Why *Shouldn't* Killers Camp, Tunnel, Mori, NOED etc. ?
Watching an interesting video Tofu made about a month ago about this sort of issue. And boy, did he nail it.
Essentially, killers are still expected to abide by an outdated code of honor, while survivors just...aren't.
If one side is going to do everything possible to win, why are killers expected not to do the same?
It would be wonderful if everyone cared more about having a fun game than winning - but that's just not the game at present. Whether it's SWF groups, smurfcomps, stompcomps, endless rounds of DS/DH/BT, keys, tricked out toolboxes, instaheals and at least one Blendette per game, survivors seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
Frankly, why should I, as a killer, be expected to play by some ruleset when the other side isn't?
Comments
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I try not to do any of those things, because a win feels much more satisfying when I don't mori, tunnel, or camp. I also like coming out of a match knowing people had some fun. However, if people tell you not to do any of those things, they are worse than the tunnnelers/campers themselves, nobody should tell you how to play and abide by secret rules.
25 -
I used to be this way, I really did. It feels like the killer should be there to facilitate a fun game, keep things moving and give the survivors some good scares and thrills.
Thing is - survivors don't seem to want this. They just want to win. And so...yeah. That seems to be the game now.
6 -
Yeah, if the gens get done extremely fast, then I might resort to tunneling or camping, or if the entire team is a bully squad who just want to annoy the killer. However, if the team just seems like some casuals, who are just playing to have fun, I won't tunnel and camp.
3 -
I can't speak for other killers but I don't tunnel/camp/Mori because I feel like the game is a lot less fun for ME that way. If my options are tunnel/camp/Mori but win a funless match or not use those options and lose a fun match, I'll take losing every time.
NOED I don't use because I don't like how unreliable it is. I just find that more often than not, survivors clear out NOED before I get the chance to use it (or if they don't, I get to use it once and then it gets cleared out).
6 -
This. I don’t think people should be telling people how to play and most of the time I really only see this from brand new players or probably killers having a bad day/match. It’s incredibly annoying to play against and has irked me in the moment, especially when I’m being hard tunnelled whilst surrounded by all of my other teammates that can (and are trying to in come cases) take a hit, but at the end of the day it’s the killer’s loss of BP (and my own if I haven’t been able to do anything because RNG spawned me in the killer’s gentle arms).
I fancy myself a killer main, but lately I’ve been playing more survivor. It has helped me to become far better at killer and to know what behaviour is painful to play against as both sides. Engaging in multiple chases, hooks, and other behaviours are more fun for me. I get more points. I’ve double pipped more often than not, even if I don’t 4K wipe. Drawing out the game is more fun for everyone, but I don’t think everyone needs to play that way. Some people think the win condition is all kills, some think it’s the BP and pips. I fall into the latter, but both are valid.
Killer, for me personally, kinda feels like DMing. I feel like the match is in my hands, I’m the one to apply pressure and chase, injure, kill. I get far more satisfaction punishing stupid or selfish gameplay (aka bad teamwork) as a killer. Why tunnel the unhooked survivor who had no control over their save when you can smack the greedy teammate and hope they learn from their mistakes?
I like to play fair because I find it a more enjoyable experience on both ends. I like never get flamed as a killer, even if I get a 4K. If I do, it’s just trolls that were going to flame no matter what and that’s not really my issue. I just find moris boring and unfun to play against (so I won’t run them—though they’re fun to watch so idk), I’ve literally never used NOED and never will (even when I only played killer), and find camping to be... low skill for lack of a better term. Like, I understand why people proxy camp (sometimes it’s impossible not to with overly altruistic teams), but face camping and spamming M1 on the hooked survivor is pretty dense to me. Might need a therapist or something. Idk, but you’re like not even getting points while 5 gens pop off. Cool? Big poggers?? Idk, I find it to be rather unsportsmanlike if it’s not actually strategic camping (which I understand, even if I don’t do it). Tunnelling sometimes can’t be helped, but I’ll drop chases to chase after someone I haven’t seen in a while since I can, again, get more BP that way. I’ve been in the tunnelled person’s shoes far too often. Feels bad.
