When does slugging go too far?

yeet

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:
Killers that slugged the third guy until they bleed out to try and 4k are just greedy A-holes. If you want to slug for a 4k, that's fine, but pick the dude up and hook them if it's clear the guy isn't going to save them. Otherwise you are just wasting time and losing points. Take the damn hook, let hatch spawn, and play it out. Stop being entitled to a 4k.

What about 3 people rush to the rescue of the last guy beside the open door?
Survivor do that all the time... isn't that the very same thing in your logic?

You slug someone until they bleed out and waste everyone's time when you should just take the hook for the points, at least, then go looking for the last guy or accept that they will get hatch. Unnecessary if it's clear no one will save the person.

By contrast, when you run up to save someone near the door, you aren't wasting time and drawing out the game unnecessarily. You are also performing a tactic that has a high chance of success if everyone plays it right. Slugging someone to get the last guy doesn't have NEARLY the same chance of success. Your only hopes of success are that 1) the guy goes for a save, or 2) you find the guy while the other is slugged.

How you even think they are the same baffles me.

your survivor bias is painfully clear

xxaggieboyxx

Went against a slugging Freddy that refused to hook people. Was not fun at all. Sloppy butcher and knock out. I get tactics but this guy did it to be a jerk. Forcing me to sit here and do nothing until I bleed out or quit 

thesuicidefox

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:
Killers that slugged the third guy until they bleed out to try and 4k are just greedy A-holes. If you want to slug for a 4k, that's fine, but pick the dude up and hook them if it's clear the guy isn't going to save them. Otherwise you are just wasting time and losing points. Take the damn hook, let hatch spawn, and play it out. Stop being entitled to a 4k.

What about 3 people rush to the rescue of the last guy beside the open door?
Survivor do that all the time... isn't that the very same thing in your logic?

You slug someone until they bleed out and waste everyone's time when you should just take the hook for the points, at least, then go looking for the last guy or accept that they will get hatch. Unnecessary if it's clear no one will save the person.

By contrast, when you run up to save someone near the door, you aren't wasting time and drawing out the game unnecessarily. You are also performing a tactic that has a high chance of success if everyone plays it right. Slugging someone to get the last guy doesn't have NEARLY the same chance of success. Your only hopes of success are that 1) the guy goes for a save, or 2) you find the guy while the other is slugged.

How you even think they are the same baffles me.

It really baffles me how you can miss the point and NOT see it is the same thing. :P
It is nothing about "stretching the match". It is about the entitlement to get either a 4k or a 4 escape.
It IS the same.

No it's not because survivors aren't necessarily saving someone because they want everyone to escape. They are saving them because they ARE FORCE TO for Benevolence points. If you hook someone at the end of the game, survivors can't just leave because they take a hit to Benevolence. They MUST save this person off the hook, at least, to not lose their points. If they don't there is a good chance they won't get a pip unless they already saved 2 people.

If you slug a guy to 4k and they bleed out, then you are just wasting time and losing yourself points. You are cutting off your own nose to spite your face. And there is no reason to do this either for Emblems. If you are killer in a game where someone must hatch, then you have gold Devout, at least silver Malicious and Chaser, and if it a case of 2 gens done for hatch, then you have at least silver Gatekeeper. That right there is a pip, and I'm low balling the emblems. Chances are good you will get all golds at the very least. You 100% won the game if someone is forced to hatch.

For killer, you WANT the 4k but don't NEED it because you already pipped. For survivor, you NEED to save otherwise you lose rank points. There is clearly a difference.

Wolf74

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:
Killers that slugged the third guy until they bleed out to try and 4k are just greedy A-holes. If you want to slug for a 4k, that's fine, but pick the dude up and hook them if it's clear the guy isn't going to save them. Otherwise you are just wasting time and losing points. Take the damn hook, let hatch spawn, and play it out. Stop being entitled to a 4k.

What about 3 people rush to the rescue of the last guy beside the open door?
Survivor do that all the time... isn't that the very same thing in your logic?

You slug someone until they bleed out and waste everyone's time when you should just take the hook for the points, at least, then go looking for the last guy or accept that they will get hatch. Unnecessary if it's clear no one will save the person.

By contrast, when you run up to save someone near the door, you aren't wasting time and drawing out the game unnecessarily. You are also performing a tactic that has a high chance of success if everyone plays it right. Slugging someone to get the last guy doesn't have NEARLY the same chance of success. Your only hopes of success are that 1) the guy goes for a save, or 2) you find the guy while the other is slugged.

