We need a harsher punishment for the survivors who kill themselves on hook
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Killer's can't leave the game early without disconnecting, which goes against the idea of "People aren't bound to a game."
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i'm sorry, if this was done out of match functionality then i'd be all for it to be penalized. but you're asking for them to "check the frequency of someone doing something that is within the parameters of in match functionality and penalize them for doing it. this is not something anyone wants. if you want this go directly to behavior and suggest it, don't put it on the general boards. putting it here may get it noticed but it's whining because you don't like it. hell it's whining to keep talking about how bad disconnects are. penalizing something that is withing the limits of the game is like telling lebrohn james he can't dribble down the court faster than 1 mph every time. (yes i am being sarcastic but this is what you want, the rules of the game allow for this, does not mean you should be penalized for it, even if you do it often... hell Lebrohn james will always be moving down the court faster than 1mph!)
ALSO when dc penalties came in the first time, it was de-cried that there are a rash of deaths on first hook. BEHAVIOR has even come out and replied to this directly saying that while there was a small uptick in deaths on first hook there was not something that would make it concerning for the health of the game. this was stated several times and you are one of the people they told this too, and you didn't believe it then, now you are back de-crying this once again. STOP, just STOP.... I have answered each and everyone of your questions, I have proven to you that there are problems, and because you do not know much about children you are even ignoring that question of mine.... you want to believe you know the ins and outs of things. you think you have the answer, but you do not. please tell me what is too often. please tell me you know how many new players will understand that they HAVE to struggle or they will get temp banned for not doing it. sounds like a great idea....... i know 10 new players that just started two weeks ago, and they still even after I told them it's not the best to struggle when they have friends or teamers that are going to get them, still try to get off and then forget to struggle because they are distracted by something else.
You are not getting anywhere and even if you get 10 people to agree here on the forums they are but 10 of 60000 active players and do not come even close to one tenth of a percent of the players. of those 10 new players, they have each been on their own as well and asked me why are all these people disconnecting from the match? I tell them because they are selfish people, and well they don't care about anything but their own fun and will dc if you don't recover, if you die on hook, if the killer shakes their head, etc. and these new players said wow, I was thinking it was me! I'll stop playing! I told them no don't it's not them. and here you want to cause new players even more confusion? heck it's bad enough that TRU got hacked again and he's a lifetime player yet these newbies don't know the game like you or I do!
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For the window hitboxes, while I agree netcode is messed up and I've done and been given hits that shouldn't have hit, I can confirm being hit on the other side of window is actually intended. A window acts similar to a haddonfield fence where the killer can hit you on the other side of it.
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I am de-crying it because it can actively ruin a match similar to how a DC can ruin a match and can basically be used as an alternative to DCIng.
I support punishing excessive early game hook suicides. Simple as that
I have proven to you that there are problems
You haven't demonstrated a realistic scenario that would prompt someone to constantly attempt self-unhooking and then immediately die in the struggle phase within the first few minutes of the game. The idea that a cat and a baby are going to always try to start a fire in the house the moment you enter the struggle phase due to excessive failed attempts at self-unhooks isn't a realistic one.
you are even ignoring that question of mine
Sorry, I've been replying to multiple people in this thread. Which question are you referring to?
please tell me what is too often
~33% of games ending in intentionally forcing a one-hook within the first few minutes of the game seems like too much to me. It means you are ruining approximately one in every three games.
please tell me you know how many new players will understand that they HAVE to struggle or they will get temp banned for not doing it
New players will quickly that they have to struggle or they will die, which is good enough. BHVR recently added visual changes to the self-unhooking process to highlight the fact that it is a very risky idea and not something that should be done lightly.
i know 10 new players that just started two weeks ago, and they still even after I told them it's not the best to struggle when they have friends or teamers that are going to get them, still try to get off and then forget to struggle because they are distracted by something else.
I am unconvinced that they do it with such frequency that they should be punished for it.
