Gen rushing is the main problem at high rank
When playing killer against survivors that know the game, even if they are noobs at juking/looping, they succeed to do all gens in 5 minutes.
Played two times in a row against SWF high rank (they clearly knew the game), and i clearly couldn't do anything, even though i ended every chase in ~30 sec.
Gens finished in 5 minutes exactly (i recorded the game and checked), door opened instantly after.
Found the first survivor 10 seconds after spawning. Got 1 kill + 2 hooked.
Survivors didn't have any chase skill, they did some loops but nothing awesome, never lost my track.
There is a real problem with this.
Ah and, to mention it, i play surv in a great SWF, each of us goes out 90% of the time when we play together. We struggle against high skilled spirit and the hag, that's all.
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Honestly I don’t believe it’s gen speeds at all it all comes down to garbage loops, maps, and the amount of communication and safety swf gives you
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Sounds like the issue is that you are taking too long after a hook to find and chase a new survivor. As if you were able to down survivors in 30 seconds you could easily get another hook before they saved the previous guy reducing the number of survivors doing gens to 1.
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I think slowing down gens is not the solution. I feel like there should be a new mechanic for making gens or looking for tools to make gens, this is usually a problem early in the match.
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It's absolutely gen speeds, there needs to be another objective I ended a match against a rank one Oni in less than 5 minutes today he got 2 hooks and the gate powered , BT the hooked survivor and everyone escaped , the problem is if the survivors all seperate on gens they get done too fast and you almost have to get a down in the first 40 seconds or GG because 3 gens are popping
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Maybe stop camping hooks and you'll make it to others
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I think it has to do with player skill level. It’s getting harder to say that with recent MMR issues, but is there a chance the killer played badly? We all go in and out of potato.
If the killer doesn’t chase, drops chases, runs tiles poorly, doesn’t regress generators, misses hits/abilities, doesn’t hook slugs: generators will go by quickly. Play a game of AFK Wraith and see how long gens go for and it’s probably about the same.
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If thats what you encounter than why no NOED? If they're glued to gens and not doing totems it seems like an easy solution.
We've seen what happens when survivors have another objective and it was a complete disaster for everyone involved and made kills way too easy when playing killer. I dont think a second objective is the answer.
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Let's say you need 10 seconds at the start of the round to find the 1st surv.
Chase 30 sec (it's a short one), yo utake the surv, you hook him/her, 10 more seconds.
Then you have BBQ, so you know where they are and you have to cross the map to get to another surv, let's say 15 sec to cross the map then chase 30 sec and again hook, let's say 5 sec.
Total for 2 hooks : 100 seconds.
If they have some tool boxes and let's put in some variables (it takes you a little longer to catch a surv etc...), it's 3 gens done, for 2 hooks.
Not fair at all...
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if they had no chase skill you obviously did something really wrong.
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I agree pretty much.
Losing a game when you won every chase very quickly.
I want to lose because I was outplayed, not because gens are too fast. That is the most annoying thing.
Honestly I think the issue is less gen speed though, or more about map size and map design. The map sizes and how they are laid out just leaves it almost impossible to pressure the survivors how much you need to in order to slow the game down properly if they are even half decent. Obviously some small exception like Nurse, Spirit etc, but were are talking in general with most of the killer roster.
Currently as survivor your entire team could be completely trash at looping and all go down extremely quickly, but if you all know how to hold M1 on gens and not waste time you can still easily win. That's an issue imo.
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Gen rushing does not exist, next
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Hopefully the new MMR is going to more accurately reveal the issues in high level (in terms of skill) games. Rank never meant anything so it was difficult for the devs to look at matches with high level players because how would you distinguish those matches from others?
The new MMR should be very useful for that.
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The " main " problem at all ranks in every game is hit boxes
I want to lose cause I got mind gamed and out played not because I have the hit box of a elephant
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You recorded the game? Can you upload it so that we can critique it?