It’s all just personal choice, but 9/10 times I assume people want to play the game to have fun, so I want to provide that from either role I’m playing. Makes it more fun for me, makes it more fun for others. Usually. It doesn’t mean that I go easy on survivors, but I want everyone to have equal opportunity to learn how to get better at the game (myself included) and to fill their roles. Y’all can play however you want, though. I’m just sharing my long-winded logic.
10 -
The killer is playing the bad guy. If it's within the rules it's fine.
2 -
because you are not playing with bots and dont need to be a acehole while doing so.
as long as they did nothing to you that eigther justifies bad bahavior towards them (e.g. toxicity) / forces you into such tactics (e.g. you being at 1 or 2 gens, getting your 2nd or 3rd hook), i see no justification for you to do it other than being super sweaty / toxic.
if you do it, dont expect the survivors you encounter to be nice towards you eigther.
and there is nothing more ridiculous than when someone (as the killer) plays like that and then has the audacity to complain about something the survivors did (considering he played like that first, otherwise its the other way around).
6 -
I don't even see how tactical slugging or tunneling is a toxic. If someone is running around with a toolbox or a key, damn right I'm eliminating them asap just makes sense. If you don't want to be a target, don't make yourself one.
Facecamping - yes. That is somewhat toxic. But at this point, I'm not above doing it if I'm getting skunked.
6 -
Shrug. I'll play honorably in games where people are acting in a way that deserves it. If somoneone DCs, or if it's been a fun game I'm happy to give the last survivor hatch or gate.
Thing is - it's easy to be charitable once you are winning.
Also - when I started I was an extremely nice killer and don't think I ever saw a survivor be nice in postgame. It was always 'Games full scrub uninstall' or 'gg ez' type gloating.
6 -
Because it isn't fun.
I play a lot of Killer and a lot of Survivor, and tunneling, slugging and camping isn't fun for anyone. There are points where it is required of the Killer if they want to win, but I've seen that most Killers try to avoid it.
8 -
To be honest, it's a fair point.
Lets make some rules for survivors too...
1. Gens cannot be completed within 60 seconds of each other
2. Each survivor must get in a chase at least once per game
3. You can't drop a pallet more than 3 times per chase
You break any of those rules and you are a toxic survivor.
Might give them a go myself tomorrow, see how the games play out. Not well, I assume 🤣
4 -
Many of the things "entitled survivor mains" try to enforce on Killers are just good plays.
Unless you're a literal god or the survivors really don't know how to play slugging at the right time or eliminating someone before 3 or 4 gens pop is a requirement to win.
In essence there are still many people that don't want Killers to make the right calls so they can teabag them at the gates and tell the killers to kill themselves. They will also call everything the Killer does "camping and tunneling".
You don't have to play by their rules. They sure as hell don't care how you want them to play.
7 -
Yes to 1. 2 would be nice but I'd rather see some sort of aura reveal if you hide for too long. 3...break all the pallets you want. Gives me points and most of the killers I play can laugh at pallets.
Argh, yes. I swear, at least once or twice a day I have that - where I can't find the slugs and they just bleed out. It's like 'sorry, mate. I was going to hook you but you wanted to die in a bush'.
I wish killers had a close range Deerstalker baseline. I often end up being unintentionally toxic because I just can't find people.
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I do hold survivors to a code of honour, and if they break it I disregard mine.
The reason they exist is because the game is absolutely ######### miserable otherwise. Too many idiots (and yes, if someone plays DbD competitively they are an idiot for a multitude of reasons) ruining games with scummy tactics. Oh, look, let's just tunnel this one person (a very inefficient tactic) and rob 4 people of a game. Oh, let's just do Gens Before Friends and abuse DS.
Except the entitled players of this community except one side to have rules of honour and not the other. And, when that is the case, they usually have wildly unrealistic expectations. For example: touching someone with DS is tunneling. Doing gens is genrushing. Looping strong areas is toxic. Zoning into deadzones is toxic.
(Okay, side note to bring in a ray of sunshine, I was chasing this Nea the other day through Shack>Path Pallet>Path Pallet>LT>Long Wall>Junk Tile. We both spent ages in the post game chat drooling over the setup. I was so jealous.)
2 -
Have fun getting Tbagged at the gate because you wanted to follow the rules survivor rules at that which is some mind game bs they've program us,I'm done being nice to survivor's only so they can bully my me and my favorite killer, no thank you they don't care they just want to ds you and get a free escape even though you out preformed them at every turn only to care you gey or trash in the end basically what there going to do win or lose.
