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"Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience" Clarification
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system
In the updated rules and Report System the above statement is listed in the Temp Ban Section for a temporary ban.
"Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience" That is very vague and not very descriptive of what that entails. It seems like many survivors are going to take being hooked a second time (due to a teammate making a bad save likely) as being targeted and ruining their game.
In the non-bannable offense section it states that tunneling is not a bannable or reportable offense. Just seeking clarification as the first statement feels like it is talking about tunneling to me.
Comments
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that could lead to some problems with salty survivors...
i think they ment something like always trying to get that person in your lobby and then only focus him down and hardcamp, so he has no fun (e.g. streamsniping)5 -
well steamsniping is not reportable either. So yeah. Not really sure what that entails still. Which is why i am asking to try and get official clarification.
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this is to combat face camping killers as it ruins it for everyone in the game to actively learn and play the gameFabyoulust said:well steamsniping is not reportable either. So yeah. Not really sure what that entails still. Which is why i am asking to try and get official clarification.
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They meant trying to play with someone over and over again just to ensure that they have no fun at all. I can see players trying to twist this statement around and say “Oh you tunneled and I didn’t think it was fun, so I’m going to report you. Enjoy your ban”, which makes me glad that BHVR is ignoring reports for tunneling and camping.6
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Stream sniping is reportable to Twitch.Fabyoulust said:well steamsniping is not reportable either. So yeah. Not really sure what that entails still. Which is why i am asking to try and get official clarification.
They do need to clarify it a bit, though it would be as simple as adding "over multiple matches" to the sentence.1 -
I'm just glad they'll ban face campers0
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@SnakeSound222 said:
They meant trying to play with someone over and over again just to ensure that they have no fun at all. I can see players trying to twist this statement around and say “Oh you tunneled and I didn’t think it was fun, so I’m going to report you. Enjoy your ban”, which makes me glad that BHVR is ignoring reports for tunneling and camping.I think what this also covers is say you've got a survivor you're chasing and they're dead on hook. But rather than finish them off you go after the 1 person. You singlemind lely go after them even when say there's 3 injured survivors in full view of you.
It's tunneling but on steroids since you're willing to lose the game just to ruin someone else's.
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@Fabyoulust said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system
In the updated rules and Report System the above statement is listed in the Temp Ban Section for a temporary ban.
"Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience" That is very vague and not very descriptive of what that entails. It seems like many survivors are going to take being hooked a second time (due to a teammate making a bad save likely) as being targeted and ruining their game.In the non-bannable offense section it states that tunneling is not a bannable or reportable offense. Just seeking clarification as the first statement feels like it is talking about tunneling to me.
tbh I've always hated this rule even though I won't personally have an issue with it. Seems like a rule to protect very specific players where it could easily be covered by other rules.
The only scenario I can imagine this taking place is meant to protect big streamers. If a survivor gets into a game with the same killer 5 times in a row what is the killer supposed to do ignore them?
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It means that if you get in the lobby of the same killer over and over, and that killer focuses you, only you and no one else, than that would be reportable.
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@Tsulan said:
It means that if you get in the lobby of the same killer over and over, and that killer focuses you, only you and no one else, than that would be reportable.So tunneling. which is on the not reportable list.
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I said over several lobbies. Imagine you only get matched against the same killer and said killer ignores everyone else and only goes for you. For several matches.Fabyoulust said:@Tsulan said:
It means that if you get in the lobby of the same killer over and over, and that killer focuses you, only you and no one else, than that would be reportable.So tunneling. which is on the not reportable list.
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That's the point. If the killer focuses (tunnels) only on that survivor and ignores everyone else for several matches, than that's reportable. But, if said killer tunnels everyone, than that's not reportable.Hellbilly said:I'm curious about this too because I sometimes get matched to this one troll every now and then. It was worse a few weeks ago when the matchmaking wasn't working and I'd get matched to the same people repeatedly. But whenever I see this troll I take out a mori and try to kill him. Because this guy will go out of his way to ruin the game for everyone. He'll DC when I down him, he'll stay still until crows circle, he'll sandbag other Survivors, and all that.
So could this guy take a couple of screen shots and cry to devs lying "He's bullying me! Please ban!" And I get punished?
