Dodging killer powers in Dead by daylight
So, hypothetically speaking, if killer played perfectly meaning he's using his power to 100% of it's potencial aiming perfectly in the middle of the survivor on all tiles having enough distance to reach survivor with his power, which killers can you actually dodge and avoid getting hit ?
Also I'm discussing dodging that involves as little predictions as possible for example - nurse is on you, you just turned around the wall and she needs to predict where you are on the other side of the wall without seeing you, same with PH or huntress predicting pallet drop for M1 or windup etc. None of that. Basically things that require any amount of RNG or game knowledge to predict. So the cases like dodging huntress hatched in the open without LOS blockers or demo's shred, nurse blink in the open etc.
Which killer's power you can actually literally react to at the exact moment it's used and not get hit by it ? No dodging a second early since you heard huntress start her windup but dodging exactly at the moment she releases her hatchet watching her behind you.
I know I know, it depends on how far is the killer from you but let me ask ? Is there even a killer power that you are able to dodge in the open while close (4-8m) via reacting but unable from far away (12-20+m). You always want to be as far away as possible to increase you chance to evade any killer and their power so that doesn't solve the problem of near impossible dodging (through reacting) in close distances.
There's been a lot of talk on this topic (again) in other threads so I wanted to ask you all, can you really dodge good killers using their powers extremely precisely without relying on obstacles/pallets/windows or predicting ? Since if you need any of that, then you're not really dodging but using your surroundings or game knowledge to avoid the hit through it's timing limits, not evading the actually projectiles flying at you by reacting to it.
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Is this another don't nerf deathslinger thread?
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No, I want to know people's opinions on actual dodging with reacting. I'd love to stay on that topic and avoid talking about purely slinger as much as possible. I'm far more interested in talking about all the other killers.
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It can be hard and takes years of practice to get it but if we can dodge ling range maby they can do stuff to one shots at point blank like if a bubba or Billy pins you in a corner or no escape area there saws pass though you same for baltent facecamps they can't grab or hit after a certain time
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Honestly I can think of two; Billy not back-revving and Pyramid Head.
A non-back-revving Billy will still have to travel forwards. Sure, he's really fast, but his turning ain't the best and he can be spun.
Pyramid Head's power can be used outside of zoning and animation drops, trust me. However it does have a travel time forward and some pretty obvious tells, like the big shiny red line that goes "HEY GUYS I'M AIMING HERE" so it's fairly easy to dodge.
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4 - 8 in the open: Nothing. You should be getting hit. Shouldn't be in the open anyways. Most killer abilities except for insta downs are useless in the open anyways.
12 - 20+ : Every "ranged" killer except Nurse / Deathslinger. Will caveat that you probably can't react to a Huntress fully charged hatchet.
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Technically, with dead hard or Sprint burst the survivor can dodge anything.
At 4-8 in the open it's still possible to dodge m1s due to how glitchy m1s are with the auto aim. With ranged killers if they have the perfect shot at that range you're getting hit. I think pigs lunge ability might still be dodgeable. Everything else you're getting hit.
At 12-20+ range, nurse can still suffer from a lot of glitches, including the normal m1 stuff (or so nurses have said). As for range killers depending on how far you are you could actually run out of their range if you're near the limit of where they're going to hit. Huntress depends on how long she's charging her power and if she's doing an arc throw or straight shot. As for other powers like Billy's chainsaw I can't tell, since I've dodged a few b4 but I dunno if those were perfect attacks. I think everything else is out of range.
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How To Dodge Slinger: No
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At max range it takes almost half a second for Deathslinger's shot to reach you (0.45s) that is reactable. The closer he gets the more unlikely you are to purely react to his shot.
Pyramid head's attack, outside of animation locks is reactable while in the open. Its very hard to purely react to because its fast. Usually prediction plays a part, but it is reactable, even up close if he commits to it instead of doing an M1.
I guess you can react to Clown's bottles at that distance? Dunno what good it does but you can. Not from up close.
You can react to Hag's traps? if you run away quickly enough you can still make her waste some time or waste pallets. Unless she's predicting you to trigger a trap and tapping the teleport button. That could be too fast to react to.
