difficulty that is out of their control, which will make the game frustrating for them.
Then, new players suffer from matchmaking. I am not gonna mention how long the killer queue times can be, I am just gonna talk about noob players with pro players. Rank 20 players often get matched with high ranks and get destroyed because of not having any experience vs pro players. They will stand no chance.
And now, I am gonna reply to 2 comments in advance:
"NeWs PlaYUr GIt guD By PLaYurg EgAINst BetURE PluYeRs". The first thing you do after buying a game is trying it so see if it is fun. These players will then try to get better. Fun fact: players that leave a game because it is frustrating do not git gud at it. And it is not their fault: if 10 games in a row the game throws crap at them, their choice of leaving it will be logical. Now, lets answer a comment that is not made by bully squad swf:
"the devs will change the matchmaking so that it does not make baby players go against pro players". If only that could be true. I do not really trust these devs: when dedicated servers came in, we though it was gonna be good, yet it caused hitboxes to become even more broken and grabs to be canceled.
In conclusion: I am gonna give my ideas:
1) New players should be able to unlock 4 perks at max level for 1 character (4 perks that are not specific to a survivor). This would allow them to play the game without a ridiculous disadvantage.
2) Only match gray ranks with gray ranks and remove the ability for rank reset to push players back in the gray ranks. This would allow new players to not fight against 3000 hours mega pro players.
And now, there comes the unhappy smurfs that will yell in the comment section. Anyways, I will do my best to answer everyone.
Comments
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And then theres people in this game with over 7,000+ hours so obviously its them not the game.
The way people complain in this game about ranks and match making, I cant imagine how these gamers must react if they play a battle game like PUBG,... you are thrown into the lions dens with 100 players, and git gud is very much required.
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The problem is not the game, but the players nowadays, everybody wants to be good without hours of playing.
When I started dbd it was late 2018, the game wasn't new, I played with good players and I was with my Claudette with only one perk. Now I'm red ranks. I started by hiding in lockers, now I know how to loop.
The new matchmaking is coming soon, but I can guaranteer you that new players still won't stay. Some of them will, the one who loves to train and be better players, but 3/4 of them, the ones who just cares about winning (like the new generation of gamers) will not stay.
The problem is : the new generation of gamers.
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The problem goes beyond that. Many who join this game do so thinking this is what it is branded as, somewhat of a party game with jump scares and fun. It has a casual feel when you are looking at the description. I hear this from a lot of new players. When you get into the game, it is very toxic, and has hardcore players that want to win at all costs. They have zero interest in the party/fun atmosphere. The game mechanics feed into the toxicity. I mean look at the perks and powers. They feed the idea of camping, tunneling, looping, hook swarming (looking at you Sabo), etc. It nourishes every bad element in a person so the gameplay becomes far from fun, and deep into the toxic arena.
If you are a horror fan and see DbD advertised, you see a game that looks like it would be a blast! With killers popping out of nowhere and you running scared while trying to work on gens in a chaotic effort to escape. You log in and you face a 3k hour Billy who tunnels your arse out of the game in less then 2 minutes. WTH was that?! There was nothing scary about that. It was just frustrating. I did not even get to play. Let me try that one more time. Here comes that Bubba that player that purposely tries to face low rank players so he can face camp them. Wait, he put me on the hook but he is standing here and nobody can get me. That was boring! Ok, ok, I'll try killer. First up - a group of newbie solo players. I got a 3k, that was fun! Next match, hit squad SWF that chased the killer with flashlights and sabo boxes all match. That was the most frustrating thing that player ever experienced in a game! What was that? I thought the killer was supposed to be scary, I ran scared from them the whole match! (All references to "I" are the hypothetical new player.)
Yeah, this game has/had promise out the wazoo. The player base should be hundreds of thousands, but the management and enforcement in the game is an absolute joke. They've let the game become this weird red-headed stepchild of a horror game filled with frustrated players that can feel there is something better here, but just can't seem to get to it.