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Yeah but I think the range is just excessive. I can see if the killer is standing right next to the window he is granted a hit through it on anyone that runs by or is exactly on the other side. But to lunge at the window and get a hit I don’t think so. The range should be shorter than being exactly next to it. But... that’s just my opinion.
also, while playing as killer the survivor movement is ridiculous. 180/360s shouldn’t be a thing. You’re the killer. That’s not going to happen in real life nor is it really a thing in any video game I’ve ever seen before. Nobody is 360ing Jason in Friday 13th.
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first of all i asked if you've even taken care of children, and you replied to the post ignoring the question so no i do not accept your reasoning "I am replying to so many here" you actively IGNORED it.
I have experienced <10% of my games having first hook intentional deaths, I have been watching Mclean's stream today and he has had NONE, I have not seen any in his previous streams, my friends that stream don't have a great many first hook deaths like you described. please tell me you have an official source that says 33% of all games have this happen, because I'm pretty damn sure that it does not exist. you personall may see that, but that is just random luck.
"New players will quickly that they have to struggle or they will die, which is good enough. BHVR recently added visual changes to the self-unhooking process to highlight the fact that it is a very risky idea and not something that should be done lightly."
I am laughing, you are telling new players GET GUD fast or your will get temp bans without a worry because we don't want you to TRY to get off the hook because the option is there. YES they changed it, but it was not because people were doing it to die on first hook but to make it obvious what you are doing sure, but not to tell people DONT DO IT! more like DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK! this does not mean it is intended to do anything more than tell the player something bad can happen.
you may be unconvinced they would do it frequently enough. I'm not convinced this is such the big issue you think it is. get off your high horse and play the game hook deaths or no! you are inconsequential but I love being able to shut your arguments down so others can see how minor and petty they are.
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people are going to find a way to DC any way that they can. So seriously, quit complaining about it. To be honest the struggle phase needs to be adjusted to Skill Checks anyways. Because it’s not always the survivors fault.
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Can’t suicide? I’ll Afk and tab out till I’m dead
Problem solved thanks man
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Yeah, I have taken care of children. It's not relevant, but I have. That satisfy your question?
I didn't say that 33% of all games have this happen. You asked me what is too often, and I said that deliberately one-hooking yourself in ~33% of your games is doing it too often.
New players ain't gonna one-hook themselves one in every three games (to use the previous number I gave as an example). I'm not worried that new players would do that so often that I'd think they should be punished.
I will continue playing the game, and I will continue to report people who I believe purposefully lose the game.
If you punish people for DCing, and you punish people for deliberately letting themselves die on first-hook early into the game, what other options do they have? Pretending to play badly so the Killer can catch them easy so you can't accuse them of losing on purpose? At that point, I'd say mission accomplished.
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@TAG New players ain't gonna one-hook themselves one in every three games (to use the previous number I gave as an example). I'm not worried that new players would do that so often that I'd think they should be punished.
THAT is sooo funny... when i've seen it happen 5 games in a row! that ended up being 5 our of 7 games before they called it quits... that's more than your 33%. still if you throw out a high number and the actual number is much less than than, won't that be the same problem as the old disconnect system of we'll notice it and people said the threshhold was set too high? great idea.. leave the game development to the professionals.
@TAG you want to punish people and force them to play a game they don't want so they'll just dc, it's quicker and easier and end up moving on to a new game... yea great way to kill the player base and kill the game.
I am done with you, I wish I could ignore you but I don't have that luxury, you have no idea about what you talk about and you throw out numbers that make no sense!
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Sounds like the person who did it 5 games in a row should be penalized to me.
Hey, Killers can't leave a game without DCing, so there's already precedent in the game. May as well extend that to Survivors for consistency.
You're giving me scenarios that make no sense, so y'know, pot calling kettle black and all.
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It's an extremely simple way to circumvent the DC penalty and it renders dcing useless, thus trivializing the entire point of the DC system - so it's logical why the OP would be against it, it's inconsistent.
I think the problem is that the solution is not simple to implement. You can either alter it to make it try to detect an intentional suicide which could either give a) false positives or b) still get abused once people figure out how to trick it - OR - change the entire system so suicides on hook are no longer possible at all.
