Can the survivors defeat the killer?
Obviously the killer cannot be defeated in-game due to game limitations, but from a lore perspective, would the survivors actually be able to defeat the killer? If so, what exactly would happen if they did so?
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Pretty sure the Entity makes that not possible. Otherwise, survivors like David would be able to sweep the floor with any member from Legion.
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On top of their abilities all killers are gifted strength and durability that way they can lift up survivors and take multiple pallet stubs and drop form falls with no stagger.
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Yeah but the blight captured and edpiremented on all the killers before he turned into a killer himself and that was one guy so I think they could do it.
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one guy who probably was helped by the entity for its own twisted ends...
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Blight was able to restrain and experiment on some killers so I'd say its possible.
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Blight was able to do it whilst abusing the serum. It gave him superpowers and given how the entity works this might have already been planned to set him on his way to becoming a killer.
Apart from those very special circumstances they can´t unless the entity chooses to allow it. In its realm, the entity controls every possibility.
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Does it? It doesn't seem like some stuff killers do is going with its plans (see Michael, PH, etc.)
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Talbot kidnapped and experimented on killers long before he became an addict for the serum. Injecting himself was a last ditch effort at escape after his rat bite became infected and dangerous.
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In principle yes, the Alchemist was able to do so before becoming the blight. However doing so is very difficult, just being good in a fight like David isn't going to cut it.
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Ashley would kill every killer OUTSIDE the entity's realm. So I guess maybe? I mean everyone could fight killers like the legion.
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Yeah, Entity really backed the wrong horse on this one.
If it knew better, Ash would be its killer with two chain saws...
... and four scrawny nerds named Frank, Julie, Joey and Susie would be the survivors. :)
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It depends on if the entity is strengthening them or not. If it is, no. Not possible. If not though, all purely magical killers would be taken out, and so would legion, ghostface, and slinger. Other killers, however, like huntress, Michael, pyramid head, demogorgon, trapper, and billy would completely annihilate anyone who fought them.
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I dunno Leatherface is just a weird looking dude with a chainsaw. Michael has been killed multiple times in the movies so supernatural something's up with him. Legion and Pig you could probably just punch a few times and be done with it. Freddy's a dream demon.
Maybe some... others not so much.
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He didn’t need to be addicted to gain the benefits of the serum, that is how he barely was able to defeat the Trapper. In my opinion, without superhuman abilities or weapons, I don’t think that any survivor, no matter how badass they are, could take a Killer, even in a group. Even the Alchemist, if he faced the killers in a trial, I believe would have lost in an environment more suited to the killer’s favors.
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Wait when did he ever "defeat" the Trapper? He kidnapped pretty much every single killer and lived to tell the tale, there was no "fight", survivor Talbot would've lost against every killer if that was the case. All of this well before he ever touches the needle to his arm.
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22 October - Wounded
I'm hiding in a dense strip of forest. I'm desperate to erase the distressful images engraved in my mind. Last night, a disfigured man barged into the laboratory with a gruesome, mechanical mouth and shred the walls into splinters. I barely escaped with my life—and wounded my arm in the process. I have no options left; these monsters find me no matter where I go. All I have is a journal filled with obscure promises of escape. I will return to the laboratory.
23 October - Experiment
I'm close to death, I can feel it. When I returned to the laboratory, I started experimenting with the putrid nectar and distilled it into a foul serum. But I made a terrible mistake. I injected the serum into a dead rodent, whose pupils dilated, and its body shook. I tried to restrain it, but the creature bit into my arm, ripping my wound open. I stopped the bleeding, but I fear the damage is done.
24 October - Experiment II
I awoke to a terrible cry booming from the cellar and a violent bout of nausea. Through the vile ordeal, I started to recollect what had happened. Tainted with the foul serum, my wound had swollen with lymph, at which point my assailant returned. Most of our fight was a blur, but I can recall red tears trickling down his gruesome cheeks as I clawed at his face. And some moment later when I kicked him, sending him crashing into a brick wall. The power I felt then… there are no words for it. I now know that there is truth to Vigo's methods. Another cry. My assailant, now chained in the cellar, must be getting restless. This is just the beginning.