BHVR just needs to step up their game and do this right. Revamp if need be, but get some developers that understand cause and effect. Ones that can look at a new perk/power and anticipate how it will synergize with others in the game, or how it might be exploited to cause high levels of frustration (looking at MoM's original release there).
Get this game where it needs to be.
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The game was more fun when I was new.
At the start survivors actually got hook saves, healed others, found totems, and did gens. But as you rank up survivors do less and less and just focus on gens.
At the start killers actually chased survivors, and pressured gens and made the game fun. As you rank up killers camp and make the match a complete waste of time. Nurse is the only killer I enjoy playing against because they are the only ones who attempt to play the game and pressure gens.
DBD is a fun idea. But its design is poorly executed and the devs seem to have zero ambition to fix that.
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I think the matchmaking system is the main culprit to why new players don't seem to stay for too long.
Queues, especially for killer, is super long and gives of the impression that the game's dead (or broken, if they check up the total amount of players playing atm) and then the matchmaking system throws them together with people who don't below in the 16-20 ranks. Heck, we've seen many screenshots basically confirming that red ranks can be matched with first time players and that should never EVER happen in any game with a matchmaking system.
I'd love to see statistics showing how long an average player stays for. If you check the Steam global achievements, only 50% of players have managed to get from rank 20 to 19.. and I am not sure what I feel about that.
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It's been a month since I stopped playing DBD, I come back here to watch the news but nothing more.
I stayed one year and more, the nerve of the nurse was too much! "Playing with another killer," I paid for the cosmetics for that killer!! I paid so much for this game, I regret it... this will be the last time!
Discret killer = survivor with a spine chill break the gameplay.. exemple some others
Today I'm playing Resident Evil Resistance... Yes, this game is a bit unbalanced but it has the advantage of being recent so with new updates... and I have more fun than on DBD ! Levels 1 to 200, I never meet the same players, it's a challenge ! My friends don't want to play DBD anymore... I often meet DBD players on Resident evil... LOL coincidences? No ! Resident evil Resistance has the same problem as DBD, the survivors are strong ! But still we enjoy playing as a killer, because the gameplay is less stressful unlike survivors !😀
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@DrDeepwound I never mentionned 7000 hours players. If they still fail then I agree. You then use as an argument an entirely different game that does not have anything to do with dbd.
@Anara well, if you get killed in 3 seconds, you do not have the occasion to git gud.
@Pryzm you are right
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Matchmaking and lack of a real training mode.
The PC tutorial is a joke. Even the mobile version has a better tutorial. There's a pretty high learning curve for this game to not get absolutely stomped as a new player with broken matchmaking.
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Actually that's how it should be on DBD... the survivor should feel the anguish, not the killer !
Nerf on nerf = kill the game !
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@Jill10230 dbd is not an horror game. If survivors die every game, they will not be scared, they will just be frustrated.
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You totally missed the entire point of the post. New players who leave a game after they die too many times is the player, not the game.
Carebear mentality is not new in games, I mentioned PUBG because theres simply no way the likes of these defeatist attitude minded players could handle PVP games.
This is a PVP game, I treat it as such.
"I got killed too fast" is not part of my vocabulary.
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I feel like it's partially the grind and MMA system. I think they need to revisit the tutorial, you learn only basic survivor mechanics but nothing about the killers. You'll have to figure that out along the way. This worked when there weren't so many different killers but now it will take quite some time to vs every killer let alone figure out how to counter. It is ridiculous that new players go down to deep wound, hide against killer instinct, stare down myers, try to leave the exit gate with an active beartrap etc just because they don't know. You learn the hard way which can be unfun. If you don't immeadiately realise why you died/ went down you will make that mistake again.
I've started on console and now also play on pc working up again. I know my killers from my console experience and it is staggering to see how punishing the low ranks are because of the lack of knowledge the tutorial gives you. People going down to deep wound is just sad. And with myers the whole team gets cucked because someone fed him his tiers by accident.
New players come for the gameplay and iconic chapters but struggle with the steep learning curve.
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The grind needs to be lessened for new players, especially killers.
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Lmfao, how do you git gud at a broken casual game?