2 -
You can patrol for two seconds around the hook and they still call you a b*****
3 -
I don't like camping because if it's first hook and they just sit there then I lose all of my points. In the same way killers don't like being abused with those flashlight users (Not the ones who are respectful, the ones who ACTIVELY LOOK FOR YOU AND PALLET SLAM AND ALL THAT BS TO BLIND YOU LMAO) as well as the survivors that are running farming perks (which also ruin it for other survivors if they aren't careful), survivors don't like getting f'd over and having people play like a jerk. The point of the game is to win. There are ways of doing that-- with a good group of survivors, NOT toxic players in general) that will allow both sides to have a good time. Hook, slash, damage, whatever, but getting tunneled while 3 gens pop is not fun. I'm sorry that some of you have met bad people on both sides, but I like to come out of those matches knowing that I'm playing the game in a way that allows everyone to have a good time. So, on that note, good luck in future matches and do your best :)!!
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Because Killers get 4 lives. Survivors only get 1
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Im hearing "THEY" from all of you, ######### people its "US" playing. (some of us play both sides and have fun doing both.) its not survivors fault that you prefer to be the aggressor, and its not Killers fault that survivors feel they have to gloat when they escape because you may not be the best player.. it is everyones fault for choosing up sides and feeling the "US" against "THEM" syndrome. Most of us play to have fun and earn some blood points. i haven't been playing this game for all that long, probably a total of 3 months and i'm not really great at it, but i was told #########, uninstall, you suckwithin the first few hours of playing the game. AND YOU WONDER WHY THIS COMMUNITY IS SO TOXIC?
try teaching people instead of belittling them because they haven't been playing for 4 years like you have. maybe a bit more understanding and a little less EGO, and the game might be fun for everyone.
my 2 cents. agree or don't.
"let the trolling begin"
2 -
I play based on the survivor's playstyle. If people are slow on gens and not all that great in chases I take it easier on people and give people plenty of time to unhook/heal, etc. If it's a sweaty team though I will do what it takes to win, and that sometimes includes tunneling/camping. If you abuse DS on me by hoping in a locker I'll always tunnel you though, it's a d1ck move and I don't tolerate it.
2 -
I mean, it's your choice. I think about the other side. If I don't like getting t-bagged at every pallet and at Exit Gates, Survivors probably don't like being tunneled to death and being facecamped.
I will do what I need to do to win, but that doesn't mean I cannot take other people's fun into consideration.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
5 -
The killers have the right to camp and etc, and I have the right to dc when they do it
3 -
Actually, they get 12.
2 -
I mean that's why, I was playing the way I was trying to be as fair as possible, I play killer all the time this way,but when I play survivor I get tunneled and camped.I know what it's like through the looking glass ,there's only rare occasions where a killer is respectful to me but, I didn't let the negativity effect me. Every survivor I play against never shows the same respect as I do to other players, they've always been obnoxious,rude,and toxic sure, I like to be a little naughty but it's all in good fun never toxic and, I can tell it's not toxic because of their response to my actions, but for the last month even longer everytime a survivor beats me they either gloat or Tbagg really hard or worst ,you get tired of that same ole routine trying to be fair only to not receive it back.
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Survivors are also expected to play/follow certain rules. You just listed them yourself.
Killers complain about them in these forums every single day.
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Camping
I don't face camp mid-game because it's typically bad strategy. If the survivors aren't coming to me then I need to go to them to keep up the pressure and keep getting hits and downs and scoring points. Me standing around doing nothing is just letting them do gens for free. Once the exits are open if I have someone on a hook I'll defend it since that's obviously the best play, but otherwise I don't just sit around defending a hook unless the survivors are dumb enough to rush in while I'm there.
Tunneling
Shorthand for "I don't like being downed twice in a row". This is all sore losing. Obviously if I have a choice between hitting an injured survivor versus a healthy one I'll down the injured one if I can. And if I think I can hook someone twice or three times versus two people once I'll hook the one person multiple times because killing them faster puts on huge pressure on the remaining survivors. There's absolutely nothing "unsportsmanlike" about downing the same person twice or three times in a row. The only reason not to "tunnel" is you shouldn't become overly focussed on chasing one survivor if it will take you too long to get a hit or down. You have to know when to break off a chase that will eat up too much of your time and be willing to switch to pressuring other gens or chasing other survivors who are out of position.