How you even think they are the same baffles me.

It really baffles me how you can miss the point and NOT see it is the same thing. :P
It is nothing about "stretching the match". It is about the entitlement to get either a 4k or a 4 escape.
It IS the same.

No it's not because survivors aren't necessarily saving someone because they want everyone to escape. They are saving them because they ARE FORCE TO for Benevolence points. If you hook someone at the end of the game, survivors can't just leave because they take a hit to Benevolence. They MUST save this person off the hook, at least, to not lose their points. If they don't there is a good chance they won't get a pip unless they already saved 2 people.

If you slug a guy to 4k and they bleed out, then you are just wasting time and losing yourself points. You are cutting off your own nose to spite your face. And there is no reason to do this either for Emblems. If you are killer in a game where someone must hatch, then you have gold Devout, at least silver Malicious and Chaser, and if it a case of 2 gens done for hatch, then you have at least silver Gatekeeper. That right there is a pip, and I'm low balling the emblems. Chances are good you will get all golds at the very least. You 100% won the game if someone is forced to hatch.

For killer, you WANT the 4k but don't NEED it because you already pipped. For survivor, you NEED to save otherwise you lose rank points. There is clearly a difference.

LOL
This is the worst piece of … I read in a long time.^^
Survivor are "forced to"... sorry, this is really beyond my capability of responding seriously.

Telling me it's about the ranking system is really hilarious.
So according to your logic the survivor basically "need" a 4 escape every match to rank up?
Because if they are so desperately reliant on that last save, any "balanced" match with 2 kills and 2 escapes would be a derank??^^

Please stay real, it's not about pipping, it's about rubbing it into the killers face that he could not get them at all.

thesuicidefox

@Wolf74 said:
So according to your logic the survivor basically "need" a 4 escape every match to rank up?

No you are putting words into my mouth. I said they need to save the guy off the hook to rank up (and safely too). If the guy gets caught again, then saved again, then caught again, then dies, that's not a big deal for me outside of the fact that having that dude alive increases my chances of survival also. But I don't need him to escape to rank up.

You clearly don't play much survivor if you think everything they do is meant to taught the killer. If anyone's logic is biased here, it's yours.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out, again, that letting someone bleed out does not get you points as killer. You lose those points, and then potentially lose MORE points because the 4th guy will hatch anyway. So when you slug someone until they bleed out, that's not a kill. Not even by victory cube standards is that a kill. Killer cannot claim it as a kill, so even if you get the last guy you still only got a 3k. You can make up whatever nonsense you want to justify it, but killer gets no emblem points, no victory cube (when it was a thing), and no BP for the death, and therefore it is not a kill. If you slug all 4 survivors and let them bleed out, you don't win as killer. In contrast, escaping in any context as survivor is always going to net you points, and usually those points are significant enough to make it a pip, and thus a win. For survivors it's a case of playing to win and maximize point gain, and for killers it's a case of playing to lose in order to spite the other team. Guess which is the toxic piece of garbage?

sixty4half

davidps4DBD said:

Slugging is a legit tactics, but it is weak. There are so many other exceptional tactics and builds. Slugging is like a build you'd go for if you're bored and you wanna be mean; or if you're inexperienced with how the game actually works. 

It's a newb strategy, don't @ me

Please explain all of these exceptional tactics and builds oh wise one.

Wolf74

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:
So according to your logic the survivor basically "need" a 4 escape every match to rank up?

No you are putting words into my mouth. I said they need to save the guy off the hook to rank up (and safely too). If the guy gets caught again, then saved again, then caught again, then dies, that's not a big deal for me outside of the fact that having that dude alive increases my chances of survival also. But I don't need him to escape to rank up.

You clearly don't play much survivor if you think everything they do is meant to taught the killer. If anyone's logic is biased here, it's yours.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out, again, that letting someone bleed out does not get you points as killer. You lose those points, and then potentially lose MORE points because the 4th guy will hatch anyway. So when you slug someone until they bleed out, that's not a kill. Not even by victory cube standards is that a kill. Killer cannot claim it as a kill, so even if you get the last guy you still only got a 3k. You can make up whatever nonsense you want to justify it, but killer gets no emblem points, no victory cube (when it was a thing), and no BP for the death, and therefore it is not a kill. If you slug all 4 survivors and let them bleed out, you don't win as killer. In contrast, escaping in any context as survivor is always going to net you points, and usually those points are significant enough to make it a pip, and thus a win. For survivors it's a case of playing to win and maximize point gain, and for killers it's a case of playing to lose in order to spite the other team. Guess which is the toxic piece of garbage?

