http://dbd.game/killswitch
You all really have forgotten the entire purpose of Thanatophobia, haven’t you?!
My eyes are bleeding from seeing all the “tHaNa WaS nErFeD!!” claims.
Has everybody forgotten that Thana is DESIGNED around encouraging/tricking survivors into healing more frequently?!
We need to go back to understand Nurse, and all 3 of her perks. As absurdly powerful as Blinks are, its indisputable that Nurse will have a much easier time hitting stationary targets with Blinks rather than moving targets.
Enter Stridor & A Nurses Calling. Stridor to better triangulate where a survivor is hiding behind obstructions, and A Nurses Calling for a ridiculously easy Blink target. And now for a way to greatly incentivise survivors to actually prioritise healing so that Nurse can set up those easier Blink targets. Thanatophobia. The global debuff was never meant to be oppressive enough that it’s purpose was to directly slow down gens. It was just meant to be enough of a nuisance to survivors that they heal to get rid of it. It’s through more regular healing that game stall for the killer is achieved through this perk, and shorter chases when used in conjunction with A Nurses Calling.
The problem with the devs having stubbornly stuck with this idea of Thana have a global debuff is that it backed them into a corner by having to be very conservative with the percentages. The higher that number gets, the less likely Thana is going to achieve its intended outcome: getting survivors healing, and the killer more frequently catching survivors out in a compromised position. Killers, you can’t have one perk have increased percentages to slow gens down longer AND keep survivors injured longer at no additional compromise, other than simply equipping this ONE perk and doing something you’re already going to be doing anyway: injuring survivors. That just goes to show you don’t care about balance at all. If you want to commit your strategy to keeping survivors injured in conjunction with Thana’s other debuffs, you need to compromise more perk slots to that with either Coulrophobia, Sloppy, or Forced Penance. Deal with it!
This recent change to Thana in regards to gen slow down is redundant. It doesn’t matter if it’s 5% per survivor, 10%, or 15%. Survivors are not meant to just be putting up with the debuff, except where they simply have no choice to because they’re not near teammates and cannot heal themselves. What DOES matter is that healing (where immediately available to injured survivors) will be way more attractive now that they’re aware Thana has no direct healing debuff. It’s your job as killer to CAPITALISE on this behaviour, and adjust your load out and strategy accordingly.
If your using Thana as a gen slow down perk, you’re playing the game wrong.
Comments
-
I mean, it's more like you're using the alternate effect of the perk and stretching it out as much as possible to cover an aspect of the game that needs work done on its core rather than constantly being dealt with by perks than "playing the game wrong", but sure. I guess that's similar enough.
13 -
They're also forgetting that you can easily stack it with Dying Light and a killer like Legion or Plague who basically always have everyone injured. Forever Freddy didn't care that Thanataphobia was ONLY 4%, but when you stacked them all together, with Dying Light, Swinging Chains and Jump Rope, it was literally impossible for Survivors to accomplish anything against a competent killer.
12 -
But even on Plague, the intention of that combo is to get survivors cleansing. Survivors thinking they’re being clever by stubbornly not cleansing when she uses Thana+DL are just giving her (almost) all the time she needs to clear all the pallets from the trial.
2 -
Oh and yeah, I’m also confident, like you, that the devs considered how Thana could be stacked before settling on 5%. They’ve been smart about this change. It’s the removal of the healing debuff that will make it more effective. Not a detriment.
3 -
Should I unlock thantophobia I got all of the other nurse teachables from the shrine and my nurse is like level 9
1 -
I mean, 4 percent ain't all that much for a removal of the healing debuff. And the fact thats its only useful on 2 killers should tell you something but ok.
6 -
Hardly worth unlocking, in my opinion.
6 -
If you want to encourage survivors to heal, and strategise around taking advantage of when they’re vulnerable while healing, then yes.
4 -
You’re claiming it’s only worth healing against 2 killers?!
