If SWF aren't an issue, why not allow people to know they are going against it?
Title.
If SWF aren't an issue, it wouldn't hurt to let killers and other solo players know they are playing with premade.
Comments
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SWF isn't an issue for the devs..not the killers. Killers will start to dodge lobbies if they realize they are going to go against a SWF.
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Bc people want to play with friends and Killer's would dodge the lobby instant. Which means a longer queue time for swf.
I know swf is very unfair to the Killer but if this nerf would be coming more people who play survivor would be quit or play more Killer. What means longer queue for Killer as well.
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Well, like I said, if SWFs aren't such an issue, it wouldn't hurt to let everybody know they are going against SWF.
And if everybody is going to dodge SWF, then SWF is an issue that needs to be addressed.
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Because killers are going to dodge them
I'm of the mind that while SWAT TEAM SWF exists, they are not nearly as prevalent as people believe they are (to put a number down, let's call it 15%).
So while 15% of SWFs are God mode jerks, 85% of SWFs are friends who just want to play together. BUT if you're a killer and you see 4 SWF group, why would you even gamble on getting stuck with the jerk SWAT SWF team? Now any SWF team, regardless of actual skill, is getting lobby dodged constantly and they quit, killing a large chunk of your playerbase and possibly killing your entire game as enough people quit.
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There are also 2 contradicting arguments that come into play.
a) there are so much swf, the game would die if you nerf them in any way
b) swf is a minority, thats why you cant balance the game around swf.
SWF is an issue, but they don´t want to adress it. Its that simple.
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So that means SWF ARE an ISSUE that NEEDS to be addressed.
It's not fair to put people against groups that can do what normal survivors cannot without these people even knowing that.
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Also this, they should decide whether SWF are a majority that the game should be balanced around or a minority that doesn't make a difference.
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ez dodge
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There needs to be something in the post game screen that says who was using SWF. I'd like to know if I am either a bad player, or just at a disadvantage during the match. This screen would benefit both killer and solo survivor and better allow people to judge their skills.
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Exactly. Since so many people play in a swf (which I´m in no way against, I mean, come on let friends play a coop game) yet in the case of DBD it causes massive balance issues. They haven´t been adressed for YEARS and I doubt they ever will.
So yeah, just like survivor players having to deal with 3k hours ebony mori Spirits and Forever Freddys, killers have to deal with swf ( not the best comparison but I feel it´s about equally as frustrating).
BHVR is hesitant to touch on the matter since they hold some sort of customer power through sheer numbers.
On a side note I think it´s hard to balance it without making it less fun for survivors, so there´s that. It puts the devs in a tough spot.
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Yes, it is an issue...only when you go against the 15% of SWAT TEAM SWF groups
The primary issue here is there are two kinds of SWF groups
- The group of friends who want to play together
- The SWAT Team
Group 1 is great to play with. They're fun; they get to have a good time with their friends while I as the killer get to go through my normal Killer Duties and stab people
Group 2 is the problem. While this may be anecdotal evidence, I have found that the SWAT Team is usually not only damn impossible to beat since they are in constant communication with each other but they're always the biggest toxic ######### to play again. If there is a cheap tactic, they'll use it and if they get any chance at all to mock the killer, they will 1000% take it.
The problem is that I don't know how you could solve Group 2 without directly hurting Group 1. What you are currently asking for would downright kill SWF because of a much smaller group of God Mode SWF teams as no killer would risk going up against Group 1 if they had the choice. My guess is BHVR currently isn't doing anything against SWF because there's no decent way to balance out nerfing SWAT SWF that wouldn't also directly hammer (and possibly kill) the casual SWF teams so BHVR just kind of lets it go and to be blunt, I would kind of have to agree.
While it sucks to get stuck with SWAT SWF, the sheer design of the game for survivors can mean that people who are just stupid amounts of efficient will always be able to steam roll over Killers. There's nothing you can really do to design that out of the game because if you adjust the objectives, "normal" players are going to have no chance. If you adjust the SWF part, "normal" SWFs who just want to play with their buddies for a few hours are going to have no chance.
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They should just seperate swf from solo queue and balance both queues acordingly. If both modes were balanced, there would be no need to dodging them. And in case of 3man-swf, they can buff the random solo survivor via kindred/bound/whatever and still make it haveway balanced.
Also, they can give incentives to killers and solo survivors to join the swf-queue (which again, would be as balanced as solo) in form of additional bp, xp, or whatever.