Guess what? A "kill" is when a survivor … DIES! mindbowing
Kills = wins
Killer should get judged by their ability to kill and survivor by their ability to survive.
The whole emblem system is just a big smokescreen.
Your pip logic is flawed from the get go, because ranking up is beneficial to survivor, because they get more experiencedand better teammates that will screw up less and make the game easier.
For the killer ranking up makes things worse, since killer are reliant on the survivors mistakes.

Peasant

@pemberley You want to know when slugging goes too far? Okay, there are only three instances where slugging goes too far.
- You cheat and slug all four people at the start of the round and let them bleedout
- You specificly target one player over multiple games and slug & camp them with the sole intention of ruining their experience
- You repeatedly attempt to slug all 4 players and it's not working but you keep trying anyway, creating some weird half stalemate.

thesuicidefox

@Wolf74 said:
Guess what? A "kill" is when a survivor … DIES! mindbowing
Kills = wins
Killer should get judged by their ability to kill and survivor by their ability to survive.
The whole emblem system is just a big smokescreen.
Your pip logic is flawed from the get go, because ranking up is beneficial to survivor, because they get more experiencedand better teammates that will screw up less and make the game easier.
For the killer ranking up makes things worse, since killer are reliant on the survivors mistakes.

No a kill is a sacrifice or a mori. By emblem, victory cube, and bloodpoint standards. The game has never rewarded the killer in any way for someone bleeding out. You can make up whatever rules you want, THAT IS A FACT.

Killers are judged by the Entity at the end of the game based on their overall performance. That's what the pip system is for and why they took away victory cube.

Keep lying to yourself. You don't have a leg to stand on.

Wolf74

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:
Guess what? A "kill" is when a survivor … DIES! mindbowing
Kills = wins
Killer should get judged by their ability to kill and survivor by their ability to survive.
The whole emblem system is just a big smokescreen.
Your pip logic is flawed from the get go, because ranking up is beneficial to survivor, because they get more experiencedand better teammates that will screw up less and make the game easier.
For the killer ranking up makes things worse, since killer are reliant on the survivors mistakes.

No a kill is a sacrifice or a mori. By emblem, victory cube, and bloodpoint standards. The game has never rewarded the killer in any way for someone bleeding out. You can make up whatever rules you want, THAT IS A FACT.

Killers are judged by the Entity at the end of the game based on their overall performance. That's what the pip system is for and why they took away victory cube.

Keep lying to yourself. You don't have a leg to stand on.

lol
Someone being dead and not survive is of course not a "kill", he just decided on his own to stop breathing.^^

https://youtube.com/watch?v=u0brH06VJow

thesuicidefox

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:
Guess what? A "kill" is when a survivor … DIES! mindbowing
Kills = wins
Killer should get judged by their ability to kill and survivor by their ability to survive.
The whole emblem system is just a big smokescreen.
Your pip logic is flawed from the get go, because ranking up is beneficial to survivor, because they get more experiencedand better teammates that will screw up less and make the game easier.
For the killer ranking up makes things worse, since killer are reliant on the survivors mistakes.

No a kill is a sacrifice or a mori. By emblem, victory cube, and bloodpoint standards. The game has never rewarded the killer in any way for someone bleeding out. You can make up whatever rules you want, THAT IS A FACT.

Killers are judged by the Entity at the end of the game based on their overall performance. That's what the pip system is for and why they took away victory cube.

Keep lying to yourself. You don't have a leg to stand on.

lol
Someone being dead and not survive is of course not a "kill", he just decided on his own to stop breathing.^^

https://youtube.com/watch?v=u0brH06VJow

If you slug all 4 surivors and let them bleed out, do you get points for it? Devout? Will you rank up? Answer is no, no, and no, so you can't claim the kill as yours if they bleed out. If you think it is a kill then you are just making ######### up, because the game doesn't reward at all for it.

