Is "Spine Chill" and "Premonition" too powerful against stealth killers?
I'm asking this because Spine Chill and Premonition can bypass Undetectable. Rendering it completely useless against perks that have it as it's main focus, and by extension,
Tier 1 Myers, Wraith's Cloak, Pig's Crouch, and Ghost face's stealth mode.
Does Undetectable need a buff? or does Spine chill + Premonition need a nerf? (I'm thinking the former because people will protect Premonition.)
Is "Spine Chill" and "Premonition" too powerful against stealth killers? 116 votes
47 votes
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Comments
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Yes. (Many changes to either or both effects.)
Premonition itself isn't that bad, because you don't know if the killer is coming for you or if they will stay in that general direction. However with Spine Chill, you'll always know the killer is coming for you unless they look away. And even then, that is NOT fun counterplay. Being forced to look sideways when approaching just to counter one perk is both annoying and potentially detrimental if something happens where you would've otherwise been looking.
5 -
Yes. (Many changes to either or both effects.)
Couldn't have said it any better, lad.
2 -
Yes. (Many changes to either or both effects.)
This is something I've been thinking for a long while now actually to be totally honest. Spine Chill and Premonition uniquely affect Stealth killers far more than any other killer on the roster because that is their entire ability, the element of surprise is what makes them fun to play as and scary to play against.
Stealth killers as a broad category generally don't need direct perk counters like these (especially since the devs are moving away from perk concepts that single out one [and by extension multiple killers] with their rework of slippery meat) considering for the most part they are either generally (arguably) well balanced to begin with (Ghostface & Myers) or are on the weaker end of tier lists (Pig & Wraith) such that perks like these are straight up unnecessary. This, on top of the fact that SWF is a thing, where players can accurately make call-outs if they see a stealth killer walk past or head in a particular direction.
I think instead what should happen is Spine Chill should be nerfed so that it no longer trump's stealth abilities. Why do I say this? Well comparing the two, there is quite literally no reason to run Premonition so long that Spine Chill exists, Spine Chill quite simply is more accurate, with no cooldown it lights up activating at any time that the killer is looking in your direction. Combined with your own personal intuition about the map you're on, where you saw the killer last, or where he / she is most likely to be, it is impossible to be caught unaware with this perk on. Not to mention it provides other really nice abilities as well like faster action speed (repairing, healing, etc.), and vault speed as well. It's powerful and more importantly, it's passive.
Whereas premonition is far more specific since you must be the one looking in the direction of the killer, it is also limited providing only an audio cue, and then is subsequently put on cooldown for a decently lengthy period of time before it can be used again. Beyond this you're not given anything else and have to interpret what that means, the audio cue could just be popping off because the killer was passing close by, or because he's heading in your direction. Whereas this intuition isn't necessary for spine chill, if it stays lit consistently for longer than about 5 seconds, you can guarantee the killer is coming in your direction, if it only flashes, you're fine to continue whatever it is you were doing. This objectively makes spine chill a far superior perk (in their current states) when it comes to information
So what this does is when Spine Chill is nerfed what this does is it levels the playing field between the two perks balancing the relationship between both. Premonition will now be the only perk survivors have access to that trumps stealth abilities, and this makes sense because it requires the survivor to perform some kind of action (correctly look in the killers direction) and has a cooldown. Now with this change there is more incentive to use premonition than before and you have to weigh the pros and cons of what you're looking for, either more passive information and increased action speeds, or "all-encompassing" information that works consistently all the time.
Why not nerf both? Well simply put: because Spine Chill is meta, and Premonition is not. To reduce the gap between the strongest perks and the weakest ones and encourage perk diversity, perks that are most frequently used should be toned down whereas those which are not should be tuned up.
And on a personal note, I say this with a bit of a heavy heart and internal conflict because Spine Chill is my mainstay perk that basically never leaves my loadout. I really don't want to see it nerfed, but at the same time I know this is reasonable and healthy for the game, pushing stealth killers up to greater levels of effectiveness, as well as generally making matches against them more interesting since now you might actually be caught by surprise for once.
