do you think OoO is ok?
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Okay then.
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Alert is the better solo perk, but the issue is the permanent vision in groups.
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Oh, gods, no. Not even for a solo player. It's just too much info, and too much of a head start, with no real downside. My teams escape rates go up every time I equip this perk, and I'm solo.
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Due to the maps layout, the obsession can infinitely run away from you and you can never catch up to them as you cannot cut them off and due to the 2 staircases and 1 secret passage the map contains, its almost impossible to catch up to them without losing every generator
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Yes, SWF is the problem not OoO. If SWF would just get taken care of maybe the game can finally be balanced for all the solo queue players (both killer AND survivor).
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As a solo survivor, I find it quite fun to use paired with no mither, for a good meme build
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I think OoO would work better as a perk that forces the survivor to give more than they take. For example, OoO could be a toggleable perk where for every 20 seconds you allow the killer to see your aura you gain a token, up to 3 lets say. Each of these tokens you spend gives you 10 seconds of the killer's aura at any distance.
With 3 other teammates you could easily just get those 20 second periods out of the way while the killer is chasing someone else, it'd allow you to get information on the killer when you needed it without it being constant and it would mean the killer wouldn't be under constant observation from SWF.
It'd still retain a similar functionality but I reckon this would work better.
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It should be banned in SWF and not work on stealth moded killers.
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you can always stay on the inside and on the opposite side of the map to the killer and you just have to look were they are and just hold W and run around in a square, effectively making you uncatchable
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It's the most overpowered perk in the game on both sides. It offers huge utility (that I and many others touched upon in the other thread) and potential and has little to no counter play.
The only real counter play is blindness that outside of object and slugging builds is almost useless!
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No.
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OoO only OP is a SWF of 3 or more that are well organized.
A team with poor communication renders OoO obsolete, even in a 4-Man SWF.
Unfortunately, the game’s been out too long, there’s far too many media videos and “how-to” content that literally leaves nothing you can’t learn about the game from actual gameplay. This of course, leading to my premature opinion that the majority of teams using it will be quite effective with it.
For soloQ, balanced perfectly.
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actually without OoO you can only give vague information on the killer such as if he is heading a certain direction or is in a certain area and that ends when you dont have sight on the killer. OoO allows for you to give detailed information constantly regardless of where you are other than inside the TR and thats a big difference. a great example is if the killer is looping your friend and you tell your friend every move the killer makes such as moon walking or faking out. A simple word such as "reverse or turn" can tell your friend to go the other way and that wastes a lot of the killers time. what makes OoO brokenly OP is the information it provides to a swf and how its used with how broken it is corresponding to how skillful the user is at providing information and their looping skills to waste time if they get chased.
with OoO you can always tell you team the killers position at all times which can be used for even higher coordination to the point where if the killer goes for anyone other than the OoO providing that the OoO is giving constant information it allows for survivors to leave area's or get to loops before the killer can even see them.
If your not good at looping you dont run the perk meaning if your good and plan to waste time for your team as they do gens the killer is screwed unless they outplay you until you die which on certain maps like Ormond is extremely hard. in a way if you plan on your team winning and not individual survival this is the best perk for that and because getting chased gives a lot of points and even emblem score the survivor often wins anyway in terms of points/pips.
against stealth killers this perk works like a constant premonition and if you have map knowledge its not hard to figure out the killers general location. sure on some maps it is pretty bad against stealth killers like in The Game but on most maps simply knowing the direction of the killer is enough to spot them fast enough to get to a loop. stealth killers are also pretty bad in a chase so a good survivor with OoO can just take the initial hit if they fail to spot the killer fast enough/guess if he is coming and then just loop normally and waste a ton of time.
the perk is fine if its on a solo survivor but the existence of swf makes this perk brokenly OP so it has to be changed with the existence of swf in mind so it can't be so abusable. the fact that it destroys trapper, hag, and freddy alone justifies it to be changed.
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The only time it’s broken is with a coordinated swf. I mostly play GF so OoO bothers me far less than most.
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Yeah tell Trapper players about it :P
Nah jk glad your main Killer is less affected! It´s extremely rough for almost every other Killer.
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The only two killers that are going to be affected to any real degree by a solo player with OoO is Hag and Trapper. Which is fine. There are perks that counter certain killers. Spinechill counters stealth killers. It’s only broken when a swf is using it and using it well.
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dont forget freddy, once your in dream word you have constant information and he can't even mind game you and you even see him place snares so playing safe at pallets is ridiculously easy.
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Sure, I agree. I wouldn´t even mind Object in it´s current form as Trapper if used by a solo player honestly. Contrary to SC, there´s no counterplay to that though, but the oppressive nature of Object only ever shows in a SWF. I hope more people give their feedback about Object in Feedback and Suggestions, the mods seem to believe the issue is more likely to be noticed there. Maybe it will even convince a particular DEV that there´s more to this than escape rates of a single user.