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Complaining about map design is pointless. It is not going to change. Reworked Badham will always have a school and that school will always have 3-4 safe/god pallets, a very strong window and the other maps which have jungle gyms will not change. A big issue for killers is how easy it is for survivor to "trade-down" pallets for generators at any point in the match. It does not matter if it happens early or mid game. It only takes 3 people to hold M1 generators in linear alignment(To avoid 3 gens) and for the killer to over-commit/make a few bad reads to lose the match. Fast chases is also relative term because the majority of killers lack lethality capitalize on survivor errors and those that do have instant down capacity do not have tools to challenge looping with rare exception to the Oni. Its one of main reasons why body blocking can be very effective strategy against most killers.
The alternative solution becomes picking killers that have highest probability to win all loops such as Nurse and Spirt mixed with perks that slow the game down which most commonly are sloppy,ruin/pop and sometimes Corrupt intervention. If survivors find it boring to hold M1 longer, than perhaps adding more reliable exposed perks that not rely on Haunted ground or Devour hope RNG factor would help killers have faster chases as mistakes would be more penalized.
The current problem is that majority of the killers can't capitalize on survivor mistakes quickly enough to change outcome of the match and those that can rely on perks halt generator progression and info perks.
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"Complaining about map design is pointless. It is not going to change."
This is quite literally and factually incorrect. They just released a slew of map reworks trying to address this issue. Some fixed, some not enough, and some map not touched yet.
"The current problem is that majority of the killers can't capitalize on survivor mistakes quickly enough to change outcome of the match and those that can rely on perks halt generator progression and info perks."
You are seeing the bandaid solutions as the actual solutions. Insta downs and Exposed are not what's needed or solely allowing the killers to capitalize. Prime examples, Spirit and Nurse. They have neither but are still top tier.
What does make killers top tier is their ability to end chases quickly(this doesn't have to be insta downs or Exposed), are in control of the chase and map pressure. However, the reason those are the deciding factor on what makes a killer strong is because of the map design.
Killers shouldn't have to rely on survivor mistakes to win. Survivors should be reacting to killers, not the other way around. This is why Nurse and Spirit are strong. They are dictating the chase, not the survivor. This type of design philosophy is built into those killers but it can be given to all killers in the map maps and loops are designed. Loops are currently designed extremely safe and where there is very little room for "actual" mind games.
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It's simple really.
1. Once a gen is complete, a 30 cooldown is triggered. Gens can't be worked on for that duration. Survivors can run and hide, not a big deal. Also any other gen would be reset.
2. Add native regression for when a gen isn't being worked on.
3. Remove gen tapping.
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Good GRIEF yall want solo/even duo SWF to become even more hellish than it already is...
Your ideas would make three gens nearly unwinnable unfortunately. Which you can say is fair enough, survivors got outplayed and should have tried harder not to get 3 genned, but it is very difficult to avoid a 3 gen in a 4 solo queue match, especially if the killer is setting up for a 3 gen from the very beginning. You think boosted red rank Blendette is thinking about a 3 gen? Nah bih, she brought a key so she's big chilling. Controlling for a 3 gen is a very, very good strategy and should always be something to shoot for, but it still shouldn't be an automatic win for the killer imo
This game isn't just meant to be balanced for high level or for godly SWFs, it has to be playable for the people who don't have friends to play with and thus queue up with unreliable randoms, and for mid level players.
I agree that gen speeds could have a look taken at them. At least make it easier for killer to locate at least one survivor before the first gen of the game pops. But most suggestions I see absolutely would baby killers. I'm looking forward to whatever their new upcoming early game mechanic looks like regarding gens
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'Gen rushing doesn't exist' then neither does hook rushing (aka tunneling).
Enjoy.
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No they would not. I mean sure if you are a lazy player who's never played a more complex game that this. Sure if you need you hand held and wins given to you.
It's this simple, if one survivor can loop a killer while all the gens get done. Then all 4 can.
Sorry, I'm not a millenial, I'm not a casual gamer, and I'm not a mindless sheep that follows the flock.
Also, I was able to bring a key on my first day playing after a couple matches and getting one in the bloodweb. Didnt seem to complex when I had noob status. Still doesn't.
