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Why killer mains think they are underwelming
Lately, I have seen a lot of killers complain about the game being survivor favored, while in reality the escape&death ratio is around 50&50. Even so, killers tend to think the game favors survivors. Why is that? No, it is not because they have smaller brains, no it is not because they are dumb, no it is not because they are entitled: the reason is that they feel stressed when survivors make progress. This is going to assume that it will be an average match.
Let me explain: when you down someone, chances are, one or two gens are going to be done. This puts stress on the killer, because survivors have already done 1 out of 6 of their objective (if we count that escaping after the last gen is as hard as doing one generator). Meanwhile, the killer has only done 1 out of 12 of his objective due to having 1 out of the 12 hook stages required. Then, the game goes on and in the end, survivors will have done all generators. The killer most likely killed someone by then and can catch someone else to camp and kill. This will feel bad for the killer, because they feel like they failed due to all generators being done, while in reality they have done ok by getting 2 kills. For survivor, on the other end, can still feel good even if you lose: you will still have been chased, done gens and unhooks, etc. You will still feel that you have done something and the dread feeling of defeat will not be here.
So, here is the solution: do not panic when generators get done. You can still get kills, in fact, survivors are supposed to be unstoppable for generators (if both sides have equal skill), otherwise the 2 kills 2 escapes ratio (which is what the game should be balanced around) will not be applied.
Comments
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The above is bs, imo.
Even insulting - depending on how one likes to see it.
But, to come to your question:
Can't answer for everyone, but it is hard to forget if something you loved on the game got nerfed because of survivor complainments.
Well... If I am honest... I will never.
Edit: And that can give people such a impression. Shouldn't be a surprise.
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@Talmeer WHERE is the insult? Well maybe I should have said that entitled survivors that want the game to favor them exist, but thats it. Survivor complaints are sometimes valid, sometimes not, but this post was answering to killers thinking dbd is to favored towards survivors.
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Speaking as a killer main (probably about 75/25 at this point; I think I've embraced that I'm a Killer Main now, though I do not play it exclusively), the game can get incredibly frustrating at the higher levels. I've always been of the mind that if you somehow got four survivors and one killer all of completely even and equal skill, survivors would come out on top way more often.
There's just not a lot of wiggle room for high ranking mistakes in the game and survivors who know what they're doing can be INSANELY efficient. All you can do as a killer is realize this and just try to relax. I know that's harder than it sounds (especially if you get the group of ######### survivors doing every trick to make the game damn miserable) but that's the life we chose when we picked up The Blade...
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Well... Let it me say on this way:
In real life, not everyone is happy if you suggest that someone has a smaller brain, or is dumb :). I bet you haven't mean it on this way, but this is the dbd community... How long do you think someone needs to get those words in the wrong throat?
Edit: What the complainments matters: So yes you are right, but imo they are often exaggerated and posted with the wrong intensions (like that someone, somethings dislikes - but your likes or dislikes should have nothing to do with balance).
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There are you right. I was just afraid that we would stay by now already knee deep in insults from one side to another :).
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@tippy2k2 I understand that 3-4 man swf can be hellish and unbalanced, but the opposite exists: if you are a solo queue survivor and the game is balanced around top players, you will be matched with noobs and so, you will lose. Solo queue is filled with crap teammates, which gives a chance to the killer. Even if you are a 2 man swf, you still have 2 random teammates that can suck.
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I am aware of that (my 25% is strictly solo as I don't know anyone who plays this game besides myself).
But this is a thread about Killers, not Survivors so I didn't really post about how bad being a survivor can be at times...
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speaking as a killer main:
It's more that a lot of survivors don't 'let us play' so to speak.
from a certain point on many will run the exact same perks and tactics, rendering a lot of killer abilities obsolete as it calls either for running the exact same perks on every killer AND playing exactly the same, or... well, there's not much of an or aside from purposefully deranking to get better survivors.
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1 down equals 1-2 generators.
So 5 gens equals ~3 downs?
It's survivor sided on the highest level of play, because the math favors survivors. Every time i play trapper i have the fear to run into a bully SWF and stand no chance.
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i dont know why killer mains get so upset over this as the game is a survival/horror game, so the main objective is to survive. you will never please everyone either side just complains how the other side is so (BOO HOO) unfair
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@NursesBootie no because its for the first down: after that the game slows down a lot due to the pressure from the hook. 1 rescuer, 1 guy gets chased and 1 guy on a hook. Only 1 out of the 3 survivors that were originally working on a gen are doing gens now. Not to mention that solo queue gets you teammates that do not do gens
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@MeltingPenguins I agree, but the same thing applies to killers: they can facecamp, run the same build over and over gagain ,etc
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- Get a group of friends
- spread out evenly around the map
- hold m1
- walk out the door
- walking killers can't deal with this.