Wolf74

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:
Guess what? A "kill" is when a survivor … DIES! mindbowing
Kills = wins
Killer should get judged by their ability to kill and survivor by their ability to survive.
The whole emblem system is just a big smokescreen.
Your pip logic is flawed from the get go, because ranking up is beneficial to survivor, because they get more experiencedand better teammates that will screw up less and make the game easier.
For the killer ranking up makes things worse, since killer are reliant on the survivors mistakes.

No a kill is a sacrifice or a mori. By emblem, victory cube, and bloodpoint standards. The game has never rewarded the killer in any way for someone bleeding out. You can make up whatever rules you want, THAT IS A FACT.

Killers are judged by the Entity at the end of the game based on their overall performance. That's what the pip system is for and why they took away victory cube.

Keep lying to yourself. You don't have a leg to stand on.

lol
Someone being dead and not survive is of course not a "kill", he just decided on his own to stop breathing.^^

https://youtube.com/watch?v=u0brH06VJow

If you slug all 4 surivors and let them bleed out, do you get points for it? Devout? Will you rank up? Answer is no, no, and no, so you can't claim the kill as yours if they bleed out. If you think it is a kill then you are just making ######### up, because the game doesn't reward at all for it.

The reward is in the dead survivor itself.
If you can't see that, it's your problem.
I don't care how they died as long as they are dead. That's a kill in my book.^^
You can complain about it all you like, but it is just about your entitlement to not get slugged. XD

thesuicidefox

@Wolf74 said:
I don't care how they died as long as they are dead. That's a kill in my book.^^

Your book is wrong. Game doesn't reward you. It's not a kill. Doesn't matter what you say.

Wolf74

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:
I don't care how they died as long as they are dead. That's a kill in my book.^^

Your book is wrong. Game doesn't reward you. It's not a kill. Doesn't matter what you say.

Erm… how about…? … LOL? ^^

Boss

Once you break the game's rules.

FrenziedRoach

Bleedout gives zero points toward the Devout emblem, so I guess technically it goes against the Entity's will to kill in such a manner. However, there is no sanction against it by the devs, so it's fair game.

I rarely use a bleedout on purpose. I might leave an Abusive Strike user to bleed out on purpose and the occasional hook farmer - but that's about it. I'd rather just get the game over with and move on myself.

Game should be ruthless, so I'm not going to harshly judge a killer who decides to work in this manner - especially now that anti-slug perks exist.

thesuicidefox

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:
I don't care how they died as long as they are dead. That's a kill in my book.^^

Your book is wrong. Game doesn't reward you. It's not a kill. Doesn't matter what you say.

Erm… how about…? … LOL? ^^

LOL dude you have no argument. The game doesn't count it as a kill, it's not a kill.

Wolf74

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:
I don't care how they died as long as they are dead. That's a kill in my book.^^

Your book is wrong. Game doesn't reward you. It's not a kill. Doesn't matter what you say.

Erm… how about…? … LOL? ^^

LOL dude you have no argument. The game doesn't count it as a kill, it's not a kill.

Your really getting desperate here, huh?
If you bleed out, is there a little skull icon for you?
That means "you are dead".
And if you did not suicide, or die of old age, you have been "killed".
XD

thesuicidefox

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:

@Wolf74 said:
I don't care how they died as long as they are dead. That's a kill in my book.^^

Your book is wrong. Game doesn't reward you. It's not a kill. Doesn't matter what you say.

Erm… how about…? … LOL? ^^

LOL dude you have no argument. The game doesn't count it as a kill, it's not a kill.

Your really getting desperate here, huh?
If you bleed out, is there a little skull icon for you?
That means "you are dead".
And if you did not suicide, or die of old age, you have been "killed".
XD

No you died. Killer only gets credit for the kill if they sacrifice or mori. Go ahead slug all 4 survivors and take a screenshot of the scoreboard. Did you get points for killing them? No? Then it's not a kill.

sixty4half

We can all agree that the bleed out does exist.  It's counted as a death in game.  You dont naturally start out in that state.  The killer put you in a position where you will die. 

He stabbed you and you bleed out and die = he killed you

Wolf74

@sixty4half said:
We can all agree that the bleed out does exist.  It's counted as a death in game.  You dont naturally start out in that state.  The killer put you in a position where you will die. 

He stabbed you and you bleed out and die = he killed you

Nooooooooo! He just decided to stop running and stab himself with his own DS.^^