What's actually unbalanced about the game?
Legit, real question. I honestly haven't seen any actual, legitimate answer to this. Essentially 100% of it I've seen so far on the forums is people crying about very specific scenarios and how they got caught while doing it.
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Maps are the biggest issue. There are lots though.
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Spine Chill is up there. Don't even need to look at my screen to know who is doing what.
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add-ons and offerings
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Communication and removal of uncertainty.
Killers gain pressure from hooks against solo players because they don't know if anyone is going for the save or if the person going for a save is being chased. So they end up sitting on gens till the hooked person reaches second stage and inevitably both leave their generator, or they all go for the save meaning no gens are being done.
People on coms just sit on gens and only move if they are told to.
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Map rng is the most unbalanced aspect of the game. In a few words the same map can be survivor sided one round and the next totally killer sided based on how certain windows or pallets appear in the game and how certain tiles connect each other. I dont mind the rng but the way pallets, vaults and tiles works right now is not perfect and can sometimes bring some really bad "unique" tile chains that are not balanced at all, giving a massive advantage to one side each time.
Some people will say that some perks are overpowered and such, I personally disagree a bit with that, some perks are useless and others are very solid, in my opinion we dont have game breaking perks right now.
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I had a map with 3 LT walls leading into each other and the shack at the end of it.
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Players/People...
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SWF is hands down the most unbalanced. the amount of information that comms gives a survivor team is unrivaled. they need to embrace comms and put them in the game because there is no way to balance some ppl having comms and some not. everything else boils down to some salty crying in my opinion.
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The gens go too fast, when you can end games in less than 5 minutes something is very wrong
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Corn
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The random aspect. You could get 4 flashlight warriors all running power perks that slam gens, or you could get a killer that nails cross map hatchets consistently. I personally think people should just throw their hands up and say - random isn't balanced - and be done with it but people want consistency and competitive play.
Not sure where I stand honestly. Give me fast queues and a sprinkle of action every minute or so in a match and I'm gold.
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The game is pretty balanced overall.
There's just a toxic meta cycle where killers tunnel, slug, and camp and then survivors complain about it and then run unbreakable and d-strike to counter those things and then killers complain about those two things not understanding somehow that camping, slugging, and tunneling leads more survivors to equip those things.
I literally just finished up a session where two games in a row, I left the game with less than 4k points because the killer came back to hook immediately (Spirit) and knocked me down and rehooked me. I don't run dstrike so of course they take advantage of this and come back and do it again on my last hook because they know there's nothing I can do about it.
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I sidetracked a little on my comment there ^
but the point is, the game is pretty balanced. People just like to complain about "problems" that they create with their own play styles
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The most unbalanced thing in DBD is the disparity between chase and generator speeds, and the tools and RNG each side can use to lenghten/shorten the chases. Literally every other issue is a part of this giant, overarching, core gameplay mechanic.
The strongest killers have the shortest average chases. The strongest add-ons shorten the chases. The strongest items lengthen the chases. The strongest survivor perks lengthen the chases. The strongest killer perks lengthen the generator times. The strongest items shorten generator times.
3 things in particular effect this more than anything else: Map RNG, survivor perks, and killer strength. In most evenly matched games, 4 DS/UB is an automatic win. In most games, Nurse is an automatic win. The majority of exceptions: when the map RNG is extremely unfavourable.
The reverse is also true. Weak killers and moronic survivors can easily win what should have been a lost game, all thanks to extremely favourable RNG.
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DS would be fine if you couldn't do gens without losing it.
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1) maps
2) certain addons
3) spirit
4) moris
5) keys
6) ds unbreakable
7) i forgot about this but it should be number 1 but mmr
8) the god damn bugs
9) killers that offer no area to use experience during chase ie (deathslinger, phead)
10) OoO on midwich
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Biggest issue is something people usually don’t mention do I’ll say it.
Time before the match ends is the biggest issue with Dead By Daylight. No not generator speeds.
For certain killers they have a harder time pressuring survivors, making the match for them require everything to go exactly how they want it to go, trapper is the best possible example of this as his power requires the survivors to step in his traps, if a survivor never steps near his traps for them to even give him any help then he has no power helping him and nothing stopping gens from bring completed, hence why you would almost 100% of the time see a trapper use old ruin, just because he has nothing stopping generators being completed outside of him going close to it.
