"Hillbilly and Nurse are still strong"
When people suggest reverting the cool-downs added to hillbilly and nurse you always have people saying "They are still strong"
With Nurse she just feels slow and sluggish to use her power now. No wonder she has the lowest pick rate, but people just blame it on "She's to hard to learn"
And with hillbilly it limits how much you can do and even if it doesn't come into play often it's still something you have to keep focus on constantly and sometimes it can become alot to handle at a time
I don't care if they are still at the same strength level after the nerfs, they are just super unfun to play now and people should learn someday that not everybody is looking for wins, some just want to have fun
Edit: so apparently people aren't reading the post and are just commenting for the hell of it. IM NOT SAYING THEY ARE NOT STRONG ANYMORE, IM SAYING THEY ARE NOT FUN TO LEARN AND PLAY ANYMORE
Comments
-
If you dont have fun with a Killer, there are 20ish other Killers to play. I still like playing Billy. And I have seen 4 Billys just yesterday, so I guess others like playing him too.
24 -
It makes me sad because I was having fun trying to learn Nurse back before they added the cooldown. There's no other killer like her, choosing one of the others doesn't really fill that hole. But trying to play her just isn't fun, I don't care about strength as much as I do the joy of blinking around.
I didn't like Hillbilly before the change, though I like him even less, now. I rarely see him when I play survivor. Of course, I don't play survivor much, what with queue times being as they are. I play killer more than anything these days, though I've already gotten kinda tired of trying to play The Twins (there are only so many times you can miss a pounce and get kicked before you look at the clock and are like, is this match still going? Hurry up, guys.), so I'm not playing killer right now, either.
8 -
Fully agreed. I think Nurse is still really strong, but holy ######### is she miserable to play now. I felt exhausted even after 4king, so I just stopped playing her. And I get that insta-saw Billy was an issue but Billy just isn't nearly as fun to play now that you can't do some version of crack billy. Used to play him a lot but there's not really any reason to pick him over Oni now
I don't think it's a problem to nerf something if it's too strong, but bhvr seems to always find a way to suck all the fun out of the killer with some of these changes. PH might be stronger than before too but I am really bummed out with the way they changed him as well, as it's just not as fun imo
10 -
They technically still are strong. Nurse still ignores most of the mechanics in the game, and a good Nurse will still always win. Billy sucks to play, but he still has insane map mobility and can instadown.
They may not be fun to play anymore, but they are still strong.
But yeah, you are right. When BHVR nerfs a killer, they most of the time make them a lot less fun. Pyramid Head was probably a huge show of this. Coming in and out of his power just feels gross now, and they didn't even address why people hate him.
I would much rather them be fun to play than strong, honestly. It's why I love Oni, Blight, and Demo. Though, Oni and Blight tick both those boxes for me.
10 -
I know I’ve never played Nurse but how in the world is Hillbilly so different than before?
More than half of the time my chainsaw hardly overheats. Sometimes I let it overheat on purpose just to see if it’s working as intended.
3 -
Nurse is the best killer in the game. They don’t need to revert any changes done to her. She has a low pick rate because she’s garbage tier if you don’t know how to play her well. Why play Nurse when you can play Spirit or Freddy who have low skill ceilings and do amazing? I mostly agree though. When they nerf a killer they tend to just add annoying mechanics and don’t actually change them.
5 -
Well yeah, we know she's still strong. The problem isn't whether or not she's the best killer in the game, it's that BHVR doesn't know how to balance a strong killer without sapping the fun out of them. "Oh no, this killer's too strong, we gotta do something." Well, what they did was make the killer feel like crap to play as so no one plays them anymore. It's not even about skill ceilings, Nurse was a huge challenge to try to learn before but I was having fun trying. Getting one or zero kills isn't a big deal if I'm having fun, and getting 4k isn't worth it if I'm not having fun.
