The facecamping is getting really tiring now...
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I wish these were complaints when a killer complains that a survivor didnt die fast enough or when survivors do gens, its the only thing they can do
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How did survivors abuse it tho? The killer is the one camping
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In some cases you're right but not always. Many games have situations that one role engages in, but yet the developer will still remedy the player induced and created problem. The developers have already stated that face camping isn't ideal for either side but they've also stated that they don't think it's enough of a problem because the numbers aren't there.
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I believe that survivors doing gens has nothing to do with a killer deciding that facecamping is the way. It has to do with the fact that he wants to have it easy, killing a survivor on the first hook, much like having old Mori available.
The easy solution would be to have the timer stop if the killer is in a certain range and not in chase. I can't see how that would be severely abusable. If the survivor being chased keeps looping close the the hooked guy, the timer will still go on (as I said, timer does not stop if in chase). If the killer chooses to stay there, he will gain nothing, as the timer will stop. If the survivor keeps going back and forth, not only will he be wasting time, he will also start a chase, and then another, and then another. This way, survivors will not get camped as easily, but killer who have to rely on camping because they aren't able to keep up can still do it.
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That’s one of the most confidently incorrect posts I’ve seen on here, and there’s many bad ones
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As much as something of what you are saying is actually true, you can only do so much with looping. Cheesy killers like Spirit, for instance, will get you even easier than other killers, who most of the time rely on bloodlust to catch you, refusing to destroy pallets to get more speed. You can be good at looping, it won't matter. Sooner or later, even because of bloodlust alone, the killer will get you. And if he took enough time to get you, he'll probably be so pissed that he will facecamp you. Happened to me a lot, I've recently been facecamped to death on first hook, by a Billy, for instance. Why? Just because it took him longer than it took for dinosaurs to be extinct. Sure, if I see a killer facecamping me I will try to give other survivors (I mostly play solo) more time to work on gens. But what do I get out of it? Videogames are meant to be played and playable, not something where you stare at a jack*ss who is so unskilled he will pick the easy way out.
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What’s enough of a problem and how could they even get numbers on how many people camp? I personally know 2 people who stopped playing the game because camping just made the game too boring for them to play. How many other people have quit the game early because of this? If things like this which ruin the fun of the whole game weren’t possible imagine how much bigger the player base could have been?
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From a totally non-biased point of view, I would say that these players are either tired and burned out of playing normally (for whatever reason) or they simply enjoy to play that way.
Being a "retired" Killer main, plenty of times I've thought; "GODDAMN, that was an annoying match! Next match I swear I will facecamp ANYONE caught!".
It's quite simple, bad experiences lead to bad behaviour - just like in RL.
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Let me explain why my post is not incorrect. We all know the game. We SHOULD all know the rules. Players who are playing by the actual rules, are by default not behaving in an inappropriate way. If you don't like the rules of the game, find another one. The only people being "bad sports" are those who understand the rules but choose to ignore them and try to set their own unofficial rules, i.e. the Survivors Rulebook for Killers made famous on Samination. Trying to grief and shame people for playing by the rules simply because you can't handle it is the DEFINITION of being a BAD SPORT.
In short, your entire argument is backwards. People should worry less about what other Players are doing that is within the rules and MORE about what agency and choices they have to deal with it.
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Who knows how they decide. The emblem tracks campers thus they can likely see the data. Camping isn't fun for either side, so I never do it. It is bad and they realize it but off memory, I believe they aren't seeing kill success rates high enough to worry.
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To further address this issue, let me talk about some other games. I will do so in broad terms to be polite to them. There are some war games that have Snipers. These guys and gals can get into position and literally kill people the second they try to step out of the building in which they spawned. In some cases, you can be killed the moment you spawn. There are games where you can be blocked and locked and held down for hours at a time. There are games where you can build up your peaceful little farm, never harm a soul and along comes some black-hearted raiders who kill your sheep and cows, burn your crops, rob you blind, and then as an afterthought, kill you.