This would also keep the solo experience intact which resolves about a lack of information, and thats the way some of us prefer the game.
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I think a 3 man or higher should notify you. Two man SWF is not going to be a sweat squad
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As others have stated people would dodge also in no way are the developers ever going to find a sweet spots for SWF's its not possible you can't balance around comms they will always have some sort of advantage with that being said people give swf's to much praise not all of them are even that good sure there's like a 1% team that is insanely good but ive only faced one since the mmr came out and i still killed two. People just find something to blame a loss on instead of paying attention to what they likely did wrong its seriously over hyped a lot.
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The thing is while group 2 will be impossible to beat by and bully even top tier killer players, group 1 is a wide field of skill and intentions.
Ranging from 4 potatoes playing together over 4 people just trying to just play for fun (maybe even with just meme builds instead of meta) to 4 men groups trying to reach those 15% in terms of skill and more often in terms of toxicity.
And the advantage of comms that come with swf will be used by good percentage of those 85%. More or less effective but I can show you a YouTuber that played with friends like the last potatoes but still managed to win just by communicating.
To the average killer even the half of those 85% that just can play good enough to beat them hard and unintentional use some toxic stuff (many survs tbag for really just for fun/to indicate something to others) will FEEL like the mentioned 15%. This is making a good amount more than 15% feel unfair.
This would still lead to most killers dodging 3-4 man's which would hurt the game overall.
The best and often mentioned solution is buffing solos with information via making some perks baseline and then giving killers more power in correspondence.
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It’s like being an ostrich.... if one keeps their head in the sand, everything that is going on isn’t actually happening because the ostrich can’t see it. This is behaviors philosophy regarding swf. Killers will dodge it all the time.
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Because it serves no purpose knowing if you are going against a swf or not..
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Because for one, its not a problem, but people want it to be. So if someone sees a swf they make it a self fulfilling prophecy and go super hard against them, to "stop the problem".
Secondly, it does no good to know. 4 person solo squads can be just as good, and either way its irrelevant. Play the game, move on to the next. Them being a group doesnt change much. Maybe the difficulty a little, but you cant have easy games all the time...
The only people who would benefit/act on this information are people who are ALREADY biased against swf for any reason they can muster.
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Neither is 4 man just because of the group size.
It's like saying killers/survivors are toxic. It's the players, not the role. You can have god solos and potato 4 man squads.
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I've said this BEFORE and I'll say it again. SWF is a HUGE problem because it causes ripples throughout the game. It is EASILY addressed. There should be the following types of matches:
- Solo where you don't come in with a group and you can't see the real ID info of the other Survivors until the end of the match. Thus, no communication OUTSIDE the game itself. There are Perks for that (like Kindred), and gesture animations.
- Custom games where you CAN go in and play with your friends and a willing Killer. Everyone is on the same page and understands it is SWF.
- SWF League Play, where groups can go earn blood points together as a REGISTERED TEAM, and the Killers know what they are facing and the DEV can do appropriate Buffs or situation alterations to balance the extreme advantage SWF provides.
That's it. It solves the problem. Two out of three of these allow you to play with your friends. It prevents Solo players from being at a disadvantage for Rank as they aren't competing against Teams (they get their own grouping), and Killers don't have to face broken OUT OF GAME knowledge and coordination unless they want to do it and where it has been balanced for them. In addition, Leagues, i.e. teams would add a great new dimension to this game.
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Please explain how they can address SWF whilst not losing a significant portion of their revenue and inkeepong with their "no knee-jerk" policy.
Actually, it's mostly just that 1 policy that is... Not killing, but throttling the game. They like to make decisions and changes nice and slow because they are scared. Take the Ruin nerf: any moron could have said that something needed to be done about gen speeds AT THE SAME TIME. Nothing was done and the already quick killer ques became literally instant for a solid few months. They are dedicated to this policy. That, and the stats, seem to be their golden idols. So they are essentially forced to work within these parameters.
Which means than any suggestion for balancing out SWF without potentially killing the game needs to be simple. Is it paradoxical? Yes. But those are the rules they follow, so keep that in mind.
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Because (a) half the player base is SWF but (b) only a small percentage of that half are the SWAT SWF that people want to balance the game around.