8 -
I think it's just the add-on changes. Overheat mechanic is annoying but is rarely an actual problem. Old add-ons allowed a lot of curving play that you just can't do as effectively with the current add-ons, so it effectively lowered his skill ceiling
Edit: I forgot, overheat mechanic does make feathering much more annoying as well, so that also lowers his skill ceiling because it just removes more options for him
0 -
I agree. I miss old Bumper Billy, or old Nurse. I've never liked playing Billy seriously, but now half his addons are revolved around the Overheat mechanic that is barely an issue unless you're trying to learn him, in which case it's awful. And Nurse just feels SOOOO clunky to play. An already frustrating Killer to play is horrible with the charges changes.
6 -
I only started playing him after the rework and love him. He’s my third favourite killer behind deathslinger and clown
1 -
they are still strong, its just that you got to be very, very good at them in order to use their power efficiently.
a perfect nurse or a billy who mastered drifting are very scary to go up against.
0 -
Read the post before commenting please
I never once stated that they were weak or anything Im legit talking bout how they are not fun to play anymore
8 -
Nurse is strong still, most certainly the best killer. Unfun to play though.
Billy, eh, he's like at the bottom of top tier now. I personally think he's still better than Freddy but worse than Slinger. Still incredibly janky and unfun to play especially if you're new to billy (like me).
0 -
They just drained all the fun from both of them with the excuse of fixing it
Nurse needed addon changes because having 5 blinks or longer blinks charged in a shorter amount of time were both extremely strong and unfun to play against, basekit nurse with 2 blinks was perfectly fine, so of course they gutted the addons and gutted the basekit
Hillbilly had some way overtuned addons to where 1 green was far and above his best addon even outclassing some of the other addons in the same tier, while at the same time lacking ultra rare addons, so what did they do, gutted the problem addons, gutted the non problem addons, gutted the basekit and said it was all fine because they gave us lopro chains
11 -
I agree they should have went about nerfing her and Billy a different way, but I’ve been playing Nurse mostly and find her extremely fun. So, I wouldn’t say they made either killer terrible to play.
0 -
While both killers are still incredibly strong in the right hands, they are significantly harder to learn and less fun to play as now. I hope they revert the current nerfs and find some other way to nerf them that doesn't render them clunky and awkward.
2 -
I don't understand people who say they "sapped" the fun outta nurse. What did they sap out of you? Unless you were playing extra blinks or old range addons then they were quite clearly busted and deserved a change. She's still by FAR the strongest killer in the game, if the 6 second max cooldown hurts you that much then run double recharge, which is exactly like playing old nurse.
I do agree that billy shouldnt have been nerfed but once again i don't see how he's "unfun" anymore. Do people just find a killer that's harder unfun becaues they can't be bothered to put in the hours to learn?
0 -
Fun being subjective means it's going to be different for every individual and makes it difficult for devs to account for it when designing/updating killers. Though, statements like "Legion is fun because you get to stab people a bunch" and "DbD is fun because it's frustrating" don't inspire a lot of confidence.
To me, the cooldown on Nurse just feels soooo clunky. I could deal with the fatigue, it takes some getting used to but it wasn't the worst thing ever. Once the cooldown was added, though, it just became too much. And I'm the kind of person who always seems to find the places she can't blink through, which only makes playing as her worse.
4 -
Yeah, playing add-onless Nurse and Nurse with her cooldown reduction add-ons feel completely different. I wasn’t saying you can’t find her unfun. I was just saying I personally enjoy her a lot.
1 -
Oh, sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that's what you meant, just that yeah we are going to find different things fun, and then going on to say what personally makes her unfun for me, since I know "well, I don't like it" isn't constructive or helpful.
I play all killers add-onless, so that probably makes it more difficult on myself, but relying on add-ons can get expensive quick with how RNG and grindy the Bloodweb is. I want to work on unlocking perks on killers and survivors before getting sucked into buying add-ons.
2 -
So people should just pick a different killer instead of voicing their complaints?
6 -
I dunno why they changed Nurse and then stuck with the changes, because it didn't fix anything, aside from making her less fun to play, judging from a lot of the complaints here. She's still arguably the best killer in the game, so what did the change accomplish?
Same with Hillbilly, except it just made him flatly worse. Like, what is the balance target? Bring some of the weaker killers up, instead of trying to bring the few truly decent ones down.