All of these games have one thing in common; they are PvP games. They rely on the agency of the Players. Rules are clear, and everyone knows that bad things can happen to you at any time. The games aren't at fault, because you CHOOSE to play them even if you don't like getting a bullet in the brain every time you spawn. Those black-hearted raiders aren't at fault for being black-hearted raiders. You knew they existed. You knew it could all fall apart when you decided to be a defenseless farmer. You CHOSE to play that game. You CHOSE your role. You rolled the dice. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Dead by Daylight is a PvP game where some Players take on the roles of people desperately trying to Survive the onslaught of brutal murderers, and some people play the horrific Killers. We all know that the Killers mean harm. We all know that they can choose to camp you, tunnel you, slug you, and/or Mori you. We know they don't have to be fair about it. There is no Geneva Convention in the Entity's Realm. Survivors don't owe Killers anything other than playing by the rules, and vice versa. That means you can click your flashlights to be annoying, body block, choose Survivor friendly maps, and do your crazy SWF builds, using communication outside the game too. The Killer is going to decide how he/she feels it is best to try to destroy you and they are not obligated to any unofficial morays you want to apply to them.
So let me repeat, the only thing people should be remaining true to is:
- Don't cheat, either by hack or lag spikes.
- Don't quit; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
And for the record, giving people grief (or trying to shame them) because you feel they camped or tunneled you is not being gracious in defeat. It would be the opposite. Nobody loves being camped, tunneled, or left on the ground for long periods of time. It means that even if things are going well for the group, it is not going well for you personally. That is something we all endure. Some of us accept it is part of the game and get on with our lives. Some of you just can't stop whining about it.
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Huntress + Deathslinger are such underrated facecampers... Iri Huntress is even better than bubba!
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Lmao go figure. I play killer mostly, but I do play as a survivor quite a bit. Having made it to rank 1 Killer, the amount of SWFs at that level is seriously downplayed by many people. And a good portion of them are sweat/bully squads that will abuse many gameplay mechanics so they can do their toxic BS. And I've gotten messages from those same toxic survivors no matter the outcome.
Basically, survivors need to realize and accept that they are their own worst enemy. They need to accept that comms is a huge advantage in a game that is balanced around no comms. They need to accept that certain behaviors have consequences and complaining about them does nothing in the end because they're not recognizing their own part in creating the problems they complain about. And they need to accept that they need to change their own behavior as well.
Doesn't mean killers are all innocent. I accept my part in my demise as a survivor. I'm probably mildly toxic as a survivor. But I've also had many games where I did absolutely nothing but exist and I get facecamped or tunneled out. At this point, it's a vicious circle of toxicity. But I think if survivors scaled back their toxicity just a bit, they'll have more legs to stand on. I've never had ten games in a row where a killer facecamped. That just sounds ridiculous to me. So it makes me wonder what info is missing. Is OP part of a SWF? If they are, what are they doing every game to ensure the killer facecamps right away? It's this information right here that is always left out of complaint posts.
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Face camping only works if the survivors allow it. 1 death for 3-4 gens is not a fair trade. I feel the issue is the survivors and killers are both inexperienced. Most survivors don't understand when to stop waiting for the killer to leave the hook and do gens. Killers don't realize it is better to hook and go hunting instead of staying at that one hook waiting for them to die. There are killers that face camp to be ######### but I believe the majority of face camping killers are newbs. If more survivors did gens and escaped eventually the newb killers will learn. The killer isn't getting any bp or pips. Provided face camping is countered. If the killer ends up getting 4k because of over altruism then they assume "This seems to be working. I'll keep doing it"
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That's still abusable. Say you're hooking someone, see another survivor nearby, your Whispers is active, so you search the area. Some survivors are very good at sneaking around. So while the killer searches the area for the survivor they KNOW is there somewhere, a chase isn't active and the timer on hook isn't progressing. That's BS, plain and simple. Killers still get penalized for doing exactly this because they're close to the hooked survivor, but they're searching for one they saw nearby just a moment before. They get penalized if they're in chase around a hooked survivor. That's too much power in a survivor's hands and if you add in a SWF? Why even play any more?
