Why would Clown EVER lure with antidotes?
"Or you may want to lure a Survivor to an area with no pallets remaining with a juicy Antidote. But remember: If the two gases collide, they will neutralize each other and disappear."
This makes no sense. Why would I ever run to a bottle thrown by the killer? I'm not going to assume Clown is gonna toss me a bottle to benefit me.
I understand the idea of the tonic being a negative, and the antidote being a positive, but...The fact that the yellow bottle was thrown by the killer MAKES it a negative, even if it has a positive effect. I'm just simply not going to run to the yellow gas because the KILLER threw it. His intent is negative. Thus, it's no longer a positive to me. What IS positive are MY actions, and I'm going to simply ignore his bottle because it's meant to benefit him, not me. The only way I'd run into an antidote is where I'd be forced to, like at a loop. And he's probably going to have some type of strategy to make sure HE gets the benefit of that antidote and not me.
I'm never going to see yellow gas and think to myself "Sweet, thanks Clown! I'm so glad you just threw a bottle to help me get to the next tile!"
The argument could be that THAT'S the mindgame. By throwing that positive, the survivors are going to assume that it's not going to help them and that Clown is just trying to lure them, so they'll stay away from it.
My argument to that: If I want to keep a survivor away from an area (or make an area dangerous) why wouldn't I just...throw my negative bottle?
I would love for someone to explain to me how anyone but someone who just bought the game is ever going to run towards a bottle thrown by the killer. I see any experienced survivor player being happy that Clown completely wasted a bottle, and then continuing on with their loop.
I'd like to add that I do see other uses for the antidote (as a very slightly mobility boost, and in a chase), but this whole luring thing? Cmon. You can't be serious.
Watching this video back....
"So, if there's a dead-end over here, and there's a pallet over here, you throw a yellow here, and the survivor's like 'Do I go for the pallet? Or do I go for the yellow'"
The pallet. The pallet is always going to be the answer. The example shown in that video isn't realistic past rank 20. A survivor runs past an extremely strong long-wall jungle gym pallet into yellow gas that THE KILLER THREW, that only gives a 10% speed boost. The answer is literally always the pallet. The pallet is there to help survivors. The gas was thrown by the killer. Thus, the pallet is the answer. How could anyone realistically assume that the Clown would throw something to help them, so they ditch a pallet, which the literal purpose of a pallet is to ALWAYS help you. Please, please, please help me in understanding how this makes an ounce of sense.
Comments
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Yeah, the only thing I see his antidote being useful for is map mobility. Even then it kinda sucks at that because it's only 10%, maybe better with addons, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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They mean in the sense if Clown creates a damned if they do, damned if they don’t scenario. If Clown has been smart and placed a tonic at one part of a jungle gym, and an antidote in another part with the intention that the survivor doubles back to avoid the tonic and hopefully out run Clown by using Antidote, only for it to be a red herring and still allow Clown an easy hit.
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I see it being usable in chase. Map mobility kinda sucks with it, I'm pretty sure the boost is equivalent to base Wraith speed, which is nothing. Addons could change yeah, but I see it being more usable in chase.
Then again, PTB isn't open, so we'll see.
I just cannot, for the life of me, get how the designer believes people are going to ditch pallets for an effect that the killer threw. This is mind-boggling.
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I’m a little surprised that as a Clown player you really can’t see the devious amount of set ups that can be done with tonics in one spot and antidotes in other spots.
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It's coming from the devs, so I'm not surprised. I'm sure a lot of them seat around with pens and pencils wondering " what if...?" instead of playing their game and trying to see if there is anything wrong with their picture
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I see what you're saying, I still don't think it's what they're saying at all
"So, if there's a dead-end over here, and there's a pallet over here, you throw a yellow here, and the survivor's like 'Do I go for the pallet? Or do I go for the yellow'"
The example they pair with this is Clown randomly chucking a yellow bottle, then a Jeff runs past an extremely safe long wall JG pallet and into the gas, which is in the middle of nowhere. Like...what?
