Hexi tournament a huge proof that survivors are op?
The final matches , killers got 4 or 6 hook and always survivors could escape, just ortz can do it well .. but even he got genrush, 3 minutes 4 gens?????!!!?? Really?????!!!! So we need to play 5000 hours as ortz to be a good killer? And survivor you can play with 1 hand!!!!
I hope Devs could watch it...
Good tournament 👍
Comments
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This is at high-tiers of play, where it's a commonly-known fact that killers are too weak (in those ranks)
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DBD Tournaments should not be taken serious at all. DBD is no tournament game.
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Everyone already knows that survivors are overpowered at high levels of play.
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”Survivor you can play with one hand”? You’re not talking about teams of random players here, all of the people in this tournament have thousands of hours and are playing in coordinated 4 man SWFs that are sweating to score as many points as possible so they can win. The top scoring teams all play together a lot and do competitive play together as well.
Survivor teams like Oracle are as representative of average survivor teams as Otz is representative of average killer players.
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It goes to show that a lot of killers are overrated. PyramidHead got wrecked mostly, "but but OP!!1" yeah right.
Spirit also isn't the unstoppable force some people make her out to be. Performance overrall was underwhelming. Sure she was limited to brown add ons due to a sound bug on her footsteps but survivors had perk and add on resrictions too.
Nurse is still by far the strongest killer in the game....in the right hands. Some people will try to convince you that she's now bottom tier lol
Funny to see the DS + Deliverance combo grant free escapes. In fact most of the "no counterplay" was on the survivor side, but it's ok because only killers should have counterplay.
Survivors did seem like the powerrole against anyone but Nurse but then you remember this is 4 people on comms.
swf -> killer -> solo
Thats how everyone assumes the balance is and it seems to be correct.
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^
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I really hope they buff solos to SWF level, and then buff killers. Not in the way of perks, but in the way of game mechanics.
Otherwise this game will never be balanced. SWF still dominates, and solos still suffers.
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There are plenty of good players on both sides who didn't even enter the tourney, but everyone knows gen times make survivors the power role you have to either have a perfect game or catch them in alot of mistakes to capitalize on the best squads
Now I'm not the best killer in the world but a few years back I played against marths depip squad about 4 times in a 3 month span and actually 3kd one of the times while getting roll stomped with 1-2k in the others , the 3k I got was with my nurse and the other times I played billy, hag, and doctor. Even though I got wrecked the other times I still hold it proud that my nurse beat them even just once , it's totally possible to beat even the best with them making mistakes and you having a S/A tier killer but the reason this game isn't a real tournament type game and never will be is that you're relying on someone else's mistakes and only like 4 killers on the roster can consistently capitalize on those mistakes
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Those tournament Survivors are
No, but seriously. There is a very small chance to get those Survivors in casual Matches, so it's not really realistic to say that Survivors are op if they are so rare in casual Games.
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How is playing in a 4-man sweat squad and winning every single match without much of a challenge fun? I don't get it. I'd just play a different game if that's all I did
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Good survivors being rare doesn’t make them less Op. Every game is balanced around the best players, but for some reason, people think DBD is the special case that should be balanced around people who don’t know how to play the game.
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If survivors stomp in high ranks shouldn't that be accounted for in balancing? I'm betting survivor survival in high rank games is probably around 70 percent.
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I regularly see survivors with more gametime than many of these tourney players. Granted playtime isn't everything but after 3,000 - 7,000 hours no matter what you started out as you get damn good at the game.
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Keep in mind that perks were banned so survivors were not at full strength.
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Yes, a coordinated good team is OP, imagine if they let all 4 using DS, that would be a massacre.
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Maybe there should be a system that balances depending on your skill so it's fair for everyone instead of one side having the odds in their favor every game.
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Anyone who draws any conclusions from this tournament really needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
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For that to work there would have to be a working matchmaking system that can actually predict skill levels and put those players all in the same lobby.
And the million dollar question is how do you predict that in a casual game that isn't very skillful to begin with. Not saying there isn't some skill in this game, just that dbd is more about knowing what and when to do things because the execution of said thing is bare bones basic.
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At that level of play in that environment, yes, survivors are absurdly strong. I've played against Oracle before in tournaments. I can tell you teams like Oracle and Agony are the top 1% of the top 1%. The only killers capable of even threatening them with a 2k are Nurse/Spirit/Hag.
But I caution against drawing too many conclusions from it. The maps are designed for the survivors to win nearly every tile if they run it right, and the resource count is tuned around rank 13 solo queue. Most solo queue survivors can't run any tile correctly without being hit, let alone every single one like every survivor on some of these teams. It's not the norm, and the game isn't designed with them in mind.
It's also why the competitive scene is begging BHVR for map seeds, so we can balance the maps for what we do and they don't have to touch them in live.
Post edited by edgarpoop on2 -
I get matches like this on EU servers every day, nothing special about it?
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this game will never be balanced. they will never buff solo.