You can maybe react to Doctor's shock. But you have to be pretty fast, its inconsistent.
I guess it's possible to react to Demo's shred at max distance? if possible its very inconsistent because its very fast.
You can literally walk out of the way of Blights attacks...which is sad really. I do mean this literally. I have seen survivors WALK out of the way of a Blights attack. Don't think this should be possible but it is. So at medium distance you can react to Blight's lethal rush. Up close its pretty much impossible, you have to predict he's gonna rush and move.
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Uhhh. I can give you counters for the killers if you want. (Or at least what I do.)
Trapper: Don't step in tall grass and be wary at loops. Don't start hopping windows etc until you're injured because if you go down then well, you were going down anyway if you didn't try to escape.
Wraith: Watch for his shimmer and start a loop to avoid the speed boost he gets uncloaking.
Hillbilly: When he revs his chainsaw for more than 2 seconds press A or S on your keyboard and turn your mouse in the opposite way to spin. That usually throws him off.
Nurse: Dead Hard the second blink when she's on top of you. Failing that use map geometry to your advantage. She has to predict you to land a hit on you, so as soon as you break line of sight pick a different way of going, but mix it up or she'll catch on.
Huntress: You can duck her hatchets and I find it more useful than juking her, but make sure not to run in a straight line away from her or she'll axe you.
Shape: There's two strats. If you're a gen jockey do not let him get stalk on you. Do whatever you can to remain behind cover. If you're the runner let him drain you completely of stalk and keep him busy. If you keep him off your jockeys he can never hit Tier 3.
Hag: When she picks someone up run around and pop as many of her traps as you can. Make sure to hold crouch when you're rescuing someone. High rank survivors will crouch off of hook and hook traps will never be a problem with strong survivors.
Doctor: Know your lockers. A lot of Docs use their static blast off cooldown and it's on a minute cooldown. If you know its been a minute and he hasn't used it and you hear the terror radius, consider getting in a locker. Alternatively run Calm Spirit, but lets be honest its real use is suppressing crows.
Cannibal: If he's on you, know your fundamentals and stay at either a loop or window. Force him to M1 you. Stay calm and don't let him catch you in the open and do not crouch in corners. If he bodyblocks you in one it's over. He can be obnoxious to hook save against but unless he's memeing they usually run BBQ and Chili. You can hide in lockers before he hooks someone to shield your aura.
Nightmare: You need a runner on your team to beat him. If someone contains Freddy and the others do gens he's not a big deal. It's when you let him use his power and run all over the place that he's an issue. Stay calm and just knock out gens. He's an M1 killer in the end.
Pig: Fundamentals. Her traps add RNG. Usually my team finishes gens before I get unhooked at high ranks, but if your team is being slow consider searching 1 box and then doing a gen, then searching the remaining 3 boxes. The idea is to slow down the game, don't let her do that.
Clown: Play liberally at loops. He'll slow you down a lot and chew through defenses faster than other killers. If you're the runner rely on vaults more than pallets, but use what you have to.
Spirit: This one's tough. At easy ranks just loop her like normal. At high ranks she will expect you to try to mindgame her. Play a little stupid and you'll be rewarded, but mix it up. Something I say against Spirit often is "That shouldn't have worked."
Legion: Split up. 99% of the time they're running Discordance and will run over to your generator if you work with a teammate and utilize their power. They can see you in a locker too, so just run away. Otherwise rely on fundamentals.
Plague: Healing yourself highlights the fountain in white to her, so if she's paying attention she'll know where you are and reinfect you. If you only see one or two spots to heal yourself, go ahead and do it because the fountains reset and stops her from saving up corruption (though she will get one charge instantly, but just hide it out) Don't take risks with this killer. Also avoid infecting your generator. If she patrols she'll expect a generator being worked on to have green smoke. If she hits it and pukes on it and you don't touch it til its done being infected, she'll think the gen has been abandoned. She probably won't be back before you finish that generator.