8 -
Yes. (Many changes to either or both effects.)
If developers had your mindset, you'd make a god-like game, bro.
2 -
Premo is fine, but only because the cooldown for it is so ######### garbage to play with.
Spine chill is strangely strong in that way, but it also comes with the pro of being an action speed buff and you can use it in way more situations.
Premo needs a shorter cooldown.
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Yes. (Many changes to either or both effects.)
How does this translate into "does Premo or Spine Chill need to be changed to make stealth killers better?"
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Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
Just dont have it light up when you are undetectable but it should still work if survivors are oblivious (looking at you Freddy)
2 -
Yes. (Many changes to either or both effects.)
Doesn't it still work when the survivors are oblivious?
It does state that Premonition and Spine chill works when you look at the killer/killer looks at you, but says nothing about needing to hear the terror radius.
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Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
pretty much what I was going to say.
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No, it's fine. (No changes to either effects.)
Premonition isn't good.
If you suspect spine chill, walk to the gen by looking down or even better to the side, keeping the aura to the corner of your vision. That's outside the cone of detection.
For stalking killers, you need to stalk as much as possibile from a distance and only complete when you're close. Aware survivors will notice you when you're nearby regardless of spine chill, because of sound and generally scanning their surroundings.
They also don't react immediately and leave the gen just because the perk flickers for a moment. If they do, they're being super inefficent and you won the jackpot which means you can even slow down gens by simply looking at them.
Also, spine chill doesn't tell them where you're coming from. You can use this to your advantage by pathing unexpectedly so that they run into you.
Try to see the opportunities for explotative plays, instead of nerfs.
I suggest you focus on perks that need be looked at, rather than those that are decent and break the meta. Unless you just want to face the usual builds of ds, ub, dh, bt.
Sincerely,
Your former Myers main.
3 -
Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
Make Tier 1 Myers immune to both again - he's almost slower than Survivors, has no lunge, is tall and easy to see, has a noticeable audio cue when nearby (his heavy breathing) AND he cannot progress to Tier 2 without looking at Survivors and being close to them (his stalking speed decreases when far from whoever he is stalking).
There's a reason he was immune to both before; he's weak as all heck in Tier 1 and depends on his stealth to get out of it.
Every other Stealth Killer either benefits from other effects while stealthy, can cancel their stealth, or has a strong power available while stealthy.
Tier 1 Myers is just stealthy. Besides that he has nothing.
IMO Spinechill is fine against every other Stealth Killer and Premonition is too garbage to warrant nerfing.
Just revert the unnecessary Myers nerf.
Post edited by TheRockstarKnight on1 -
Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
The current form of Spine Chill is nowhere near oppressive. What is does though is further hinder some of the already pretty weak Killers, especially Ghostface and Myers.
They have no way of avoiding the perk since they are forced to look at Survivors to use their power. This takes away their only saving grace, the element of suprise, since they have barely anything to help them in chase.
While there is counterplay, in my opinion, it is riddicolous. I can barely compose myself from laughing when I see a Myers crab-walk somewhere across the map in hopes to avoid SC.
Some people claim that as soon as the icon lights up, the SC user will become a headless chicken and aimlessly sprint right into the Killers arms. I disagree. My most played Killer to this day is propably Myers but I haven´t seen this happen once, and on Survivor side, I have never encountered a Killer that was able to get the jump on me when I had SC. As a new player SC can mislead you, when you´re more experienced, this will very rarely happen apart from very specific locations like Disturbed Ward center building.
On the flipside, SC tends to be used by lazy players (like me) that crutch on it so it´s sometimes pretty easy to abuse this. Overall I think it does what it does a bit too good, and either a range reduction or some form of perk limitation would be justified given it´s strength vs ease of use.
1 -
No, it's fine. (No changes to either effects.)