He already had taken the serum and slightly mutated before even fighting the Trapper, so he must had taken the other killers (either in a fight, ambush or help with the entity) already hooked to the serum and so with its powers.
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literally anyone cold sweep the floor with legion
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So technically, the answer is yes, but only if the survivor can convince the entity and/or is already being influenced by the entity.
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I never thought that the metal mouthed person was Trapper, I assumed it was Doc because of the "metal mouth" and the reference to him in "The Hunger". Even then, the journal entries after the fight and Talbot's first dosage of serum lead to his eventual demise in the Void, well after he actually kidnapped the killers, well before he injected himself.
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He was already suffering the effects of the serum thanks to the bite of the rat. He even mentions the power that allowed him take out the trapper (which he barely manages to escape without the power of the serum) and latter, he starts injecting himself with it before falling to the Void or even kidnapping others killers. Yes it is trapper, not just because it is confirmed in the blight cutscenes, but the description of the Trapper fits how Benedict mentions him:
There is a vast monster of a man with a hideous grin torn across the mask that keeps stalking my every move. Similar to a hunter, he tracks us, priming devastating traps amongst the greenery. Extreme vigilance and a light step is essential in avoiding the blood-curdling clench of a bear trap or the clutches of what I've taken to calling "The Miserable Smiling Killer". I have but many times managed to get caught in one of these traps. I have nothing but a fear for the feeling of blunt trap spikes grinding against my bones or for the heavy and deliberate footsteps which always inevitably reveal a plastered, sadistic grin. With the traps and the Trapper, it has so far been a constant battle between looking up and looking down.
And the wounds that the killer suffered also fit the blight outfit of the trapper, like his mask and face:
Most of our fight was a blur, but I can recall red tears trickling down his gruesome cheeks as I clawed at his face.
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The Trapper wears a mask made out of bone, a hard material that would be impossible to claw at to cause bloody tears trickling down it, and the mask is made from bone not metal or to quote directly from the journal entries, "a mechanical mouth". The only killer we have in game that fits this description is Doc. Using Baker's entry on Trapper, it becomes apparent that the Trapper's main motif is the grin, not a mechanical mouth. Plus, my point about Talbot not injecting himself until way after is still valid, the rat bite was a small taste of the serum as opposed to a full on injection as a last ditch effort. Plus, each entry is labelled with the date. You really think he had time in between being hunted by Doc or whoever it was to experiment on basically every single killer and contain them in the span of one week? Let alone the fact it wasn't mentioned at all in the entries? You'd think that would be important enough to include in an entry.
So we have two possibilities here:
*It was Trapper that Talbot got into a fight with and the Devs did an awful job describing him, not using his main physical trait, but that means Talbot experimented on the other killers well before this fight since it would be impossible otherwise, as shown by Talbot losing his captive and then injecting himself in a total of 4 days.
*It wasn't Trapper but Doc and that was the only Killer he had to actually physically take down using the effects of the serum through the rat bite, which still puts every killer well before Doc and before Talbot's first dosage of serum through the rat bite.
If anything, Talbot's lore could use some extra padding since we know for certain he experimented on all the killers with the serum, but the timeline for it is still wack since it definitely cannot be after he gets voided since we have that entire timeline mapped out already thanks to "The Hunger" and "Doors Unknown".
God for all we know, Talbot has been injecting serum into killers for years now... But we won't know for certain until the Devs add more lore.