Now, what you're saying makes more sense, but why not just predrop the pallet in that case? Using the yellow as a lure to NOT predrop and try to loop the JG? If so, again, I just can't see this thought process of "This thing the killer threw out was meant to benefit me! Thanks Clown!" ever actually being the case.
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I don't play him religiously, blight's my true main.
Clown is just my guilty pleasure
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Yea I don't get this logic either. I'm 100% going to run to the area with a pallet and not a ######### dead zone. What survivor would ever choose to run a dead zone? Sure you get 10% movement speed but so does he so the effect is basically moot, you're literally just running to a dead zone and giving him a free hit. I'll take my chances that I'll reach the pallet through the tonic cloud thanks.
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Exactly. Even if there's a pallet that you can reach going through the antidote, he's ALSO going to go through it and move faster than you. Why would you ever leave guaranteed safety for a 10% movement speed boost that the killer wants you to go through..?
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Possibly a survivor that sees a tonic gas cloud between them and the pallet/vault they were intending to reach
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######### that. My ass is running through that cloud. Less of a chance to get hit AND I'm in a safe place whether or not I do. And if I have Dead Hard then I can take that risk easily while injured, unless they didn't change his exhaust add-ons at all (which I doubt they are honestly stupid).
Like explain what would be the benefit to run AWAY from a loop ever? I makes no sense to me. You get hit in a dead zone, you're still in a dead zone. You have no defense. You get hit at a loop you still have a defense.
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I mean... I can already achieve this now with Tonic. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve successfully diverted a survivor away from the shack. Many survivors get flustered in the moment of trying to avoid being hit.
Now with the antidote in Clowns kit I can also make sure I know where they’re probably going next, this includes survivors successfully tricked into heading towards the antidote, and those clever enough to not fall for the trap because their remaining evasive options will be limited without actually turning back towards me.
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I don't think you're ever going to lure a good survivor into an unsafe location with the antidote.
That said, I think there will be some uses for the Antidote in situations where you can use the speed boost but the survivor can't go there without getting hit, like dropping it under your feet as you're going around the edge of a loop to reach the survivor before he gets to a pallet or window, or moonwalking around a blind corner faster so you can hit the survivor before they can react.
Or even putting the gas somewhere to make the survivor THINK you're going though it to get the boost, and baiting them into vaulting into you instead.
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Hmm,i was thinking that you could maybe also use the antidote to bait them to use specific loops that you want to get rid off.
For example,the survivor runs towards a filler pallet but you throw an antidote towards the killer shack that is behind that to make them move towards the shack instead of the filler pallet that they wanted to loop so that you can get rid of the god pallet faster (maybe throw a tonic at the filler pallet to make that bait even better).
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No one above yellow ranks is going to run to a yellow cloud if there's a pallet or window closer.. devs must have a really low opinion of survivor ability if they think survivors will run to a speed boost instead of continuing their braindead looping
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I'm shocked so many people don't think this is an extremely good buff. I genuinely believe will be shocked at how much better he can be by this.
There will be a lot of creative ways to use his bottles. The only thing I need to know is how quickly he can swap bottles. If it's instant then I think he will be fairly decent.
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Devs bad, give upvote
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The swap between the bottle types is pretty much instant (look at 6:10).
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I never saw this video. I'll watch it later but if it's instant then it will be extremely good.
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That’s very plausible. Especially if a tonic is at the loop you want to discourage them from.
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Yeah, the whole bait idea seemed absurdly dumb to me as no one with sense is going to think that for some reason the Clown is going to buff the survivor speed and not follow them through the gas too.
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That's not the point OP is trying to make; everyone knows that 10 percent movespeed for 7 seconds will be useful.
We're worried about the devs' thought process. If they think that the best application for these bottles is as a piece of cheese to lure survivors then I'm sure they have some very questionable takes on game balance.
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That's a fair point. I never saw the video come up on YouTube for me so I missed it.
This was a rare discussion where I replied to the title and not the full thing. I'll get watching the video soon then I'll fully understand what the craic with it is.
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I never understood the scenario they described. It doesn’t seem possible to bait someone for a speed boost when realistically they could go for the pallet which is safer.
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