So, who's ready for the Q&A tomorrow?
Where, most likely, instead of addressing the important things, they go off on a tangent about "What inspired you to make this killer?" or "What was the creation process behind this chapter?" and then respond with "Yeah... we can't give you an answer for that just yet..." for like 75% of the actual gameplay questions? It's happened like the past three Q&A streams now.
Even themselves say "I feel like i've said that a lot this Q&A" in response to not being able to give an answer so why do they not pick questions they CAN answer and the ones they can't at least acknowledge it on the forums rather than wasting 2 mins per question reading it, laughing at a jokey username and then saying they can't answer it?
Also, does anyone else feel like there's a huge lack of communication from the devs/community managers on this forum the past few months? I remember like 4-5 months ago I saw most posts tagged with 'Dev' on the first page of posts, now I barely see it at all...
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Cant wait for answers to lore and "We're looking into it".
Devs prove me wrong pls.
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I will try to watch the Q&A but work is a complete ######### show right now so I probably won't get a chance to watch it :/
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I usually just mute the stream (if I watch at all) and tune in for chat. It's usually better than a certain hub.. >.>
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I've seen this happen a couple of times including with Overwatch's dev team and lead director Jeff Kaplan. They don't want to see criticism because as long as you do that;they won't respond or they'll brush it off and tell you how they don't want to see anything "negative." Critique isn't even a bad thing, not even dramatic and the community just wants what can hopefully be best for players in this game's community. So the long way to go is give it a while and vote with your wallet as stated by different users. Technical issues which leads to unfairness of the whole gameplay resulting in bad matchmaking is what makes the audience less likely to play the game. It's apparent too whenever you see someone's reactions when playing a game like this, there's bound to be salt and toxicity. It's bound to happen, it is a PVP game after all. Happens all the time, there's no stopping that at all. BHVR just needs to have the bigger ears to listen to enough feedback to consider what could be the conclusion on managing what's best for the players and the eyes to see what's going on with the game for themselves. It's almost like they themselves don't play test their own updates, it's bad enough people don't communicate at all in online games like this because it's easy to avoid engaging in toxic comments. Which I believe that could be one of the few reasons some players just don't chat at all. The other issue is that there's people who if they manage communities or not, can believe that problems usually derive from "drama" that is not even objectionally true, so far what I've seen is people wanting technicalities being fixed in order to bring balance.
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I mean.. have you looked at the questions by the community?
there are not really many questions they can answer and give actual new information or something.
most of the time its questions like „plz nerf DS“, „what is next map rework“, „gimme health chapter“. Most of the time we have already gotten the answer or it’s just a suggestion packed into a question.. there is not much they can work with..
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Take a shot every time their answer is "cant answer it"
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I will sum the Q&A up right now "I think we did a pretty good job so far."
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you would die from that.
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I'm ready for the we are on it, soon, no plans rn
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My guess is seventeen random lore questions about why Charlotte has a hat, maybe one or two questions about the chapter which will be brushed off, and them going into detail for six minutes about why they did the bloodlust experiment. A lot of "We can't answer this right now". The word "Dwelf" will be said many times.
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I never understood, why they would choose questions, they can´t answer. It would be different, if the questions came from the chat during a live stream. But those questions are chosen and were cleared before the stream even starts.
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They are choosing based on community questions and upvotes..
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We choose the questions that have the most upvotes. We made this change after the feedback we received on these forums about only answering certain questions and not the ones that the Community wanted answered. We make very clear that some things can't be discussed, such as upcoming changes/content etc...but then when we don't pick those questions, we're accused of "cherry picking" - that's why we made the decision to use the questions with the most upvotes.
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Haven't watched dev stream for years now.
I see it hasn't changed much. Back in 2016 it was like that too, but also lore was non existant back then (they didn't establish anything and tried to hide it behind "that's a secret/entity works in mysterious ways").
So not only most gameplay related things were ignored, lore based questions were "We cannot answer it at this time" or "because <Improvised bare bones and overly generalized answer about lore that barely touched the subject>".
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Every question that is for this chapter will be "We're looking into it" and "It'll be fixed in a future hotfix"
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You know that's not happening lol. It really infuriates me when they answer questions about the lore and all the stuff that don't mean nothing. Very rarely do we get meaningful questions answered.
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I know it might sound crazy, but that thing they said they'll look into, I don't think they'll actually look into it.
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Why do people keep bringing up lore? For the past several months or so devs have said they will answer questions from the Q&A that get the most upvotes/likes. So if a lore question gets answered, it's because a lot of people wanted it answered. You'd know this if you read the guidelines and participated in the Q&A.
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As long as we get some extra Clown rework info, I’ll be happy.
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May I ask is there any questions about the new flashlights? No one really had time to ask about them because they were collecting the questions a week ago.
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Were looking into it
There are no plans for that currently
We would love to do something like that but that requires work
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If the questions that the majority of the community actually wanted were answered you wouldn't see so many threads complaining about every Q&A being useless. You see them before them, you see them after them, yet you still say that you're choosing the right ones based off of upvotes. Even if these questions are based off of upvotes, it just means the system's gathering of questions is ineffective and you should change it further.
