Lock this thread please!
MY DBD HOURS: Roughly 600 Hours
Problem: In Spoiler
(What's Dead by Daylight?)
Let's look at Nurse and Billy:
-They are used a lot at high red ranks because they are stronger than a single survivor. Nurse is so strong that a single survivor only has a quarter of her strength and she is the ONLY killer that makes Dead by Daylight a asymmetrical horror game since a single survivor can't just 1v1 her - They need teamwork! I'm stressing the word "TEAMWORK" so hard because that should be the ONLY way for a group of survivors to overwhelm the killer. A single survivor shouldn't be able to overwhelm the killer.
Solution: (Make killers four times as strong than a single survivor & give survivors more stealth opinions)
Yes, you heard that, make killers four times as strong than a single survivor! How can we do that exactly? Well a good starting point is to make killers less add-on dependent since a killer shouldn't need a add-ons to be viable at high ranks! Another point is make killers have some sort of effect in a chase since their goal is to end a chase as fast as possible and punish a survivor for not hiding! The only time I see a survivor hiding is when it is nurse because she WILL punish you for not being stealthy which it should be with every killer! Now, give survivors more stealth opinions, perks, and environment hiding areas so they can avoid getting into a chase! Survivors need to be afraid of the killer since the killer is four times as strong than a single survivor!
Comments
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The problem with the game is all of the killer mains are a joke and shouldn't be playing0
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If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
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Umm, wow rude... can you quote my OP from where I said that at please because if I remember correctly I said "One survivor being equal in strength to a killer is a PROBLEM".Dreamnomad said:If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
Additionally you should drop the attitude because it's not needed here. Thanks! 13 -
do not be rude on our forumDreamnomad said:If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
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In all honesty killers can be strong without addons but they lack ending a chase quick if it's not one of the top killers. Stealth should be encouraged more though instead of ring around the rosie and if you are wanting to take on the killer head on then it should be difficult and needing lots practice before doing it
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Eh, he probably misunderstood somethings however that's still no reason to act like that... seriously lol.Lowbei said:
do not be rude on our forumDreamnomad said:If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
Back on topic, do you agree with my OP @Lowbei?1 -
@Nickenzie To fair, you did say that currently one survivor is as strong as a killer. For some reason, I can't grab a post-quote from your spoilers, but at the end of the first paragraph in the first spoiler, you wrote: however currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!
@Dreamnomad strongly disagreed with your assessment, and stated his feelings if you actually believe one survivor is as strong as a killer.
You then replied:
@Nickenzie said: can you quote my OP from where I said that at please because if I remember correctly I said "One survivor being equal in strength to a killer is a PROBLEM".
Then you remembered only partially. Because while your entire post says why it's a problem, you did, indeed, state that currently one survivor is as strong as the killer.
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absolutely. survivors should be punished for not hiding, in this hide and seek based game, instead of rewarded for pallet looping. i often have maxd boldness at the end of a big chase, and the gens are usually just about finished.Nickenzie said:
Eh, he probably misunderstood somethings however that's still no reason to act like that... seriously lol.Lowbei said:
do not be rude on our forumDreamnomad said:If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
Back on topic, do you agree with my OP @Lowbei?1 -
Yeah, that's the main idea of my thread. Dead by Daylight should be a asymmetrical horror but right now it isn't one, sadly. A survivor shouldn't be as strong as a killer - That's the problem because survivors are right now when it shouldn't. Additionally, if he continued reading my thread, he would have seen that I disagreed with this idea of survivors being as strong as a killer.Kilmeran said:@Nickenzie To fair, you did say that currently one survivor is as strong as a killer. For some reason, I can't grab a post-quote from your spoilers, but at the end of the first paragraph in the first spoiler, you wrote: however currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!
@Dreamnomad strongly disagreed with your assessment, and stated his feelings if you actually believe one survivor is as strong as a killer.
You then replied:
@Nickenzie said: can you quote my OP from where I said that at please because if I remember correctly I said "One survivor being equal in strength to a killer is a PROBLEM".