NOED
There's absolutely nothing wrong with using NOED. Since most games (maybe 60%) between equal opponents end with 0-2 kills (the game is built around the killer essentially "losing" at 0-1 kills and being "close/a draw" at 2 kills) it follows that the gens will be completed most of the time. Even if you play well, if the survivors also play well it will still be an uphill fight to stop the gens from being completed. So the Exit door stage of the game is a common occurrence and NOED is simply a version of Haunted Grounds, essentially, that happens to only work in that last one to two minutes of play. It's similar to using a perk like Corrupt Intervention or Whispers to help you in the first minute or two of play and then the perk not doing anything later, but in reverse since NOED doesn't help you until the last two minutes or so. The only reason survivors don't like this perk is because they feel "cheated" if they get downed at that point, as if they "deserve" to escape when the gens are done. Which is a fallacy, you don't deserve escape until you actual open the doors and leave, if you get downed before that you were fair game.
Personally I don't use NOED myself simply because I think the mid-game is the most fun part, I'd rather use perks that help me in the mid-game or maybe Whispers to get me in a chase right off the bat then a perk that will only help me in the end game that I find a bit more dull. But that's just my playstyle and I totally get other killers maybe wanting to beef up their endgame with NOED and more power to them!
Mori
There's nothing wrong with using Moris. If the devs didn't want people using Moris they wouldn't be in the game. Same with Keys. I don't use them that often mainly because I typically get more bloodpoints by not using them, but I have no problem using them if I'm doing a side mission that calls for me killing survivors for instance.
That being said I do think the Yellow Mori is worthless and the Red Mori is overpowered. (Green is fine.) Personally I'd be for rebalancing them like:
Yellow Mori: Lets you kill any survivor that you've hooked twice. (Better than the current version, still not as good as Green.)
Green Mori: Lets you kill one survivor that you've hooked once. (No change)
Red Mori: Both of the above. Lets you kill one survivor that you've hooked once and any survivor that you've hooked twice. It's not as powerful as the current version but still better than Green and still lets you get the mori animation multiple times per match.
(And along those lines I think Keys are fine for the most part, although I do think they should probably only let the key user escape and not multiple survivors with a single key.)
3 -
I play both Survivor and Killer. As a Killer I will camp, tunnel, slug, and Mori if that is the appropriate tactic in a given match. Since every game is different, I never know for certain what I have to do until I have to do it. There is nothing "scummy" or wrong with these tactics. They are, in fact, counterproductive if you use them at the wrong time, or incorrectly. Many of these tactics are coming up more and more because every day there are more SWF playing, and the SWF we already had are getting more and more practiced at using their built in advantage. I'm going to avoid going into a lecture about positive and negative feedback loops. You can read about them on your own time; google them. It suffices to say that Dead by Daylight is currently in a Negative Feedback Loop if you consider the requirement to be more and more efficient and ruthless just to maintain the status quo. I'm sure you see my point.
I'm an advocate of splitting the Solo and SWF Ques. I think this is unavoidable in the end. It is the only solution where the DEV will be able to add balancing objectives to balance the 5th Perk (Comms) without hurting everyone else. I don't think it will slow Ques down because Killers will be more than happy to fight SWF if the playing field is leveled. My suggestion is always requiring an extra Generator to power the gates and unlocking a 5th Perk for the Killer against them. Whatever is eventually worked out, it will allow people to stand down from the OTHER solutions being used. How do current Killers cope? If you aren't a God (Monto, Otz, Stalkyboi, or Tru), you try to reduce 4v1 to a 3v1 as quickly as possible so you have a chance at keeping up. That is just the game now. We adapt. If we didn't have to play that way, we wouldn't.
For better or for worst, this is a PVP game, full contact (virtually anyway) that pits a supercharged Serial Killer against for victims that seek to be Survivors instead. Right now SWF as well as certain balance issue, hacks, and lag exploits are screwing up the water works but good. I have faith they will all get addressed in time, but there is no reason to blame Killers for using the legal, valid tools at their disposal. Likewise, I don't complain about Survivor Perks either. Why would I? That would make me a hypocrite.
The rules we should all abide by (in my opinion) are:
- Don't cheat, either by hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat, i.e. no Salt.