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My main point of contention is with your statement that the problem is with the new generation of gamers. As I said in my post, I think the main problems are in game design and how the game is advertised. The game attracts horror fans and sells itself in many ways as a fun, jump-scare, almost casual party game but turns out to be a hardcore toxic fight-fest.
The problem is with the current generation of gamers that can't take a step back and say, hey, these guys I'm facing are obviously not too good, I'll take the foot off the pedal and try to have some fun here. There is zero, I mean zero, sportsmanship in this current generation of gamer. The old-school guys still remember what it was like to act like an oppressive arse while playing a game in front of another person. It often ended with a fat lip and no friends. They tend to play games with those lessons in mind. This current generation grew up behind a monitor and have no empathy or concept of casual gameplay.
Don't blame people for wanting a more laidback experience in a game that comes off as a fun jump-scare party game. This is not Call of Duty. If someone goes into Call of Duty expecting casual and fun gameplay, they are delusional.
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People can't accept being killed by the killer.. what are they doing on DBD ?
How many reports on Xbox has my reputation been ruined? That's because every time I play, four survivors report to me...
Again I find that it all depends on the people and the nerves the killers are undergoing = survivors OP = the killers become less sympathetic with the survivors !
The problem with frustration killer is the nerve... keep going to the nerve and they'll become worse than nasty (camping, tbag, no chance..) ! I play survivor too and i see the toxic action of the survivor.. like the gate, like with the pallets.. the game need a big update !
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Where is this game marketed as casual? I just looked over the steam page and it is sold as a "team based survival horror PVP game"
not one word about it being casual. Casual games are games like Golf With Friends, this game is not casual in any way or definition
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Guess because of toxicity and because, you see basically already on rank20 people that have derank on purpose with hundrets or thousands of hours of gametime.
They are not always that good, but they will for sure destroy every beginner survivor and killer.
Edit: Not that I have something against people who do this. I can everybody understand, who do not like to stay in the higher ranks.
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@slunder I have to say I love you points, and they' re interesting for sure. I can totally see that being an issue for some.
Failing miserably at the game didn't and doesn't bother me. I get crushed like a bug often.
What did me in was the toxic players: griefers, teammates that body block - or out you to the killer, teammates worknig with the killer.
End game chat that was so incredibly abusive it was shocking.
That's what nearly did me in.
Had I not found these forumsto be so nice - the game would have been sold and / or deleted. Coming here was my last resort and was the final call on what I did next.
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I'm referring to how it is perceived by many new players when they first buy the game. It is not seen as a hardcore game. There are several people who join this game thinking it is something it is not. This game is not marketed as a hardcore pvp game. We can get into semantics or you can just talk to new players. I know when I joined the game it was due to a link from a site promoting "party horror games to play with friends". Yeah, not exactly the right description for it.
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I agree but I'm not a tryharder, I was in the past, when I had more time to play, now I'm a casual player because I'm older. But I know that I can't be good with few hours, it's the same in every game, time = skill
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I can understand that, but I dont really play easy games and never expected this to be easy. When I purchased this game, I was playing PUBG and Darkest Dungeon. I never expcted this to be some easy game, its sold as a 4v1 which by definition = competitive PVP. I was turned off heavily by the looting in PUBG, and liked that there was no looting and shooting in DbD,.... (before Huntress was added) having to loot every match was why I stopped playing PUBG and now have over 1700 hours in this game.
But I guess if people assume things it could be misinterpreted, but I always watch a streamer play a game before I buy them after I foudn twitch so theres no misleading idea of what the game is like
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I hope you did not think I was implying that you, specifically, were a tryharder. That was not the intention.
