Chapters are being treated as Seasons
Dlc chapters and paragraphs, unlike their original conception, are now being treated as seasons and carry all the capitalism that that brings with it.
While everyone might say, "yeah, duh, what's the point in telling us something we already know?", I wanted to point out how this has changed from how chapters such as The Last Breath dlc and the Halloween dlc changed the game. Right now, new content is being churned out so regularly and quickly that little thought is being given to anything but what pertains to the next announcement for the public, and that means nothing like a health update is coming any time soon. It also means that player feedback is being exponentially devalued as DbD continues on its feedback-less* plan for the year. I originally bought this game hoping for an atmosphere of tension and heightened awareness that had a community sincerely interested in the horror genre, where updates were meant to continue bringing suspense and atmosphere into the game. I now play the game, disillusioned from the marketing and the past by the current flippant nature of key developers who've spoken out on streams against the intelligence of the playerbase, with the full understanding that this is not horror. Along this journey, I've grown to understand so much more about bad design and good design, corporate driving forces, and the inability for individuals to come across as sentient people in so many different situations. DbD has been an incredible learning experience about what things make a game look ugly and what things successfully delude a populous. Thank you, BHVR for the experience you've given me, and shame on you BHVR for moving DbD so far away from what I love.
*from the playerbase
Edit: I've received valuable and critical feedback from the comments, and I'll update this post soon with much clearer definitions and with more targeted explanations and examples. Thank you for reading.
Comments
-
I honestly don't know what you mean about chapters being "churned out so regularly" these days, I mean the first three chapters (last breath, halloween and of flesh and mud) were all only 2 months apart, last breath came out in august 2016, halloween in october, and of flesh and mud in december. Chapters have steadily slowed down over time.
11 -
The first three chapters didn't nearly come across as regular in release as does the repetition of PTB, midchapter, PTB, new killer/survivor, etc. I'm not saying there was no schedule (because there was), but it seemed like the devs were less worried about being so rigid on the actual releases (eg. Doctor). More importantly, there have been no new mechanics other than killer powers that provide fresh interactivity on both sides since the release of The Hag and totems. With The Shape, it was Obsessions, and Huntress is the closest thing we have most recently (introduced the general idea of range). Every succeeding killer follows the same formula, just like how most seasons in games are designed, and this appears to have prevented new mechanics from being introduced. All of the obsession perks since the DS rework would have benefited from not piggybacking on the obsession mechanic and having their own mechanic instead (eg. a branding or marking of the sort that temporarily marked a survivor as special).
Time is just one aspect of why I'm making this claim. Patterns and the kind of content released are majorly important to defending it.
0 -
What about when we got Deep Wounds with Legion? or Oblivious with Demogorgon? or Undetectable with Ghostface? Or the end game collapse? Or breakable walls?
4 -
Pyramid head is probably the Killer with the MOST unique mechanics of all of them
0 -
I'll address the so-called "mechanics" individually (and I did forget about kicking generators with Doctor, which is the most recent one), and I'll leave the mechanics that are integral to a killer's power for last, because my point with this claim is that no mechanics available to all killers and survivors have been introduced since The Hag (with Doc's being killer-only but resulting in survivor interaction).
But first, I'll point out why The Hag has the most recent, true "new mechanic".
- Implemented the hex and dull totems; dull totems are present on every map regardless of perks
- survivors have an additional interaction possible in trials with every killer
- Killers who equip hex perks have a new objective to defend (even without hex perks, totems can still be valuable for sound cues and preventing Inner Strengths)
Explanations are below about why candidates for "new mechanics" have been rejected:
STATUS EFFECTS
Undetectable falls under this category. It is The Wraith's stealth idea but put into a status effect form for easy application across all killers. It's nothing new, interactive, or intriguing for the game.
Oblivious falls under this category, and it is not something that is interactive on either side. It's a status effect only applied by killers and serves no other purpose than to attempt to reduce one survivor's gained distance after starting to hear the terror radius (by hiding the terror radius for that one survivor temporarily). It's not that different at all in style from Undetectable. Both of these fail to be new mechanics, with the understanding that new mechanics are being defined as implementations that provide interactivity for both playable sides.