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the game may not be competitive since is not, still doesnt mean we shouldnt adress the situation of survivors being overpowered.
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Yeah but even those good Survivors are manageable. SWF Bully Squads with Object, Sprint Burst, Decisive and Unbreakable and good Med Kit's with Styptic's and Syringes (maybe a key). That's rare and it's not logical to include this kind of stuff into actual balance since it's like 0.5 % of the Player Base. You run into this bs in 1 out of 25 or 30 Matches, if not rarer.
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I find that the bully squads die more from over alturism
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Seeing Spirit get crapped on again and again, even "teh best spirit in teh world aaron!1"
I told y'all ages ago she's not as godlike as people make out. The real strength of 4 people on comms is spreading out the gens, Spirit and most killers simply can't deal with that. That's why I don't find it surprising that the one Billy we saw had a much better performance. He can patrol the map and the instadown saves so much time per chase.
Its why swf is so powerful in the game too. You don't need to be tournament level just to decide to rush the middle gens and leave the final few gens spread out.
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dbd is no tournament game.
you cant pull out one group of specific matches and say oMG SuRvIVoRs oP, there are way too many variables that go into dbd matches especially at high level play. you cant say there was nothing they could do, because there are LITERALLY MILLIONS of outcomes of a dbd match based heavily on a players decicions early game and RNG
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Sorry but I gotta be that guy, I put nurse in low tier for the same.reason archers in ancient military were nowhere near as plentiful as media makes it seem.
Nurse is stupid powerful if you dont make mistakes and dont have bugs, but she does and people do. A mistake on nurse, almost more than any other character can completely throw a game. While she is certainly high tier if you can master her, the vast majority of people find her unplayable and THAT is why i put her at low tier.
Kinda like prerework Urgot in league of legends, stupidly broken and strong if you knew how to use him, but if you didnt he was garbage.
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Otzdarva beat a tourney squad as wraith with PWYF. WRAITH OP PLEASE NURF!
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i find it amusing that people like to bring this up and the only difference between these elite survivors and regular red rank survivors is that these elite survivors know how to run killers.
You don't need to know how to run killers to in order to dumpster on a killer. Start of match, split up, do gen, killer finds you, press w and shift. This will get you to rank 1 survivor and keep you at that rank, you will win more games than lose even solo.
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I heard the killers were tunneling every match and still getting at least 1-2 kills each. That's under the most extreme genrush with coordination and survivors knowing every loop. Now, take away all of that, and it be four survivors trying to enjoy a casual match playing the game "properly" as it was originally intended. The devs need to change the description of their game if they continue balancing for this kind of gameplay.
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That's not how it works. There's a skillcap but she's still the most powerful.
@2ndBusiestmusicnerd You forgot to add the all seeing add on vs survivors that weren't healing on a small map.
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The devs don't balance around the top end. They balance around the low end, because in their eyes, they see DbD as 'casual.' Which may hold water, IF you weren't pitting two sides against each other.
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Even with the all seeing and windstorm add-ons, tournament survivors should never lose against a wraith.
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I’ll just copy and paste your comment cuz it’s in everyone’s minds rn.
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Tbh the point scoring system was horrible, survivors can just get a few point lead and just kill the self on hook
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They used to see it as casual and said that it shouldn't be viewed as competitive.
However, they changed stance not long ago and said it's competitive. Which I find preposterous.
The Yui in that team made my brain hurt. She basically gave two free downs after the restart.
First she has shack pallet and somehow she drifted away gifting a free bodyblock.
Then she camps the back window upstairs. She's on the safest spot on the maps where she can see the killer coming from a mile on one side and where the window protects her on the other. Then as Otz starts uncloaking she insta vaults in the blind into a Wraith who has DIRECTIONAL bell sound.
Some of these teams were very good, but some others would be smashed even in pubs.
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And yet there is a tournament scene. Entertaining to watch, hope we get more of it in the future.
So all the circlejerk of "spirit/ph no counterplay" gang can go watch and learn on how to play.
The tournament shows without a doubt that survivor is the power role, no matter how you twist and turn.
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Okay then? Let's remove SWF for ranked and only allow it in private matches then.
With the current matchmaking and queueing system, DBD is definitly competetive, at least at higher ranks. So SWF being op at high ranks is definitly not irrelevant, no matter how many times you try to state that.
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Big Surprise that the game is not very balanced around 4 bad survivor and 4 good survivor thats why a strict matchmaking will never work unless they balance repair speed based on survivor rank + number of members in your swf (kinda repeating myself but well ... ).
Also dont forget that tournament surv couldnt even bring purple addons or 4x ds 4x bt 4x unbreak and the ds they brought also bugged out vs spirit...
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So do Otz and Dowsey prove killers are op? Because if the answer is not and you still believe one tournament proves survivors are op, then you are just biased.