I agree, the game takes time to improve, but that is harder and harder with the increase in toxic playstyles and the 1k+ hour players trying to feed on new players. This game should be swarmed with players because the base concept of it is an absolute blast. I can honestly say that there are few games more fun when one of the following occurs:
- A really good killer keeps me and the other survivors off-balance and on the run during a match. He seems to always pop up where we are, mind games well, and ultimately destroys all or most of us. The match was tense, filled with engagement with the killer and likely has plenty of BP for all
- A silly killer is meme'ing. I've seen some absolutely hilarious killers toy around in this game. Had a GF who was total creeper and could come out of nowhere. We had "Drive-Thru" Bubba who loved to stand at windows and act stupid. Jiggly clown who would dance around when he downed someone. Superstitious Billy was my favorite though. He would not cross through doorways unless one of us walked him through it, then he'd resume chase. My God, it was the funniest match I've ever had. We refused to leave at the end, even though he was trying to let us go. Greedy Hag was fun too. Ran Franklin's and when she knocked something out of your hand, she defended it with a vengeance. We eventually stopped doing gens and focused on getting the map off the ground. She 4k'd, but it was so much fun!
- A group of survivors meme'ing around. 4 DK's who all brought Healing Kits. They kept trading the healing kits back and forth. We half-heartedly played, but when I'd get them cornered, they'd offer their healing kid. The Baby David was given hatch.
- A good group of survivors that make me step up my game without getting all toxic. I had one of those last night with my Freddy match. It was a lot of fun and we actually had great conversation afterwards (I know, hard to believe).
Unfortunately, these are maybe 1 in 25 or 1 in 30 match scenarios. Many matches are with unimaginative hardcore players who seem to think their entire life depends on crushing their enemies, seeing them driven before them, and hearing the lamentation of the women.
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I’ve always said the starting experience for people in this game is the worst. Especially with how killer is pay to win. Majority of the good perks being locked behind a paywall AND then a giant grind.
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I love Darkest Dungeon. Fun game. For me, a challenge is great. I love competition. But, I am also an old school sportsman. I believe in respecting the game, respecting my opponent, but winning. There is very, very, very little of that in this generation of players. Many of them grew up as keyboard warriors and never learned empathy or consequences for words and actions. That's why simple words hurt them so much now. Sad, sad state of affairs. See my post above though - I truly think this game has so much potential and could be lots of fun.
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English is not my first language it's maybe why I though you was saying that, but anyway don't worry, if you had say that I wasnt offended.
Back to the subject ; I think a competitive mode could be the solution. You can't pkay in competitive mode until you are devotion 1 maybe?
The old players who wants hard games can go in this mode, with a real rank system, and the new players go in the normal mode.
Like.. Many games did that and it works
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I feel as a new player the grind is fun and its something to look forward to, for some people at least. However I 1000% agree with you about the matchmaking. My friend bought this game last week after having watched me play it for years, and every single killer game he has played, its been against some form of SWF with either red ranks, or purple ranks in it, and maybe 1 rank 20.
New players should NEVER be forced to play against anything like that, survivor or killer. It is such a huge turn off to people when you start a new game and immediately are unable to even have fun.
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I think the best thing they could do is truly open up 'Custom Game' mode. Allow players to make modifications in that mode. Limit perks, or alter gen speeds, penalize camping or perhaps create different game modes like 2 v 8 or whatever they want. Give some serious creative freedom there. Create a lobby for Custom Games and let players join games they see fit to join. If I am running a game where the killer gets penalized for staying near the hook, and gen times are slowed down, it is up to other players as to whether they want to join that. Get rid of the lack of BP in Custom Game. Let them earn BP and spend it on the character. Custom Game characters cannot be used in ranked matches. But, ranked characters can be copied over to Custom Games one time.
By doing this, you don't really split the player base by much, and you eliminate people's complaints about camping, tunneling, NOED, Adrenaline, DS, etc. If you don't like those things, start a match in Custom Game that limits their use. If you play in ranked play, STFU and play. By having a lobby in Custom Game, you allow people to chat, maybe break off into third party chat, etc and meet other players that want to play the style of game they enjoy.
There is money to be made in this as well. Pay a monthly fee for a private chat room where you can invite like-minded players in to discuss the setup for a game. Perhaps have some advanced modifications available for purchase. Maybe charge a one-time fee to even access Custom Game lobby. That is the only way to access the modified game modes. And, this works well for research and development. If BHVR sees that an abundance of players seem to like playing with a certain custom modification, they can build on that for future release. Even game modes can be included later.