The only thing I would possibly change is Ghostface not activating it while stalking. His power already has a cooldown. But even then its very minor. When I play him I just approach backwards and take the quick hit if I suspect Spine Chill.
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If killers can stalk survivors shouldn't survivors have something to counter that I thought this was about balance maybe not fair to killers but who wants to work on gens just to get one shot by no heart beat killers this game went from being able to know when the killer was coming to everybody rage quitting because a killer can shock you from almost any distance, shoot you, or sneak up on you now this game seems like it's going down hill maybe already has killers sound have cool downs on their attacks spirit shouldn't be able to face whenever she wants, I see famous YouTubers come in the game just to troll they don't even take the game serious no more because overpowered killers or people quitting I've played games were I didn't get caught by killer but since my teammate decided to quit we lost I don't like being killed because of quitting teammates, slow gens, and killers being told where every gen and gate is that should be a wasted perk slot
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Yes. (Many changes to either or both effects.)
Bup
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Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
Spine Chill is definitely problematic.
- Even completely disregarding the informational aspect of the perk, the vault speed stacking with Resilience feels insanely good.
- The informational aspect just makes it impossible to play a stealth killer, especially Myers and Ghostface.
If you're undetectable, you should be immune to detection perks.
Period.
Buff Premo's CD to compensate for that, but don't compensate Spine Chill.
3 -
Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
Spine Chill shouldn't detect Stealth Killers. It is their power and that being taken away from them is huge.
The perk itself is very strong in combination with Resilience too. Considering it also gives you a detection for every existing killer is insane. I really love using Spine Chill but I think it needs a rework.
2 -
Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
The perk isn't that strong but rather most stealth killers are weak
Generally have no mobility (Wraith with his addons maybe?), no anti-loop (They can hide their red stain at some loops I guess.) and their instadowns are not on demand (99ing doesn't count) require stalks and they lose it after a certain period of time.
Stealth and getting free surprise hits is all they have so having a perk that counters that really hurt thems and again they're not high tier killers like spirit, nurse etc
2 -
No, it's fine. (No changes to either effects.)
Sometimes, you can tell when a Survivor is running Spine Chill as a Stealth Killer.
"There's no way they should have seen me." You tell yourself. Oh but do I have a devious plan my friend.
As a Pig Main, I too have suffered with trying to deal with Spine Chill, but I've found the fool-proof way to fix this.
Kick a generator, activate your Undetectable effect and now for the special move...
Look away. That's it. Turn your back to the gen and hide behind a wall.
As soon as you hear that fool clicking away at that gen, smug and confident that their Spine Chill will always protect them... That's when you come in for the ultimate jumpscare.
1 -
No, it's fine. (No changes to either effects.)
ii dont use premonition much but spine chill is my guilt perk as a survivor and i main Ghostface as a killer and i never had any problem with killing people as Ghostface regardless of rank and i die decent enough as a survivor regardless of spine chill
0 -
No, it's fine. (No changes to either effects.)
In a way yes it is, at the same time I think it’s based off of how skilled the killer is.
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Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
Just make it so the perk doesn't highlight when the killer has the undetectable status effect. As, you know, that's their whole gimmick. and having it countered by 1 perk is way too strong.
It should still be able to work when they're not in stealth, and keep the rest of the perk the same
1 -
Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
Just make Premonition and Spine Chill as the same perk : Spine Chill with a cooldown.
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Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
No one uses Premonition, and Spine Chill is exploitable. Plus, stealth killers are bad anyways, these two perks don't contribute all that much to that.
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Yes. (Many changes to either or both effects.)
Being Undetectable should negate Spine Chill, Premonition is fine.
1 -
Yes. (Many changes to either or both effects.)
EXACTLY what i think :)
2 -
Idk, r u referring to them being used at the same time? If not then no.
0 -
Well, no but also yes. (Slight changes to either or both effects.)
If the survivor is oblivious, it should not trigger. An undetectable killer should have a reduced range on it but not fully disable it
0