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and then we'd be back to the system where we're accused of Cherry picking questions and not answering the questions that people want answered.
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The community upvotes the questions, yet you imply these are not the questions the community wants answered. How would you determine what the majority of the community wants, if not by a simple, straightforward vote?
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can we get a downvote button then to counter upvotes on some questions? i would instantly downvote every lore related question there was.
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There is a downvote button for questions. Have you never browsed the Q&A section?
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maybe its new last time I bothered reading them was a while back for sure, in fact it was probably before the upvotes come in honestly
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If they don't address the DBD community with an apology at the very start of the Q&A, then I may very well be done with this game for good. Honesty goes a long way with me. Whoever gave the green light to release this new chapter in the state that it's in needs to admit that they screwed up, and that they'll fix the game.
Standing behind such a broken product and being comfortable selling it to your community was probably the worst thing I've seen BHVR do yet.
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That's assuming that you both move back to the original system and that the current system isn't being accused of cherry picking by the majority already, both of which being false. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any opposition means it's ineffective but rather that the current Q&A structure makes the majority of the community unhappy and feel alienated from the actual dev team.
May I suggest a simple solution?
- Run the currently picked Q&A questions through a survey a day before Q&A goes live. This means that the Q&A questions will have to be made earlier, but you can simply do that by announcing the Q&A earlier or increasing the time between the questions and live by a day.
- Make each question simply be: "Would you like x (the question) to be answered?"
- Give two simple choices, yes or no. Having a middle option would decrease the effectiveness.
- Give the last question of "Are you, as a member of the community, satisfied with the questions currently chosen?"
- Let people view the results once the Q&A goes live.
This would quite literally get rid of any claim of cherry-picking because you're clearing showing that you chose the questions based off of both upvotes and by what the community actually wants to hear.
Post edited by RockoRango on1 -
Thanks. It's nice to know how the questions are chosen, and to be given tangible feedback that the community gets heard.
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oop
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How are the upvotes not already representative of what the community wants to hear?
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Remember the time they announced Trapper resetting his traps? I'm betting it's going to be something like that.
Just a little clip at the end showing Clown resetting Trapper's traps.
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Because they're the questions asked by a small majority of the forums instead of the large majority of the whole community. If you look literally anywhere and take out the confirmation bias you'll see that most players agree the Q&A is currently in this state. As much as I would like to say the 'upvoted questions' on the forums represent the community, they simply do not because of the lack of knowledge about the questions beforehand. People don't want to upvote because they know their vote doesn't actually change the questions, and now you have a ton of unhappy players because the questions answered weren't wanted at all.
For example: The devs love to just randomly put Lore questions and cosmetic questions in there that I've never even seen on this forum. Where the heck did they come from? I won't know, and neither do most people know (which is where a lot of frustration stems from). Whether that be due to them being buried or just me brushing over them is irrelevant because I could not clearly see the answers chosen, therefore I cannot believe that my say or anyone else's actually went into choosing them. Making it clear that these questions are what the majority want answered through something as simple as a survey gets rid of my, or anyone else's, claim that the current system doesn't reflect what the community wants.
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There is virtually no medium that can reach every player. Even if you put an in-game pop-up (which most people close without reading anyway) saying to come to the forum and ask your questions, I doubt that would be effective at getting more people to participate.
So granted, the forum does not represent every player, but keep in mind that the people throwing around accusations of "cherry picking" are on the forum. So when you say "the community", what you're really talking about is the "small minority of the forums".
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I addressed your first point in a previous comment.
If you did more than gloss over my solution to this you would see that I'm not advocating to just "ask to upvote more". That would be pointless and a waste of time. I suggest you read over it.
Also, this is not true. The comments of cherry-picking being prevalent in Q&A are everywhere, and I wouldn't mix up minority with majority. Literally just search Q&A on reddit and you'll see an example of this: other than the advertizements for the Q&As themselves, they're just used as a punching bag and are often regarded as a joke because of how dumb the questions are.
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Fyi I don't care for the Q&A and neither watched it ever but tbh, I think the thought that an admin of a website does not have the tools to manipulate up and down votes on their own forum, if they really wanted it, seems a little bit naive.
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I addressed your first point in a previous comment.
If you did more than gloss over my solution to this you would see that I'm not advocating to just "ask to upvote more". That would be pointless and a waste of time. I suggest you read over it.
I did read your suggestion, but apparently my example was too indirect. I'll try again:
There is no way to reach every player and get them to participate in a survey of any kind.
I thought it'd be clearer since the current system is literally the survey you suggested, but over a longer period of time rather than just before the Q&A stream. You are, in effect, saying that we should vote twice, but the second vote would only include those who can be present right before the Q&A stream. Your suggestion would be less representative of the community, not more.
Also, this is not true. The comments of cherry-picking being prevalent in Q&A are everywhere, and I wouldn't mix up minority with majority. Literally just search Q&A on reddit and you'll see an example of this: other than the advertizements for the Q&As themselves, they're just used as a punching bag and are often regarded as a joke because of how dumb the questions are.