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which outfit is better for facecamping with trapper.
"baby trapper" or "frosty eyes"?
I think "frosty eyes" triggers people more into hook diving, but im not sure yet...
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I agree with you. But since the game is balanced around no comms, wouldn't you say that survivors using comms are against the rules of the game? Devs have explicitly stated that is how the game is balanced because they wanted an immersive experience. Granted, they've also acknowledged that people use comms, but still state they're not officially adding comms to the game. That's not what the game is. So by your logic, those survivors are playing outside of the rules, yes?
Other than that, I agree with absolutely everything. I played against many SWFs today and the game gets laughably survivor sided in those instances. Still, I recognized areas where I was doing quite a few things wrong. Did I get annoyed at the blatant disrespect that comes with a SWF? Of course. Did I camp people? Only when the gens were done. Because now that hook is going to be a prime spot for people to be. And with SWFs, I already assume one is at a door when the last gen pops and sure enough, there usually is.
But I'm not complaining about toxic behavior so the devs change something. I would like them to balance the game to account for comms. I think that's the main problem. People really downplay the amount of SWFs playing. Even if it's just a two man, that's an advantage for those two people. But I mostly run into 3-4 man SWFs and it's almost always a sweat fest. It's made me better in areas and it's made me better with every killer. Really, I just want certain perks adjusted on the survivor side to match or be applied at the same time to their killer counterparts. That right there is a huge problem and creates major imbalance and lately, it's been survivor sided.
The fact that they're already talking about nerfing Undying is a bit ridiculous in my eyes, but it is what it is. Keys and Moris should have been nerfed at the same time. Pop and DS should have gotten the same nerf at the same time, plus DS shouldn't be active if the survivor does any offensive action like a gen, healing someone else, healing themselves, or cleansing a totem. No tunneling is going on in that moment, so why keep it? One could make the argument if a killer hits someone, Pop should deactivate, but what if they're hitting someone off a gen they're about to kick? So I'd say no to that adjustment to Pop. But that's just my opinion.
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Because killer is so unfair. I question why they play at all though. This game is in desperate need of a new director tbh
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Well, I totally agree with you. But I must say, I recently had the misfortune of running into a facecamping Leatherface. The first hooked survivor (who died on his first hook, ofc) had Kindred, so we all knew we had to leave him (he was in the basement, and the killer was hiding where the chest usually spawns) and kept working on gens. In the end, I completed the last gen, while the other survivor was downed. The killer came after me and, guess what? He had NoeD. I died on my first hook, without ever being hit other than in that occasion. (Map was Lery's, not very clear for totem spawns).The thing is, such things should not have a reason not to do them, as someone else suggests. Those things should be punished, outside of certain instances. You are effectively cutting out a player from a match, much sooner than it should happen. It literally means that you are helding the game hostage for that player, until he dies.
People who are half decent at playing don't usually run Whispers, though. And even if that is a thing, I don't really see the issue. What a killer should be doing is stopping gens from being repaired. To do that, he wants to have as few survs on gens as possible. If he doesn't manage to find said survivor in a short time (which is already kinda ridiculous, since this game is not really built around stealth. Although it is possible, it is never gonna fully work) he should move onto some gens. That means there will be one hooked survivor + at least a rescuer = 2 people not working on gens, for the time it takes to unhook + heal. As much as SWF is concerned, I always wanted to see it reduced to a max of 2 people, but still. SWF and camping are different things. SWF is hard to face (although not always), more challenging and sometimes frustrating. Camping is just cheap and toxic. SWF is making things hard for the killer, not having him in a corner, unable to move. If that was a thing, you could get away with the comparison. But it really isn't. There is a reason why one of the categories killers get points for is called "Hunting" and not "Staring at a survivor you hooked until he dies, because you know you won't be able to get a kill otherwise".
Of course, EGC camping is another thing. Still kinda cheap, but not the same thing.
