Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer
Please Devs, I beg of you to do something about this perk combo. As someone who plays both sides pretty equally, this is a disgusting perk combo. Playing killer is too easy with it (I got four 32k point games in a row with TRAPPER - a low mobility killer). Playing as survivor, almost always solo queue, is downright painful.
I very rarely use this perk combo as killer because I recognize how overkill it is, yet I can't even keep track of how many times I've played against a Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer Spirit, Freddy, or Leatherface just today. I know many people are going to say "JuSt dO tOtEmS", but this is hard to coordinate on solo queue, even on SWF. Once the Ruin is gone, it's likely the killer has already started snowballing and no gens are being worked on.
I would be really interested in the statistics on these perks if anyone knows if there are any statistics available. I just ask that this perk combo be seriously examined, and maybe consider tweaking Undying. Also, I'd appreciate it if anyone knows if there has been talks about changing Undying, or any of these perks for that matter.
Comments
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For reference, I've played the game since release in 2016, and I've accumulated just shy of 3,000 hours over the years.
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Do bones and git gud.
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Lol, thanks for the thoughtful input. Will take into consideration.
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You definitely should, that 'OP' combo can be destroyed within first minute of the game, plus if you nerf it for the sake of solo q, it will be useless against swf.
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Well, I knew it wouldn't take long to find the killer main who relies on this crutch build lmao.
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I don't really use it, but with post like this, you just proved you belong to rank 20 lol
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Imagine to be bad in game and want balance changes. Please upload your games from red ranks as killer where you get 32k with trapper with that "strong" combo pls or you a 20 rank player that didnt know anything in this game?
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I play Solo and have no issue with this combo. The issue is there are far too many generator visioned survivors in this game that just ignore the existence of bones.
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I wish I could get your teammates XD
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Keep in mind all the survivor combos they can use. Its just another meta perk combo, similar to DS, Unbreakable, and Soul Guard(AKA the micro pp build) and that's only 3 perks out of the 16 that survivors can bring. Bring Detectives hunch, or the other totem detection perk. If its that much of a problem then you might have to adjust your playstyle.
All of those combos may seem like overkill, but it's what you need to keep up with the sweatiest of both sides.
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IMO the most problematic Perk in this Combo is Tinkerer. But I doubt that this is gonna get nerfed, so I bet Undying will get changes somewhat soon.
Cant wait for the forum reaction on that one tho. :>
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I believe almo has said and don't quote me on this* (the stats aren't as high as old ruin)
meaning its less impactful
but also it requires more build dedication with 2/4 of your perks able to be permanently removed
remember survivors have slightly weaker perks than killer but have 4x as many perk slots between them, if the killers perks should be taken down in power level due to synergistic properties there are plenty who can say the same about some survivor perks
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the combo is strong buyut whats the problem? survivors have their own combos wich are stupid aswell in fact due taht the meta shifted, now you can bring Soul Guard to the game and get infinite unbrekables aswell, i mean survivor meta is stupidly strong aswell as it is SWF, so whtas the problem with a decent build from killers for once?
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Yeah, I'm totally ok if there are some changes to survivor, especially DS. I very rarely use the "meta" perks, and like to try out lots of different fun builds. I have been using Detective's Hunch a lot, and I've been enjoying it. However, the gen has to be completed which can be difficult with Tinkerer and high mobility killers. It's still helped in quite a few matches though!
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I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some changes to survivor either.
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That's interesting about the statistic, thank you! At this point, I would way rather have old Ruin because then the gens wouldn't regress with the new and improved Tinkerer (which definitely needed a buff).
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when i learned one thing in my plenty of discussions regarding this build on this forum, here is how you, as a solo survivor, can counter it:
stop playing solo and queue up in a coordinated SWF.
here is my opinion on it:
the perk build is lazy, boring and carries way too many bad killers through red ranks. it destroys solo teams, is highly medicore against coordinated SWFs (so in actual high level play you still get stomped even with this build) and as someone who usually plays solo survivor i have very little respect for those that run it (i avoid playing it myself too) - i call it "the fun build" (with an ironic undertone ofc - cause its not at all fun to go up against).
the only perk in the build i would deem "too strong" would be Undying though, both Ruin and Tinkerer on their own are fine. imo it does way too much and should have the aura reveal either be taken out of it completely or at the very least have it be restricte to Hex totems only. also the survivors should get the Hex notification for Undying once their aura is revealed by it / a Hex respawned so they are at least aware of its existance.
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I still prefer it to old ruin, slowdown for applying pressure is much better than free pressure because you put on a single perk
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Hey, I don't have any uploaded games, but you can check out my stream sometime if you're interested.
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I agree with everything you said 100%!
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lol this is funny. If ruin is on, and the killer is actively chasing people off gens, go looking for the totems. What's the issue? It's not like the totems spawn randomly on the map. Learn where they are, they spawn in the same general areas on each map. And there are only 5 of those too. Cleanse the dull ones if you think he's running undying.
And remember, 2 hexes, means 2 less real perks. Once those totems are cleansed, he just lost half his perks. And I cannot tell you how many times I have had ruin, or devour hope, or even that stupid third seal one (for a rift challenge) and I swear 30 seconds into the match and it's gone! It's even more fun when you spawn in as a survivor and the hex totem is right in front of you!