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then let the OoO tell the rest if you go literally anywhere other than to the OoO user so all other survivors always get a massive head start in a chase before you even see them. -thinking of the bigger picture here
thats what a good OoO swf does so unless your a high mobility killer and even then you are always at a massive disadvantage until the OoO is dead.
a perk that gives a whole team constant information with no actual counter play with a downside for only one of the survivors and its isn't even that bad is not ok or balanced regardless of how uncommon it is to go against.
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And how exactly do you propose they "fix" SWFs? Force the game to close if your mic gets activated? Stop people from playing on teams?
Doesn't it make more sense to nerf the perk that gives teams unlimited map info, than to try to find some way to stop people from using mics on teams? Honestly, killers should just get a speed buff or something if they queue into a swf, or at least some bonus bloodpoints. But that's really besides the point I'm trying to make.
How would you fix SWF, and how would that be easier than just making OoO less obnoxious?
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I get your point but... there are two "hidden staircases", the one with the crumbled concrete. Which is on a classroom.
And the other behind breakable walls that is on the bathroom.
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they wont help you cut off the survivor you literally just have to keep yourself on the opposite side of the school and there are no good ways to cut the survivor off. that is the best map in the game for a OoO user.
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Sometimes the easier solution is the least permanent. A band-aid where stitches are necessary.
I propose giving debuffs to groups larger than 2. This can include a 15% gen speed decrease, an increase of gen regression when a gen is regressing by 50% for three man and 100% at 4 man, giving a dying light functionality where the random 4th gets an action speed bonus while the swf gets a slight action debuff, and/or survivors aren’t allowed to use the same perks on more than 2 survivors
Just minor changes to swf w/o sacrificing quality of life for solo queue.
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this is about midwich not lerys and its not about callouts its about the way midwich is designed that allows you to always stay far away from the killer with them almost never catching you
im not saying its bad cause of callouts and stealth killers and trap killers and all of that i cba to get into all that but specifically for midwich
this is the layout, the main hallways work as a square and have 2 sets of stairs in the corners with two entrances to the courtyard on opposite ends. this is where OoO comes in, since there is no way to cut off the survivor that is sat at the end of the map other than run in a square chasing them, with OoO you can see which direction of the square they are moving and constantly reposition to make it so that they cant catch them without spending countless minutes chasing them in a square
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Survivors always have a head start. It's called your terror radius. That's unless you're playing a Stealth killer, most of will be undetectable anyway. The thing is, survivors often choose to stay at a tile, instead of using their head start. If a good OoO team has used that information against you, so you can never get into a chase with them, then you're pretty unlucky. No one plays like that unless they're pretty competitive and want to win at all costs, at which point they paid for their escape with a bunch of boring matches.
The point is, people calling out your location with OoO doesn't change much.
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Otzdarva did an entire video about it. He's godly as Killer. If even HE hates OoO, maybe we should all take note.
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My man! You must be fun at parties!
Seriously though, sorry to burst your bubble, but you're the problem, not the solution. Also, unless they're an absolute potato, a person using OoO usually wants to get chased, so by trying to make their game 'unfun' you're actually giving them exactly what they want 😉
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Unless you play Trapper that is. Or as you described they use object to add a massive headstart to every chase. It´s not extremely common, but it happens, and when a good team uses object well, it´s extremely OP vs many Killers.
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Yeah, it does counter trapper, but there are plenty of perks that counter specific killers' kit, so OoO isn't any different here - e.g. DH vs nurse, iron will vs spirit and so on. It's pretty annoying, but there are plenty of offenders in that category.
On your second point - a lot of things in this game are OP. Thing is, people actively choose not to use them in that way, because it makes their own game boring - just a few examples: using OoO to give your team a head start, using iri heads as huntress, 99ing sprint bursts, 1st hook mories, keying out of hatch at 1 gen left, 'forever' killer builds and so on - the list could go on.
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None of your examples are counters to the extend Object is against Trapper though. Not even close, man.
The rest you mentioned is kinda pointless here, since we´re talking Object and not Iri Head, for example.
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that argument is ridiculous, good survivors will literally do gens in your face if that will get the gen done and certain killers have smaller TR's or high mobility so they will normally see you before you hear them. calling out where the killer is headed so the survivor can move early does have a massive impact on how a chase would have went and while you can argue that this can still be done without OoO its undeniable that OoO makes this way more easier, common, and consistent because you always know the killers actions regardless of line of sight.