My polite suggestions for etiquette are:
- If you are Killer and notice you are NOT fighting a SWF (and I admit it is hard to know sometimes) don't treat them like one.
- If you are Survivors who beat the tar out of a Killer, don't treat them in a way during game or after that will make them coldblooded.
- Remember that this is game, and what happens in a match stays in THAT match.
5 -
Camping - While sure, the argument is "It's not effective, just do gens while the person dies" it's not fun to sit there being facecamped while the killer taunts you by hitting you over and over, and it's even worse when your braindead teammates try to save you. This really only applies to Solo Queue though. It just feels demoralizing tbh.
Tunnel - To be honest, I don't mind tunneling because the survivor will usually have Decisive Strike or know how to loop if they are being tunneled, however, it is not fun to be camped AND tunneled the moment you get off, because it feels as if you have no chance to escape.
Mori - I don't see the issue with moris.
NOED - NOED is annoying, but unless you facecamp with NOED, there's not a huge issue with it.
Basically, all of these strats have one thing in common, they give no opportunity of escape for one specific survivor while practically letting all the others go. And yeah, it's stupid when the 4man claudette rank 1 p3 legacy swf is telling you how garbage you are for being on the same plane of existence as the person on the hook, but honestly, getting camped isn't as bad if the killer doesn't sit there hitting you and taunting the whole time, just like getting no escapes isn't as bad when the survivors don't sit there teabagging. Just don't rub their face in it tbh and I'm chill with it. Other than putting yourself at a disadvantage while doing these though, go for it I guess. This is coming from someone who has to deal with a SWF teammate that doesn't do generators and flashlight clicks then complains about tunneling so I don't tend to mind it tbh.
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Killers are self serving and want to inflict pain. If they sit in front of a hook watching someone hang all match, they’re denying themselves that pleasure to any real extent. Furthermore, if they only target the rescued survivor, then they’re limiting their spread of agony and terror. No killer wants to see 75% of their potential victims escape unscathed!
Moris are a sweet treat, but wasted if the survivor doesn’t get to develop a sense of true dread first. They should go through the agony of 2 hooks and at least 4 attacks first!
NOED is fine.
1 -
I enjoyed this video when I saw it. He provides a good explanation of how the code came to be. As dbd grew and grew, the code was kinda of lost.
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Am I? When I do find myself camping (never face, always patrol or proxy) it's not to do with the pleasure of killing that survivor (unless it's some dumb daily or quest) - the idea is either to remove something like a souped up toolbox, an Object or simply someone who I consider a high priority kill.
However, the main purpose isn't usually to kill them. It's to draw multiple players to an area of the map where hopefully I have more favorable terrain, or can easily patrol generators. Especially in games where the survivors are sneaking around in bushes all game.
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Summarised my own thoughts better than I ever could lol
1 -
Everyone should just play as they want to play. I've played 10 survivor games today and have been tunneled 4x, face camped 2x and mori'd 4x although 2 of those 4 tunnel and mori overlap as I was tunneled off hook into a mori and you know what... I don't care.
I had fun, I ran around, I did some gens, I escaped a few times even after an attempted tunnel and if I got mori'd (even after 1 hook) I watched the animation because some of them a really sick, I love em. Then I queued again and still didn't care, thats the best part about this, its a game and it doesn't matter. I de-piped a couple of times, pipped up a couple of times, black pipped and am a level higher than I was when I started but again who cares.
I've played about 10 killer games one serious hook sabo grief squad that really powered through the gens but with it going south I switched to tunneling out one guy and camping the other in the egc for a very salty 2-2. My response gg wp. I got destroyed tonight for about 6 games and finished out with 3 great games on Hag Trapper and Doc, completeing a few rift challenges. People t-bagged, clickity clicked, pointed, post game chat abused me but again I don't care its a game. At least 6-8 people have keyed out an escape on me tonight and I don't care. I've also had some great post game chuckles with good people who can game like adults, people like that make the game better.
I also burned 4 moris, one useless netting me only one kill, (they were very good), one totally destroying everyone de-pips single hook mori run with legion for a daily, and the rest I played em if I felt like it. I'm one rank lower today than I was yesterday and I DON'T CARE.
Its a game its fun, we all need to stop the whining, the moaning, the no counter play, delete mori's/keys cry baby overeactions and just play the game.