So in order for dead by daylight to be fair for every killer on every map without using a perk that prevents generators from being completed (perks like Ruin and Corrupt Intervention), the game needs something that slows down the progress for survivors straight off the bat while giving killers breathing room and helping killers like Demogorgon and Trapper to set up at the start of the match without losing generators immediately.
Without having something like I mentioned, either games will go on for too long or are too fast, with a change that is kinda a “start-game collapse” (I believe this is actually in the works, stated by a dev themselves if I am correct) making the need for killer perks like PGTW and Corrupt not always needed but can help with setting up longer and gain more breathing room.
This “start-game collapse” system can help balance out some maps without the need for the map to be reworked, I might work on an idea for this later but this is all I can come up with
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keys, moris, maps are the worst balance imo, killer addons like iri head, swf breaks the game imo and some perks like ds unbreakable combo on 2-4 survivors can really destroy any momentum a good killer can have.
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Survivor: 99ing resilience you get a 9% speed boost to everything and you can just keep your self at a 1 tap with a medkit, pair it with spine chill and it is a no risk high reward build
Killer: Infectious Fright, it was buffed to be on all attacks instead of just m1's. I am 98.7% sure this is why billy was "reworked" (read nerfed) billy base kit wasn't the problem, infectious fright snowball was, I personally think Oni will be next if they don't do something about infectious.
Fixes for both?
Make it so if you aren't fully healed you start regressing the heal
Infectious (I don't want to say cool down but) perhaps make it so you see Auras instead of sound notifications for 6 seconds but then give it a cool down until you have hooked someone (or a timed cool down)
Or
Or just make it not work on instadowns.
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Sigh... here we go. I'm not getting into another one of those ridiculous arguments where people put stipulations on things that are made up and arbitrary.
DS is there to prevent you from being re-hooked within 60 seconds. What a person chooses to do with those 60 seconds is up to them and they shouldn't be limited in what they can do. You can feel differently which I'm sure you do, but that's my opinion and I'm not getting into a back and forth about it.
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Early game pressure (or lack thereof), maps, perks (looking at you DS) and people expecting things to be easier than they are.
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I think DBD would be near impossible to balance altogether. I think mmr is ridiculous on a game like this and it should just be a fun party game instead...
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But Billy and all other killers should be artificially limited right?
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People actually having no skill and pretending to win nonetheless, from both sides (aka spirit has no counterplay). Most killers having no control over chases, completely relying on survivors to make mistakes to be able to catch them, instead of their own skill. In every competitive game (we talking about balance so that frame has been established) it should be your skill vs your opponent skill, the better player comes on top. Not possible with certain killers (only nurse and spirit, maybe doctor as well).
Some maps, totem perks completely relying on rng, swf. Moris. Keys. DS punishing sometimes killers for actually playing too good instead of tunneling (as supposedly intended). Survivors having way to many 2nd chances DS, BT, 4% on hook (hilarious), even a bloody thing spawns randomly when your team has been destroyed so you can escape rewarding you for your team being completely outplayed. This is not a PVE game, killers don't play an AI role.
The main problem is that balance doesn't happen around the top %, like in any competitive game. However with mmr devs are going to probably be able to identify balance issues way easier. I think that is one of the reasons they were looking forward to implement this system that works so good in competitive games.
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Guessing you haven't played much killer.
Go play on Ormond as a basic M1 killer vs red ranks. Tell me it's balanced. Take you 20-25 seconds to get to the first gen across the map, while they spawn on it. Using discordance, you'll have 2 sets of 2 spawn on opposite sides of the map. Then when you actually find people, unlimited supply of pallets for you to sit and break.
Then you haven't even factored in toolboxes & second chance perks.
Crotus Penn asylum.. Red Forest.. Rotten Fields.. Haddonfield.. just gonna stop there, as i type this your mind is already made up w/head in sand
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I have like 700 hours on Wraith alone.