Based on the stats they shared in 2019 (which obviously could've changed and had other factors included) half of the survivor player base was SWF. About 30% was 2SWF, about 10% was 3SWF, and about 3-6% was 4SWF. The SWF SWAT teams only make up a percentage of the 3-6% player base, and if you want you can even include some from the 10% of 3SWF. That's such a small percentage of survivor player base to balance around. Nerfing would drive away the ones that are just playing with their friends and most nerfs people suggest will actually hurt the random solos more that are tossed in with the 2SWF and 3SWF.
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Checking player profiles to see who is a group is already possible. So why not make this information easier accessible?
I want to know if I have to use better addons or
switch to another killer.lobbydodge because I don't want to play against a 4 man with my babywraith who has a daily.SWF gives enough advantages, so at least a notification shouldn't be that much of a problem.
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Because they know people will dodge. SWF is the most unbalanced thing in the game. It gives way too much of an advantage. You get to pick your teammates skill level, you get constant info over coms for free. You get to coordinated things like last second saves to maximize time on gens, body blocking is much easier and so on. If SWF wasn't an issue there wouldn't be so much complaining about it. When decent players play SWF it is too strong, but this is usually met with "well not all SWF are good and some are just people that want to play with their friends". While this is true, you have to remember this is a PVP game. Usually PVP games are balanced around what is possible at the top level. When things are not, you get balance issues like we have with DBD.
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Your thoughts on this would kill the game, so I guess you would rather have no game at all than have a challenge? Swf is fine in fact id be willing to bet they die more often trying to help each other. If people want to play EZ games go play the bots on mobile, swf isn't going anywhere and the devs have stated plenty of times they aren't gonna punish people for playing with their friends when it was always intended to be that way even when it wasn't an option when the game first came out it was always in the plans to bring it to the game
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we know they never going to do anything with swf tho it the most unbalance thing in the game.
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Triggered, sensitive, insecure players will avoid them. It would be no different than letting survivors know what killer they are facing, even if you locked their current build in. They'd see they are facing Spirit and leave lobby. WTH is the point of that? Punished for playing a killer, or punished for playing a GAME with friends?
Stop with this silliness. I face SWF non-stop and though it can get frustrating at times, most suck horribly and try so hard to be a top-tier streamer while turning out to be a rotten potato. There is way too much crying about SWF on this forum. Yes, comms give an advantage, but I'd rather see them buff solo survivor and killers as opposed to letting us know when there is an SWF or nerfing SWF.
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I fight so many swf.... at least half of them suck tbh or just wanna enjoy a casuals game and not be sweaty survivors, but people gonna Dodge just because theyre scared to try and learn. SwF CAN be beaten, its not a god mod that gives you free wins
The only loby imma gonna Dodge is the 4 claudette SWF with 4FL/ toolboxes....you know theyre gonna be meanies anyway, hide, FL, blend again and genrush to another dimension
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this game is so insanely easy for killer to what it used to be 2/3 years ago, I doubt any of you would have stuck around for more than a few months, y'all have it so easy now lol.
SWF is fine.
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Considering survivors vaulting faster at any angle, the slowness of killer vault speed, instablinds, LITERALLY INFINITE LOOPS, etc. - it's a wonder this game survived at all. How did killers ever kill anyone? You're right, I wouldn't have stuck around... what's your point?
The problem with SWF is that it's impossible to balance the game. If you make survivors weaker to balance around SWF, the solo queue is impossible. If you do the opposite, SWF becomes too easy. Right now it's leaning more towards SWF being too easy, because frankly games end in 6 minutes if people know how to do gens and not rush to unhook.
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because that would create problems
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Amen
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Killer back then knew how to play instead of trying to catch someone looping at an infinite loop they tried to catch other survivor.
There's too many high rank killer that still tunnel it's actually a bit sad.
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I played through all of that but hey guess what? Not many people back then knew how to abuse that stuff. Sure I had the occasional person abusing an infinite but nowadays, most people know how strong they are and abuse the ability they have. Abuse the second chance perks. Abuse mechanics that guarantee them a free win. Get out of here with that "killer is easy" yeah. To someone like me who has 4k hours in killer, sure. But this game is not relaxing when playing killer. Even with 4k killers hours, I still have games when I'm on the back foot because of poor map design, swf, OoO, and the countless second chance perks.
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SO it's not a problem, even though trapper can be rendered useless with a 4 man? Also, mindgames and stealth killers are pretty much out the window if someone on the swf has OoO. 4 mans with VC is not ok.