Beacuse its meant to be fun, if its not why play?
(Numbers are estimates I really don't keep track of this #########, I have a real job to work at this is supposed to be just for fun).
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This is a bit of a skewed perspective. Many killers actually are nice and play fair, but this has made a lot of survivors expect it and get toxic when they face a "no holds bared" killer. Killers made the book on how to be nice and toxic survivors have twisted it into a rulebook.
1 -
I'm just going to echo the sentiment that Killers seem to be held to a different standard than Survivors. I get part of the reason why is because the killer is literally trying to end the match, and sometimes that means a survivor is out super fast. But what is the Killer supposed to do? Politely wait in a corner, facing a wall, while each Survivor gets their full three hooks? That's obviously an exaggeration, but it sometimes feels that way.
The main problem is that we seem to often forget that the Killer is supposed to have fun also. Yet a lot of salty Survivors seem to be under the impression that anything they personally do to give them the edge (certain perks, body blocking, voice chat, etc) is fair play, and anything the Killer does is rude and trying to ruin their fun. Like a match can never be fun if they don't escape, and screw the fun of the Killer, they don't matter.
I know it's deeply unpopular with the Survivor main crowd, but I well and truly believe SWF with voice chat is ruining an exceedingly large number of games for the Killer specifically and to a degree, harming the game as a whole. It goes entirely against the spirit of the game, and only serves making things easier for the Survivor and often impossible for Killers. Especially early to mid rank Killers that may just be trying to learn the game still. Killers don't have an equivalent answer to it. They're alone entirely, so it's not like they can just chat with someone to level the field. Now, I know that some SWF are literally just friends playing together, and most of the time, that's fine. I don't mean them. I mean the try hard groups that can never ever let the Killer even have a glimmer of hope, followed by being rude in post game chat to the very Killer that they already likely annoyed for 5-15 minutes. Cause god forbid they have fun too.
I guess my point is, as long as there are Survivors that can't have fun without a full team escape and don't view the Killer as another person rather than just a punching bag, it's just always going to be this way. Where Survivors cry foul whenever the Killer does anything to counter their own game tilting/sometimes breaking shenanigans. It would just be nice if Survivors were held to some kind of standard of fair play.
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If you want to go at it from that angle:
- Survivors get 2 lives each (totalling 8 - the last 1 each dont count because its their final life)
- Killers get 16 lives
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Camping
This one is simple.
If you camp, you pressure one guy.
You might get the kill (though between BT, DS, and Bodyblocks who knows), but the 120 seconds it takes somebody to die on hook translates to 360 man-seconds of work that can be done on generators, out of 400 that are required to power the exit gates.
You also lose rank and get next to no points for it.
Tunneling
The killer should tunnel if given the opportunity.
Thing is, DS exists, so that opportunity rarely arises.
Always go for the easiest target.
Mori
It's boring.
You get no points.
You lose rank.
They're expensive in the bloodweb.
NoED
Because the perk just isn't very good.
Especially with Undying in the mix it's pretty common to see people run Detective's Hunch now, so NoED likely won't survive to endgame.
Even if it does, this has all the weaknesses of a Tier 3 Myers. If you catch everybody clumped together on the same gen and get a 4-man Slug in the endgame to turn it around, GREAT. That's almost never gonna happen though. You're still pretty easy to loop, and most of the time you're probably gonna get one down (if that), and there's a decent chance they're already injured anyways.
Why run NoED to maybe clutch the endgame when you can run Haunted Ground for the same number of downs, but at a point in the game where you can still snowball off of them?
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That's not what he said in that video...he said both killers AND survivors followed this honor code. Survivors wouldn't use op crappy perks and neither would killer. It wasn't just killers following the rule.
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This is going to end up as semantic quibbling, isn't it :) ?
Yes. But as things stand, killers are still expected to adhere to this 'code' while survivors aren't. I could probably have explained my point better.
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I recommend people go watch Tofus actual video cause this post seems like it was trying to bait a killer vs survivor argument with their wording.
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Tbh most survivor think a Killer HAS to obey these rules (which is wrong: we do it cuz we are nice players or want to challenge ourself).
Tunneling / Camping (talkin about makin sure a survivor dies after he reached second hook not face camping from the start) is doing your objective a efficient way (and this is a fact).
