*RE-POST* Gen Speed Isn't the Issue, Gen Skill is. (has TL;DR)
EDIT: Reposting this since this post was put on hold from being published due to some editing changes and was basically buried from what I can tell. Also seeing the conversation starting to bring stuff like this up which is great! Anyways here's the post:
Seeing a huge rise of more "srsly guys we gotta talk about gen time" or "guys gen times are op pls nerf" sorry if I'm being mean but I've seen this argument parroted over and over and over again. Outside of the early game being really weak to most killers and yes there should be some kind of mechanic to help slow down the game for maybe 30 seconds until the first chase is initiated. Other than that if you just look at a normal survivor match gens are fine in terms of speed. Generator speeds are OK.
What's not OK is gen difficulty. In my honest opinion, generators as an objective is a woefully outdated mechanic in this game. Always figured that the skill checks for gens were a placeholder for what gens were going to be... then four years went by and nothing is different about survivor objectives besides some of the tools to do them. I don't like telling people what to think about something but I think it's pretty clear: Skill Checks are QTEs, and QTEs are a general skill that every gamer already knows. Literally every skill check is essentially the reloading minigame from goddamn Gears of War. Guys, the skill required to complete your objective is something that was considered a reloading mechanic not a central part of the game... While I'm not saying that these skill checks are brain dead tasks I will say that the skill required to do them is too easy. Especially when sites like this exist. At least QTEs in other games usually use more than one button to press on time. To clarify I'm not for making the QTEs harder because historically QTEs are a scourge on most game design, a placeholder for actual gameplay mechanics.
To me, doing gens needs to be more than a simple well timed button press. Among Us recently did an absolute masterclass in doing objectives. I understand that the whole "Comparing Among Us to DbD" is a really misguided argument since they are very different games. However I think comparing how they do objectives is at least comparable. In Among Us, doing your objective purposefully puts you in a somewhat vulnerable position and while yes I realize that connecting wires or swiping a card aren't the hardest things in the world, they require interaction beyond a button press and more importantly, your attention. If someone says a "but what about the super easy tasks it's just the same thing as a skill check, argument dumb!" remember that those tasks typically require you to do them three times AND move around the map in order to do them such as the trash and download minigames AND those tasks typically are longer to compensate for their easiness.
Please note I'm not saying that Among Us' minigames should be just copy and pasted into DbD but I think the idea of them is something to pursue. Obviously it's not something that can just be patched in, it'd require a huge rework, maybe even a dedicated chapter to do it. Let's take the Among Us wire connecting game as an example. Imagine instead of a circle prompting a button press you a screen with matching game of wires/buttons with a timer? If you mess up a wire, the gen explodes and regresses. If you connect all the wires within the time limit it's like hitting a great skill check and if the timer runs out, you just progress like a good skill check. Personally, I think that adding multiple little games like this to gen repairs fixes the core issues with gens in this game:
- This would mean Survivors will have to actually pay attention to generator repair and make the act actually skillful again since you'd have to pay attention to the killer's position AND the gen more presently. "But what about newbies?" Firstly, I don't want these minigames to be like one of those "five moves to mate" chess games but simple straightforward games that anyone can understand. Remember: Among Us Minigames but just a little more complex. I think also for newbies it'll be much more involving to play a little game within the game AND more importantly leads into my second point:
- It makes Survivor more interactive. I sympathize a lot with survivors who find the act of doing gens boring because it is boring. You hold a button and occasionally hit another button. For survivors with decent playtime that gets stale really quick. This at least gives you something different each match since you could get new minigames to do which is at least something more and would make survivor less of a slog. Lastly it does something to generators:
- Makes doing Gens require skill without being unfair. Survivors often face killer mains complaining about how survivor takes "no skill", how it's just running around in a circle and for dummies. That is not true. Survivor absolutely requires skill and I respect survivors who are great in chase and jukes and the like. However, I think this argument comes from the fact that while the chase is where Survivors display their skill, doing their objective requires significantly less skill. When gens go fast, it feels bad because the actual generators, the act of doing gens, is an incredibly low skill task that doesn't require much interactivity or skills besides pressing spacebar when prompted. Meanwhile, the Killer's main objective is to kill survivors, does require skill and survivors avoiding that happening requires skill but that side part of the game doesn't require that much skill. Also please don't tell me that a Killer's objective is to get people off gens. I know that's true for early game but ultimately it becomes "kill survivors" also we all seem to agree that the chase is the best, most interactive part of the game right? By implementing this change this would make gens require more interactivity and skill to do them without directly affect speed besides survivor learning curve to learning the games.
