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If SWF aren't an issue, why not allow people to know they are going against it?

Title.

If SWF aren't an issue, it wouldn't hurt to let killers and other solo players know they are playing with premade.

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Comments

  • 28_stabs
    28_stabs Member Posts: 1,470

    ez dodge

  • Slashstreetboy
    Slashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    Exactly. Since so many people play in a swf (which I´m in no way against, I mean, come on let friends play a coop game) yet in the case of DBD it causes massive balance issues. They haven´t been adressed for YEARS and I doubt they ever will.

    So yeah, just like survivor players having to deal with 3k hours ebony mori Spirits and Forever Freddys, killers have to deal with swf ( not the best comparison but I feel it´s about equally as frustrating).

    BHVR is hesitant to touch on the matter since they hold some sort of customer power through sheer numbers.

    On a side note I think it´s hard to balance it without making it less fun for survivors, so there´s that. It puts the devs in a tough spot.

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,219

    They should just seperate swf from solo queue and balance both queues acordingly. If both modes were balanced, there would be no need to dodging them. And in case of 3man-swf, they can buff the random solo survivor via kindred/bound/whatever and still make it haveway balanced.

    Also, they can give incentives to killers and solo survivors to join the swf-queue (which again, would be as balanced as solo) in form of additional bp, xp, or whatever.

    This would also keep the solo experience intact which resolves about a lack of information, and thats the way some of us prefer the game.

  • Zaitsev
    Zaitsev Member Posts: 1,285

    I think a 3 man or higher should notify you. Two man SWF is not going to be a sweat squad

  • MonsterInMyMind
    MonsterInMyMind Member Posts: 2,744
    edited August 2020

    As others have stated people would dodge also in no way are the developers ever going to find a sweet spots for SWF's its not possible you can't balance around comms they will always have some sort of advantage with that being said people give swf's to much praise not all of them are even that good sure there's like a 1% team that is insanely good but ive only faced one since the mmr came out and i still killed two. People just find something to blame a loss on instead of paying attention to what they likely did wrong its seriously over hyped a lot.

  • burt0r
    burt0r Member Posts: 4,163

    The thing is while group 2 will be impossible to beat by and bully even top tier killer players, group 1 is a wide field of skill and intentions.

    Ranging from 4 potatoes playing together over 4 people just trying to just play for fun (maybe even with just meme builds instead of meta) to 4 men groups trying to reach those 15% in terms of skill and more often in terms of toxicity.

    And the advantage of comms that come with swf will be used by good percentage of those 85%. More or less effective but I can show you a YouTuber that played with friends like the last potatoes but still managed to win just by communicating.

    To the average killer even the half of those 85% that just can play good enough to beat them hard and unintentional use some toxic stuff (many survs tbag for really just for fun/to indicate something to others) will FEEL like the mentioned 15%. This is making a good amount more than 15% feel unfair.

    This would still lead to most killers dodging 3-4 man's which would hurt the game overall.

    The best and often mentioned solution is buffing solos with information via making some perks baseline and then giving killers more power in correspondence.

  • OBX
    OBX Member Posts: 854

    It’s like being an ostrich.... if one keeps their head in the sand, everything that is going on isn’t actually happening because the ostrich can’t see it. This is behaviors philosophy regarding swf. Killers will dodge it all the time.

  • ShadowRain
    ShadowRain Member Posts: 607

    Because it serves no purpose knowing if you are going against a swf or not..

  • Carpemortum
    Carpemortum Member Posts: 4,506

    Neither is 4 man just because of the group size.

    It's like saying killers/survivors are toxic. It's the players, not the role. You can have god solos and potato 4 man squads.

  • Moundshroud
    Moundshroud Member Posts: 4,458

    I've said this BEFORE and I'll say it again. SWF is a HUGE problem because it causes ripples throughout the game. It is EASILY addressed. There should be the following types of matches:


    1. Solo where you don't come in with a group and you can't see the real ID info of the other Survivors until the end of the match. Thus, no communication OUTSIDE the game itself. There are Perks for that (like Kindred), and gesture animations.
    2. Custom games where you CAN go in and play with your friends and a willing Killer. Everyone is on the same page and understands it is SWF.
    3. SWF League Play, where groups can go earn blood points together as a REGISTERED TEAM, and the Killers know what they are facing and the DEV can do appropriate Buffs or situation alterations to balance the extreme advantage SWF provides.

    That's it. It solves the problem. Two out of three of these allow you to play with your friends. It prevents Solo players from being at a disadvantage for Rank as they aren't competing against Teams (they get their own grouping), and Killers don't have to face broken OUT OF GAME knowledge and coordination unless they want to do it and where it has been balanced for them. In addition, Leagues, i.e. teams would add a great new dimension to this game.

  • MadLordJack
    MadLordJack Member Posts: 8,814

    Please explain how they can address SWF whilst not losing a significant portion of their revenue and inkeepong with their "no knee-jerk" policy.

    Actually, it's mostly just that 1 policy that is... Not killing, but throttling the game. They like to make decisions and changes nice and slow because they are scared. Take the Ruin nerf: any moron could have said that something needed to be done about gen speeds AT THE SAME TIME. Nothing was done and the already quick killer ques became literally instant for a solid few months. They are dedicated to this policy. That, and the stats, seem to be their golden idols. So they are essentially forced to work within these parameters.

    Which means than any suggestion for balancing out SWF without potentially killing the game needs to be simple. Is it paradoxical? Yes. But those are the rules they follow, so keep that in mind.