I would be more than happy to get rid of ruin/undying if they go rid of DS and Unbreakable. You up for that? Oh wait, here's an idea:
ATTENTION DEVS: Make it so certain powerful perks cannot be used together, ie you could only use one of these "meta" perks in your build. I'd be for that too.
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Don't be shy upload your games and invite me too watch.
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I don't have any recorded, still working on being able to, but I do stream occasionally. T.TV/Scalawag222
I play mostly Trapper, some Freddy and Myers. And I play a lot of solo queue survivor, but haven't much lately. Come stop by sometime :)
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Hey, I'd be totally ok if there were some changes to survivor perks. I don't use DS too often, so I'm totally ok with changes to that. My opinion is maybe Undying could do without the aura reading?
Your logic and reasoning is there, counting on the fact your other teammates will be doing something productive. Unfortunately, that is usually not the case with solo queue, lol.
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Its funny. Everyone tells you all how to counter it. Yet you all ignore it.
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I feel your pain. 99.9999% of my survivor games are soloQ. And I can't tell you how many times I wish there was a perk to kick a fellow survivor to keep them from de-hooking me when the killer is right there (and they typically do not have BT). I always say "Thanks for farming me" even if no one else can hear me.
As for the aura reading, yeah, I know that's a pain (I do not have Blight yet, so no undying for me as killer). I've been chased off multiple times, but all the same, there are times that I did cleanse the hex totem even with undying. Depends on what the killer is doing at the time and how far away you are. (Ran into one killer who had Ruin, Undying, Devour Hope and Haunted Grounds! Every totem was lit. We got rid HG early, assume we got the Undying at some point, and eventually Ruin, but Devour Hope was our downfall.)
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Then take it from me, i am a survivor main that plays only solo: Do bones. its quite easy actually, because totemspawn is not nearly as random as some people seem to think. you can find the totems easy on most maps. You should just remember to cleanse any totem you see, even dull ones, right from the start (so undying just does less). Yes, there is the odd game where you cant find the last totem, it happens.
On the other hand, run detectives hunch, preferable with a map, because you sacrifice one perk slot to nullyfiy 2 perks of the killer. IF you face the combo as often as you claim, and you can´t remeber the totem spots, thats the way to go i think.
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I understand what you're saying, but some perk combos are just going to synergize better than others. Suggesting that we nerf something that works good together doesn't solve anything. Pop/Surveillance/Oppression is also a really good combo, but are we to nerf that as well? What about Trail of Torment/Tinkerer/Dark Devotion? Where does it end? Are we to nerf "OP" survivor combos too like DS/Undying?
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Ruin-Undying-Tinkerer is someone expending 3 perk slots (Remember, killer perks are more valuable than survivor perks! A killer gets 4, to the survivor's 16!) that can be removed by doing a side objective. Ignoring this combo and trying to 'brute force' it tends to end poorly, but that doesn't mean its OP. Survivors are not SUPPOSED to be able to brute force past killer perks. Imagine trying to just... ignore Devour Hope.
3 out of 4 perks is a huge commitment, and Undying+Ruin is actually a good example of what a totem protection and strong totem should do together. Hexes have a design problem where their impact is large for the slot, but they are supremely inconsistent. What undying does is trade the slot efficiency of hexes for consistency, not in the sense that you will NEVER lose your perk, but it in the sense that it is now guaranteed to have game impact because people MUST search for the hexes and at LEAST 30 seconds of gen time is going away.
If properly countered, its pretty darn fair. Especially coordinated groups can even brute force past it in a pinch: just get multiple gens up there at once. If you refuse to adapt, get ready to get wrecked. The main 'problem' is predicting if they have Tinkerer (which makes searching for the totems rather important for a solo) or not (which makes it rather un-important, just prevent the tri-gen), but that just rewards good survivors who can mentally keep track of if the killer suddenly is on them when they are nearly done out of nowhere with no TR.
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wut
Like no offense, but your reference means nothing. You don't have a better or more valid opinion just because you played longer. Your argument should just be the argument.
And that's not even a counter-argument, again you're attacking someone based on your perceived notion of them, you haven't attacked the argument at all. Point still stands, do bones, get rid of 2 perks, the match lasts a little longer but I'm sure you can handle it, after all you've played over three thousand hours, right?
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The reference is for people to understand that I know how to pressure gens, do totems, etc. People with very little play time tend to be the ones who urban evade around the map not being productive.
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I'm not suggesting to nerf combos. I'm asking for them to individually looks at perks, particularly Undying.
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I don't know what teammates you're getting, but most people just can't wrap this around their heads. So I could easily bring a map and do all 5 totems, but then my teammates will be doing god knows what and maybe manage to get 1 gen done.
I think better matchmaking would solve a lot of issues honestly.
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I think you're missing the emphasis on the solo queue. I feel experienced enough where I know how to play against this build, however most of my teammates are grossly incompetent. It's hard to be the one person doing all the totems while getting gens done and having to unhook these people who go down in 10 seconds flat.