Even if your a killer who can activate undetectable at will the perk is still good as you basically have a constant premonition and with map knowledge its not hard to narrow down the killers location or even just spot them before they get to you. also with OoO its not a question of "this sort of way its used isn't common" its how it can be used regardless of any in game factors because all thats required to use it to its best is being good at communicating which anyone can get better at because its not an in game skill.
lastly a good swf with OoO changes a lot of things as you wont ever get the jump on someone without playing as 1 of 4 stealth killers who are so mediocre that they loss to a good swf anyways. again its not about how its commonly used its how it can be used depending on the communication skills of its user which is not an in game factor that depends on skill. there isn't a way to defend this perk without trying to make it seem less strong then it is which you tried to do and there is PLENTY of proof that its broken if you simply use logic to determine its potential usage and compare the benefits to any other survivor perk and look at how easily that can be preformed by SWF groups. the answer is as long as whoever uses it is good at communication using OoO to its fullest isn't to difficult to set up you just need the right players which is not an in game factor used to decide balance. therefor the argument of its not often used like that often isn't valid because you can set this up before the match starts so how effective the perk is is entirely up to how you prepared before hand. its not a situational thing like DS being used in a locker or Mettle of men activating after getting protection hits you dont need to do any in game actions for this perk to work at its best just set up work before hand and non indoor map.
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that's like saying oh a plane can crash but it doesn't happen a lot so that makes it okay!
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In my eyes there are things you are just wrong about, btw im also a red rank killer for about 3 years with close to 8k kills and over 1700 hours. I dont feel like trying to address everything inside a paragraph normally so just address these points.
- not knowing the exact location of the killer and how to call that out isn't relevant because it depends on the communication skills of its user and not being able too call the killer out is really only hard in indoor maps which there are few of. a player can simply get better at communicating and set up a good team before a match starts for this perk to be at its best. this addresses your first two paragraphs which is just dependent on the users skill at communicating so these things like calling out moon walking with 1 quick word can be done.
- against stealth killers this perk is only bad in indoor maps which are in the minority of maps and its very good against them in more open maps like cornfields. at best the stealth killer which there are only 4 of will land a hit just like normal but then if a survivor is good at looping pretty much none of those killers can do anything to that survivor until they get to an unsafe area assuming the user is skilled which we are so this perk isn't garbage against them however you might die from the info it gives the killer from getting chased to much but you should be able to waste enough of their time for your team to win which is what this perks goal is so you still win in the end.
- this perk destroys freddy tf you mean lol. you can literally see freddy place snares so they only help if he has pre set snares which he only has a few he can place and it doesn't always give you a hit. against freddy its easy as hell to play safe at any pallet that allows it so im just gunna say your wrong about that. as for Hag which im a hag main it does destroy her because they see where you set the trap and can trigger any of them at max distance and turn around which doesn't get you the hit unless its super unsafe which then they don't bother with it, if they have a flashlight your mega screwed. they can also call out where the majority of your traps are and your team and do the gens in that area or just ignore/stay away from that area and leave a gen far away before risking doing a gen in her web. it doesn't matter how often she can set the traps unless she has more than 6 ready and an OoO user will just follow you and destroy them which they should do because the hag is screwed unless they tunnel the OoO, again im a hag main who has gone against this a good swf with OoO is just not beatable for her unless she camps and gets lucky. she simply cant start a chase and then use her pre-set traps to quickly end them with reliability unless a majority of her traps are set or they are in really good spots and haven't already been disarmed.
- doesn't matter how rare it is you can set it up with ease and time before a match starts, that argument simply isn't valid because it doesn't depend on any in game factors. here's a comparison how often do you see a god nurse? they are still around and are undoubtable the best killer but they are rare AF so does that mean nurse isn't strong/the best? you could say that the difficulty of nurse is what makes her being the best killer in game to borderline OP but here's the thing. OoO doesn't require actual mechanical skill, to use this perk to its best in terms of info you just need to be good at communicating which in honesty unless you are shy or something thats easy AF and you can get good at call outs with just a little bit of practice compared to the hundreds of hours nurse gods have put into nurse to get good at her.
again my main points are these, the perk is good depending on how good the user is at communicating so calling out more difficult things is a possibility, it doesn't matter how rare it is because every aspect not including map(but it can be) can be pre set up to use the perk at its best, stealth killer have a slightly higher advantage against OoO but they wont be able to quickly down them with their ability because they will be spotted and a normal chase will happen so that just helps them find you, the fact that it destroys THREE killers justifies a nerf and you can argue about freddy not caring but in honesty he just becomes clown when a loop happens because its not hard to play safe and as someone with more experience against this as a hag and i can just say you wrong and i have provided why already.
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i understand where your coming from but the issue is that there is just no in game skill involved its all up to how well you communicate along with your skill at the basics of the game. While your right its rare for the perk to be used to its best there are simply no in game factors that influence the perk other than getting a bad map which there are few of and can be prevented with offerings.
its completely up to how you prepare to use it, you can run it with your friends or create a group of try hards in relatively little time then go into a match and destroy the killer. even if you not the best at using it you still gain a massive advantage from simply having good information available for your team.
also i dont think the skill floor is that low, while its unplayable to solo's we are only looking at swf's because that is the problem with it. you don't really need teamwork just the OoO providing the information and again your right that its rare for a swf to coordinate super intensely but thats just them not utilizing the perk to its fullest. i believe the best this perk gets to a reasonable degree in terms of information provided to your team is calling out he killers plays in a chase which in would take practice between the team.
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