There are also plenty of comments appreciating the Q&A. Reddit is not representative of the community. Neither is any one social media platform - or even all of them combined.
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If you go into this discussion with the mindset that the devs would simply lie about and manipulate everything, then there's no point. You can't prove a negative (in this case, that they didn't manipulate the numbers), so there's literally nothing I could say to change your mind.
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There's a upvote/downvote system on the QA questions - it's been there for quite some time. (up & down arrows basically)
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That seems to be completely covered by the upvote/downvote system. The whole point of being able to upvote/downvote is that we then get the questions that the majority of the Community who've taken the time to go through the questions, wish to have answered. The problem arises when the questions that are most upvoted are about upcoming content/features/changes which we cannot answer at that time - if we don't choose these questions then we're accused of cherry picking, when we do choose these questions and explain that we can't give this information, we're also vilified for not being able to answer the question.
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Just because I haven’t seen it mentioned: they are also gathering questions (based on upvotes/likes) from Twitter.
of you are really in a state where you think the devs/forum admins manipulate the votes on these questions, why are you still here? If I would think this is as manipulated I would abandon the forums and the game..
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I can see the red marks behind my survivor during 500ms in indoor maps... Well well well... New bugs again...
More DLC = more bugs. One day they won't be able to fix this game. I am a developer, I know what I am saying.
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Is it possible to expand the system to also cherry-pick from the questions with fewer upvotes that you think are still worth an answer?
The most upvoted questions should obviously still be featured, but there are some questions (eg the mouse keyboard for console one) that don’t get enough upvotes but would definitely be worth an answer (in this case the previous statement from the dev team was made when crossplay wasn’t active and the answer was m&k would be unfair for those that don’t have the option on console iirc)
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Henceforth why my suggested plan would work unless someone is a conspiracy theorist and thinks they manipulated surveymonkey (which has always made players confirm their identity before they fill out the survey).
"Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any opposition means it's ineffective but rather that the current Q&A structure makes the majority of the community unhappy and feel alienated from the actual dev team." You glossed over this.
I don't think you see what I'm saying either: Because the community has no actual feasible way of seeing the picked questions before they actually are asked, as it's frankly doubtful and impossible that they're the top upvoted questions on a forum that's heavily censored and monitored, it causes cognitive dissonance and literally opens the door to theories of cherry-picking. There's even 'proof' of devs deleting Q&A questions with upvotes, as seen on reddit If you simply searched up Q&A like I said, and because of the forum moderators sometimes never giving a public reason against these deletions (and the fact it's their forum) the community holds themselves more truthful than the devs.
As well as that, I, once again, wouldn't use the word "majority" unless the MAJORITY.... M A J O R I T Y feel this system is wrong. Sorry if you view this as condesending, but you clearly don't understand or believe what I'm saying. People on most, if not all social media platforms I have ever seen DbD be a popular topic on have had Q&A negative posts FAR outweigh the positives. If there's actually more positive posts than negative ones about questions hiding under a bush somewhere, I'll happily read them. I used reddit as an example, and saying that every social media combined does not represent the majority of the community is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Unless you can provide actual proof of this, it's far more likely that a majority of DbD players use social media and write/read it more than once a week.
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Can't wait to see all the constructive questions such as "How dare you release this DLC, I hate BHVR!"
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Well, Ill wait for the entire vod to skip through it. I've asked a question regarding lost legacy cosmetics, unfortunately got very few upvotes, so I doubt it will be answered.
I'm not accepting 'sorry' as an answer after promising for so many years that the issue would be resolved.
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No, it is not. This is why there's a clear "Dev vs. Community" mentality expressed throughout the forums: the devs and forum moderators simply don't understand the community's reasoning or they flat out ignore it.
How many people is the "majority" that've "taken the time to go through the questions"? You have no proof of anyone actually upvoting instead of upvotes being manipulated, as do I, and the only reason this paranoia has spread is because a lot of people don't trust the forum's current upvote system (as it is viewed as basically just a censored election). Letting a third-party site (that the devs already use) ask the community to verify the questions gets rid of any opposition stating that the questions are being cherry-picked or aren't reasonable to ask.
Like I said earlier as well, you can't satisfy everyone. However, you can make the opposition's points completely moot if you actually put the effort in to stop them before it becomes the majority's view. If you had something like this in place since the start, people complaining about questions not being answered would be an entirely separate topic.
And look, I understand your view completely. I also understand where your apparent tone of a lose-lose situation with the community arises from, but this is only because the steps haven't been taken to alleviate the situation. Looking at it from the view of nothing being changed? Yes, it's a lose-lose. But actually changing something about the process that both discredits the opposition and could help the community be less divided on this type of issue? I don't see the point in not doing it.
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And then a new conspiracy theory spreads, saying that the third-party site is, in fact, in league with BHVR, or that it allows for vote manipulation, or someone falsely claims that they asked a question that wasn't listed.
Acquiescing to people whose starting position is "You are lying to me" is not a reasonable request.
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Why would you trust that survey thing blindly but not the forum or Twitter upvotes?
i don’t have that much knowledge of Twitter, but can’t you see every person that upvoted a post there somehow?
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