While I don't think option B is as bad as it first sounds, it's a really big change and I don't think it's one the developers are keen on making without putting some serious time and effort into it. Because of this, it could be awhile before we see any changes.
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I mean, the most recent survey suggested the idea of changing the current struggle mechanic to that of Pyramid Head's cages, which is something.
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Cool didn't know that. That's something at least? In the end you can't force someone to play, but that's what DC penalties are there for. It's somehing you are free to do but you will pay a small price.
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I'm in agreeance with this quote above ^^^
You cannot force people to play a game they don't want to. You don't want hook suicides? Punish tunnelling and camping more first.
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Who says that that's the reason why players wanna leave the match?
It's not always the killer, the map. Sometimes you chase the killer for over a minute and nothing happens. Then the killer is a good Oni and the team just potatoes you don't feel like wasting your lifetime playing with bad teammates.
And there are so many more reasons, not just being entilted. And I swear if the developers ruin the option to leave a match by suiciding Im quitting. Forcing players to stay in a game no matter what isn't a viable option just because people think they can force other humans or players to do whatever is in their favor. Sorry if you don't like my decision. Accept it and carry on.
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It's super frustrating. I can't count the number of times that I've gone in for a save on a teammate, only for them to purposefully kill themselves just as I get there. I always give them a thumbs down negative review afterwards through the in-game system, but I'm assuming that the devs don't look over those negative reviews for possible rule infractions so that those players can actually be punished for trolling teammates.
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How do you know if they did that in purpose? Sometimes my teammates leave me on hook until the second stage and then proceed to press a, but I have some problems in my brain that makes me feel tired really quickly (yes, even for an action such as tapping) and sometimes it just "disables" my thumb for a short moment but long enough for the game to kill me. And sometimes they come in the second stage and sometimes they're closer and I am like "Why?"
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Killers are forced to endure sweat teams, as the DC penalty is back. Survivors don't deserve special treatment.
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Forcing players to stay in a game no matter what isn't a viable option just because people think they can force other humans or players to do whatever is in their favor.
Meanwhile, Killers have no way to leave the trial early currently.
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so in his first 7 games he has to be an EXPERT? get out of here. you took longer than that I'd wager. you just invalidated your points and your credibility. Honestly expecting a new player to know as much as you and be making the right decisions AS YOU SEE THEM? you know what, from now on, I am giving survivors that I am with, when not in SWF (I know they will come for me), till i get done with my third struggle, if they haven't gotten off their gens and started towards me i'm out bye bye! and this is because you think it's cute to say new players should know what seasoned players do within their first 7 matches.
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so in his first 7 games he has to be an EXPERT?
No. Since when is "mash a button" considered being an expert?
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ok, i think you made a mistake by making this thread, by reading the title, i coul already tell that 75% of this was going to be pure salt, but i think it's better to redirect the question on how to prevent the remaining players from being punished for a quiter
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That guy's a known troll
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But literally no one cares about that. I have played a lot of matches I didn't want to play. I think it's sad we're even having this conversation in the first place.
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knowing that it happens, knowing when it will need to be done, how fast or slow to do it, and what is going on so that you don't get surprised in the game. it takes TIME to get accustomed to the game. you are a fanatic, it will never happen since if you penalize people from doing things the GAME tells you that you can do or decide not to do it. No feature of the game even tells you that the leave match is even there. the tutorial doesn't, the game doesn't, the game manual as far as i know doesn't. it is in the rules that leaving the match in any way other than the exit gates/hatch/sacrifice/killed is not allowed. Your rules are laughable, you are laughable and you do not understand that following the prompts and not succeeding at the prompts is not punishable by penalties! ONLY one game punishes you for KNOWNG the rules and that is paranoia. well your paranoid mind in thinking that everyone is out to make your games the worst around. now I can tell others how idiotic your ideas are.
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No. No it does not take time to be accustomed to both not trying to self-unhook recklessly and pushing the same one button until someone takes you off a hook. You are exaggerating hardcore.