Status effects, as a rule, should not be considered new mechanics due to the way they play into an already existing framework.
EGC
Rather than being a new mechanic, the EGC is simply a timer to prevent excessive match elongation. A simple timer like the EGC doesn't bring new interactivity between killers and survivors or for both sides separately. It limits potential toxicity while shutting down potentially interesting, longer plays by killers and survivors. It's a mere functionality tweak more so than a new mechanic.
BREAKABLE WALLS
They exist to be ignored unless they've been placed so a killer is forced to break them to go around a window. These are pallets that can't be vaulted over and have been thrown down since the start of the match. Survivors aren't given any interaction with the addition, and killers often benefit from ignoring them. Additionally, they are only present on a select few maps (probs will change in future, but it doesn't really matter). Since it does not increase interaction for either side other than what is already present in pallet breaks, it can't be a new mechanic. It is almost classified as a base-game addition (map exclusivity prevents the classification).
PYRAMID HEAD
The Tormented and The Cages are exclusive to Pyramid Head. They cannot be "new mechanics" in the sense used in this post specifically because of that. These two aspects of his power are not available to all killers and do not meaningfully enough give new interactions to survivors (A better example to bring up would be The Pig, who also has the same issue of traps being tied to her power).
DEEP WOUNDS
This status effect (see Status effect section above for comments about status effects) and ensuing mend would almost be a "new mechanic" in the sense defined by this post except for the fact that this status effect is only present when built into a killer's power. While some newer killers utilize the effect, it is not available to all killers (either through perks or otherwise), and the only reason survivors have access to Legion's debuff is because having two bleed out timer in the game (one for BT and presume-ably other survivor perks) and one for The Legion must have seemed too complicated for the devs. As the bleed out timer had already been introduced with Bill (see comments about timers in EGC section above), the Deep Wounds mechanic isn't entirely original or new. Even though it provides a somewhat new interaction for survivors (Mending), it's a functionality tweak on the bleed out timer that only affects certain matches with certain killers some times.
Anything involving a power inherently cannot truly count, and as such, the only two, true new mechanics introduced to the game since launch have been Obsessions and Totems (With Doctor coming in as a solid new mechanic that doesn't completely hit the survivor aspect of the criteria above, so it's an honorary "new mechanic").
1 -
I agree that content is coming out pretty quick. But I mean it is good for the game to have fresh stuff always coming but I think they should skip the full chapter and just perfect what they have optimized it and really digging deep to what they have. It really does feel like building a huge structure with super glue and popsicle sticks then at the top of the structure you start putting like bricks on it. That's the feeling that I get
0 -
@Kind_Lemon so basically new mechanics aren't creative enough unless they're used globally across all killers?
So in your mind, Breakable Walls are new mechanics and truly innovative. But all of Pyramid Head's unique abilities like a new status effect, an alternative way to hook a Survivor and an attack that pierces through walls are uninspired and show the Devs can't come up with new ideas.
K.
0 -
Wow, that is quite a lot of mental gymnastics to make things fit your definitions of what’s a new mechanic and what isn’t. You a politician or a lawyer?
0 -
Youre complaining that theres to much content?
3 -
they are complaining bhvr has to pay their staff and for servers somehow. I mean, I'd also rather see big cosmetic packs instead of single character stuff for example, but yeah...
0 -
My point is here --> .
and your interpretation is here --> .
I haven't said anything about lack of creativity, but I realize my post might be too convoluted, so I've tried to condense it into one paragraph.
The Point in question: The devs have focused on mechanics specific to a killer's power rather than anything that would make the game more interesting for all players. Because Pyramid Head's abilities are unique, they don't actually change anything about the base game for everyone, and that's not a new, base-game, mechanic. It's his power. Sure, it's interesting, but because it's not a base game addition, it's showing how the devs are succumbing to formulaic additions to their game and will not be able to fix major problems like gen efficiency. It's not a "new mechanic" for the players; it's only for Pyramid Head.
I'm not sure how to make that much clearer, so I hope that paragraph gets across. It's a "this is a sign of other things not having any hope of getting fixed" argument.
1 -
??????