Then you remembered only partially. Because while your entire post says why it's a problem, you did, indeed, state that currently one survivor is as strong as the killer.
Post edited by NMCKE on0 -
@Nickenzie said:
So, I think I have enough evidence and experience to voice my opinion about what's wrong with the game. Before I start, I'm gonna say how many hours I have which is something I usually don't say because it really doesn't matter but I'm going to anyways to show you that I know what I'm talking about!MY DBD HOURS: Roughly 600 Hours
Problem: In Spoiler
(What's Dead by Daylight?)
(Spoiler)Solution: (Make killers four times as strong than a single survivor & give survivors more stealth opinions)
(Spoiler)I've never seen a game won on survivor side that was 1v3 where the killer didn't just meme and let them win. You can't balance the game around 1 vs 4 in terms of power you have to balance it on terms of mistakes and that's what survivors need is more opportunities to make mistakes, they need to fix skillchecks to have random inputs instead of just space and they need to put more skillchecks into the game. Plus stealth is boring for both killer and survivor, killers don't like having to check around every corner and every locker and being a crab person is not ideal for survivors.
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Ignore this post. The forum is for some reason trying to force me to double or triple post.
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Damn it and again.
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@Nickenzie said: Additionally, if he continued reading my thread, he would have seen that I disagreed with this idea if survivors being as strong as a killer.
You're misunderstanding his reply completely. You stated that currently one survivor is equal to the killer. I pointed out where. He replied, in his own way, that you were wrong in stating that currently one survivor is equal to the killer.
Whether or not a survivor should be or not is irrelevant to his reply. Whether or not you later stated that you disagreed with the idea is irrelevant to the reply.
You clearly and blatantly stated that as of right now, a single survivor is equal to the killer in Dead by Daylight. To which he replied that you were wrong. A single killer is not currently equal to the killer. He called your entire power assessment inaccurate.
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Survivors won't be weak if they work together, that's the point of a asymmetrical game. Survivors need to work together to overwhelm the killer, that's called teamwork and that's how a survivor should be able to have a fair chance against a killer including nurse. When you see high nurse gameplay, you'll see survivors getting absolutely destroyed because survivors aren't used to working together which was how the game was designed. Survivors are so used to being as strong as the killer that when they face a nurse that requires them to work together, the survivor team falls apart because they aren't used to working together. The power role will overwhelm the minior roles because again, teamwork is necessary to overwhelm the power role. No teamwork, you'll lose. Period.akbays35 said:@Nickenzie said:
So, I think I have enough evidence and experience to voice my opinion about what's wrong with the game. Before I start, I'm gonna say how many hours I have which is something I usually don't say because it really doesn't matter but I'm going to anyways to show you that I know what I'm talking about!MY DBD HOURS: Roughly 600 Hours
Problem: In Spoiler
(What's Dead by Daylight?)
(Spoiler)Solution: (Make killers four times as strong than a single survivor & give survivors more stealth opinions)
(Spoiler)I've never seen a game won on survivor side that was 1v3 where the killer didn't just meme and let them win. You can't balance the game around 1 vs 4 in terms of power you have to balance it on terms of mistakes and that's what survivors need is more opportunities to make mistakes, they need to fix skillchecks to have random inputs instead of just space and they need to put more skillchecks into the game. Plus stealth is boring for both killer and survivor, killers don't like having to check around every corner and every locker and being a crab person is not ideal for survivors.
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look at all the entitlement in on thread lol0
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@Nickenzie said: Survivors won't be weak if they work together, that's the point of a asymmetrical game. Survivors need to work together to overwhelm the killer, that's called teamwork and that's how a survivor should be able to have a fair chance against a killer including nurse. When you see high nurse gameplay, you'll see survivors getting absolutely destroyed because survivors aren't used to working together which was how the game was designed. Survivors are so used to being as strong as the killer that when they face a nurse that requires them to work together, the survivor team falls apart because they aren't used to working together. The power role will overwhelm the minior roles because again, teamwork is necessary to overwhelm the power role. No teamwork, you'll lose. Period.
And now I'll reply to the actual topic at hand. I'll be blunt. Not no, but hell no.