3 -
I don't like it either. Being given freedom to use your power whenever and however you feel is best feels good. It's not fun to be restricted from using the killer's power, the reason you're playing that specific killer.
Nurse used two blinks? Now you have to wait your turn and give the survivors a chance to run away before you can blink again. Billy sprinted across the map and used your chainsaw a couple of times? We're gonna make you overheat so you're whole power is disabled so you can only M1.
6 -
With Nurse, I think most of the community was in agreement that many of her add-ons were busted and needed to go. It's moreso the basekit changes that drove people crazy, I think. I definitely agree that she's still 1st or 2nd in terms of strength, but having to constantly keep an eye on the blink recharge, WHILE keeping an eye on the survivors... it gets to be exhausting really quick. And even with both recharge add-ons, you still can't get back to old basekit nurse. It's getting closer, but you still can't bypass the recharge system completely. If you charge the blink a quarter second early, you get punished. It demands so much more focus than old basekit nurse did, so that's why I don't find it fun anymore. I can still do great with her, but it just feels miserable to play. Honestly I find pretty much any other killer to be more fun. I'd play 20 matches with Wraith before I play a single Nurse match anymore
With Billy, a lot of people had already put in the time to learn him and bhvr just straight up removed certain things he could do well for advanced billy players, while pretty much taking nothing away from beginners. If you feather for too long, you'll overheat. You can't pair a charge add-on with an engraving to give you more curving capabilities (the only charge add-on now is garbage since it kicks him down to 110 movement speed). So your options in chase are more limited than before. If you were a billy player that found any of those things fun or rewarding, then their removal is going to make billy feel a lot less fun
2 -
To be fair,there are still dailies or archive challenges that people have to do.
Billy was pretty much non existent before this tome.
5 -
Nurse without addons is just so pathetically slow.
You can counter her by holding W across Wrecker's Yard and she'll literally never catch up because of the recharge time/short blink distance.
A rework should reduce reliance on addons, not increase it.
4 -
A lot of people just hate the double cooldown she has right now.Using addons to try to circumvent those changes isn't really good design plus it didn't do anything to nurse.
Great nurses are still killing teams in seconds.The blink recharge mechanics just makes it more unfun and punishing for average and bad nurse players (which wasn't needed).The core problem the devs tried to adress with this mechanic wasn't solved.
The problem with the overheat mechanic is that it heavily limits your playstyle.It enforces that zoom around the map and backrev playstyle and quite heavily resticts creative playstyles (e.g curving).You get maybe 1 or 2 attempts now before your saw overheats.
Another problem imo are the animation changes.Playing billy now feels quite clunky and not as smooth as he used to be.
The addition of this annoying roar whenever he's sprinting is just the cherry on the top.
Also people don't dislike playing difficult killers.A lot of players actually love using killers like blight or oni for example.
4 -
Nurse is more than fine as she is. She can still wipe the floor out of any Rank 1 SWF survivor team. And there are still a lot of Nurse players around today, more than there were last year actually. People have adapted to the new nurse and she is still as strong as ever.
Billy is another story, though frankly I think Billy is still strong.
The main reason you don't see much Billy in play, is because there are three alternatives who fit the same niches Billy used to, but are arguably better: Blight, Oni and Bubba.
Billy might need a buff or something to make him more appealing, but he is still strong to be honest. The devs just went overboard copypastaing his power to other killers to the point that it made him irrelevant. A lot of people were complaining how Oni was too much like a Billy clone back when he came out.
1 -
the devs said that they were "happy" with the way billy was performing then boom he gets nerfed and nearly all his addons are useless, also his current animations also suck please revert his base power
7 -
He is still very much the same killer as before. Just no Tuning Guide, Thompson Mix, or their lesser forms. The builds that existed before are still there. Bumper, drift king, and silent Billy was especially buffed.
There are some tweaks I’d like to happen to a handful of his addons, but he’s still strong. He’s still very much the same killer.
They had to balance him down to the reworked maps and they were right to do it.