I'm criticizing the fact that the devs have shown no interest in improving their base game and each update is not really a way for the devs to improve their game but just tack on more killers to play and perks to get and grind to go through. I haven't said anything about too much content, if anything, there's not enough if someone wants to just play one killer, since all the "new content" is separate from everything else (except maps and offerings). That's why the implementation of kicking gens (with The Doctor) was so influential. The same for The Hag, with Totems, and Michael with Obsessions (if you didn't have an Obsession perk, someone else did, so it affected all applicable matches). Nothing past that has introduced any mechanic we haven't seen before. Breakable Walls? A slight variation on pallets. Deep Wounds? Another bleed out timer. All of the implementations mentioned either solved problems or made the game more fun for everyone. I've not seen a single person say that Deep Wounds is fun for everyone and I've not seen anyone say they enjoy (not find interesting -- enjoy) breakable walls (for their own sake). The EGC tried to solve a problem (and alleviated a few cases of frustration that could also have been solved with a simple concede button), but didn't make the game more fun or interactive for players. That's what I'm saying. Seasons = nothing new that's outside of the killer+survivor+perks+some small adjustment to what players can do in chase. That's it. Updates change things. Seasons don't tend to do that in nearly the same way.
I'm quite happy that the developers have been able to make so much money from cosmetics. I see it as a way of donation (albeit using tactics that prey a little too much on unsuspecting psyches imo); if you want the cosmetic and feel like supporting the devs, buy it!
Edit: parenthetical
0 -
Oblivious, Undetectable, Corrupted. Not sure if Corrupted will be used by other killers or not, time will tell. Cross Play, cross progression on tge horizon, MMR (albeit a work in progress), graphical update, map fixes, god loops gone. I mean i think ive made my point, youre comolaining like theyve done nothing at all. Im all about them skipping a chapter to address the myriad of bugs, but lets not pretend theyre a charity and have dine nothing at all but line their pockets
1 -
You complain about them tacking on more perks to get? yet like totems' inclusion with the hag, tell me what about totems made them 'fun or interactive for players if the killer didnt have Hex perks? The killer gains nothing fun or interactive, theres just some bones around the map now, The survivor gets something interactive but only towards getting some extra bloodpoints and I wouldn't say that the act of cleansing a totem is particularly fun. The interactive and fun parts of totems all come from the perks associated, on the killer side it's the risk reward of having a powerful perk but it can be taken out by survivors, on the survivor side, you can go out of your way to find them for the chance to effectively neuter the killer by removing a perk.
So if all the enjoyment and interactivity of totems comes from perks, why do other new inclusions associated with perks get discounted?
1 -
Totems aren't useful only if there's a hex perk in play. That's the main appeal, but due to the fact that they're present in every match whether there's a hex perk or not means they affect other part of the game, if only slightly.
Totems
The interactivity of dull totems
Dull totems are an underappreciated and often overlooked part of the DbD experience. Other than the lore aspect of them (which I won't mention except to say, "Isn't that red thing a price tag? It sure looks like one, and if it is, where are all these killers buying these totems? Do they have to buy new ones for every match since survivors keep breaking them? Is there a store somewhere?If so, how do they pay? In sacrifices? In emotions?" BUT MOVING ON), dull totems are a constant presence in every match, one that every new player has experienced and thought, "What is that?", walked over to it, cleansed it, and became confused until looking it up after the trial was over. Because it's an interact-able that has no prerequisites, it can cause a number of "emergent" results (look up emergent gameplay on your own). The following list is taking all survivors into consideration but placing less importance on those only playing the game for highest efficiency.
- Totems are an attraction away from generators. Adding another POI on the map for all survivors changed the overall survivor-generator interaction in whatever small manner it did.
- Totems were well integrated into other existing mechanics that didn't already have a spot for it. Small Game's functionality changed to be not only useful for detecting traps, modifying its importance in the game in however small manner it did. All auras that would track a killer's belongings included the totem's aura (cough and this didn't happen with Pyramid's Trails bc why? cough), and this affected the map's usage.
- Dull totem cleansing can alert killers of a nearby survivor's presence, which is often a large giveaway and can result in an additional survivor in the dying state in several scenarios. i.e. it's a survivor-locator dependent on survivor actions
- Cleansed dull totems can alert killers of survivor spawn locations and encourage killers to search harder in an thought-to-be-empty area to find that one, evasive survivor.