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just stop trying to be arrogant about things, i doubt highly you are remembering truthfully but remembering what you want/need to support your argument, nothing can be done to change my view of this don't even try. As much as it's been a great laugh your attempt to be the best at this game is over the top. i'm done with you. go and see the sky, breathe fresh air, stop playing and you will be better off. I'm out you have made it unfun, so can we ban someone here that has made it unfun to chat in the boards? lol
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I don't think it's arrogant to suggest that it's easy to learn how not to accidentally let yourself die on the hook.
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right why should survivor have an easy way out.
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Well actually, if you say the punishment for those who kill themselves on their first hook is merely a depip, why don't you just join them and go for the next match instead of complaining.
If you think that rank matters, then I can see why you're frustrated, but you said it yourself "ranking doesn't matter" so yeah, why are you frustrated then?
Or if you really cannot trust your fellow survivors you can always hide and sneak somewhere watching them get killed and escape by the hatch all by yourself. That suits you best anyway.
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I am personally frustrated because:
- I will waste an item I picked in the start of the game (god forbid it's a rare one as well)
- I have wasted my time waiting in the lobby, waiting for the game to load, 2-3 minutes of gameplay which is basically concluded the moment the survivor fail-unhooks himself
- I will have no fun playing an unfair game of 3v1 which originally designed as 4v1
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I disagree you join the game knowing this is a possibility. You commit to the game you should stick it out. Now if you boycot until its gone thats cool but committing and then suicide thats bad form
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This just sounds like it makes the game more unenjoyable to play, it's a no from me, hook death is fine.
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I think hooks suicide is all good, but of course irritating. But the killer gets his BPs and all that so it's not at all the same as people DC. The DC penalty should be even harder than now but hook suicuide we can't punish people for it. Let it be there will always be losers in games that we can't change.
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So I need to stay in the game because I got caught first and Bubba is insidious camping me in the basement. I think hanging on the hook is killing my team more than letting go of struggle tbh.
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This kind of attitude will kill the game in the future. Don't care about the killer side of things? What they hate to deal with? Then they won't care about what you find toxic/hate to deal with. One rule for thee but not for me is an unhealthy mindset and will ruin your games.
If killers had a way to cut their losses without giving survivors more points, then suiciding on hook would be fine, as that is what they do for killers regardless.
Either they need to balance their games, or give killers an out.
And you wrote to me, not the other way around. If you feel you wasted your time, that is on you.
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A perfect example of a "ME ME ME" mentality.
Yes it's just a game, if you do not feel like playing today, then don't ruin the experience for other 4 people by fail-unhooking yourself once a killer made a mindgame against you in early game.
If a similar system was implemented to Dota2 where toxic players are matched with other toxic players without them knowing, you would be BEGGING to be transferred back in a matter of hours as every single first slug would result in a suicide on hook, I can absolutely guarantee you that.
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Well, now you know how Killers feel, who have no way of leaving the game early except via disconnecting. :P
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Uhhhh you misunderstand me there, chief. I was agreeing with you. I was saying no one cared about killers having fun and that we have to play matches we don't want to all the time. And that I find it depressing people are still debating about DCing and punishment. Perhaps that was unclear in my post.
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I agree with a number of people here. Asking for punishments is not going to work out as long as the issues causing the desires to just not be playing anymore still exist. It's like how a significant amount of medicine serves only to alleviate symptoms without addressing root causes.
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Maybe I did.
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The strongest punishment you can give a player who lets themselves die on a hook is to grant the killer a large bonus in bloodpoints.
The biggest driver in this kind of behavior is to prevent the rest of the players from enjoying the rest of the match or to directly impact the killer's BP gain.
The idea of giving the killer such a bonus will actively prevent many players from quitting to prevent them from gaining that bonus.
Reverse psychology so to speak.
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Not really, the only way to do that is to either absolutely outclass the killer, or just have the killer run the biggest anti-perks for his killer.