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I think the RNG is really silly sometimes. When i'm a killer the survivors sometimes get insane RNG loops where it's nearly impossible to catch them without costing the game. For instance a long wall jungle gym where the window is directly facing another loop, which leads directly to the shack window. A good survivor can keep normal m1 killer busy in location like this the entire game if the killer commits to the chase, so what ends up happening is that you need to drop the chase EVERY time a survivor runs to this loop mess.
I also never understood how RNG build in the game. When i'm survivor i often get only short wall window jungle gyms, which are significantly weaker than the window which has long window.
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Yes. If you want to rely on an instant down in order to get kills, then you should have a trade-off. That being don't rely on a power for all downs, or use up more perk slots.
There are also a lot of add-ons for killers with damaging or "offensive" powers, such as the status effects for Huntress' hatchets or Wraith's uncloak boost.
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Moris and Keys are huge balance issues rn.
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Map & some perks
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SWF is the biggest issue, because you can´t balance killers against swf with communication and solo survivors without in one game mode.
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Killers can do the same though with an Ebony Mori?
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it all depends on who you are, what you burn, and where you play as each person will have different thoughts on what is/isnt unbalanced. (disclaimer: this is what ive personally seen while on forums and personal experience. im not a god at the game, so some points may be just me or something that gets better over time.)
starting with who, we see a divide between killers and survivors. in a general blanket of said survivors, high ranked killers such as freddy, nurse, spirit, hag are commonplace among killers that need nerfs according to survivorfolk, along with any number of others depending on the person. also, perks like NOED (no one escapes death) is a touchy subject to some, along with perks that stop or at least hinder their preferred playstyle, or stop the higher ranked builds being so powerful. on the killers side, we see more a case of perks seen as unbalanced less than the actual survivors, but a blendette (a claudette wearing dark clothing to 'blend' with the dismal environment) is an issue seen among killers. i am in this camp of players, as a killer main. general consensus is that some perk combonations, like Decisive Strike (DS) unbreakable, and borrowed time are seen as a lose lose situation for the killer. pick them up? get stunned. leave them on the floot? they get back up. others, like dead hard, sprint burst etc. are seen a problems but can be dealt with by offerings like the solvent jug, an offering for the clown to directly stop these perks, but that is too specific. again, it comes down to the person in terms of what they hate. personally, for me its the perk combos and cockiness / toxicity of survivors that is the most off putting of this game.
now onto what. the what section for survivors is simple: what to killers hate survivors bringing into a match in terms of burns / items. this is usually a toolbox with brand new part for example, or a flashlight used to click spam, or the most controversial is a key, because from the killers perspective it means that if someone brings a key and finds the hatch, off they go along with anyone else with them. in terms of burning offerings, the only ones that ive seen killers hate are when people burn certain map tokens (more on this later). for what survivors hate, again it varies. the main one is Mori, which the ebony one allows killers to completely kill a survivor after being on a hook once. i personally never used one, but i can see why they get annoyed at this. other than that, its varied: usually addons that hinder the perks they bring, or a map offering that suits the killer (say, a killer who wants a small map, burning a map token for a small map).
finally, we have the where. maps are mainly complained about by both sides, either for being far too big for some killers, or far too small, or being built for a handful of killers. take the deathsliger map, and the saloon. the generator on the top of the saloon, where the deathslinger can get a clear shot, nurse can blink up, clown can throw a bottle, huntress can throw an axe, etc.other killers instead need to do the long walk up the saloon to get to the generator, only being able to shave off a couple of seconds by the breakable door. for survivors, smaller maps have seen to be more of a complaint because its, well, smaller, meaning the killer can spend less time going between generators. however, there is the farm maps (and to an extent, the yamaoka estate): killers hate people who burn these maps because of the low visibility (damn you corn!), the sizes of the map, any annoying loops etc. not to say that killers cant play these maps, its just hard as ever to follow someone through the corn without looking directly at the ground for the scratchmarks.
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I’d say most stuff is balanced. Take an average game of average survivors vs an average killer and there won’t be many glaring issues.
The problem is that there’s such a huge gulf between the strongest stuff and the weakest stuff, and there are still quite a lot of balance outliers. Compare Iri Head Huntress to a Wraith with no add ons, for example - one is much much stronger than the other. Or look at how unbalanced Ormond is. Ebony moris are another big one.