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I don't know I genuinely would like to know that I'm going against a swf. If I'm good with a killer I want to test my skills and most likely practice to get better with them I'm not sure if they were but I was probably up against one as nurse and suffice to say it went better than I expected and it boosted my morale a bit because I was put up against a coordinated team and I pushed surprisingly better than I expected. Plus there has to be a time and place where people have to stop lobby dodging at some point... right?
Would it matter if it was a 2 man swf and the other two teammates are solo Q? If you prefer just a Solo Q team then it's almost like trying to get into a public match with your friends but you're playing as killer.
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2 years ago killer was terrible, but the game has been improving overtime, and it may be close to balance, but it isn't quite there yet. It isn't as 'easy' as you say it is, if you play certain killers. Sure, legion, spirit, ghostface and Freddy are easy as #########, but SWF is not ok. If you think SWF is ok, tell me, does rendering mindgames, stealth, blindness perks, blindness add-ons, trapper, blood warden etc ok?
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So killers can cherry Pick their games? Surely not.
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Back then, you just hoped nobody had DS, because it was LITERALLY a get out of jail free card. Or you would play nurse and hag, who were the only viable killers back then.
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This. The data will show how badly SWF impact the game. I don't think it'll matter much if we could see the SWFs or not, and I doubt many will care about it after a few weeks. It'll be a dodging increase in the beginning, that's for granted. It'll stop.
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So your idea is if swf isn't an issue then why can't killers know they are facing it. That's like me saying if no killer is op then why can't survivors know who they're facing?
It's because both sides would bring things that give them an unfair advantage (flashlights for hag and ebony mori for swf) or dodge.
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But even the not-squad-teams share the advantage of communication, and have therefore more potential than players of the same skill without it. And if you balance around the solos, even the non-squad swf are op, and need to be balanced around, but then solo survivors suffer.
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I think a good start at trying to balance swf is to take away a perk slot. Coms give the swf many advantages taking away one slot to compensate for all the information they get would be a step in the right direction
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Its true i wouldn´t have played killer 2-3 years ago, because i didnt, because i am a survivor main anyway.
But i play solo survivor most of the time, and my escape rate is way higher than 50%, its actually about 70% (and yeah, i keept stats for several hundert games).
Do you have any idea what my survival rate was when i did play swf? i have to say i didnt keep stats of that, but i rarely died at all, with the exception of some high level hillbillys prior to the rework, or the odd mori.
I just wonder why other survivors don´t admit to this.
Anyway, i stopped playing, because if you actually died in one game, the mood in the group went way down. Also, the game felt very much mechanic, because there was no guessing, you always knew if you were in any kind of danger or not. That took the thrill out of the game for me.
Thats why i play mostly solo nowadys, or with swf without com. Because this way, the game has some uncertainties left for me, and i prefer it that way.
And dont get me wrong, i dont think the devs will ever adress swf. But that just means the game will someday die to a lack of killers.
The "i get matched against inexperienced killers" threads come from the fact that to reduce lobby times for high skill survivors, they need to bring in lower skilled killers, because there are simply not enough high skilled killers left to match with those swf.
thats at least my opinion. But time will tell.
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Since MMR came out I am almost exclusively play 3-4 swf or killer. It's seems to be the only way to get an even match (1-2 out, 2-3 dead).
Problem with swf: has no effect if they aren't using a voice chat or are not in the same room. 2 player swf, barely does anything that a map or key cant do.
3-4 players with voice chat, it's fuxking difficult to counter as killer. But tbh, it hasn't really affected my games as killer unless they are like red ranked and can actually use the knowledge to their advantage.
When I play swf (4), we normally don't even talk about what's happening in the game, we just chat or try to get each other killed.
"Hey **** where are you?" "Uh, at the gen by the shack" "k, I brought you a hillbilly"
Also I am 90% sure they tell you it's a swf group via the little globe symbol by their name. It's not common and I've only had one game where I noticed it made a difference (see above example with red ranks).
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SWF doesn't render all that useless at all, it's simply hyperbolic statements, SWF is fine, Solo is unplayable currently, and has been for quite some time, I would happily take playing killer against SWFs over playing solo all day.
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The fact you sitll use the term infinites tells me you're still stuck in time.
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Actually, OoO does render trapper and mindgames useless with enough coordination, also, it DOES render blindness useless, what's that point of not seeing your team mates when you know where they are anyways? I do agree, there are so whiny one sided people in this game, but SWF with voice chat is genuinely an issue.
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So the issue is with OOO not SWF, you don't just get to blame SWF on a perk issue lmao
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