The only issue I see with the argument is maybe tournament DbD since that adds more RNG to the game but at the same time since tournaments are actually done in KYF then you could change it to say use regular skill checks or chose specifically what kinds of minigames are chosen so survivors don't feel overwhelmed by random games. Also hope I'm not feeling condescending towards Survivors since I don't want this post to be "ProOF SUvivR TaKeS NOOOooooOOO sKKKKiiilLLl!!!!" because that is NOT what I'm imply so let me be upfront:
I am a Killer Main, I rarely play Survivor. I don't find survivor gameplay as fun as Killer for me to play. I do watch Survivor players on stream and YouTube whenever I can and always try to keep an open mind whenever thinking about changes to this game since I acknowledge that I don't entirely see the full picture of this game. Yet I do think that reworking gens not by speed but by mechanics is a valid thing and would help the game for both sides. It gives Survivors a more interactive experience beyond simply the chase and I think most Killers would appreciate going against teams even ones that get gens done fast because gens actually require more than a timed button press.
I hope people like this idea and if you don't let's discuss ideas! Please don't just say "no because ___ exists". Firstly if these changes were implemented then obviously perks should be changed to accommodate for both survivor and killer. Also something shouldn't be dismissed just because something exists since it can be worked around. I know this would definitely require essentially an entire rework of core game mechanics but I believe that it would help the game in the long run. If you got a minigame idea list here! Anyways hope you enjoyed this wall of text and for hearing me out! Lots of Love ❤️
TL;DR: Basically, the mechanic or repairing generators should be reworked, personally love among us style minigames related to repairing the generator because it's not only stale gameplay but doesn't require much skill compared to survivors in a chase which is where the truly interactive part of this game is. Post a minigame idea if u like this!
Comments
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Please make a TL;DR
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Done :D
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ProOF SUvivR TaKeS NOOOooooOOO sKKKKiiilLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Spider wants skillchecks to be more involved than what they currently are.
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I read it i just think making a tl;dr would give his idea more attention
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Glad you enjoyed it lol I changed the title too but then I got slapped with a "discussion is awaiting approval message" :p
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Then u run into the problem of are the minigames too hard, too easy, too distracting or just plain take away from the horror atmosphere. It'll be a nightmare to balance.
There's also the fact that ppl need to figure out what the hell they're supposed to do for the mini game b4 the time runs out. The fact that they only get 1 try to figure it out b4 it pops and a different mini game may pop up as the next one could really mess with ppl, especially new players. That's the reason why ruin was nerfed anyways. I've seen every Among us player struggle a little bit on figuring out what to do and most of them struggled a lot on 1 or 2 tasks. If you say that the mini games would be a little bit harder than the among us tasks then ppl are going to struggle a lot more than you're making it out to be.
Another problem with this is that Dbd doesn't have a color blind mode and for whatever reason hasn't put one in even though its been asked for, while among us added one in for their mini games.
Finally, I don't think this addresses the killer side's concerns and would only serve to piss off the survivor side.
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I agree! Repairing a gen is ridiculously simple, and it needs to become more interactive so that the Survivor must pay more attention to the gen instead of it just being background noise.
This is exactly why I find Survivor gameplay boring outside of chases. Doing gens is just mind-numbing and needs to be updated.
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I think you misunderstood me? At this point DbD has pretty much shied away from the horror aspect of the game which feels like window dressing. But that's an entire discussion onto itself.
I'm not saying that if you didn't finish the task before the timer went down it would just not grant you a great skill check boost to progress, it wouldn't completely close the minigame or reduce your progress. There wouldn't be a time limit for doing the actual task so a survivor can take all the time they want to complete the minigame and if they wanted to do a new one they could let go of the gen maybe and randomly get a new one? I never meant for the minigames to be a lot harder just take maybe more time rather than say pressing a download button.
Agreed, I wouldn't dream of asking them to include this without a colorblind mode which they should just add to this game because it's really terrible that color blind people don't have accessibility options.
If the minigames functioned how you were saying then yes I would agree with you but since they don't I still say they'd be positive to both sides but you're definitely entitled to your opinion!
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