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I will say I don't understand why people still play Bubba like that. I've never played Insidious Bubba. That's just not my style. I played him the same before as I do now, but his buff was SO good. There's literally no reason to be Insidious Bubba anymore. Even his add-on reworks were mostly good. Wish I could say the same for Billy. They absolutely butchered his add-ons. Most of them are just miniversions of his own perks now. A few of Bubba's are like that, but not the majority.
And I wouldn't agree with SWF being limited to two people. If I'm survivor, I'm usually in a full party and it's fun as hell. But we're also not a sweat squad or constantly communicate where the killer is or abuse things like Object. The times I've ran Object, I've not even communicated where the killer was. I've told who it was when the match starts or if they're hovering around a hook, but that's about it.
I just think the SWF problem needs to be considered when they're balancing the game or looking at perk stats. Saying Object isn't a problem at all because the Object rarely escapes is a very gross understatement and doesn't take into account everything. Sure, stats say the Object doesn't escape much, but what about their teammates? What about when they're in a SWF, which they usually are, what's the escape rate for everyone then? I played a game on Ormond against a full SWF with TWO Objects and I was Freddy. I couldn't do ######### until I caught one slipping up and basically camped to make them come to me and in the end I still only got one. For as good of a killer as Freddy is and can be, and I am pretty good with him, it was absolutely insane that I was shut down by a team abusing a perk and comms like that. Definitely a learning experience though and one that made me unfortunately take lobbies of people that are mostly or all on the same platform very seriously and I go overkill if I'm able to with the killer I have since we can't switch anymore.
And that's another thing too. They said they were bringing back MMR, so they're not allowing killers to switch in lobby anymore. Still not back and survivors able to switch to a survivor with strong perks or keys. Another example of the imbalance the devs create with their shortsighted ways.
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The SWF's 5th Perk: Comms is problematic. If you go back through my history you will find that I'm a strong advocate for breaking Solo and Team into two different Ques. I think it would be win/win for Players and Behavior. I think most people would play in both Ques, i.e. with their friends when available, and Solo when not. See below:
SOLO QUE
- No more than two Survivors may enter a Lobby together, as a 2-Person SWF won't tilt the game.
- No Survivor information (identities) will be shown until the end of the match to prevent setting up Comms on the fly.
TEAM QUE
- Teams must either be 3-Person or 4-Person, and no Solo will be added to round out a 3-Person Team.
- An additional Generator is required to power the Generators, i.e. a 3-Person team will need (5) Generators, and 4-Person team will need (6) Generators.
- The Killer will have an additional Perk Slot unlocked for games in this Que only.
CUSTOM GAME
- Nothing changes for custom games as they are fine, and already let you play with your friends.
Once Solo and Team are split into different Ques, the problematic Perks which were created and made very strong to help balance the SWF imbalance could be tweaked and made more reasonable so they no longer strangle Solo. In other words, the extra objectives and Killer Perk will balance the SWF so the Perks don't have to carry that load. That would be great as any Perk designed to balance the SWF Gen-Rush was 10x for Solo.
Moreover, having a Team Que opens up many lucrative opportunities for Behavior. See below:
- Custom Cosmetics so Teams can have matching jackets, outfits, logos, etc. can be sold.
- Team Ques are a basis of being setup for DbD run Tournaments which can cost like a Rift Pass and have prizes.
So going back to your original question, do I see SWF as cheating? No. Since the DEV had already given it their tacit approval, it is just part of the game. I suspect they know it is impossible to police in the current Que setup, and so regardless of what they really think, that is the only option they have unless the adopt a suggestion like mine. While I think SWF abide by the letter of the law, I do not think they abide by the spirit of it. I think they are a problem. I think it should be addressed in a way that allows people to play with their friends, but not gain a competitive edge. In any event, since SWF currently is not against the rules as set by Behavior, playing in one does not make those within it "bad sports."
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I have a solution to offer.
As long as the killer is within a certain range (10-16m) of a hooked survivor, they receive struggle credit on their next pickup equivalent to the duration of time the killer was within 10-20 meters of them while hooked. That way, it’s a deterrent for killer because it can be considered a “free decisive” that they themselves will have given to a survivor.