And correct, 4% wasn’t particularly oppressive, BUT that’s the point. That’s why including a healing debuff made it difficult for the devs to increase the percentages. The higher the number goes if the stuck with a global debuff, the LESS likely survivors are going to bother with healing, which defeats the entire purpose of the perk.
0 -
See, I didn't forget what Thanatophobia is for... we're just not getting enough of a buff back for what we're losing. Old Thana is -4% on Gens and Healing per injured Survivor (and sabo but that almost never matters). New Thana is only -5% on Generators.
We lost half the perks effects and got back a measly 25% boost to the remaining one. That is simply not enough.
Seriously... take a game with old Thana and new Thana and lets suppose the Survivors do the exact same number of heals and generators. Do you know how many times they need to heal for Old Thana to have wasted more time than new Thana? Less than 1 time per generator. That's it. +1% was a pathetic buff for losing half the effect of the perk.
If it had been 6% I would have been cautiously optimistic. 7% would have been great. 8% would have me super excited. I'm not hating on the direction they are taking the perk. Far from it. I think it is brilliant. Making the perk not counter its counter play is fantastic and should allow the Devs to make it stronger because the Survivors can fight it and counter it (especially now that Desperate Measures exists). Here's the thing though... they practically didn't make it stronger. They made room for extra power in its power budget and just... didn't give it back.
8 -
No, im claiming those 2 killers are the main ones who clap you if you are injured. Please stay healthy against a plague or a legion and so how you could run them like any m1 killer. Its not hard. Most other killers either don't want you to heal or do not give one if you do. For example lets use your freddy example. He literally easily clap pubs easily without thana, he doesn't need it to have great success. The reason its so strong on legion and plague is this
Legion- his power is literally to make you injured, if you constantly healing against him without healing perks its gonna suck because he will keep making you injured.
Plague- if you keep cleansing against her to stay healthy you just give her the best projectile in the game
6 -
Prior to the PTB patch notes, I would have said yes. It is the only semi decent perk to slow down generators specifically without dipping into teachables from DLC killers (paid or free). Now though... nah. The changes look beyond pathetic.
Course if you already have either Pop or Ruin + Undying or Surge you definitely don't need it. Unless you really like playing Legion... then get it. It'll probably still be OK on them.
2 -
You're forgetting that DL gives a survivor an insane healing speed boost,so your thana is going to do almost nothing all game when you run them together now.
3 -
You’re still not getting it...
1 -
They’re specifically talking about Thana+DL on Plague, making The Obsessions boost to altruism redundant.
0 -
I am getting it plenty.
I literally said I in theory like what they did with the perk. I just hate the numbers they went with... because its overall effect on the match WILL be weaker. Much weaker. On a perk that wasn't overly strong to begin with.
How are you not getting that part? In theory, the Thana change is great. In practice, I'm nearly certain they botched the numbers.
3 -
Thank god there is another person besides me who thinks the perk did not get nerfed. Made it so its easier to heal but more hard to do other tasks aka long gen repair.
3 -
You're also ignoring the other reason to use current Thana. To give you even more time when the Survivors start healing if Sloppy isn't enough for you. Nobody wants to stay injured vs Deathslinger. Double that if they figure out half way through the mad lad is running Tinkerer and Survivors are literally getting stabbed or shot with no warning.
1 -
I dunno about you or anyone else on the forums, but I can see a very clear solution to the problem at hand. And the Devs will hate it:
Unstack slowdowns and buff them individually.
5 -
who cares if it stacks with other perks? That just means at least 2 out of 4 perks are centered around injuring and slowdown. Heaven forbid.
If they're using Thana/Dying/Sloppy.. that means they aren't running Tinkerer/Ruin/Undying that everyone whines about now
Can i get a list of acceptable killer perk loadouts please?
6 -
What you said isn't mutually exclusive. It could both be nerfed and moved towards an intended effect.
1 -
If they did this, it would almost certainly be worse then what we can achieve now so the game won't really slow down when used. I don't call +5 seconds a slow down.