0 -
yes he's my main killer still but he isn't as much fun now than before, all they had to do was gut his charge time/cooldown addons
4 -
I find him just as fun as before the nerf but I also ran him addonless mostly. The chargetime cooldown addons were necessary when god windows and tile spacing were issues in maps. Bandaid addons. They’re not needed anymore and are indeed overkill.
I play him with no gen slowdown now and still regularly 4k. They did a good job on his rework. I’d just adjust a few addons, mostly black grease.
0 -
they should revert the cooling rate so it doesn't hurt double engravings that much
3 -
It's all subjective regarding fun factor, but Nurse is definitely clunky. Still the best killer in the game as long as the map is favorable.
Billy got hit way harder though. The overheat killed him in high level play. No reason to take him over Blight now, especially now that people are learning everything Blight is capable of. Doubt the devs realized Blight could flick 180 degrees.
0 -
Billy and Nurse are way too fun to verse.
If you escape somehow you know you did good and learned something.
Lastly ... you know how much effort the person on killer put to be good or not and that's why (stronger or not) i appreciate Nurse/Billy (specially flicky) mains.
1 -
Its their game, idc... but they should have at least give the option to refund all the BP for addons they completely changed. Because you can´t simply rework addons people already "paid" for.
When you spend like a lot of BP for a characters items or addons (you should see my nurse inventory), and they all work a completely different way suddenly, there needs to be the option for refund.
0 -
Billy nerf wasn't really random. A lot of survivors were complaining that Billy was OP especially with BBQ.
0 -
They're still really strong. But they're really not as fun to learn.
0 -
If you paid attention to the names on a lot of those threads you'd realize most of them were from the same people.
So in reality it wasn't a lot of survivors it was more realistically 10-15 crying for 6-12 months straight.
2 -
I mean, those Nerfs were justified. For both Billy and Nurse. Fun is subjective, if someone thinks they are not fun anymore, they can play other Killers. Like, I am not going on the Forums and say "Hag is not fun to play, do something about it!", because I have plenty of options to choose from and I am not forced to play Hag.
And if we look at those Nerfs - Nurse is still the strongest Killer and she is basically a design failure. She came into the game with so much busted stuff which is not in the game anymore, so why should the Devs get rid of stuff like Infinites, Double Pallets, but keep the Killer which ignores Survivor Defenses?
And Billy, its 2020, the game got so much easier for Killer. The Killer with insane Map Mobility, strong Add Ons and an easy to use One Hit-ability (with some practise) is not balanced anymore. So they made a minor change to his Kit, which most of the time does not affect him and changed his Add Ons.
This is correct. Of course the Archives will also play a role in that, I can even imagine that the Devs put Archive-Challenges in the Tome to see how Billy performs (even tho, this way of looking at data would be questionable, because players who never played Billy would play him).
But, in theory, you can ignore those Challenges, because they are not on the main track of the Archives and you can also replace Dailies.
3 -
I'd be fine with them removing the Overheat mechanic from Billy; he didn't need it. But it doesn't break him. I've not once overheated when playing him, and don't think I've ever seen it happen, especially against good Billy players.
Nurse, however, needed a bit more of a cooldown on top of what she got, imo. Go against a 5k hour Nurse main and you see just how bleak it is. The survivors may as well be replaced with AI and it would be the same outcome.
0 -
Nurse isn’t beating a strong swf team. No killer is. Even with fast downs, maps can totally destroy her due to size and gen speed
4 -
Nurse still dominates games assuming the player knows what they are doing. The recharge has done nothing as the only useful addons happen to be the ones that reduce the recharge to pre-nerf level.
0 -
One point is undisputed the playerbase that came to enjoy these killers have evaporated. Which suggests one of two motives it was unintentional and the devs don't have a clue on how to fix them or it was deliberate so newer killer with more fluid mechanics would not be overshadowed by these juggernauts. Remember billys rework came shortly before blight. Which stinks of foul play.
Someone needs to reinforce that cooldowns arent fun. My total experiance of billy post rework has been limited to the release of the rift chapters which required billy for challenges. Up till that point it was oni or blight. It makes future nerfs to killers seem very worrying.