The wording is so incredibly vague that it's troubling. Define "targeting one person" and define "ruin someone's game" @not_Queen
What is, according to the devs, "ruining someone's game?" Is it mori'ing them every time? Is it camping them? Is it slugging them? How is this determined? I really hope to god you don't use screen shots at least in this situation.
There's a fine lining and I guess they evaluate it from case to case. Since it's very hard to proof that a killer targets only 1 survivor for several matches.2 -
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@Fabyoulust said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system
In the updated rules and Report System the above statement is listed in the Temp Ban Section for a temporary ban.
"Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience" That is very vague and not very descriptive of what that entails. It seems like many survivors are going to take being hooked a second time (due to a teammate making a bad save likely) as being targeted and ruining their game.In the non-bannable offense section it states that tunneling is not a bannable or reportable offense. Just seeking clarification as the first statement feels like it is talking about tunneling to me.
There is a very easy clarification here. The phrasing may be lengthy, but the word the team is looking for is Harassment. Tunneling, camping, stream sniping in one match is not harassment. That is just a player playing a game. Purposefully targeting a player multiple games in a row to ruin the experience is harassment. There has to be multiple games and multiple cases in order for a ban to occur. There has to be a history built up for this to happen. This does not happen in 2 or so games or just because someone reported the player.
So there is nothing major to really question.
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For example, if you are streaming as killer and you get me as survivor in the lobby. You say ######### that guy, I don't like him. And you tunnel me and let everyone else go. Than that would be bannable, BUT only if it happens for several matches.Hellbilly said:@Tsulan said:
Hellbilly said:I'm curious about this too because I sometimes get matched to this one troll every now and then. It was worse a few weeks ago when the matchmaking wasn't working and I'd get matched to the same people repeatedly. But whenever I see this troll I take out a mori and try to kill him. Because this guy will go out of his way to ruin the game for everyone. He'll DC when I down him, he'll stay still until crows circle, he'll sandbag other Survivors, and all that.
So could this guy take a couple of screen shots and cry to devs lying "He's bullying me! Please ban!" And I get punished?
The wording is so incredibly vague that it's troubling. Define "targeting one person" and define "ruin someone's game" @not_Queen
What is, according to the devs, "ruining someone's game?" Is it mori'ing them every time? Is it camping them? Is it slugging them? How is this determined? I really hope to god you don't use screen shots at least in this situation.
That's the point. If the killer focuses (tunnels) only on that survivor and ignores everyone else for several matches, than that's reportable. But, if said killer tunnels everyone, than that's not reportable.
There's a fine lining and I guess they evaluate it from case to case. Since it's very hard to proof that a killer targets only 1 survivor for several matches.
So in other words you don't know. Just say that. Because tunneling isn't bannable. They've confirmed that. So, if I get matched to so and so 3 times in a row, and I tunnel to make sure he dies (because he's an #########) now suddenly I'm banned because I quote unquote """""""bullied"'""""""" him? Come on.
Because you are streaming, you are giving out proof of your intentions and the devs can easily review it.
Unless the offender or the victim is a streamer, it's very hard to proof that.
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@Hellbilly said:
@Tsulan said:
Hellbilly said:I'm curious about this too because I sometimes get matched to this one troll every now and then. It was worse a few weeks ago when the matchmaking wasn't working and I'd get matched to the same people repeatedly. But whenever I see this troll I take out a mori and try to kill him. Because this guy will go out of his way to ruin the game for everyone. He'll DC when I down him, he'll stay still until crows circle, he'll sandbag other Survivors, and all that.
So could this guy take a couple of screen shots and cry to devs lying "He's bullying me! Please ban!" And I get punished?
The wording is so incredibly vague that it's troubling. Define "targeting one person" and define "ruin someone's game" @not_Queen
What is, according to the devs, "ruining someone's game?" Is it mori'ing them every time? Is it camping them? Is it slugging them? How is this determined? I really hope to god you don't use screen shots at least in this situation.
That's the point. If the killer focuses (tunnels) only on that survivor and ignores everyone else for several matches, than that's reportable. But, if said killer tunnels everyone, than that's not reportable.
There's a fine lining and I guess they evaluate it from case to case. Since it's very hard to proof that a killer targets only 1 survivor for several matches.
So in other words you don't know. Just say that. Because tunneling isn't bannable. They've confirmed that. So, if I get matched to so and so 3 times in a row, and I tunnel to make sure he dies (because he's an #########) now suddenly I'm banned because I quote unquote """""""bullied"'""""""" him? Come on.