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I’ve always had a gripe with the whole balancing around 50/50, because the balancing team seems to blame the killer power most of the time rather than the many options survivors have to counter it when the 50/50 quota isn’t being met (I.E Base HillBilly in the PTB). The fact is, survivors in the highest level of play, which is something veteran killers are now going to play against almost all the time if MMR works as intended, have infinitely more options to work around the killer while the killer HAS to use specific perks/killers to actually play the game for more than 5 minutes.
There’s no room for fun meme builds and no room to play a fun, but weak, killer because you don’t have any breathing room to have said fun, especially when you’re facing a pre-made SWAT team almost every game due to the developers being negligent when it comes to high-level MMR (versus playing against a high-level legacy killer like Nurse, which means hardly anything to good survivor teams).
You’re right in saying that killer is infinitely more stressful as the match progresses, but it’s the developer’s actions that has pushed higher level of play towards a strict meta that has lots of room for change on one side of the spectrum and no room at all on the other.
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yeah, and that's sad. like, if someone plays like that, why even have different killers and survivors at all?
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1) A lot of killers are strong enough to deal with it.
2) Not everyone wants to play in a 3-4 man swf. Balancing around that would make solos and 2 man swf rage quit the game. In fact, solo players are underwelming and the same thing applies to killers.
1) Get good at a strong killer.
2) Get it level up and get broke nadd ons and moris.
3) Solo and 2 man swf survivors cannot deal with this.
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@RockoRango do you play against tryhard killers sometimes. Survivors are not the only ones to get free wins. You seem to forget that things like ebony mori exist.
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The thing is that survivors always say that tunneling and camping is scummy. If you do this you are going to ruin their games. BUT if the killer wants a chance to win against decent survivors they have to tunnel sometimes in the match because 12 hooks is a lot when games doesn't last long on average.
In short: Playing killer isnt underwelming, but playing 100% fair is underwelming when you play killer.
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?
I wasn't talking about that AT ALL. Ebony moris and keys are something everyone can agree on needing changes, but blaming killer's powers instead of the real issues is what has caused killers to be more stressful than they need to be in the first place.
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I don't really have an opinion on whether the game favors one side or the other, as I don't think I'm experienced enough with both sides, but Killer is always a thousand times more stressful. You have to be there for the entirety of the game every single match. If you get killed as a survivor halfway through a bad match, you just queue up again, no big deal. You can't die as the Killer. If the match sucks, you have to see it through. Thankfully on either side, bad matches tend to end quickly, but because survivor progress feels inevitable as the killer, the stress of each generator going off is much greater. It's a lot more loosey-goosey as a survivor. Yeah, the killer might've gotten a lot of hooks already, but I'm pretty confident I can loop long enough to buy another gen, maybe 2 if I'm doing really well and my team is actually awake.
And if I die, again, that's it, I'm out, next match. If I don't die, I can look forward to the hatch or the generators being auto-completed when the hatch is closed. Second chances for me as a survivor as built into the game, which is probably the right way to go about it, but you don't feel that same sort of chill "it's alright, I'll just do this" as games near their climaxes as a killer. It just gets more and more stressful.
Unless the survivors are potatoes, in which case you don't want to play too well because you want everyone to get more points and have a better experience than just getting annihilated by the sweatiest man alive. It's really hard to find that same sort of chill satisfaction on killer as you get as a survivor.
Of course, whenever I play survivor half the team is cleansing dull totems and searching for treasure in the basement and crouching directly in front of the killer, hoping he doesn't see them, but again, it's not terribly stressful as much as it gives me something fun to complain to myself about. "Oh there goes Meg again, Megging it up." On a killer, it's 100% on me. I miss a swing and I've got no one to blame but myself. I misjudge the distance to a hook and let someone wiggle free, I feel like a complete idiot. It goes on and on like that. But in the end, I still have a lot of fun as killer despite the added stress and the ironic occasional feeling of helplessness.
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Im killer main and I will explain you why?
- SWF on game that was not made for comms plus no balance of that issue and ignored for years.
- Controversial perks: OoO that its basically high reward for team low risk for surv,DS being extremely long and antimomentum perk plus allowing to be 60 secs without being hooked.
- Keys being easy escape for two people.
- Those "techs" like Dc tech for hatch.
- Hatch being RNG based not skill based.
- Toxic behaviour consequence of Second chance perks (Like repairing a gen on the killer face).
