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Is DS really a anti-tunnel perk?
Is DS really a anti-tunnel perk? 97 votes
35 votes
62 votes
Comments
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Yes
Its supposed to be but its often used offensively.. which isn't what the perk was made for.
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No
No, the devs never stated the perk was anti tunnel perk to begin with. This was an idea created by the community. I do agree it should only be an anti tunnel perk instead of 60 seconds of immunity though.
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No
Yeah well that post also says "The trade-off for using Decisive Strike comes at the risk of suddenly becoming the Killer’s latest obsession." where in 99% of cases being the obsession is a massive benefit to survivors.
Also, the direct quotes from Q&As commented under that:
"Horvath: We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed"
So tell me again how the devs never said its purpose was to protect you from being tunneled? And note how they already lowered the duration from internal testing showing the issue people still complain about now.
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Yes
Even though Peanits said it wasn't an anti-tunnel perk, that's functionally how it acts. The condition they slapped on it only works if you're tunneled or if you abuse the 60 second immunity it gives you.
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Yes
Not officialy, but it acts as if it was. So yes and no.
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No
survivors abuse it too much so no it not.
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Yes
I think it works and makes sense as an anti-tunneling perk, but, because there are some situations where tunneling is fair, it has the potential to feel like it's cheating you out of a hook you earned.
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Yes
That's not what "purely" means, it is an anti-tunnel perk, that's just not all it is. See Below.
That's not what he said. Not "purely" does not mean not at all, just not 100%. See below.
Yes official it is, its just not "purely" one. See below, ofiicial post says otherwise.
In their decisive strike redesign they stated "players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed"
It is clearly meant to stop tunneling, that's just not "purely" all its for, just 95% or something. However we don't know what these other supposed uses are. In any case, it's unacceptable in its current form. But anti-tunnel its by fair its main function.
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Yes
I answered yes because that's what its main purpose is. If you mean in practice then no, DS is abused to do much more than stop tunneling, and having no deactivation requirement with how easy it is to activate punished killers for just doing well. So, depends on what you're asking.
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Yes
It was clearly intended to be an anti-tunnel perk there is absolutely no arguing this fact, when the stipulation for the perk to be active is a short window After you've been unhooked that clearly is serving a specific purpose one that simply cannot be misconstrued.
The notion that it's "not an anti-tunnel perk" is absolutely absurd and is only a recent idea that came up purely from the survivor side of the community to prevent it from being reworked with added restrictions (like de-activating when repairing a generator, unhooking another survivor, cleansing a totem, opening a door, entering a locker, etc.).
The post from Peanits has obviously also been misinterpreted, see Scott Jund's response to this popular argument:
"For the most part he is usually pretty sensible, and what he was referring to I think was the original incarnation of Decisive Strike, which as some of you guys might know had no prerequisite. If you get downed you could just get off for free, it was ridiculous... When they made the change however, that it only worked immediately after being unhooked then it became an anti-tunnel perk and you can't really argue with that that's obviously why they changed that there is no reason they would have the prerequisite of having to be on a hook recently if they didn't intend it to be an anti-tunnel perk."
So many amazing and great ideas for Decisive Strike have come up from the community that preserve the strength and integrity of how the perk operates to prevent people from being tunneled but they all HINGE on the idea that Decisive Strike is an anti-tunneling perk to begin with. Which is obviously why people don't want to say out loud it's an anti-tunnel perk even though on a frequent if not near-constant basis "not being tunneled" is among the top reasons cited to use Decisive Strike. Which, how the hell can you use a perk to "not be tunneled" but then not call it an anti-tunneling perk, that's an absolutely ludicrous suggestion and obviously a contradiction within survivor rhetoric.
Even IF someone somehow were able to prove Decisive Strike isn't an anti-tunnel perk, the question can real quickly, easily, and effortlessly be changed to "Should Decisive Strike become an anti-tunnel perk?" and the answer to that is an obvious and resoundingYES. Decisive Strike is one of the few universally complained about and controversial perks ever since it's release, for four years this perk has singlehandedly inspired so much outcry it is incredible that certain vocal individuals have managed to keep a rework from happening. But not for long, especially recently as this conversation and this question is repeated more and more frequently, the pressure is building and the dam is about to break.
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No
People abuse this perk too often, It's gunna get a big fat nerf eventually
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Yes
The problem with DS isnt the 60 seconds. Its the fact that if the killer doesnt tunnel it out the way early, then DS will cause pain in the end game.
If it was to change so it only triggers when there is at least 1 generator remaining, then I think it would be more suited as anti-tunneling.
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No
No it's the opposite, it is a "chase me" perk. You equip it and encourage the killers to tunnel you to waste their time.
What it may or may not have been originally designed for is irrelevant. Even more so now that it has changed from its original inception.
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Yes
These results are going to be so skewed lol, there's people saying yes and no to 2 different questions: Is DS intended to be anti-tunnel? Is DS functionally anti-tunnel?
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oh so how you guys abuse barbecue and chili then once a game. or the fact that you guys know you can just leave us in the ground play somebody else and come right back interesting ...
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If BBQ is a problem for you, then you are a bad player.
Also, what does BBQ have to do with this thread?
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See here's the thing right DS right you hook me walk away right. Hook somebody else then you get barbecue you can go right back to me right now by now like 30 seconds has past so now you're counting from 30 over top of my body then you hook me. It's literally how killers counter it.Or leave on ground method.Even though I don't run it. So back to what you said I'm bad because I don't like barbecue but you're not bad because decisive strike is Op to you right ?A little hypocritical..