I think you're taking @Tsulan 's response out of context.
In your scenario you're fine as long as you're actually going after other people as well. But if in every game you only go after that survivor even if someone wounded runs into you. Then you ignore that wounded person and you go after the full hp person you hate.
This is a repeated type thing not just 1 or 2 games unless it super obvious it's going on and they'll probably watch your account if you try and skip 1 game of not touching them. Then go back to tunneling that 1 person repeatedly.
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@Hellbilly said:
Okay, there's still problems with that. Let's say you get matched to an SWF squad. Let's say there's one guy, Kingshitlord, who is obviously like the leader of the squad. What if every time you matched to this squad and no matter your best attempts you're ONLY able to get Kingshitlord every time? So therefore, Kingshitlord can make up some BS and cry to the devs to get you banned.
If the devs are going off of screen shots then the guy playing victim can construct a narrative based on 5-6 screen shots even if the matches are more than a week apart. Like say, you get matched to the guy twice then next week it was once then the week after it was three times.
Not to mention that Kingshitlord can tell his SWF buddies to report you as well.
You see how this can be abused?
No, because it is extremely rare to see the same players over and over and over again. Once or twice maybe, but you will probably see at least another group in between or after a back to back match. What you are failing to see is the history of the situation. 1-2 games is not going to ban you. Now if you are 10-15 games and the only person you kill is Kingshitlord then maybe you will have some issues.
The real issue is you are looking at a 1% chance of what you described happening. Again this is a repeatable behavior that is deemed as harassment. The times I do see players in the same lobby are when they are stream sniping a streamer. You should worry less about being banned from this report more about things that will actually matter like verbally harassing players to ######### or Racial slurs because unfortunately, that is way more common.
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@Nightmare247 said:
@Hellbilly said:
Okay, there's still problems with that. Let's say you get matched to an SWF squad. Let's say there's one guy, Kingshitlord, who is obviously like the leader of the squad. What if every time you matched to this squad and no matter your best attempts you're ONLY able to get Kingshitlord every time? So therefore, Kingshitlord can make up some BS and cry to the devs to get you banned.
If the devs are going off of screen shots then the guy playing victim can construct a narrative based on 5-6 screen shots even if the matches are more than a week apart. Like say, you get matched to the guy twice then next week it was once then the week after it was three times.
Not to mention that Kingshitlord can tell his SWF buddies to report you as well.
You see how this can be abused?
No, because it is extremely rare to see the same players over and over and over again. Once or twice maybe, but you will probably see at least another group in between or after a back to back match. What you are failing to see is the history of the situation. 1-2 games is not going to ban you. Now if you are 10-15 games and the only person you kill is Kingshitlord then maybe you will have some issues.
The real issue is you are looking at a 1% chance of what you described happening. Again this is a repeatable behavior that is deemed as harassment. The times I do see players in the same lobby are when they are stream sniping a streamer. You should worry less about being banned from this report more about things that will actually matter like verbally harassing players to [BAD WORD] or Racial slurs because unfortunately, that is way more common.
I don't know what rank your at but at ranks 3-1 it's not uncommon to see a short list of people repeatably throughout your sessions.
The devs have gotten a lot of flak for their unreliable report system in-game and taking out the other one months ago and the recent video's of tru3 getting streamsniped + sandbagged by trolls sparked intense conversation about it. In haste to quiet it down and take the heat off they rushed out a new report guideline but failed to address the gray areas and/or make things too vague.
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@JackieEstacadoWhen said:
I don't know what rank your at but at ranks 3-1 it's not uncommon to see a short list of people repeatably throughout your sessions.
The devs have gotten a lot of flak for their unreliable report system in-game and taking out the other one months ago and the recent video's of tru3 getting streamsniped + sandbagged by trolls sparked intense conversation about it. In haste to quiet it down and take the heat off they rushed out a new report guideline but failed to address the gray areas and/or make things too vague.