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A normal human couldn’t also defeat a giant killer that no-sells bear traps and destroys wooden pallets with a kick, but a human with the power of the serum, like Talbot literally says that he has, did it, so it stands to reason that he could also do that to flesh and a mask made of bone. Yes, he only had a taste of the serum, but it is clear that was enough to give him power, as he mentions. Doc doesn’t have a mechanical mouth, he has a normall mouth that is being forced to be open with metal stuff, but is still a mouth with normal teeth and lips. Trapper is the one that has the closest to a mechanical mouth due to the “smile” on his mask.
Sorry, but you have to refute a lot of proof to argue that Trapper wasn’t the one that was experimented, given all of the evidence that I have show you:
-His mask and his face present the wounds mentioned in the story (no other initial blight killer shows this).
-He is the one that is shown in the blight cutscenes, the ones that shows what was happening in that first period of the Blight.
-His descriptions still fits the most out of all the initial blight killers.
I didn’t say that Talbot experimented on the killers all in the first halloween blight, he clearly had a lot of time to do that before being put into the Void.
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My resoning is deep down they don't want to or can't. The Enity makes it a point to choose people who are, or have the capacity to be addicted to being hunted.
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I can see why you're adamant about this but I honestly can't fathom why the Devs would write their main character, their poster-boy for the game, as having a mechanical mouth when in literally every other instance of the Trapper, he's described as having a grin of some kind. Plus, I don't see at all what you're saying about the face scratches, all I see is a super cracked mask like someone dropped it and it split open at the seams, while there's serum gushing from the eyes, not the cheeks. Trapper being in the animatic can also be justified as BHVR highlighting the event with their favorite character. Plus, the dosage that was administered was administered through a rather complex looking mechanism, something I think the devs would write about when mentioning Talbot drugging his captive in Talbot's journal for that day considering he's an Alchemist not an Engineer as shown in his personal lore. Just to further my argument, here's the official description of Trapper's Blight face:
As you can see, there is no reference to a mechanical mouth here, all bone - no metal on the mask at all, but Trapper's key physical trait and recurring motif: his mask's grin.
Doc is the same way on his Blighted head cosmetic, but the detail in his mouth and how mechanical it looks must've been super apparent to Talbot when he first saw him (I'm referencing default Doc's face, not post-Serum). His mouth being forcibly held open with metal in such a grotesque way would definitely stand out more than a "grin", like in Trapper's case but there isn't anything mechanical on Trapper, and makes sense as Talbot's way of describing him in his journal. Plus, the Blighted cosmetic has blatant stitching and scarring down the middle, almost like someone violently tore open the Doc's face in a fight or something... Hmm.
Just to move past that point, I've seen other sources online back these claims up, plus as the coup de grace to all of this; look at what's on the Doc's ankles in his Hallowed Blight cosmetic.
Light up ankle cuffs. No other killer's Blighted cosmetic has these very specific ankle cuffs. Even Hag, who's whole story is based around being help captive with cuffs in the Grim Pantry, doesn't have anything like this. Even Ghostface, who's entire gimmick is based around surveillance footage and tracking people down, doesn't have anything like this. Plus, who's the only killer Talbot remembers when recollecting about doing his experiments. The only one significant enough to him. Doctor.
I rest my case, your honor.
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The doctor has also never referred to have a “mechanical mouth” either, but the Trapper is still the closest for a killer to have an “artificial mouth”. Talbolt designed the serum following the notes on Vigo, so he didn’t need to have a degree to do it; and the mechanism is there in every single blight killer, so that is not proof of anything.
And sorry, the Trapper has a broken mask that was already cut before the transformation and the wounds that you can see are above the eyes, so it is not dropping from there. Is still much more evidence that the Doctor having stitches...in a face that is clearly splitting apart from the transformation and even then, he has only one line.