And on the survivor side I’d say the biggest imbalance is their ability to stack stuff. One BNP is no big deal, but if the survivors bring four of them and split up on gens it’s kind of ridiculous the impact they have. Same with keys - one guy using a key to get out is whatever, but having three survivors escape at one gen is stupid.
I do think the devs are doing a pretty good job (lul) with this though, to be fair. The stronger killers are getting toned down and the weaker killers are getting buffed. Busted stuff gets reworked. They know maps can be an issue. The worst stuff gets removed over time.
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OoO is definitely gamebreaking if you're playing Trapper or Hag.
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Survivor main detected.
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The size of some maps. And the dead zones you can get are the main balance issues in my mind.
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Rather than going into each thing that is unbalanced, because there is a lot of things tbh, I will say that DBD has balance issues because the game is not balanced, or designed around high skill level play. If you play the game at a decent level on both sides and can understand the game on a higher level, like maximizing loop potential and things like that, it is easy to see the issues without being bias. To me the game feels like it is balanced around average people. I consider average players to be people that can't loop, and killers that will tunnel people all game. Once people start playing above average skill, especially on survivor, the balance issues start to show.
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You are correct. Everything I said was true though so.....your point?
Oh wait, you don't actually have one, you just like to do the whole "us v them" thing for the sake of being contrary
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Generally speaking, it can be the map setup. This goes for both Killer and Survivor.
Then there´s Killers many people feel are too strong/too weak. Good Examples would be Spirit, Freddy, Clown or Trapper.
Regarding perks, there are a few things to note here. I think DS/UB combo is too strong, as are stacked 2nd chance perks in general.
I think Noed is too strong - check out Otz´s Noed facecamp experiment. It enables a lazy playstyle than still renders good results, I don´t like it.
The worst offender in my opinion is Object of Obsession. It´s bad when solo survivors use it and it´s the strongest perk in the game in a SWF, no doubt about it.
Which brings me to the last thing I think is unbalanced: SWF. Don´t get me wrong, I´m all in favor of the feature but I also strongly believe it needs tweaking of some sorts as comms give survivors like what...6 additional info perks so they can fully commit to stack chase/2nd chance perks. It´s been discussed forever but I haven´t seen a good suggestion that doesn´t involve removing some of the fun aspect for survivors. It´s tough.
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I think it's balanced overall as well. It's like I said in the OP, I seem to see a lot of people who have no idea how to look around themselves and see map RNG. lmao
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Anything without legitimate counter play. Ds and unbreakable. There is nothing you can do, you either make them waste it, or let them have free run for 60 seconds.
Dead hard for distance, there is absolutely nothing you can do, but let them reach the pallet and start the chase over.
Mori camping, nothing you can do about it.
Strider spirit to a degree. Nurse to a degree as well, but it takes actual skill to get that good.
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SWF
-Game wasn't originally balanced with communication between the survivors in mind. Hence why we have perks to see auras and #########. The devs never rebalanced the game for SWF when they added it.
Maps
-Sizes. Some maps are just unfeasible for some killers to walk across and find a survivor without a gen or two going off.
-Tile placements. Some maps, like Ormond and Haddonfield, can have absolutely terrible placement of tiles that makes it incredibly hard to catch survivors.
-######### corn.
Perks
-Some perks are too strong. It's been a stale meta for years and the devs are scared of altering it too much(except for destroying Ruin).
-90% of the perks are absolutely terrible with no reason to use. The devs have said they're looking at some perks to change but that was a long time ago.
Killer viability.
-Some killers are way stronger than the rest. Others, way weaker than the rest. This creates an inbalance where you're seeing the same killers over and over again, especially as you climb in ranks.
Keys and Moris
-Everybody hates them
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My point is that everything you said showed your bias as a survivor main.
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DS and Unbreakable you just slug to counter btw, if you didn't know. For Dead Hard you just wait for them to blow it then M1. lmao. For Mori, you just don't get hooked. Strider don't get hit.
Like, all of these have reasonable counter play my man. Just because it's not how you want to play doesn't mean it's not counter play.
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I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Slugging is the counter to ds, unbreakable is the counter to slugging. Zero counter play for killer. I already explained how dh has no counter.
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You literally just explained the counter thing I explained while you were also saying I was trolling, while saying the same thing.
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