1 -
It was already pretty "meh" outside of a few niche anti-heal builds; and it basically required sloppy butcher along side it. AND even then it also required the killer to apply a ton of pressure to the survivor team to get any meaningful value.
I could not even find a spot for it on my forever freddy (Corrupt,BBQ,Pop,Sloppy), which I feel like is the main thanta offender in most people's minds.
Now it's going to be even more niche. Limited to like plague, legion, bubba, maybe billy.
1 -
The problem is where killers are placing the value. Thana is meant to encourage and help predict survivor behaviours that the killer is MEANT to be using to their advantage. It’s not, and was never intended to be a DIRECT gen slow down perk, but an INDIRECT stall perk, and a means to help shorten chases by downing survivors mid heal.
0 -
I've seen it as a snowball perk myself. You get to 3-4 stacks and then everything just takes so long that you start outpacing the survivors with your downs and they never have the time to heal. But if you can't apply enough pressure you get a measly 4-8% slowdown and that's the risk you take using it.
It will be a totally different perk after these changes. And definitely for the worse in my eyes. I will probably just put it on plague / legion and call it a day.
0 -
I don't know who you are to say that "the entire purpose" of Thana is to make survivors heal. Even if that's the case (which its not afaik) Thana was, and is still trash.
The reduction is so little it should never affect your decision to heal or not. Good survivors will still ignore it for gens like before. Good survivors will ignore it and decide if they need to heal depending on the situation, just like before. Now it just doesn't even slow down healing at all. Thana never did anything strong enough to change decisions unless you didn't know better. At least before it slowed people down the little bit when they decided to heal.
Its nerfed unless you're playing plague.
On that note Plague doesn't even care about the "encourage to heal" factor since people stay injured, so saying that's "the entire purpose" is wrong, otherwise that was a wasted perk slot on every Plague ever. So I guess for her gens will take a whole 4 seconds longer than before.
Post edited by MrPenguin on4 -
It was a niche perk anyway, sometimes used as anti-heal support. Now it's basically a legion perk, even on plague it's most times better to create pressure with an apple or your baseline fountain.
1 -
I've forgotten nothing. I'm aware that DL gives an Altruism bonus, but it also wasn't the main point.
If you also put it on Plague, there is quite literally no downside.
0 -
I wasn't strictly. I mentioned Plague because her vomit always keeps survivors Broken unless they cleanse, nullifying altruism anyway, and Legion as people either heal and make the fame last forever or stay injured and are always easier to down.
It was that the killers who WANT those perks don't care about healing.
0 -
People also seem to forget that they also added totem clean reduction.
I can agree it's not a big buff. A marginal buff at best. But people who say it got nerfed just suck at math or never bother to calculate it
0 -
That IS Thana’s original purpose. It was designed with Nurse in mind, and how it works on other killers is an afterthought.
0 -
Exactly. If a survivor finds themselves injured against Undying, Ruin, and Thana, and they have self care, and the killer is doing a good job of getting survivors off of gens, that survivor is going to heal before attempting to touch totems.
0 -
If they did that, Thana could be 10% per injured survivor
3 -
But again, that wouldn’t matter except in instances where survivors have no choice to. The point is if survivors are near teammates, or can heal themselves then they go “we need to get rid of Thana”.
The killer is meant to expect this behaviour, and predict where survivors will do this, to try and achieve easier downs than persisting with long chases.
0 -
It's definitely more of a nerf than a buff, with use on Plague being the only real exception. Which it's still probably not good enough to run on Plague over Surge or Pop.
6 -
That isn't exactly true. If I see Thana, I don't ever actually care. It doesn't really do a whole lot. An extra 10 seconds in a solo gen on average? Sure, whatever. It only becomes dangerous when stacked with other slowdowns, in which case you still save more time by not healing.
In order for a perk to force survivors to take the time to heal, it needs to make it worth their while. I'm not missing the point of the perk, the perk is missing its own point. It should be strong to make people feel weak, and it's teeny tiny buff just doesn't do that.
5 -
The time difference just isn't enough to actually make people heal. Maybe once EVERYONE is injured, but until then it's not making enough of a difference I think. Buff should've been a bit bigger.