The sacrifice timer should also progress 15-20% slower while within 16 meters of the killer
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I just quickly want to give a shout out to the nancy that was just lying underneath her hooked teammate so I couldn't pick her up. Guess I'm just going to face camp you cheryl, sorry.
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Slightly off topic but I have to disagree about "People who are half decent never use Whispers"
It is an amazing tracking tool. Better than BBQ. It's on all the time. No special requirements to get use out of it and there is no way to hide from it. Most of all it tells you when an area is empty so you know not to waste time searching. Doubles for trapper because if no one is around they probably won't see you plant that trap. Unless OoO but that's another issue.
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I agree with this and of course people will camp and be toxic and ######### like that if the game allows. Don’t hate the player, hate the game (or developers of the game). But that’s the main issue, it’s a game that’s meant to be fun and if there’s aspects that can make the game terrible and boring to play surely that should be changed and would it be changed if people didn’t complain. Cod had a multiplayer map where the spawns were really bad so everyone was getting spawn killed a lot, people complained and guess what, the game developers changed the game so that this bad experience of being spawn killed doesn’t happen anymore. The main issue isn’t the people doing it, because let’s be honest most humans are dicks and will always take advantage of whatever they can. The issue is that nothing is done about something in the game that ruins the fun and experience people have playing it. Imagine the devs made a couple infinite loops that ruined the game for killers because you literally can’t do nothing about it. Would you not complain or just say, oh it’s part of the game can’t do anything about it
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I guess where you and I differ is that the game IS fun for me. I play both Killer and Survivor. I run into the same things you do. I deal with them. I believe it is that our expectations are fundamentally different. I don't believe that any game is fun. You bring the fun with you. If you accept the parameters of the game, get down with the challenge, and don't let it tilt you. The fun is in the journey, not the destination. We all have goals of course. We all want to be the best, but those of us who have the most fun, aren't only getting our enjoyment from feeding the ego. I enjoy a game I lose, even when I'm camped, tunneled, and given the Mori. I know those things exist. I know the risk.
For example, in the real world, every person who free climbs, climbs mountains, etc. knows that at any moment a simple mistake can kill them. They know they even when they do everything right, the mountain might still kill them. They climb the mountain because it is there. Do you follow? In the real world, my sport of choice is Fencing. Tournaments for Fencing are kind of a grab bag, not unlike Dead by Daylight. To maintain your rating you must constantly be competing and winning in tournaments that have other Fencers with the desired rating. What this means is really good Fencers often have their ratings slip simply because of not having the time to maintain it. So you might end up competing against a bunch of beginners or someone who once earned medals. Do you follow? One doesn't throw down one's blade and stomp off the strip screaming about the unfairness of it all. You put your head down and say, damn straight, I get to take on this legend!
I don't believe it is anyone's job to make the game fun for you or for me. I bring my own fun. Hopefully, we will all have fun (win or lose) for love of the game itself. Do I always agree with the DEV? No. I submit suggestions from time to time, but I don't come to whine about things. I suspect that keeping the game as balanced as possible is MORE important to those whose jobs rely on it than it is to me (or any Player). That is their concern. I control the things I can control. There are Campers in the game? I work on how I will deal with them; it doesn't involve venting here. There is a difference between a rant, screed, grief, shaming, and actual constructive suggestions. Sometimes you might be saying the same thing, but it is all in the wording. Delivery matters. I don't believe for a second most of the damn posts here about Camping, Tunneling, NOED, or the Mori are really directed at the DEV. They are just people throwing a tantrum and hoping to grief/shame other Players.