So there are two issues you bring up:
Rank. Rank is bs in this game. It is so easy I could set my 4 year old nephew down and he could make rank 1 in a few hours/days without having really any skill. The survivors and killer basically just need to breathe to rank up. It means absolutely nothing. Now, a short list is true at those ranks, but even with a short list there are still 10000 or so players who are probably playing at those ranks. It will take quite a bit for you to get enough games over a 20-30 game period for it to even be considered as a ban and we are also talking some really bad stuff before you would get banned. I think BHVR is intelligent enough to see that "Numbnutts69" reported along with 3 other players 22 times, but the killer has never had any other complaints that they just throw it out and ban the false reporters. I am almost 100% certain that I have a better chance at throwing a dart into the air, lie face down in the ground, and have the dart hit a predetermined freckle on my butt than someone has the chance at getting banned because 1 SWF team reported them multiple times.
Tru3, like him or not, is a public figure. He personally is a celebrity and will get targeted and sandbagged, because he is a public figure. Streamers like JenDenise, Morf, AngryPug, and Bahroo all have the same thing happen. It is part of the problem with streaming and there is no way to stop it, but you cannot take just one person's word for something no matter who they are.
So the argument boils down to history. History of the reporter, the history of the reported, and history of their interactions together. I am willing to bet that BHVR will inspect before making any decisions and if in doubt they won't do anything. They are probably looking for exact undisputable evidence that something happened, before banning people from playing their game.
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@Hellbilly said:
121@Nightmare247 said:
@Hellbilly said:
Okay, there's still problems with that. Let's say you get matched to an SWF squad. Let's say there's one guy, Kingshitlord, who is obviously like the leader of the squad. What if every time you matched to this squad and no matter your best attempts you're ONLY able to get Kingshitlord every time? So therefore, Kingshitlord can make up some BS and cry to the devs to get you banned.
If the devs are going off of screen shots then the guy playing victim can construct a narrative based on 5-6 screen shots even if the matches are more than a week apart. Like say, you get matched to the guy twice then next week it was once then the week after it was three times.
Not to mention that Kingshitlord can tell his SWF buddies to report you as well.
You see how this can be abused?
No, because it is extremely rare to see the same players over and over and over again. Once or twice maybe, but you will probably see at least another group in between or after a back to back match. What you are failing to see is the history of the situation. 1-2 games is not going to ban you. Now if you are 10-15 games and the only person you kill is Kingshitlord then maybe you will have some issues.
The real issue is you are looking at a 1% chance of what you described happening. Again this is a repeatable behavior that is deemed as harassment. The times I do see players in the same lobby are when they are stream sniping a streamer. You should worry less about being banned from this report more about things that will actually matter like verbally harassing players to [BAD WORD] or Racial slurs because unfortunately, that is way more common.
1: I just told you that it is possible to get matched to the same people repeatedly. Especially if you get to the high ranks really quickly after a rank reset. It's very possible to get matched to someone or an SWF squad repeatedly in a short span of time.So it's not a "1% chance" like you claim.
2: how many matches does it take for a guy to cry harassment?
@Nightmare247 said:
@JackieEstacadoWhen said:
I don't know what rank your at but at ranks 3-1 it's not uncommon to see a short list of people repeatably throughout your sessions.
The devs have gotten a lot of flak for their unreliable report system in-game and taking out the other one months ago and the recent video's of tru3 getting streamsniped + sandbagged by trolls sparked intense conversation about it. In haste to quiet it down and take the heat off they rushed out a new report guideline but failed to address the gray areas and/or make things too vague.
So there are two issues you bring up:
- Rank. Rank is bs in this game. It is so easy I could set my 4 year old nephew down and he could make rank 1 in a few hours/days without having really any skill.
The survivors and killer basically just need to breathe to rank up. It means absolutely nothing. Now, a short list is true at those ranks, but even with a short list there are still 10000 or so players who are probably playing at those ranks. It will take quite a bit for you to get enough games over a 20-30 game period for it to even be considered as a ban and we are also talking some really bad stuff before you would get banned. I think BHVR is intelligent enough to see that "Numbnutts69" reported along with 3 other players 22 times, but the killer has never had any other complaints that they just throw it out and ban the false reporters. I am almost 100% certain that I have a better chance at throwing a dart into the air, lie face down in the ground, and have the dart hit a predetermined freckle on my butt than someone has the chance at getting banned because 1 SWF team reported them multiple times.
- Tru3, like him or not, is a public figure. He personally is a celebrity and will get targeted and sandbagged, because he is a public figure. Streamers like JenDenise, Morf, AngryPug, and Bahroo all have the same thing happen. It is part of the problem with streaming and there is no way to stop it, but you cannot take just one person's word for something no matter who they are.