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30 seconds? really?
I would suggest that you learn to last longer in chases. By the way, nobody forces you to use DS.
And when I said that DS is OP? lol
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See your not listening right. Its called a scenario right .Every person isn't playing with survive with friends and isn't running self-care right.My whole thing was you said survivors abuse it you can't really abuse something that's once a game. Now we got if we got it every time we got hooked that's different.Just stabbing you after every hook that's abusing.
You keep saying I need to last longer or I need to get good but that can be said the same way you're saying decisive strike is being abused when you can only use it once and you can counter it multiple ways so in other words who really needs a good good?
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No
It isn´t. It´s just DS. No need to force a label onto it.
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Survivors must make a lot of mistakes for a scenario like that to happen.
How can I not think you are a bad player when you just said that "BBQ is an abuse"?
Next
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Guy you're still not listening right. It's another cop out that you guys have just like noed how are you able to see where everybody is at just by hooking somebody?How are you able to one shot everybody because we whooped your ass fast as hell. I'm supposed to get off the Jenn I'm on and jump in a locker that they now have scattered across the map because you guys probably complained about that too. Talking about I only use barbecue for blood points yeah right. What's funny is I would probably Loop the shiz out of you teabag you get reported and then once they see what I was running they probably would just laugh at you because I wasn't even have anything meta.Lmao hold that Empathy
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And just so you can understand since you can't keep up abuse is when you could use something more once you can use barbecue more than one all game. Your whining about something that gives us a Survivor four steps away from the Killer do to them tunneling LOL . Desperation setting in with those gens popping
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I don't notice any bias on your part. Absolutely...
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No
how is barbecue and chili abuse? it so easily countered don't understand what you are saying
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Yes
It’s a anti tunnel perk. It doesn’t need to be nerfed, killers think survivors sound toxic? I disagree, you guys have been crying over this for 4 years, get over it already. Leave the survivor on the ground, and go chase and hook someone else. Simple as that.
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No
The devs confirmed that it was not supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk.
Yet, some will claim that determining a perk's function by its creator's intent is a type of the genetic fallacy. For those, we can apply the tests of function, history, and application.
First off, those of you who are old enough to remember DS 1.0, which was around the Cambrian explosion to the Cenozoic era, will remember the pain of DS' first iteration; one free escape from the killer's grasp whenever you pleased. This was a second chance perk. The actual payload never changed in concept. The only things that changed throughout the years was the activation requirements. Even with the current activation requirements, the payload is a second chance.
The function of the perk is tied to its aforementioned payload. It's a free get out of jail card for whenever you make the grave error of getting stabbed. A 5 second stun and escaping the grasp won't do much in the way of telling a killer, "hey, if you go for me I'll hit you once." Moreover, they can just slug you, or even just eat the stun if they're in a favorable position. Once DS is out of the way, the killer just tunnels you more. It's like throwing your shoe in the direction of your pursuer. That won't convince your pursuers to leave; if anything, you're agitating them. What it does achieve, however, is giving you a window to escape, and absconding from the scene in a quick getaway sounds more like a second chance than telling people to leave you alone.
The applications of DS is based on its activation requisites. Sure, you can activate DS if you tunnel mercilessly, but its activation requirements are so broad that it can't possibly be a decent anti-tunnel perk. It has some overlap with anti-tunnel characteristics, but that is by no means the only characteristics it has (think of it as A=DS' payload, B=Anti-tunnel payload, A∩B [that's an intersection sign]). Its activation requirement isn't even remotely based on tunneling. You just have to be unhooked and the payload drops. A good anti-tunneling perk wouldn't base itself off of being unhooked; it would compare how long you have been chased to how long other survivors have been chased. DS just happens to have a specific activation requirement that gives off the appearance of anti-tunneling, but its payload is just one incidence and its applications are too broad to be a counter to tunneling.
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Yes
I meant to choose the option NO.
Anyway, the devs have stated before that DS was never meant to be an anti-tunnel perk. However, that's the most common fashion it is used in.
Plus, many of the changes that salty killer mains want will run the perk into the ground. "30-second timer; deactivate when a gen is tapped; deactivated when someone is hooked." These changes would buff face-camping. Down the savior and person being rescued, hook the savior, hook the person who was just rescued.
It should have a 30-second timer, but double when in the killer's terror radius, and pause when in a chase or slugged. Also, you shouldn't have to hit a skill-check.
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Yes
Anti-tunneling is currently its purpose. This doesn't mean that it can't do even more than that, or that it may not stop the killer from tunneling sometimes. But its current state is meant to make it an anti-tunneling perk, no matter how successful it is in that aspect or in others.
"But the devs said" yeah the devs also said that OoO is balanced so forgive me if I don't take everything that the devs said as an absolute truth 🤔
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Yes
Look at its design. It only activates if the killer tries to hook you within 60 seconds of being unhooked. The only two explainations are that it is supposed to protect you from tunneling and that they didn't think it through (which we have plenty of evidence that they behave that way thanks to other changes and justifications), or that the Devs intended for it to be god mode and wanted people to, you know, sit injured on gens/get insanely free rescues and them jump in a locker and be untouchable, thus creating gameplay that is both ridiculous and unfair. Since they haven't included any other mechanic even remotely like that second scenario, it seems pretty likely that it is the former.
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