Ghostface: Don't reveal him. It's a trap and it reveals your location. Look down at the ground if you're not on a gen, and keep an eye on your surrounds if you are on one. If he stalks you and makes you one shot...it's not a big deal, just loop him until you outlast it. The biggest time Ghostface is a threat is before you know what killer you're facing. Always assume you're vs. Ghostface and play accordingly.
Demogorgon: He's not that tough. At vaults and windows he will want to use his shred. Juke at the window to make him miss and it'll give you enough time for another circle around. Portals are okay but as long as you keep an eye on it it's not a big deal.
Oni: Don't get hit lol. Okay so someone got hit or you're using no Mither. No big deal. Treat him like Hillbilly. He'll either know how to use his stick or he won't. A lot of them use Infectious Fright. Either stay out of his terror radius or run calm spirit.
Deathslinger: Don't let him get into a position where he can fire at you. Hug walls and always have something between you and him. Pre-drop a pallet if you have to. He can shoot you all he wants but he has to touch you to down you. He didn't wash his hands after using the bathroom don't let him get ya.
Executioner: You know how with Huntress she'll ready a hatchet to hit you as your animation locked in the drop, so you just do another loop instead? Same difference. Executioner is just faster than her with infinite ammo. No big deal.
Blight: If you hear a moth hitting a lamp while you're working on a gen, the Blight is your killer. Run towards him on first charge, run diagonally or into the open on all subsequent charges. If he has nothing to bounce off of then he's locked in one direction. Dead Hard on the last charge and get to a safe loop during his stun.
Calm Spirit, Detective's Hunch and Dead Hard counter 90% of the current meta in this game, but ya didn't hear that from me.
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Wow I appreciate the effort but I'm discussing dodging purely based of reactions, not counterplay. Your post isn't really on that topic.
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Sorry. I guess there really isn't much to say though. You either vault, drop a pallet or try to spin the killer if he's right behind you. Usually at that point you just accept the hit and sprint burst to reset and try again or go down.
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I though as much but people like to always make arguments that when they can't dodge something (usually slinger since he's the hot topic when it comes to dodging) by reacting, it means their imput is meaningless so I was wondering if they can tell me what is so dodgeable about other killers. So far, I can agree that billy and PH (possibly blight) when used in the open and in range (but not in M1 range) can probably be dodged via reacting but other then those probably nothing else.
The way I see it, if you allow killer to get close and in range of his power that's used perfectly, almost every single killer will earn a hit with it unless out out-predict them (if it's even possible in that scenario) which is also case for all the killers. I just can't grasp where is this dodging logic coming from, you're either in range of a power or not. If you are, good killer will earn a hit pretty much always.
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The thing about this game is if you're in a chase for long enough it's set up so you'll eventually get hit running from tile to tile unless you can make the killer drop bloodlust by breaking a pallet or getting out of chase. Your goal as a runner is to waste as much time as possible, not to survive the chase. (However, if you do survive the chase and your team happens to open the door and bodyblock for you, that's one of my favorite things in this game)
Nurse and Spirit are the easiest to flat out dodge just because they need to predict for their hits and they're being piloted by humans.
You do have some wiggle room with Huntress and Deathslinger but accuracy is on them, not you. That's why survivors don't like it.
If it's an M1 killer and he's right up on you and you fail your spin, you get hit.
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I mean, if a killer and survivor are both playing perfectly , then who should come out on top?
The killer right?
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Thank You so much I had some trouble with some killers.
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It's not even the fact that slinger's power is unreactable whilst it's being fired it's the fact that the windup is completely unreactable and virtually nonexistent. You can't react to a Huntress hatchet at point blank but you know she's got it ready because A)there is an obvious noise and B) There is a windup animation. She's also slower whilst aiming. Demo has a small start-up and cooldown, and moves slower than survivors whilst he's charging of the abyss. Pyramid head is just...weird. he has a start-up animation, a reactable ranged attack and a cooldown after, but he's not slower than the survivor during any of these parts of his power which is why he has the whole "hold M2 to outplay" lose-lose playstyle. Slinger has none of this. No startup animation, unreactable ranged attack and no cooldown from faking his power which is why it's so much more annoying.