So the argument boils down to history. History of the reporter, the history of the reported, and history of their interactions together. I am willing to bet that BHVR will inspect before making any decisions and if in doubt they won't do anything. They are probably looking for exact undisputable evidence that something happened, before banning people from playing their game.
So, you think it's very easy to get to rank 1 as Killer... I think that about say's it all right there. Since this guy seems to think that anyone could just jump into the game and without any practice get to rank 1. As Killer anyway.
@Nightmare247 I really think you should stop responding and trying to talk on behalf of the devs because it doesn't seem like you know what you're talking about.
I see an awful lot of fear mongering going on so lets state somethings that're being ignored in all this.
- The devs aren't going to just hand out bans like candy voer this so everyone just chill.
2.The devs aren't going to simply take a few game sand say yeah this is ban worthy without having actual proof.
- The devs have many tools at their disposal here including heat maps, those that record movements etc. Maps with top down play back so they can watch from above. Both 1st person and 3rd person views of the people in the match. They also have tons of other tool available to them.
So if you get a ban for this it's because you most definitely deserved it, if you don't get a ban then you're not deserving of one. As Wookie said once in regards to someone complaining that the Summoners Code was too vague. Just like some are doing here regarding the new code of conduct.
It basically boils down to** "DON'T BE A JERK"**
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Ok bottom line they're not going to give out info so the system can be gamed, all the scenarios you came up with have already been prepped for. They've probably talked to Riot games about the exact same issues and how to handle it.
If you're not doing something wrong you won't get into trouble, I never once ever got a single warning or chat restriction in League. I trash talked the same as other people did but I never crossed the line into harassment. I might say that gank was close but my skills are better.
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Wow. What a coincidence that your talking about this because yesterday I just had a salty survivor text me saying I tunnelled even though I fresh hooked everyone and they said they were going to get their friends to tunnel me ingame if they get me which I accused of targeting because it’s attempting to ruin my experience multiple times.2
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@WarthogFury said:
Wow. What a coincidence that your talking about this because yesterday I just had a salty survivor text me saying I tunnelled even though I fresh hooked everyone and they said they were going to get their friends to tunnel me ingame if they get me which I accused of targeting because it’s attempting to ruin my experience multiple times.Did you report the one that threatened you even though they probably won't, they'll bully people that way till they get nailed. For me i just ignore them and laugh silently at them because false reports don't get you nailed.
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This is a dumb rule that is too open to personal interpretation. Also as a killer main what if I focus someone not to “ruin their game experience”, but to improve MY game experience? There are a number of survivors who always abuse the crappiest loops on every map, run the most “toxic” perks, always carry flashlights. Survivors whose sole purpose every match is to annoy the killer and waste as much of their time as they can while their teammates obliterate the gens.
Im not allowed to remove these players from my game ASAP? That doesn’t make sense. If I see these players in my lobby it’s either a mori or a hard patrol when they’re hooked and they aren’t lasting long after that.
Then again I’m on Xbox so I don’t think bans are even possible there.2 -
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I'd be surprised if this rule will ever be enforced because it would be so damned hard to prove. I'd venture to guess that people who are reported for violating this rule, would be banned sooner for something else.
@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
This is a dumb rule that is too open to personal interpretation. Also as a killer main what if I focus someone not to “ruin their game experience”, but to improve MY game experience? There are a number of survivors who always abuse the crappiest loops on every map, run the most “toxic” perks, always carry flashlights. Survivors whose sole purpose every match is to annoy the killer and waste as much of their time as they can while their teammates obliterate the gens.Im not allowed to remove these players from my game ASAP? That doesn’t make sense. If I see these players in my lobby it’s either a mori or a hard patrol when they’re hooked and they aren’t lasting long after that.
Then again I’m on Xbox so I don’t think bans are even possible there.
This times a million ^ There are people that just run around activating my traps while I'm playing the hag... it seems like it's all they do. They follow me, wait til I set a trap, and immediately activate it. Really obnox, but hey, it is what it is I suppose.
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It says "repeatedly" which makes it sound like it's something over the course of many games not just one.
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Seriously screen shots have built in time dates only a lazy dev or mid wouldn't look at the coding date of the screen shot and notice there incredibly far apart1