  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,274

    Because (a) half the player base is SWF but (b) only a small percentage of that half are the SWAT SWF that people want to balance the game around.

    Based on the stats they shared in 2019 (which obviously could've changed and had other factors included) half of the survivor player base was SWF. About 30% was 2SWF, about 10% was 3SWF, and about 3-6% was 4SWF. The SWF SWAT teams only make up a percentage of the 3-6% player base, and if you want you can even include some from the 10% of 3SWF. That's such a small percentage of survivor player base to balance around. Nerfing would drive away the ones that are just playing with their friends and most nerfs people suggest will actually hurt the random solos more that are tossed in with the 2SWF and 3SWF.

  • Xzan
    Xzan Member Posts: 907

    Checking player profiles to see who is a group is already possible. So why not make this information easier accessible?

    I want to know if I have to use better addons or switch to another killer. lobbydodge because I don't want to play against a 4 man with my babywraith who has a daily.

    SWF gives enough advantages, so at least a notification shouldn't be that much of a problem.

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,259

    Your thoughts on this would kill the game, so I guess you would rather have no game at all than have a challenge? Swf is fine in fact id be willing to bet they die more often trying to help each other. If people want to play EZ games go play the bots on mobile, swf isn't going anywhere and the devs have stated plenty of times they aren't gonna punish people for playing with their friends when it was always intended to be that way even when it wasn't an option when the game first came out it was always in the plans to bring it to the game

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,298

    we know they never going to do anything with swf tho it the most unbalance thing in the game.

  • GreenPufferFish
    GreenPufferFish Member Posts: 498

    because that would create problems

  • MusicNerd_TC
    MusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099
    edited August 2020

    SO it's not a problem, even though trapper can be rendered useless with a 4 man? Also, mindgames and stealth killers are pretty much out the window if someone on the swf has OoO. 4 mans with VC is not ok.

  • Shenanigan
    Shenanigan Member Posts: 208

    I don't know I genuinely would like to know that I'm going against a swf. If I'm good with a killer I want to test my skills and most likely practice to get better with them I'm not sure if they were but I was probably up against one as nurse and suffice to say it went better than I expected and it boosted my morale a bit because I was put up against a coordinated team and I pushed surprisingly better than I expected. Plus there has to be a time and place where people have to stop lobby dodging at some point... right?

    Would it matter if it was a 2 man swf and the other two teammates are solo Q? If you prefer just a Solo Q team then it's almost like trying to get into a public match with your friends but you're playing as killer.

  • MusicNerd_TC
    MusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099
    edited August 2020

    2 years ago killer was terrible, but the game has been improving overtime, and it may be close to balance, but it isn't quite there yet. It isn't as 'easy' as you say it is, if you play certain killers. Sure, legion, spirit, ghostface and Freddy are easy as #########, but SWF is not ok. If you think SWF is ok, tell me, does rendering mindgames, stealth, blindness perks, blindness add-ons, trapper, blood warden etc ok?

  • LetsPlayTogether
    LetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117

    So killers can cherry Pick their games? Surely not.

  • MusicNerd_TC
    MusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099

    Back then, you just hoped nobody had DS, because it was LITERALLY a get out of jail free card. Or you would play nurse and hag, who were the only viable killers back then.

  • Pawcelot
    Pawcelot Member Posts: 985

    This. The data will show how badly SWF impact the game. I don't think it'll matter much if we could see the SWFs or not, and I doubt many will care about it after a few weeks. It'll be a dodging increase in the beginning, that's for granted. It'll stop.

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,219

    But even the not-squad-teams share the advantage of communication, and have therefore more potential than players of the same skill without it. And if you balance around the solos, even the non-squad swf are op, and need to be balanced around, but then solo survivors suffer.

  • teamdehn
    teamdehn Member Posts: 222

    I think a good start at trying to balance swf is to take away a perk slot. Coms give the swf many advantages taking away one slot to compensate for all the information they get would be a step in the right direction

  • Leovanni
    Leovanni Member Posts: 52

    Since MMR came out I am almost exclusively play 3-4 swf or killer. It's seems to be the only way to get an even match (1-2 out, 2-3 dead).

    Problem with swf: has no effect if they aren't using a voice chat or are not in the same room. 2 player swf, barely does anything that a map or key cant do.

    3-4 players with voice chat, it's fuxking difficult to counter as killer. But tbh, it hasn't really affected my games as killer unless they are like red ranked and can actually use the knowledge to their advantage.

    When I play swf (4), we normally don't even talk about what's happening in the game, we just chat or try to get each other killed.

    "Hey **** where are you?" "Uh, at the gen by the shack" "k, I brought you a hillbilly"

    Also I am 90% sure they tell you it's a swf group via the little globe symbol by their name. It's not common and I've only had one game where I noticed it made a difference (see above example with red ranks).

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,525

    SWF doesn't render all that useless at all, it's simply hyperbolic statements, SWF is fine, Solo is unplayable currently, and has been for quite some time, I would happily take playing killer against SWFs over playing solo all day.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,525

    The fact you sitll use the term infinites tells me you're still stuck in time.

  • MusicNerd_TC
    MusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099

    Actually, OoO does render trapper and mindgames useless with enough coordination, also, it DOES render blindness useless, what's that point of not seeing your team mates when you know where they are anyways? I do agree, there are so whiny one sided people in this game, but SWF with voice chat is genuinely an issue.

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,525

    So the issue is with OOO not SWF, you don't just get to blame SWF on a perk issue lmao