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Err
For huntress and deathslinger i do believe you can react and dodge at a long range (15 meters and above), and its harder to dodge a huntress hatchet cuz hitboxes lol
Both killers have the same projectile speed (fully charged hatchet)
The reason for that is all projectiles have travel speeds, not hitscan, so basically killers have to PREDICT your next position, the further the distance the harder the prediction, and you can pretty much change your position to somewhere else that is safe
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Nurse main here. You don't predict to get hits.
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It depends on the projectile and distance. Each long-range power has a travel speed and trajectory that depend on the killer. Clown and Huntress, for example, throw their things in an arc, but at different angles. Doctor hits in a cone, Executioner hits in a line, and so on.
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That's all nice and all but I was asking which killer's power are survivors actually able to dodge. Even the example just point out limits on other killers powers but don't tell anything about the actual dodgine at all.
I never really saw anyone who is able to reliably dodge hatchets from a good hutress with pure reactions nor dodging demo's shred from reasoable distance when it's already used. I don't really care about the limits since those just lower consistency at which power can be used, not the actual reaction based interaction from survivors. You aren't really outplaying huntress's hatchet throws if you're constantly looping high wall loop with a good pallet that forces huntress to guess if you'll pre-throw or keep running, you're abusing her limits to evade the scenario where you would need to dodge.
Slinger pushes the consistency at which he can shoot higher then any other killer in the game but that has nothing to do with how dodgeable his harpoons are, their speed is what makes them extremely hard to dodge, not the windup. With bigger windup, he'll just lose some of the consistency but his harpoons will stay exactly as undodgeable as they were before, like most other killer powers from close to mid range.
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If we don't account for predictions or obstacles it's almost always killer's power. From what I've seen here, the few exceptions (in the open while not extremely close) would probably be hillbilly, PH and possibly blight. since their power's either can't turn as easily once they're used or have a delay making them most likely to be reactable.
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Most killers don’t have ranged attacks or lunges, so I’m guessing you’re only interested in the ones that do (e.g. Freddy just hits with basic attacks)
Huntress - It’s very hard if not impossible to dodge a thrown hatchet. You can see her winding up and go for cover but actually dodging a hatchet that’s in the air is tricky
Deathslinger - Same as above. It’s also tricky to see that he’s about to shoot. On the other hand the shot isn’t a guaranteed down from across pallets, etc, and takes 5 seconds to reel in so that works against him.
Nurse - Can’t actually dodge her blink attack, you can see she is getting ready to blink though and juke to hopefully avoid where she planned to blink to.
Demo - The Shred can be dodged, at least at longer range.
Pyramid Head - Shot can be dodged, you can see the rectangle it’s going to hit and sidestep out of it if you’re quick enough
Blight - Lethal Rush can be sidestepped
Clown - Gas cloud can’t be sidestepped if the bottle lands at your feet, it’s too wide an area
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And? Nobody who knows what they're talking about is talking about dodging Deathslinger's shots, they're saying the entire process of him ADSing and shooting is completely unreactable and cheap as #########. Really wish the people who defend Deathslinger would actually understand that and at least show that they understand that even a little.
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The thing is, people complain then can't react and dodge his shots but that's the case for almost all other killers who use their power optimally as well. Only thing about slinger that's different is that he's faster at it and does it more often at the cost of having nothing else. That however doesn't stop you from predicting him as he does to you but people just dismiss it since it's hard and more in favor of slinger then them.
Reacting in DBD works mainly on M1 killers in loops with vision who move slowly to the point where you can just react to them. Any killer with power that affects chasing requires you to predict killer's use of it, not react to it with only a few exceptions.
Adding windup to his power won't add anything to his counterplay from side of survivors, he just won't be able to shoot as often making him the worst killer in DBD unless he gets buffs to compenase for such big nerf which leads us again to the point where he has enought time, speed or whatever for the first nerf to not matter since his spears still can't be dodged once you're in their reach. You'll still need to predict him once in range even if you add windup or further cooldowns, slowdowns.
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