- Totems are considered intensely when implementing new killers and perks (along with the regressing mechanic and the Obsession mechanic). No other recent implementations (other than the use of status effects, and including a new status effect is not the inclusion of a new mechanic) are used for anything else but their one-and-done implementation. Breakable Walls are thrown in with pallets when any thought is given to the obstacles killers kick.
While some of these points may appear in some form or another with other, more recent additions, it is largely the number and combination that raises totems above the rest. However, the existence of the last item in the list (#5) is just as important if not more than the number and combination of preceding items.
If totems had been introduced today instead of before now (removing all post-introduced totem related perks from this hypothetical), I am 95% certain that dull totems would not exist and hex totems would be the only ones to appear in trials. That would have earned itself an almost-spot in the category I'm now calling "B mechanics". Dull totems are critical in filling out the totem's place in DbD.
I would love to see that the developers are doing things to their base game that are new mechanics ("B mechanics"), but I haven't seen that yet and no one has shown me otherwise.
0 -
You're right. My definitions are a mess.
Update to the topic: New mechanics that make the base game more fun and interactive for everyone are now called "B mechanics". Mechanics that are either nothing new or exist solely for one killer are "C mechanics" and "D mechanics".
So, my point is that the lack of "B mechanics" due to seasons and not updates to game mechanics means the devs will never fix the major problems in their game because perks are not actual solutions to base game problems.
0 -
Ah, I forgot to say that I'm not against the addition of perks. I largely disagree with their recent perk design, but that's a topic for another day.
Here's a post where I talk about what should be done to perks (and start from the third paragraph):
Edit: Hopefully these replies helped 😊
0 -
From my second comment:
"STATUS EFFECTS
Undetectable falls under this category. It is The Wraith's stealth idea but put into a status effect form for easy application across all killers. It's nothing new, interactive, or intriguing for the game.
Oblivious falls under this category, and it is not something that is interactive on either side. It's a status effect only applied by killers and serves no other purpose than to attempt to reduce one survivor's gained distance after starting to hear the terror radius (by hiding the terror radius for that one survivor temporarily). It's not that different at all in style from Undetectable. Both of these fail to be new mechanics, with the understanding that new mechanics are being defined as implementations that provide interactivity for both playable sides.
Status effects, as a rule, should not be considered new mechanics due to the way they play into an already existing framework."
You made me pause for a second when thinking about the entity-blocking-generator thing. I think it's probably not really a good example of a "B mechanic", and this is only because it's kind of like a status effect for generators (no killer interaction induces it specifically; perks are mediators), but it might count? Still, my hesitation is probably indicative of something I'm not seeing with the effect, and I think it's because the only thing it does is block a generator (VFX are fluff and kind of break immersion imo), preventing interaction rather than facilitating interaction, which is a key difference. I'll get back to you if my position changes.
0 -
When i said corrupted I was talking about tge effect PH applies.
Both oblivious and undetectable 100% engage both sides. If youre not paying closer attention to your surroundings youre doing it wrong. It also is irrelevant to my main point, youre complaining that theyre making money while:
They have improved the game in a lot of ways that I listed. And theres nothing wrong with them making money while doing so. Im not saying theyre perfect, we both know they arent and sometimes I wonder where their priorities are, but its not fair to say theyve done nothing
1 -
ah, my bad. That wasn't really meant to be a comment about their money-making plans (though I guess it ended up being one? in a very vague sense?). It was just one about design philosophy and the methods behind upkeeping a live game.
Undetectable and Oblivious definitely don't increase interactivity. Survivors already mainly use their eyes for detecting a killer. Survivors are merely assisted by audio on nearly all maps. But your point is starting to make less sense to me, because by removing one sensory organ from the equation, doesn't that decrease interactivity and immersion in the game? It's not like you can effectively look harder when you're looking for the first sign of the killer anyway (because again, sound is usually the second warning of a killer. Quick note: streamers are a completely different beast, and the game shouldn't be balanced around their attention because they tend to pay less attention to the game). *
Didn't realize you meant tormented there. Tormented is 99% likely not to appear with any other killer because of how the effect is a major part of Pyramid Head's power. If other killers could apply the effect and send survivors to cages, it would be a new mechanic, but since the design of the cages, the trails, and Pyramid Head's ranged attack are all reminiscent of one another, it's nigh impossible that they'll be separated. I have to consider Tormented as only a part of his power until proven otherwise.