- instant change items while killers get locked.
Survivor complains are:
Moris
Freddy and spirit cant braindead looping I wanna cry.
Solo queque and play is hell on a multiplayer game.Wonder why...
I wonder why devs keep nerfing survs.I propose gives moris per keys deal? so u only can cry oly two things
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@Primalux135 I will explain you why:
-Swf have the other way around of playing solo with noobs, which sucks.
-Instant changes suck? Oh, poor baby killer that cannot use his boring Franklin! I am gonna cry for you.
-Hatch RNG based? And so, that can affect negatively survivor, tho. That alone shows you do not think about the other side at all (or very little).
-"Crutch perks": killers do not have boring perks, right? Franklin, NOED, this is all fine... Yea in your head because your a killer main that can only see the side that favors him, so yea they are fine in your eyes. And decisive&borrowed might be run because of tunnelers and not to be toxic.
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It's not that. Most are weak compared to 4 good survivors. It's just that most survivors aren't that good and make really poor decisions. I mean, a lot of survivors somehow go down at killer shack. Four optimal survivors with meta builds will almost always beat an optimal killer.
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1) Yeah overaltruistric protected by BT bodyblocking and DS save on ur face or repairing even sacrificing a hook for a gen repair thats the most shocking part.Repair in ur face!
2) Instant changes? Can u clarify it to me? (BTW i barely use Franklin,nor Moris)
3) Yeah RNG based but surely ur team can tell you where it is,so its luck for the killer and you just have to go straight to it.
4)Franklin demise is a crutch????? NOED have counter do bones but DS+unbreakable doesnt,give me a counter to adrelanine? Ohhh so BT bodyblocking when I try to catch the unhooker its tunneling Whoau now I know thanks.
Remove keys and mori and put corrupt intervention as basekit to compensate SWF i give u noed per adrelanine and everyone happy right? Hell I will gift you Franklin demise perk too and more over put endurance basekit after unhook and remake BT but you cant bodyblock me or It let me mori you :)
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1) For BT, saving in your face (instant unhook) makes it s othat you enter the next chase instantly instead of needing to find another survivor, I do not get what is the deal. Decisive can be dumb, but a lot of the time it is just about tunneling.
2) Instant changes are when someone switches to the last second.
3) Your team can tell you if you are in a SWF, which you seem to want the game to be balanced around (to screw every solo survivor) and it requires the hatch to have been found, to have spawned and that you, the killer, and you can find it before it opens if it spawned.
4) I said franklin is boring (for keys it is fine but for the rest it sucks), not op or a crutch. Doing bones? This is hard in a solo team and if one of the bones is well hidden, it becomes VERY, VERY time consuming.
The deal at the end is quite nice: corrupt should only be base kit against 3-4 man SWF tho.
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In my opinion, on most maps, if you take 4 Survivors and 1 Killer of equal skill, the Survivors will usually come out on top.
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Also it's very much to do with how the brain is more likely to remember bad memories than good ones, because the emotions involved feel stronger, probably to aid as a warning not to mess up again.
In terms of the game a Killer is reliant only on themselves. The stress is certainly stronger. With Survivors, there are 4 of them, and thus more ways to "share" the feeling, or at least blame someone else. I'm sure there are both Killers and Survivors out there who take onboard and own their errors and use them to get better. However, this won't change the fact that a Killer has nobody else to turn to.
So many factors, but taking this into account certainly helps with the explanation.
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@Pulsar it depends if it is a bunch of solo&2 man swf or 3 man swf&4 man swf. It also depends on the perks used and the map.
@Vox_Nocturne this is true!
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I was actually about to reply something similar. The game has too many competitive chunks while being in no way competitive(due to ranking/mmr being a landfill on top of player skills/intentions/mood). Then, like @slunder stated, SWF/Solos vs Killers actually matters a lot. But I honestly thought it was common knowledge that playing killer will always be more stressful, which is why point cap potential is so high for them.
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I agree, and I think it is common knowledge. What isn't common knowledge is the sheer amount of reasons as to why, and that it's not just down to certain game events, moreover many internal and external causes.
All the more reason for people to just be a little more humble in victory or defeat: Inspite of how the round went, the opponent may be having a far worse day, and not for the reasons solely related to the game.
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The one thing is definitely accurate ... Killers complain about almost every little thing survivor has/does ... And yet, they also fail to admit that they also have certain crutches and unfair/bullsh*t perks and addons too.
Goes to show most don't even bother to play the other side /shrug
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That's my exact notion going into a game... but we are asking the community to equip Empathy, which is a tall order to fill lmao
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It's Claudette's first perk, easy! :D.