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So, you're admitting here that every chase you commited to took you the equivalent of 40-45% of a generator repair. Yeah, I don't think the gen speed is the issue here, love.
You cannot commit to people for that long "that aren't good at looping or juking" and moan about gen speed if it's taking you that long to down them. Maybe rotate and juggle your pressure near gens as opposed to just following survivors to whatever tile they take you to.
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Um, what? I barely understand what you're saying LOL what are you talking about with the key part? I'M saying that if you're playing solo queue or even duo SWF, very often your teammates DON'T CARE about 3 genning because they were already planning on playing for hatch, or brought a key and WANT someone to die before all the gens are done so they can leave as soon as hatch spawns. If you haven't experienced that, it's either because you rarely ever play solo queue, or you have been VERY lucky with who you get as teammates.
If you have default gen regression, take away gen tapping, and give the killer a full 30 seconds of no gens being worked on to see that he has a great 3 gen going and can take that time to check out the surroundings or set up (in the case of killers like Hag, Trapper, etc), that's awesome for the killer but makes late game incredibly difficult for survivors on a strategy that is already very good at this point without your proposals. It's not about it barely affecting non casual, non sheep, non millennial (LMFAO) players- it's about how the average survivor lobby will have an extremely difficult time dealing with it. Also, idk how you play killer but when someone has a 3 gen going, he doesn't *usually* hard commit to chases- he defends those three gens to the best of his ability while injuring and showing he will slug injured teammates to keep pressure on gens.
Regardless, this is a pointless debate because fortunately, I would be very, very surprised if devs implemented those suggestions. If anything, the "unfinished gens are blocked by the entity for 20/30ish seconds after one is finished" sounds like a great perk idea. Having it default definitely sounds like too much to me. But I wouldn't mind it as something that takes up a perk slot.
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Are you illiterate and forgetfull? You mentioned a red ranked blendette bringing a key? If you know enough to say that you know enough to understand what I said.
Try playing a more complex game than this and then we will talk.
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The game is weird, when I play as a red rank killer with Corrupt, Ruin, BBQ, and POP the coordination of decent red rank survivors is incredible they plow through the gens. Multiple games where two gens pop by the end of the first chase. Survivors always always do ggez, and tell me how I need to die, etc.
When I jump over my red rank survivor side the teams suck. I get rank 1 (me), rank 7, rank 12, and rank 18. What the? The killer is almost always oni, spirit, doctor, deathslinger, <archive killer for challenges>
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"Also, I was able to bring a key on my first day playing after a couple matches and getting one in the bloodweb. Didnt seem to complex when I had noob status. Still doesn't."
What am I supposed to take away from this paragraph of yours? Are you saying that I should be bringing a key every match that I see a key carrying Blendette in the pre game lobby, so that I have insurance in case she abandons ship early? That's the only way I could see how I could have misunderstood whatever you were saying.
I think you might be the one who is not fully comprehending what I was saying when I brought up survivors who dont give an F about if they three gen the team. In voice comm SWF it is fairly easy to avoid a three gen, because you can let your teammates know that they should pick a different gen to work on so that it doesn't happen, but:
1. That communication does not exist in solo queue, and even well meaning solo queue teammates can make mistakes and 3 gen- it of course should be a good advantage for the killer if that happens (and it is), but still not an automatic easy win for the killer.
2. Random teammates (like the imaginary key carrying Blendette) often do NOT care if there is a three gen, and do not care if they screw you over in their race to finish gens so the hatch can visibly spawn and they can plan their escape (with or without a key). They're not team players, they're out for their own escape.
Also, I'm perfectly fine with this game and other games that are complex. That is completely irrelevant.
It sounds like you have a harder time dealing with the game than I do, anyway? You're weirdly defensive about how I reasonably challenged your gen regression ideas.
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Bro what are you TALKING about??