The doctor has ankles...so? Every killer was chained, in the cinematic you can see the Trapper being chained, so the difference is that the Trapper just took it out while the Doctor didn’t do it. Hell, the ankles are really more proof of the opposite, because it is noted that they are electric ankles, something way more complicated than chains or the mechanism:
If the Killer was the Doctor, Talbot would have mentioned his electricity or the fact that he is clearly wearing a doctor outfit. In fact, when he is in the Void, with barely any memories, Talbot mentions experimenting with the Doctor (at this point he already had experimented on the killers, so is not proof that the Doctor was the first) and how the killer experimented with others:
Memory 1746
He moves through the death and decay of the void. He doesn't remember his name. Everything's a blur. He feels pain in his stomach. In his arms. In his veins. He needs… he needs to find one of those… flowers… the nectar… the sweet serum that gives… strength. Strength for what? He remembers… the killers… experimenting on them. Why? Why was he experimenting on them? He doesn't… remember. He caused a lot of suffering, but he doesn't feel remorse. He doesn't even know if he should feel remorse. He doesn't feel anything but an ache in the pit of his stomach for power.
Memory 1747
He has flashes of The Doctor. His screams. His agony. Turning the tables on him. Experimenting on him like he had done with so many others. Where? Not here. Somewhere else. Another world.
So if he knew about the Doctor as his time as a survivor, he would have identified him if he was the mechanical mouth killer. Another proof? In the first encounter, the killer wounded his arm and we don’t have a proper description of the wound, but given that it mentions that the rat “ripped my wound open” and bleeding, it seems that it was something caused not by a blunt weapon, like the stick of the Doctor, but more like a slash from a slashing weapon, like a machete. And yes, the doctor has spikes on his stick, but the real damage would still be blunt.
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The doctor has also never referred to have a “mechanical mouth” either, but the Trapper is still the closest for a killer to have an “artificial mouth”.
I'm gonna have to disagree entirely with this simply because there is a huge difference between a mask with jagged teeth and a mouth with mechanical parts in it. You wouldn't describe this as anything even remotely mechanical.
And while Doc isn't mentioned as having a mechanical mouth anywhere else, you seriously would have to be blind to say that this doesn't look more mechanical than Trapper's above.
Plus upon closer examination of the Blighted Trapper face, I see no evidence of any fight. And if anyone were to have a more "gruesome" face, it would be Doc, not Trapper.
To turn one of your last points on its head; if Talbot was capable of identifying Doc by name from his time as a survivor, he should be able to do so for Trapper, since that's what Killer names are: nicknames from Survivors to identify them. If Trapper busted into my room, tore the place up, and came for me, my first thought would definitely not be "Oh god, what is that mechanical mouthed thing causing a ruckus?!" It would probably be something more like "Oh god, what the hell is that smiling freak doing to my place?!" Plus, it can't be excused as Talbot being an unreliable narrator because this is well after his opium addiction and before his serum addiction.
The type of wound also can't be discerned from the detail that the rat bite ripped it open, a rat bite can definitely open up a spiked penetration type wound that the Doctor would inflict with his weapon, blunt or not. Swinging Doc's weapon and landing into a person's arm would not be a clean removal, it definitely could tear flesh out when the Doctor pulled it back. So I'd consider that a relatively moot point.
I'm gonna be real with you, I think there's a pretty decent chance that the killer who broke into Talbot's lab was neither Doc or Trapper and is potentially someone we could be seeing down the line. Neither Trapper or Doc are disfigured enough physically to make you remember that detail specifically. Someone like Billy or Hag, yeah, they're disfigured, but not the former two. Your point about the lack of electricity being mentioned is a good point but you have to admit that the evidence laid out is plentiful for both sides and the refutations for both are just as plentiful. Until we get a Dev to chime in and say something, I highly doubt we'll get anywhere. Worth a shot though.
@not_Queen, who did Talbot interact with on the night of October 22nd and the 24th? Trapper? Doctor? Someone else with a distinct mechanical mouth? We need answers.
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Find a pillow... throw into chainsaw. dead chainsaw.
Leatherface is just some schmuck in a mask. Survivors should be able to take him down once the chainsaw is out of the way.
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they can kill the survivors if they have good weapons and if they have enough pallets then they can give them brain damage to the killers.
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