1 -
This is why is use the term “trick” as well as encourage. The devs still need to take into consideration stacking, and when survivors simply can’t heal.
0 -
I don't think that's accurate. There's plenty of perks, old and new that have nothing to do with the killers functionality from whence they came. For example Wraith and Shadowborn, Billy and Lightborn, Legion and Iron Maiden, Blight and Dragons grip ect. Nurses power also has nothing to do with being injured. Her perks have that theme of revolving around injuries, but its just a theme. The same way hag has a bunch of hexes. If anything, Nurses perks are centered around keeping survivors injured since that's when all of them are at their strongest, not for them to heal.
You also didn't address anything else.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
Probably a pretty good build for Legion. Ruin already was pretty good on them with all the mending and they usually have no problem keeping atleast 2 people injured
Add in distressing and then even ganging up on a generator doesn't work. As long as you can keep the pressure and don't overcomit to a chase i think you could really have survivors in a chokehold.
Especially concidering that getting hit by feral frenzy deletes all progress you have on a totem so your mobility actually matters before the year long cooldown sets in
0 -
Just so I get my facts straight thanatophobia got a 1% increase in addition to removing it from effecting healing at all right?
Im not going to actively search for my teammates to heal them instead of gens when the penalty is 5% instead of 4%. A 1% increase just isn't enough incentive to do that.
The penalty should be like 7-8% and then maybe Ill start using empathy more. Until then thanatophobia just got weaker.
9 -
Not really weaker. the extra healing time just got shifted to the gens. it's not really a nerf or a buff it's more of a sidegrade, unless you value the extra totem slowdown then it's a buff.
Problem with that is that you bassicly bring forever freddy back if you increase the percentage to much.
They just need to make it that it can't stack with other slowdown effects and then they can make it more powerfull
3 -
If it doesn't matter if it's 5, 10 or 15, if that's really what you're going with, then why not just make it 10. I think we'd all be happy with 10. It would also incentivize them healing over doing a gen, which according to you is the point.
1% buff is not good enough to justify removing the healing aspect.
3 -
The Problem is that 5% still isn‘t that great, its not quite worth using up a perk slot for that. I think what bhvr should do is buff thana to 6%, and then make it not Stack with other action speed debuff effects.
0 -
I understand the purpose of the perk and its even more obvious than it was after its changes. my problem and many others is that the 1% increase is total crap and the time survivors spend healing when they were affected actually wasted more time then how it is now.
2 extra seconds per heal - old thano
3.2 extra seconds per gen (12.8 to 16) - new thano
thats when everyone is injured and having all survivors heal wastes 8 seconds while having 1 or 2 survivors doing gens wastes 3.2 to 6.4 more seconds after the buff IF they are not working together.
Its very clear that the change barely affected the perk so its still bad. an extra 1%(max 24%) or 2%(max 28%) would make this perk usable on all killers instead of 2 and before someone replies im taking about balance not "fun" idc if it increases gen times and ruins your "fun" go heal.
2 -
Yes I always felt the purpose of Thana was to punish survivors for not healing. Either they slow down on gens or spend time healing instead. It's win-win.
2 -
An issue I always had with Thanatophobia was that it literally means fear of death yet the effects become worse every time a survivor dies. I’m guessing it’s to discourage tunnelling people out of the game but it feels like a flat % across the board would make sense if a survivor died. Even something gimmicky like a 10% reduction of skillcheck size for each injured or dying survivor at least to me sounds like it would fit the theme of what the perk literally translates to.
0 -
Yeah I agree actually, making it not stack with other perks and then give a little more boost to the percentage would probably be the way to go.
1 -
Thanks for the idea, I'll be sure to remember that the next time I'm pissed off.
After the patch comes out, no doubt.
0 -
I thought I made it clear that it’s not to be expected that survivors will randomly run about trying to find teammates. Just in instances where a survivor has a medkit, self Care, or are already near teammates, healing won’t be delayed.
0