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In my own personal experience your statement is wrong. I strictly play solo survivor so I can’t speak for swf but when I play in any other rank besides red I win probably around 70% of the time. As soon as I get into red ranks that turns around big time. Out of 30 games in a row I played last night the killers 4k’d in 28 of them, the other 2 were 3k with a hatch escape. I escape MAYBE 15% of the time (that’s being generous) in solo red ranks. I particularly don’t like playing in red ranks because I swear I get the sweatiest killers that have 5k worth of hrs and it’s clear my other teammates and I have hundreds of hrs and stand no chance whatsoever. I wished so badly that mmr was going to work out. I have 500 hrs and for some reason getting paired with killers with literally 3k hrs and above consistently. It’s not fun for me and I can’t imagine much fun for them as well feeling like they are going up against baby survs. I love OhTofu but literally had to block him cause I was getting him as killer quite often. The devs NEED to implement something whereas this huge gap in play hrs is not an issue anymore. Until then I will purposely de pip to go back to green and purple ranks where I belong with killers and teammates with similar hrs as me and games are actually fun. Rant over.
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Im sorry but not even fighting games or RTS, probably the two most intense, high skill genres out there balance around the top 1%.
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Lol it’s amazing isn’t it. Killers with 5k hours and you get survivors in the 100-300 hour range.
Then you play killer and all the survivors I’ve seen this week go from 2,600 minimum to over 6,000 hours.
I’m led to believe that it’s an issue with solo queue. Its like aside from streamers most veterans have just ditched solo survivor altogether. Sadly I’ve given up on it too for this very reason. I’m not too bothered about going up against sweat lord killers but the matchmaking needs to give me survivors that are able to deal with that first.
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Where should we draw conclusions from? As someone who plays purple ranked, this game is vastly in survivors favor. I don't need a tournament to tell me that.
Think before you speak please.
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For sure. Comp survivors counterplay Spirit about as well as you can. And this was them struggling against Spirit because she has no footstep audio since the patch. She was nearly banned from the tournament. It was very close. And PH....yeah, I'm not sure what people struggle with against him. His ranged attack is 50/50 at best if you're not AFK. I think Fingerguns even demonstrated that you still have room to dodge if you're at a pallet and PH centers the shot. Same for Freddy. He's not a good killer. Run to a different loop when he snares the current one. And safe pallets are still safe.
It's 100% a solo queue issue. At a certain level of survivor experience it becomes unplayable, so you either get solo babies or a 2k hr minimum SWF. The game really needs separate queues or more diverse ranks. The performance disparity between average solo and experienced SWF is insane. The same killer that 4k'd my team in solo queue will only get 2 hooks against my comp team.
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while i dont think dbd can ever be a good tourmament due to the rng nature of the game and how you have to put rules in for example only 2 DS is allowed for survivors. I take issue how people are dismissing the 1% or the tourmament players and saying we cant balance the game around them but actually you can, alot of games are balanced around the top players and the 1% because the top players shows more of the balancing issue then anyone else.
Take overwatch for example and the introduction to Brigg she literially changed the meta in the overwatch league to the the infamous GOAT meta ( 3 tanks and 3 support) before they had to nerf her and introduced the 222 system to try and balance the game so DPS can be used. Also at the current moment they are in the process of balancing Moria as she is heading to the same way as brig was. If it wasnt for the top players players who know how to fully utlise their powers we would never see any balance changes as mid or lower level players wouldnt showcase the balancing issue that those characters cause.
It is my view that balancing should be focused on balancing for the top of players so it trickles down to the bottom then you get a even playing field not balance it around mid level play that goes for any pvp game regardless of competitve or not if it has a ranking system/ mmr or its a pvp game i strongly believe you balance the top end so it trickles down to the bottom to create a fair field for both sides.
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Have i seen a different tournament? Kill/Escape was overall more then equal. If it proof anything, that the best SWFcan be beaten if the killer is good.
And those survivors you are talking about (also those he beat) also have 5000 hours on survivor so it was equal match.
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"Sure she was limited to brown add-ons due to a sound bug on her footsteps but survivors had perk and add-on restrictions too"
And that right there is reason number 1 why you can't draw any conclusions from tournaments. Yes, players on all sides are probably uncommonly good, but I don't think we should discount tournaments for that reason. You could potentially have uncommonly good players go head to head in the actual game.
Still, the second you're banning perks / add-ons / playstyles, which I've seen in every tournament I've heard about, the tournament is no longer a reflection of balance in DBD.
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Survivors aren't OP. It's just that the game is designed in such a way to encourage 'scummy' play by killers, because they simply aren't rewarded enough for playing 'fair'. I'd say some killers definitely need some buffs, and killers overall need a buff. But Survivors need buffs in some areas too (and nerfs in others, much like killers) And then devs give counters to that scummy play, so survivors only need to run a couple perks to counter it.
I don't think it's as simple as people make it out to be. It's not a simple matter of "Buff Killers!"
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Hahaha a baby survivor, so that 4 players with 5 k hours Vs 1 players with 5 k is equal?????? Hahahaha genrush is broken, all here know it
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