"If one survivor can loop all gens then all 4 can" Who's running you for all the gens king??? LOL. Her point is strictly that if you nerf a side of the game based on a specific scenario that is 100% the most optimal way to play the game (Sweaty SWF) then you're not really doing any favors to the game's health.. Because obviously that is the MOST optimal way to play. The game's health is the best its ever been for sure, sorry that you struggle even during these times of MMR going against rank 16's every match running you for all the gens.
"Play a more complex game then we'll talk"
You sound like a neckbeard talking about complex games and calling people millenials ;P
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Did I say someone ran me for all gens? No I did not. Though plenty of people have brought that aspect up on these forums. Evey time I turn around I'm reading about infinite loops and how easy it is for survivors to run killers. Or am I mistaken?
You are correct in that gen rushing is the most optimal way to play. However it is also true that it's heavily one sided. It's honestly the primary reason many killers play toxic because playing toxic is the only way to stop it consistantly.
Yes this game is very simplistic in its design and nature. There are plenty of games that require actual thought and effort. They also require multiple strategies, not just one be all end all.
And neckbeard? First how is that even an insult? Second, assuming that was true of me despite being clean shaven, what would that have to do with anything I have said? Hmmm? FYI, calling someone a neckbeard is a very millenial thing to do. My five year old nephew has better insults than you.
Also I'm positive that if I was completely off base, a model or dev would step in. Til they do, have a coke and a smile and stfu.
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What you are supposed to take away is rank has nothing to do with bringing a key, which you brought up. Pay attention.
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delete
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What you're saying about the loops and tiles is true, that I'm not disagreeing with. Almost everything in your post is accurate and I agree with. However, "Complaining about map design is like complaining about entire game." is just not a true statement. The game itself is not boiled down to the maps.
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Why are you focused on the rank I chose to say? The implication is that regardless of rank, someone can just dip on the remaining survivors while having a selfish mentality the whole game, and that it isn't exclusive to low ranks. You're focusing on the wrong thing; the red rank part is completely irrelevant except to say that this happens at any rank and if it happens with a competent killer it's even worse for the survivors. I'll quote myself and reword it.
"You think boosted red rank Blendette is thinking about a 3 gen? Nah bih, she brought a key so she's big chilling"
Rewording:
"All survivors should ideally be thinking about what gens they work on, so that they can strategically avoid a 3 gen. But many survivors are selfish (regardless of rank) and they are playing solely for themselves. They don't care if the end of the game is very difficult because they've planned on going for hatch since the beginning OR hiding while the rest of the team does the grunt work while they make sure they don't get caught. So they work on whatever gens are easiest for them without caring if they 3 gen the team."
Does that make more sense to you now? I used a lot of slang in my first comment which understandably may have been difficult to decipher if you aren't familiar with the terms.
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You see, I'm focus on the rank because you brought it up. I was talking about gens, and you brought red ranked blendette with a key into the equation. Spend more time focusing on what you type instead of me and we wont have this issue. Or am I mistaken in how this went down? Outside of this I'm paying you no more attention.
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Ps. I understood every word of slang you used. It was all just irrelevant to what I was trying to say is all. It was like going to a mechanic to have your car fixed, and they respond by talking about getting a sex change.
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Instead of just complaining about genrushing, let’s brainstorm on ways to fix it.
- Secondary Objectives
- Better Builds
- Better Strategies When Chasing
- How to Maintain Pressure
Complaining isn’t going to do anything but get you negative attention on the forums, and we need no more of that.
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Bro these are the points you're making, you just need to stop posting on here fr. Killers don't need to be babied they need to get better lol. These "Rank 1 Oni's" are not good Oni's if they get two whole hooks a match bro. 2 hooks in one match is embarrassing. So either the rank 1 killer everyone in this thread is fighting is just plain bad or someone's lying. You have to literally fall asleep mid match to only get two hooks as a red rank..
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Honestly its nothing to do with the gen speed. I've played against many gen rushers and the best way to counter them is to simply patrol gens and end chases that you know have taken a while.
I hate when people think gens should take longer to be done, no you just need to prioritise gens more. Equip gen perks like pop and discordance if you're struggling to control gens.