It's true there are those in the fog who have succumbed to those negative behaviours or thoughts. Yet maybe they've learned those behaviours from others. To add, if it's possible to learn from negative actions, they can still learn positive attributes and revert back.
It's not so much that people can cure it - one bad day, and someone will bring forth vitriol as a result. They do have the ability to change how they are in game, and if more do then more will follow.
An impossible task, perhaps. But a task worth taking anyhow. :)
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You don't have to break all bones, just remember where they are so in case of noed you can cleanse them, this is not an easy thing for a solo player though.
Have you wondered why so many killers use corrupt and pop at the same time? Because in some maps it is needed unless you have high mobility killers so you don't get rushed and no I'm not complaining about gen rushing.
Most killers use almost the same perks because the game ends too fast if it's a good swf team, not all killers have the same skill as great killers not all killers play the same.
It all really depends, just like someone above said as well, imagine having a killer then gets nerfed because of constant complains, 1v4 is harder than a 4v1, killers have to rely just on themselves and survivors don't, a single mistake can mean the end of the game that is for both sides but it feels worse when it's a simple mistake or auto aim that makes you lose it.
Also an instant save with BT is what some killers hate the most since most of the time, the recently unhooked survivor will body block with BT even when you are not going for them, then if the killer downs them after the 15 seconds, the killer will get ######### talked because it is "tunneling" even when the survivor knew it wasn't.
Don't look at the game from one side, see from yourself both sides, I'm a killer main but I play survivor, I understand the killer side and why they have to play the way they do, I play survivor and refuse to use broken perk combos like DS+unbreakable, or OoO with both of those or OoO with off the record, because it is unfair.
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He didn't say anyone had a smaller brain, he was negating the argument outright. "It is NOT because they XYZ." Means that anyone about to throw that on the table should just stop, because we're establishing what something isn't, rather than let anyone come up and say what something is.
The stress is real on Killers, but the snowball is also just as real. Once a Killer has hooked someone, the snowball can begin. One person comes in for the save, that's now two people off generator repairs. If that person starts to get chased, they've wasted time not repairing, and someone else has to come to the rescue. That's now three people off generator repairs and one possibly repairing.
Once you start getting that cycle going, you can't let up. Killers have but one objective, there are no side objectives to do unlike with Survivors. If you keep up the pressure then you can start to really slow the game down. But if you just decide to take it easy, then the one or two generators that popped earlier will quickly turn to three or four. The point is to get that hook and start patrolling the other generators. If the game was designed so that every generator was equivalent to two hooks, survivors would never escape.
The game is designed so that the early game gives survivors a little bit of a headstart, but will slow down once the killer has started hooking people.
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They are underwhelming. The problem with this game is that it has scores of terrible survivors that drag the average survival rate down, but the top 25% of survivors are unstoppable. This new mmr is going to show how broken this game really is, and the dev's are either going to lose their streamer/killer base, or they will FINALLY pull their heads out and fix this crap.
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@Dwinchester oh but we can also say the same for killers. They are a lot of bad killers that draw the score down.
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At low skill game is killer side. At high skill, no matter u do or perfect u play probably u lose because survivors are very effective and efficiently making objectives, u can do 4/5 hooks but at this time al gen done. U only hope is a survivors mistake or camping and tunnel. Win is some time luck with killers and u think u can control the game and this is frustrating. I play 90% play survivor so dont come to tell me i killer side. SWF only help some survivors to be more effective doing objectives but 4 solo Q high skill can be effective and efficiently like 4 Swf
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If you believe a 2k is balanced then that means you believe that every game should end with all generators completed. Imagine being a killer knowing that in every 'ideal' game you will lose every gen and will have to claw for a 2k at end game collapse. Why wouldn't you consider that underwhelming?
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I Ain't read it but I'll tell you I love playing killer in this game. This game is very much killer sided. Every update has literally been a killer buff. I dropped survivor to start playing killer and I'm personally having a better time
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2k is what the devs consider to be balanced...
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The main problem that the 50/50 rule does not take into account is... was... rank disparity (I guess it is MMR disparity now). A new killer will get no kills, but a master nurse will get 4ks most of the time... and SWF skews the data even more. The total average being... 50/50. Or roughly that amount. Due to this (and the huge amount of RNG in this game), the statistics aren't really reliable, and cannot be used as a gauge of balance. And due to this skewed data, the devs make a lot of... questionable balance choices. Ones that hurt the problem more than help it, and on the cycle continues.