Besides, the killers do not suffer from teammates, nor do they suffer from extremely boring games. A sweaty 4 man optimal swf with OoO game is at least 50x more enjoyable than being slugged for 4 minutes. If I notice the killer has iri hatchets and ebony mori, im gonna suicide because thats more enjoyable than whats coming.
Let alone that OoO isnt even a commonly used perks, I've gone literal weeks without encountering one(not counting Lauries who have no other perks), the second most annoying thing, keys, arent really usable for 95% of the game, by the time it does affect the game, you should already be on 1k anyway. There isnt too much reasons for killers to want to leave the match in the first place. Which is why killer dc's in general are much lower than survivor dc's. This isnt including the people who DC as soon as they see something they dont like, its people who think the DC punishment is less punishing than staying in the match.
So yeah, technically, if you try your absolute hardest, you could force a killer to endure a match he wouldnt want to. But lets even look at those ones:
- gens done in 3 minutes, which is worth just standing afk till its over and opening the gates early on, no punishment on killer for doing that.
- survivors hidden through the map with perks that counter being spotted easily, which technically, can be bannable for survivors because they keep a killer hostage, even if they just want to play hide and seek.
That's it, thats pretty much all I can think off that could be forcing a killer to play a match he doesnt want to. The rest is easily endurable. The survivor side of that coin tho, is much, much worse. Ebony can ######### you over instantly. Instadown addons/killers can ######### you over extremely hard by constantly slugging and waiting for the absolute last second to mori you. "BuT iTs OnLy 4 mInUtEs" isnt an excuse if it happens at least once a week to the average player.
So yeah, you technically can force killers. But thats like saying "you can attack America" when a small middle eastern country gets innocently attacked and invaded by American forces and has no militia to attack them back. Just like saying "keys are bad too" when ebony mori is 5 times worse as to avoid ebony mori being reworked. Or like saying "DS needs balancing" when Pop is unreasonably much stronger than DS is. Or like saying "gen kicking exists" when gen regression is 5 times slower than repairs and you need to spend 2 full seconds kicking it, while survivors can instantly tap the gen while running past and stop it from regression.
You are part of the problem of this community by shifting a problem. Survivors suicide because some killer things are simply uncounterable if the killer has even the tiniest of brains. Survivors dont even come close to how unenjoyable some things in the game are. Spirit is another example, I consider her overpowered for the current meta. I dont think she is fully uncounterable. I dont think she is truly overpowered. But in her current state, compared to the current meta, she is. No single perkless vanilla survivor team comes even close to being able to win against a spirit, excluding spirits who are awful killers in general.
There are problems in this game, on both sides. But lets address the worst ones first. Suiciding on hook isnt terrible. Its not a dc, its the vanilla way to pre-emptively leave the match for whatever reason. It's not exactly great, but they do get punished with a depip and practically 0 bloodpoints. They dont need a timer on top of that.
longer rant than I expected, I guess sorry for that, but its just people like you who are like "but killer can have X problem" even though survivor problem Y is 1000x more common and 10x worse, who are a problem to discussions like these. You add nothing to the discussion, you ignore the argument made and think you're better for it.
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didn't read everything but i said you can force killers to stay because normal people don't want to dc killer can't killer them self on hook to move on
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It's fine I should have articulate that a lot better, the fault was in me. But you're definitely right.
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What the hell did I just read?
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Players have the right to choose. They shouldn't be forced to stay in a match if they aren't having any fun, or enjoying the game. If the killer is playing scummy, and making the match miserable, they're going to DC, or kill themselves on first hook so they don't have to deal with it. Sure it screws the rest of the team, but that's something we have to deal with. Maybe in the future they'll be replaced with bots. DC penalty doesn't bother a lot of survivors. They'll go do other stuff while waiting. It'll be the same with a sacrifice penalty.
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"Free speech doesn't mean being able to express your opinions without fear of repercussions for it"
I place you in the same category with people that say that sort of thing. the authoritarian, self-serving, self-interested category. Free speech does mean that, btw, just in case you might agree with that sort of statement quoted up there as well.
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I really like this idea
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