Some salty survivor are super offended by Killers abusing their weakness when they do the same by doing gens as fast as possible (you could do it slower when you see the killer is struggling but will you slow down?).
Noed: Its just a revenge perk after you lost the game a good Killer will bring perks to help win the Game. Nothing wrong with it cuz they can just do bones to counter it and even if they die to noed they still had a full game of making bloodpoints.
Mori: Pure Bullshit (similar to Keys). Being able to speed up Killing is not very good for the Game (they should only work after 2 hooks).
So in the end play as you wish (just dont use moris unless the devs force you with dailys and challenges).
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No one is saying survivors aren't though...read the posts on the forum. Killers constantly talk about crappy things survivors do that they wish they didn't. Killers even cry for survivors to get nerfed. There's two sides but you're just choosing to paint the survivors poorly here.
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Sigh this discussion again?
The devs are pretty fortunate there are so many players who still play the game to have fun and to ACTUALLY win, if all killers would just suddenly turn to camping/tunneling/noed/mori this game would just die and technically there is nothing really preventing that from happening other then...well the people who want to play for fun.
What value is there in taking candy from a baby? what did you ackomplish? what victory is there to be had? oh right...nothing.
Its the same with survivors demanding it to be easer to pip about a year or so ago, it directly deminishes the value of a pip or of rank.
You can cheat in a game and win, congrats? you can also play seriously and not literally use everything to give yourself the edge and the more you do not use, the greater the victory when you end up doing well.
and apart from all of that...what is fun about just standing there and waiting for people to come to you, each their own sure but I dont see how this motivates anyone to keep playing.
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Sure. I think it makes sense in context.
The issue is that survivors do not seem to care about the fun of the killer, while the killer is expected to care about the fun of the survivors. And BHVR seem to support this mindset, which is why they got rid of both killer matchmaking and SWF/smurf protection for some reason.
And no, that's not the sort of camping I'm talking about - unless it's a Blendette with a toolbox or a key.
When people accuse me of 'camping' it's because I'm patrolling a path that takes me past a hooked survivor at some point. Why wouldn't I? I can force chases to happen where I want and not lose 3 gens without even seeing a survivor, because they are a premade and have a permanent lookout/object.
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Agreed! Which is my initial selection of killers was Hag, Spirit and Doctor. If it's a horror game, I want to hear those buggers scream.
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I mean fun for the other is kinda also fun for you no? because if the other is not having fun then they just dont try anymore and the entire thing is a waste of time.
But my message goes both ways, I know that when im leveling a character and I happen to pretty much only have meta type perks from the bloodweb, I know that many things I got away with were because the perk carried me, the perk did that for me, that was not me in the slightest so even when I escape or make others escape its just very much with the knowledge that that was just cheap nonsense.
Survivors running full small pp sweatlord meta builds, again I dont understand the mindset because they should realize that they dont ackomplish anything when they escape, but sometimes I think that that is their point, that the game is broken and killers dont stand a chance against such teams.
But its all a bit of a nothing burger again because not that many people play at that level that its really a problem and when you do encounter one, well, idk about you but I just start memeing because any notion of serious play was out the window from the start.
Same as a killer bringing their ebony mori.
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These are all good reasons not to do some of the things on the list and when to do some of them, but none of them are reasons to tell someone else not to do them. Like I said play how you want to play. There is no rule book anything goes until death or escape.
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Moris are like keys, and I do genuinely avoid using them unless it's evident from the outset that I'm facing a smurfcomp or stompcomp. Or I get one of those annoying quests that essentially require them (the Obsession one...yeah, sorry about those games everyone).
I'd be happy to see both go, if the Mori quests go with them.
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I find tactical camping to be an invaluable tool. Not standing next to someone and waiting for them to die, but trying to bait survivors into engaging away from areas that they are strong.
I'm still very much an intermediate killer, but wow - has this been useful, especially against SWF teams who tend to be overly altruistic at times.
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It can be. Its just part of the game.
Like knowing when to drop a chase because the guy your on is in strong spot and will likely loop you for several gens. At no point does the looping guy stop and say we've looped this enough lets run toi the next thing for more fun. You as killer have to force them off the loop, just as a coordinated team can bait a killer away from a hook.
It's not the most effecient tactic but it has its place like everything else. Especially against overly alturistic teams.
Best game today was a three basement hook killer shack lockdown with trapper.
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