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It would seem like the issue you're having isn't with gen rushing, but with map pressure. While chasing and hooking survivors are obviously two important things for a killer, you also need to be able to pressure survivors off generators. You "couldn't do anything, even though I eneded every chase in ~30 sec" sounds like you completely ignored the generators. Not to mention spending 30 seconds chasing a survivor that can't loop or juke is very long. Take it from someone who can't loop or juke, my chases are never longer than 15 seconds. Think about it. Survivors are slower than killers when running. If I can't loop a tile then the distance between me and the killer will be reduced much faster than if I could loop.
Spending 30 seconds not being able to close distance against someone who doesn't know how to loop? That sounds just plain crazy.
My recommendation for you would be to break chase and find the other survivors. Have more of a map or gen pressure and you'll see that generators won't pop as often. As someone who also plays as killer, I struggled with keeping generators up because I did exactly what you did. Not saying I'm any better as a killer, what I am trying to highlight is that it's not all about winning chases and hooking survivors. You played two games back to back where it sounds like you ignored the generators and what happened? The gens were popped and survivors escaped.
My worst games as survivor all include a ton of factors, but one of those factors was having a killer who would not stray away from generators that were actively being worked on.
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Oh the same hand, what about toxic high rank killers? Was in a solo match and the Billy slugged everyone down within the first 5 minutes of the game..... there are faults on both sides.
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Gens go fast at first because at best there is 3 people on a gen and 1 in chase. After you get just 1 guy on a hook the gen speeds are perfectly fine. At that point the game is largely in your hands. It's up to you and your abilities with a little RNG as well. If you're getting gen rushed passed the first 2 gens you're just getting outplayed.
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Gen rushing isn't the problem anymore, it boils down to
- Lack of viability in killer's
- Maps
- Lack of objectives for survivor's
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Omg, wait, sorry... I guess I should have been completely generic with what I said because some people can't help but focus on random irrelevant things that are solely mentioned as part of an example when they'd otherwise have to focus on the actual points of the argument. Good to know, I'll make sure I don't make that mistake in the future when I try to civilly bring up points with people who might get defensive for no reason.
I get it, though. I made some points and you had no real rebuttal, so you had to pick apart random irrelevant things to avoid the actual subject, even after I reworded it without any specific example.
And that's fine, continue wanting killers to be babied and have part of the game played for them. So much for your "complex games" comment, eh?
Awesome, it just seemed otherwise.
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Don’t waste your time devs won’t listen
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Hell I've been encountering this a lot because of literal nonstop smurfs. ever since I hit 15 EVERY match has been a smurf match. Its getting ridiculous(This is relevant), I keep facing red rank survivors all the time, and ######### the gens finish so fast. Like when I fix a gen as survivor it takes a bit over a minute yet these guys seem to finish gens in less than a minute. I've had to resort to camping because while these guys do get gens done super fast, they're also incredibly stupid as hell and I usually can just catch them when they try to rescue a survivor literally in front of my face. (Borrowed time doesn't do much if I grab you during the unhook).
I always hated camping when playing survivor, but the higher rank I go the more I feel the need to do it because these guys are running meta perks and I haven't even hit level 50 one 1 killer, so I don't have anything in the way of good perks to use across killers. And the Shrine of secrets usually has random ######### that isn't useful
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Your initial chase is going to be like this only because while your dealing with that first guy, you have 0 pressure on the others making it so 3 people are pumping out gens. After that however, 1 guy has to leave gens to unhook and another is getting chased. This leaves only 1 person actually doing gens. Point being...yes, gen speeds at the beginning are really fast but its unreasonable to think that speed is consistant for the entire trial.
Beyond that however... Maybe try to get in chases abit closer. You said you cross the entire map to get into another chase. If you can et into another one sooner by picking a closer target... that's gonna cut down on time for you and force the guy far away to waste HIS time crossing the map to get the unhook. This will also help you play somewhat territorial so you can prevent gens from popping evenly and making your last gens being across the map from each other. If you see someone working on a gen across the map all on its loansome... let them have it. Its not worth the time.
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