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As someone who plays both side I think the perk combo is perfectly fine. I also play Survivor solo queue my whole dbd life. I'm not gonna demand Nerfs for a perk because I got garbage teammates. I am against hand holding players just because they refuse to get better, Sucks that I didn't get escape but that's fine. You get good teammates and you get awful ones that's just how it is.
Do the bones.
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"Lazy perk build"
A perk build that does literally nothing unless the killer is proactively pressuring generators and survivors.
Also next to no other aura reveal in the entire game shows itself to you as survivor so...
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There's nothing wrong with it. It can be destroyed. Survivors also have bs combos and there's 4 of them.
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multi-quote exists, you just click quote on each that you want to respond to.
It's understood, unless you state in the title or description, that you know the basics of how to do something regardless of what your opinion on it is. People who post the obvious don't have a critical mind to actually look past that, and instead just point out the obvious because we apparently need to repeat the same thing over and over again like a bunch of babies.
"Do bones" is the strategy against this combo. It's is the best strategy, it is the only viable strategy. Asking the devs to nerf it is like asking a dev to nerf Calm Spirit because it negates Doctor's whole concept. A killer who comes in with this combo in mind must be aware of the risks and downsides, and survivors who play against these killers must keep an eye out for the potential of this happening. Just like survivors have to know the risks behind running Unbreakable/Decisive Strike. But these are all potentials, both sides need to be aware of these combinations and know how to fight against them.
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Yikes, insinuating I don't have a critical mind, when I bring up obvious issues with the gameplay of this game.
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I agree with this here. I feel like Tinkerer is gonna get a small nerf in the future just as soon as it actually became good and people started using it.
I'm guilty of using it in a lot of my killer builds, even though I find it slightly unfun to face as survivor.
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Busting Ruin doesn't bust Tinkerer.
Busting Ruin is easier said than done with Undying around.
Even with teams that devote time to do bones, doing so gives the killer exactly what he needs: time at the start of the match. The combo is too powerful and too reliable. Sometimes the survivors will bust it in 30 seconds, but that takes a lot of luck. Usually the combo lasts for well over a minute and that's a minute of no gens getting done. It's a huge advantage for a killer even if he loses two perk slots.
Anyway, frankly it needs to be nerfed. And if you say things like DS need to be nerfed, well go ahead and nerf them! I am all for getting rid of all the meta perks.
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See you're still not attacking the argument, you're just replying on one point and ignoring the rest. It's not a discussion, it's just talking to a wall that has pre-written signs posted.
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I think solo q is your problem not the combo itself, if randoms weren't bots this game would be amazing and people hiding in basements at the beginning of the game for no rhyme or reason is just what dbd solo has become , literally had one random hiding in the basement and one urban evading the whole game , I ran the killer long enough for that one survivor that was doing something to do 2 gens alone and they DC because they realized the others weren't trying to do gens and I just gave up on hook because it was just a no win situation with teammates playing that way at red ranks
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Looks like you havent learned anything in that 3000 hrs
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Already assuming what people are and going for the typically polarizing response. Great way to make people not give a ######### about your opinion or this issue.
I play killer more than survivor. Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer is not an issue in itself. It carries in solo, sure, but a lot of games aren't full solo and it helps killers who are not as confident with their current character. It's helpful to extend the game when you're learning a killer or want to go for more chases than just constantly multitask to the point of actual IRL sweating. I used this combo to start learning nurse, it helped me a lot to extend the game and have more chases and now I've graduated to pop and more chase-oriented perks.
It's not so much a crutch as it is a practical means to help some killers make the game last longer. Of course, the Spirit main that constantly slugs everyone with ruin/undying/tinkerer is dumb to face and definitely overkill, but they're not common. Still no reason to nerf beyond smaller details such as the aura reading.
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I mean, in general Tinkerer is not too strong and the Buff was fine and it was also quite an easy buff to do (just change some values). But in combination with Ruin/Undying, especially on high mobility Killers, it can be quite oppressive. Getting a notification at 70% means that the chances are high that this Gen will be interrupted, on a high-mobility Killer changes are high that it is not reaching that much more than 70%.
But I also doubt that they will touch Tinkerer again, since they just buffed it.
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Played a game earlier as PH with Ruin/Undying.
Undying was broken in first couple minutes, Ruin was completely out in the open on Coal Tower. I chased every survivor past it multiple times and it still stayed up for the entire match.
Survivors just refuse to do bones.
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Yeah, you are supposed to do totems against this combo. Why on earth do you need to be coordinated if you want to get rid of bones???
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I have zero sympathy. There is many ways for you not to be solo player. But yet you still are. And then come on and complain "oh the game is hard cause of three perks". Hell im sure some of these people on this forum would play if you asked them. But yet here you are. Asking for nerfs instead of adapting. Literally do bones. Thats it. It shouldnt honestly take you more than 4 minutes to do all the bones. Hell. Half of the time you can legit just ignore ruin and power thru gens. Esp the first few.
Idk man. I also dont take the game seriously enough to ask for nerfs and just try to adapt to the situation at hand.
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And hit again was the strategy against mom, and they killed the perk
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