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I agree with most of what you say, I have fun playing this game most of the time and for me playing a game is about having fun and being able to actually play the game. I’ve played many other computer games and I have fun basically every time I play it because it’s designed in a way to allow you to have fun. Rocket league for example, a game I play where I’ve never had a game where I can say it wasn’t fun. I’ve been absolutely destroyed in games but I can still play the game, have fun and learn. The thing with camping is it’s completely out of your control as a survivor. There’s nothing you can do if a killer wants to camp and ruin a game. Now imagine getting facecamping games multiple times in a row? If you still think you would have fun then damn I wish I could be entertained so much by doing nothing, I wouldn’t even need to play games anymore.
The last part I disagree with, it is someone’s job to make the game fun, and that is the developers of the game. I’m sure even you agree that facecamping can make the game boring for every player in that match and doesn’t benefit anyone. So why shouldn’t something be done about. And yeah most people on this forum just whine and cry for literally anything, but at the same time a complaint doesn’t need a solution with it to be constructive, just pointing out something that could be improved is without having a suggestion is still constructive
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Just do gens.
I know it's unfair and it sucks alot to be the one camped, but I try to think about how bad it is for the killer to do this.
They are likely to lose a pip
They don't get many blood points
They lose the game (1 kill vs 3 escapes)
Act like you don't care in endgame chat, and they'll think...Oh..
It works and is a good way to look at something so annoying :))
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Not really, no; I don't agree. I feel getting a Survivor off the hook under the nose of a Squatter (what I call face campers) is a challenge in and of itself. I assure you it can be done. I've been that Killer at the end of the game when the rest opened the gates and came back to get their last teammate. I've been a Survivor who unhooked someone and took the protection hit and provided the Borrowed Time. Is it easy? Hell no. Is it fun? Yeah. It is just another challenge, and a hard one at that.
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This would be abused. For example, it's endgame and the Killer has nothing to do but stick around the last hook. The Survivor just gets out for free in that scenario.
It's not like the devs don't know this problem exists. They've tried testing anti-camping mechanics before. It's just that the solutions they come up with get abused by Survivors, so they can't be implemented.
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Why do you all say that facecamping is one kill? Whenever I tried to facecamp against SWF, they always save the hooked person. Is there an actual way to stop them from saving the hooked one completely or what?
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I like this because it gives the option of what kind of experience you want. I know that I need to approach SWFs more calmly and not get as angry about it if they start being toxic or just straight up steamrolling me. It's not their fault the devs couldn't foresee survivors using comms when comms are readily available through a console's menu screen or Discord on PC. They're only responsible for how they conduct themselves and let's face it, some people simply don't care about good sportsmanship. We all see it with the survivors that DC before even getting hooked or killers that facecamp at 5 gens.
And SWFs have helped me improve at the game, but certain killers that I'd really like to practice with without some team smelling blood in the water and swarming me with flashlights, body blocks, and teabags. Learning Nurse was especially hard because I picked her up when I hit purple ranks and still use her in rotation. And I'm still not that great with her against sweat squads. Those games make me question using her lol
And yeah, I'll agree with your logic on my question to you. Really I was just interested in how you'd answer it. That's why I stated I'm more in favor of the game being rebalanced and taking comms into consideration.
And thanks for just not being dismissive and saying I should just 'git gud'. That's what we're all trying to do, which is why your suggestion is a really good one in that regard.
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Seeing as how the times I do camp when gens are done are rarely successful, I'd say it comes down to the killer you're using and their downing power and simple timing. A Bubba squatting is obviously really dangerous because he swings back and forth and he has three tokens for the chainsaw, meaning he is going to keep going until everything moving in the general area is on the ground. Killers with instant downs are much more efficient at face camping than killers that HAVE to do two hits.
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8/10 facecamps for me have been console players. They also tend to be the ones always shaking their head after a survivor runs them for like 3 gens; and then just tunnelling them into the ground ignoring absolutely everyone else.
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Even if I camp with Bubba, they still successfully finish the unhook animation. Yes, they both then lie on the ground, but it changes nothing: the unhook is complete and the unhooked guy now has his classic 60 seconds of god-mode, so you have to hook the other one. It's the same as a simple trade which two-hit killers have to do. So what is so deadly about it then? There is no way to stop them from finishing the unhook animation completely. Or is there something I don't know about?
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