Honestly, it's a win/win. It eliminates the legitimate ability to complain about certain aspects of the game, like perk use. If you don't like the perks, start a game without their use.
I think this would attract lots of new players and be a great tool for BHVR to use. I would be willing to pay a reasonable one-time fee for such an expansion as I imagine it would be costly to do. $10-15 would be ideal, but perhaps a bit more.
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Well, I think best would be, if Survivors would be able to sort 1-10 killer perks out and killers 1-10 survivor perks in such a mode.
Otherwise I can already yet see threads about "couldn't choose NOED, but they all had DS and that after they said, they wouldn't use it!!!".
Besides that, sounds like a great idea :).
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The matchmaking system, the grind and the lack of a training/casual mode are mainly why players don’t stay for long.
The mobile version released only two months ago and it’s already getting a Training Mode. Can you believe it??
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Simple solution is making the settings visible to anyone in the game's lobby. So you can see that DS and NOED are both turned "off". Once ready is hit, you can't change the rules unless everyone hits "unready". Simple fix.
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I think the biggest detriment to this game is just the grind, pure and simple. The number of people who are turned off by it and the fact it only keeps growing is pretty large. I'm at 510 hours now. I still don't have every killer leveled with at least perks to where I'd like them. All of my survivors are over 40 but maybe half only at 50. I haven't prestiged anyone either since again, I got a lot of work to do on my killers. That's a lot of time to not have at least one character maxed with all perks on at least one side.*
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Agreed. Yes the game has a lot of flaws, yes the matchmaking is bad and the fact that a 4 year old game that focuses only on ranked has a broken matchmaking system and no training mode however the grind is the number one reason behind the majority of players leaving.
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Pubg everyone starts on a level playing field
Everyone starts on the same plane and has the same opportunity , if you are better you know hot spots to aim for weapons ECT , but you don't get to run fast your fist don't do more dmg , you don't get special vision
Fist vs fist
When you start dbd you start 1 perk not upgraded , vs potentially a 4 maxed killer
1 level 1 perk vs 4 level 3 perks
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It's all about the individual player and their reason for playing. This is not a game for anyone that wants a low stress experience. If you start playing this game because you are looking for a cartoony Mario type of horror experience this isn't it, and you are going to be disappointed. As a survivor main I can only speak to playing survivor so I will use that to form my examples.
- There are 134 perks in this game between the two sides that make things behave differently from game to game. Throw in items, add-ons, and killer abilities besides perks and you have a steep learning curve to play this game effectively. If you don't want to commit to understand how they all work, interact, and change things up it can be extremely frustrating. What you did last match may get a different result the next match. If you aren't willing to figure out why that is the case much of this game can make zero sense.
- Getting camped or tunneled isn't going to be something a person that is looking for a simple fun game is going to enjoy.
- Being slugged and left to crawl around is not part of a fun experience for someone that is just wants simple and easy.
- The people you are playing against are more than likely not in this for simple and easy. It gets sweaty. I mean we had a post on this forum just the other day where a killer was bothered at how hard they had to work to get a 4k every single match.
In other words if you enjoy a game that requires a lot of effort and strategy to play well DBD has got that going strong. If you want a game that doesn't require those things you aren't going to stick with this one. It simply isn't designed that way.
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Dude, i have 150 hours. It is HUGE time investment from my side. HUGE, basically i play only 2 games now, beat'emup sometimes and DBD. Game is designed worse than F2P, because in F2P games i could buy progress to save my time, here i buy DLC and i cannot use it without hours of grind. Should i quit my job and farm BP in DBD just to play?
Not everyone is nolife. So loop out of here with this "git gud" attitude. The problem with players nowadays is thinking, everyone should have 10000 hours to waste just because they have so much free time. One day you will have a job kiddo, maybe even your own kid if cybersex will be already invented, then you will understand.
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A signup bonus of two million blood points would help them get some decent items to use off the bat.