Having played billy for those challenges granted overheating was bugged in one of those games I had never been more frustrated playing any other killer bar pre rework freddy.
Since i dislike being negative without being constructive. Here some suggestion for billy. His overheat needs some nuance. Make it increase his speed whilst chainsawing as the gauge builds. If it hits past 50% the speed of chainsaw sprint movement increases. Finally make overheating your saw trigger an instant chainsaw sprint.
That or just rip the overheat entirely out and bring better manuverbility to billy. As for nurse i cant recomend a solution without proper experiance.
Post edited by Zarathos on2 -
I have fun with nurse. In fact, I main her
0 -
Nurse "nerf" made her maybe 5% less effective at map pressure. It changed nothing.
"Oh no I have to wait an additonal 1.5 seconds to cpletely break the game"
The Billy change was awful. all he needed was instasaw nerfs. The overheat actually punishes the top level billys who would go for curves at pallet loops or knew how to weave around the map.
1 -
Nurse is only unfun to play if you don't know how use her lol
1 -
I tried my best to like the new nurse but it's almost impossible. You have fatigue AND a recharge, #########? Also, the only reason she is 96% ms is because she could travel the map inmediatly. Now, she got nerfed and spends most of the match walking, but still 96%? really? IMO they should raise that to 100% at least.
The worst thing about her is that a survivor can run straight and it's physically impossible to catch up. Between fatigue, recharge and the slow movement speed you just simply can't.
The devs are, and will still be, adding the "charge" feature to every killer. I don't know why are they obsessed with it, but slowly all killers are getting that treatment. They said they will be nerfing Freddy, I wonder where the charges will be.
Plus, the reasoning behind these nerfs makes no sense. Nurse was nerfed because she was the best, now she is still the best but is now harder to pick up. Great job.
1 -
Nurse player here:
Can confirm her cooldown is trash and needs to be reduced slightly. Without cooldown addons, she's miserable. I don't care what anyone says, BHVR is absolutely survivor-sided with a little bit of killer work to appeal to veteran killers. Being a new killer, especially with an all-but useless tutorial, being thrown right into the fire, the MMR having yellow killers up against red survivors, has got to be ridiculously discouraging. Hell, I've been playing more than a year and I still get discouraged to play, especially Nurse without cooldown addons. They could do with reducing her natural cooldown by 0.5 seconds at least.
2 -
"I mean, those Nerfs were justified. For both Billy and Nurse. Fun is subjective, if someone thinks they are not fun anymore, they can play other Killers. Like, I am not going on the Forums and say "Hag is not fun to play, do something about it!", because I have plenty of options to choose from and I am not forced to play Hag."
No those nerfs were not justified both nurse and hillbilly had perfectly fine base kits that didn't need nerfing
"just play another killer" is stupid. Having characters that are completely boring and bring no enjoyment is unhealthy for the game and the fact that you don't want those characters fixed is just awful. And why should I be forced to play certain characters if I want to have fun. Also, you have to realize every killer is different and you can't just play a different one and get the same experience as another.
"Nurse is still the strongest Killer and she is basically a design failure. She came into the game with so much busted stuff which is not in the game anymore, so why should the Devs get rid of stuff like Infinites, Double Pallets, but keep the Killer which ignores Survivor Defenses?"
What's with people and just forgetting that nurse is the hardest killer to learn? It's almost like a killer that takes high skill should give high reward
But everyone acts like you can just press m2 as nurse and all of the survivors instantly die
"And Billy, its 2020, the game got so much easier for Killer. The Killer with insane Map Mobility, strong Add Ons and an easy to use One Hit-ability (with some practice) is not balanced anymore"
First "the game is so much easier for killer" lol nice joke. Second How does everybody ignore the fact that the devs said that he was completely fine balance wise in the dev post about the hillbilly and lf changes
Something survivors need to realize is that strong killers can't just press a button and instantly win, it takes skill and time to learn and get good with these killers and when people are very skillful with these killers. Of course thousand hour nurse mains are gonna be hard to beat, those players took the time to learn how to be skillful with her.
4