*okay, side note: I think it would be really cool to have a killer that you can only sense via audio and the killer can only sense you via audio (Spirit rework?).
0 -
It has the opposite effect on me, and im sure Im not alone. Of course im looking around while doing gens (thats 101), but when i know the killer has something that makes them undectable im much more focused on it than normal.
1 -
I guess that's true? I mean, I totally understand it, I just don't think "The Wraith effect" should really be labeled a new mechanic in any meaningful fashion. When I'm against a Mirror Myers, I tend to fling my mouse around when on a generator back and forth to avoid being grabbed lol. That's about the only time my senses are heightened because of a lack of terror radius, and that was true before both of the aforementioned status effects were implemented. With Pig and Ghostface, I just position my camera slightly differently (for best Ghostface reveal spot) and resign myself to getting hit if I'm in a non-open space.
1 -
They've literally been rolling out a huge graphics update that's so important they didn't even make a map for the upcoming chapter (they literally reworked SEVEN maps in one patch). They just added crossplay. They're working on upgrading to better servers and tinkering with hit validation. They're fine tuning an MMR system that will eventually be better than ranks. AND they've been slowly addressing the generator speed by reworking ruin, lowering the speed of survivors working together and reworking toolboxes. PLUS they've announced plans to implement a "startup phase" into the gameplay like reverse endgame collapse, which should help with early game gen rushing.
The Devs are being anything but formulaic at this point. They're cranking out more massive changes than we've had in the past couple years. Giving us a massive stream of cosmetics and lore. And still maintaining a somewhat regular schedule for Killers and Survivors. Something tells me they've been beefing up the DBD team at Behavior and it really shows
0 -
While I can agree on universal mechanics not coming in often, I have to argue that a new killer IS a new mechanic.
With PH release (easy example since newest) killers who play this killer have to know good spots on where to leave trails, know when to use their cage, how to make perk builds valuable with the killer, and how to use his ranged attack. Survivors need to learn audio queues to know the killer, audio queues on when he does something, how to avoid his trails, and how to avoid his range attack.
Each killer brings a unique experience that a survivor and killer player must learn. I cant treat a PH like a legion as a survivor, much like how I cant play billy like I play PH.
Also you cant tell me dull totems with no hex is a better gameplay mechanic than what a killer brings.
0 -
I kinda misread you, I apologise.
The issue is a bit with the community:
The devs try something new, a handful of very loud people will say its bad until everyone joins the chorus and the idea is scrapped.
Same when the community suggests something new or provides constructive criticism. Often time this handful only echoes what the big streamers say, without looking into things themselves.
Like, I recently made a thread about how one could overhaul skills, perks, charms to make the game a tad more strategical and matchmaking thus easier. (check it out and tell me what you think)
Only feedback I received was complaining that it 'would make it a complete new game and is thus bad'.
And that's the general tone.
Like, breakable walls would be cooler if they'd break faster, AND hide the red stain adding a genuine surprise moment. But then people would complain how unfair that is.
Someone suggested adding in a means to know how many totems still stand, and people complained that that was unfair (if it required to check out a bunch of candles on the map) while at the same time advocating that IF it's put in it should only be visible for survivors on the UI... (because that's totally fair)
Or making the game more accessible: I've seen suggestions to bring in the visual indicators for heartbeat etc from the mobile game, and add a colorblind mode that changes red effects (scratchmarks, auras etc) to a bright blue or someone that allows colorblind people to see the things. Each time this was brought up, you'd have people loudly complain how that would be unfair (for both sides, interestingly), how that would break the games atmosphere, how no one would use it etc.
They'll keep throwing tantrums till people (devs included) drop the idea.
The main issue I see with the community is that a noisy number of them wants their iWin buttons for their preferred side instead of the game improving and being more fun for the majority of players.
0