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Dude 150hours is nothing! I'm casual player and I know 150hours is not enough to get better, in EVERY video game
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Getting matched up with or against players far more experienced or inexperienced than yourself is dead by daylight's biggest issue. No one wants to get wrecked over and over again, especially when you're playing killer. Killers are what you should fear in this game, but sweaty swf are the real threat. I've had so many bad experiences with toxic swf that I'm purposefully waiting until the new matchmaking is implemented on PS4 before I play any more killer. Which is sad given that there so few killer mains on PS4 already.
Dbd is a lot of fun to play, but the toxicity is what prevents this game from expanding it's player base. The only reason why certain swf groups can bully a killer is because the game gives them the tools to do so, otherwise survivors would stay as far from the killer as possible and not take the chance to body block, etc.
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One big thing: Where do you get the information from that new players quit the game early? In the whole life there were only two major drops in average players. The recent stats say DBD is exploding. So my guess is you are complaining about the game relating to your own preferences and opinions, but say it is some other's people problem to put some weight in it.
And if you just now a handful of people that quitted early: I just got a friend to play DBD and he escaped in the second match. Got his David to Lv ~50 maxxed out already (with no teachables of course) within a week. And he is pretty fascinated by the game, beneath the fact that almost every game he has to face a new killer with different playstyle.
March 2020 btw was the first time DBD reached the 30k. The 10 months before it was almost constantly at 20-23k
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Though I absolutely agree with you on what you said, don't leave out the toxicity of killers as well. I have several friends who play and are of varying ranks. I've watched their gameplay on streams and vids and the amount of hardcore off-the-hook tunneling is quite frankly...off-the-hook. In ranks 6-20 you might get 1 of 4 matches that is not a hardcore, ignore all other players, tunnel. Mileage may vary, but I find it hard to ignore their frustrations when I'm watching a rank 16 get tunneled out of a game in less than 2 minutes by a fully decked out P3 Billy who is rank 15, but handles Billy like a red rank. I've even seen many post game chats where the killer flat out admits he loves annoying players, regardless if they are lower rank than he should be.
The game feeds, allows, and even outright encourages the toxic behavior in game with how the perks, abilities, and items are set up. The only place they don't let you be toxic is when you might call someone a name on these forums. Here, they want to pretend to have a level of civility, which is a joke, but in game, be as much of a jerk as you want to be.
They hurt their own game with this crap. That is why I think an overhaul of Custom Game would do wonders for the player base. It would be a rare situation where it would improve the game immensely while also being a great opportunity for a cash grab. lol
EDIT: @Deadeye This game should have peak numbers well near 200k. It does not because retention is not good. It is not good due to the toxicity. The developers of this game have a low bar when it comes to their goals. I think many other teams would have this game roaring with players.
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well yeah red ranks /cried to the devs so hard about wait times till they finally opened matchmaking up to all ranks letting red ranks in with brown ranks for shorter wait times and easier matches to the detriment of the health, well being and future of their own game. Top tier community hand-holding for t3h win XD
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You're certainly not wrong about there not being sweaty Killers, because there certainly are! Personally I think they should incorporate bots into custom matches so that way people don't have to search for friends in order to get a non-toxic game going, plus it would give new players a chance to practice without having to worry about competing.
I am glad though that the developers fully admitted that ranks don't matter (which begs the question, "why then bother with rank resets?"). The new MMR obviously won't get rid of toxicity, but hopefully it can keep the casual DBD community playing with each other, and keep the toxic hardcore red rank community where they belong.
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I really like that bots idea. That would be great for new players.
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"why then bother with rank resets?"
There's only one real reason for rank reset, it is to cause players to play more to re-reach the previous rank, it serves no purpose.
Majority of players wouldnt play as much if their rank carried over to next month.
One word could answer it though: shareholders
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@Jill10230 It has hackers galore, the poisom is crap and just makes you useless, the zombies who have regen powers completely waste your ammo with crit headshots and now they added invincibility to zombies AND bosses. I hate that game.
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