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"A lot of killers" are not strong enough to deal with it. There's like 5. Spirit and Nurse, and to a lesser extent, Oni, Hag, and Freddy. That isn't a lot imo
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I tend to play both sides and I understand what killers usually tend to mean when they're making these complaints.
Here's the thing:
They're the killer, they're supposed to be the biggest obstacle for Survivors which when Survivors work together this is an obstacle they can overcome eventually. Hence the main objective of Generators
As a killer you want to feel like the boss, the threat, something that Survivors have to reluctantly deal with, but at the same time determined to beat you to achieve their goal of escaping and living another day. But they just want to be more than a body guard for generators and they want to feel like survivors at times. The sense of, "well that was a decent match time to queue up another." whether they win or lose.
Either way it could be on them for not patrolling gens well or some other reason, but at the same time they want to be that obstacle that will impede Survivors as a whole. You have a blinking nurse, map manipulation Executioner, gunslinger, madness inducing doctor, and a cloaking killer.
The powers help a heck of lot when you know what you're doing, but at the same time you start to chase a Survivor, but you can't go without worrying about a gen getting done during the chase and you want to get the chase over with.
Like you said killers have crutch perks too like NOED, and add-ons like infinite tier 3 Myers, but it all depends on your team and like Survivor crutch perks they have their weakness just... A little more nerve-wracking and stressful.
NOED could be cleansed as soon as it lights up
Stealthy players can hide from Myers and it can take forever to get to tier 3
(We don't talk about Iri Head Huntress because 1: Not much killers use it, because they KNOW it's broken as hell and when they do it's probably a tome challenge or they just feel bored and 2: It's a add-on we have, but we tend to ignore it at times)
So, while you do bring up the subject that yes, it's true killers have crutch perks of their own just like Survivor's crutch perks it's always the sense/mindset of:
"Will I be able to put this to use?"
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Excellent explanation. Everyone just needs to chill out and not take this game seriously. As a survivor main, I can appreciate when a killer is able to apply pressure on all four survivors ( sweaty build or not ) and complete their objective ( SACRIFICING the survivors ). After having time to successfully loop, unhook and maybe get 1 or 2 gens done I don't mind not escaping. Getting tunneled, face camped or "killed" is unfortunate ( especially after only distracting for a minute and no gens are done) , but sometimes it's cool to see Meyers finally drive his knife into Strode after successfully stalking and saving her for last. On the other hand, it's satisfying to see Strode teabagging Meyers at the exit after taking a few slashes throughout the match and executing DS like the badass she is. It all depends on your perspective and whether or not you enjoy the "thrill" and using the killer/survivor perks as they were intended. Either way, the match ends and you move on to the next. It's fun when you don't set expectations even if you are set on grinding for points or ranking up. Complaints on both sides are annoying and misguided. The developers need to spend more time on the mechanics and asthetic of the game itself instead of pasting licensed killers with half-ass maps. This way the animations can be appreciated. 4 sacrifices in 5 minutes does NOT warrant a skilled killer, and not every survivor that escapes is a hot shot. Scummy players are scummy players and everyone should stop seeking validation / measuring skill based on escaping OR killing by any means necessary. It's all about the premise of the game : )
On a side note, my yellow and green rank allies have gotten me killed more often than the merit of the killer with this new MMS. The game itself is slowly turning into poo and anyone who played it casually will eventually stop playing anyway.
Post edited by munchieballs_ on0 -
My problem with 2 kill 2 escapes for killer is that the emblem system doesn't reward 2k at all. If 2 survivors escape it means that at least Gatekeeper and Devout emblems will be silver at best and on higher ranks it's a black pip or even a depip.
I know that ranks don't really matter with the new MMR but considering that it's entirely hidden and doesn't show in any way how well or poorly you did in a match then rank and pips kinda remain the only measure of success. And by this measure 2k is not a very good result.
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It's true that 2 kills 2 escape was the golden standard, but it's very flawed statistic. I've played since 2016 and as long i can remember most killers had already 2 kills back then when survivors very extremely broken; super fast vaults, killer vaulting time was 3 SECONDS at the beginning+ pallet breaking speed 3 seconds.. even common jungle gyms were near infinites for semi decent survivor.
If we strictly looked at the stats of the killers, survivors should never have been nerfed. But we all knew how broken time it was. The only reason i got any kills back then wasn't because of my skills, but survivors played very cocky, taunting and eventually they made too many mistakes.
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@Callmehandsome right now tho, the game is balanced.
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With each Generator completed, the Survivors potential repair speed for the remaining generators increases, that's why Killers get stressed out.
Each *BLING* is an indicator that you're running out of time.
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