Have you ever played a heavy teamwork reliant game? I have. I spent 2+ years in Overwatch since launch, and time in Paladins, as well. And let me tell you: Unless you have a stack of friends that can queue up with you and make a full-team, or you're an Esport team that regularly plays and practices together, a heavy teamwork game absolutely will not work once it includes a team of random players queuing on their own.
It simply falls apart. Even with Voice Chat in those other games (Overwatch and Paladins) it doesn't work because a majority of the time, random people don't want to talk and coordinate with random people. And then you get the toxicity of those who expect you to play their way, their tactics, and running the Perks (or hero for the role in those games) of their preference. Or all holy hell breaks loose in the match. Especially when a single bad teammate can cost you the entire match.
What you propose always looks great on paper, but never plays out when random teams are involved.
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I don't understand, I said in my thread that a survivor being as strong as the killer is not okay! What's the problem in that statement? Here's my quote from the thread and I'll highlight that a minor role being as strong as the power role is not how a asymmetrical game should work:Kilmeran said:@Nickenzie said: Additionally, if he continued reading my thread, he would have seen that I disagreed with this idea if survivors being as strong as a killer.
You're misunderstanding his reply completely. You stated that currently one survivor is equal to the killer. I pointed out where. He replied, in his own way, that you were wrong in stating that currently one survivor is equal to the killer.
Whether or not a survivor should be or not is irrelevant to his reply. Whether or not you later stated that you disagreed with the idea is irrelevant to the reply.
You clearly and blatantly stated that as of right now, a single survivor is equal to the killer in Dead by Daylight. To which he replied that you were wrong. A single killer is not currently equal to the killer. He called your entire power assessment inaccurate.
"Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" Why did I say "Which goes against what a asymmetrical horror game is"? That is because survivors are supposed to work together to overwhelm the killer, a single survivor (Minor Role) shouldn't be able to overwhelm the killer (Power Role) in a asymmetrical horror game. Did I clear up any confusion? @Kilmeran
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@Nickenzie said:
Dreamnomad said:If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
Umm, wow rude... can you quote my OP from where I said that at please because if I remember correctly I said "One survivor being equal in strength to a killer is a PROBLEM".
Additionally you should drop the attitude because it's not needed here. Thanks!
Sure, I'll quote you: "however currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" This is the entire foundation of your argument which is absolutely absurd. One survivor is nothing. A single survivor has virtually 0 chance of making it out if they have to work on generators. Even when you have 2 survivors and generators need to be finished, it typically turns into a game of find the hatch and hope the other guy dies first.
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@Nickenzie said:
akbays35 said:@Nickenzie said:
So, I think I have enough evidence and experience to voice my opinion about what's wrong with the game. Before I start, I'm gonna say how many hours I have which is something I usually don't say because it really doesn't matter but I'm going to anyways to show you that I know what I'm talking about!
MY DBD HOURS: Roughly 600 Hours Problem: In Spoiler
(What's Dead by Daylight?)
(Spoiler)
Solution: (Make killers four times as strong than a single survivor & give survivors more stealth opinions)
(Spoiler)
I've never seen a game won on survivor side that was 1v3 where the killer didn't just meme and let them win. You can't balance the game around 1 vs 4 in terms of power you have to balance it on terms of mistakes and that's what survivors need is more opportunities to make mistakes, they need to fix skillchecks to have random inputs instead of just space and they need to put more skillchecks into the game. Plus stealth is boring for both killer and survivor, killers don't like having to check around every corner and every locker and being a crab person is not ideal for survivors.
Survivors won't be weak if they work together, that's the point of a asymmetrical game. Survivors need to work together to overwhelm the killer, that's called teamwork and that's how a survivor should be able to have a fair chance against a killer including nurse. When you see high nurse gameplay, you'll see survivors getting absolutely destroyed because survivors aren't used to working together which was how the game was designed. Survivors are so used to being as strong as the killer that when they face a nurse that requires them to work together, the survivor team falls apart because they aren't used to working together. The power role will overwhelm the minior roles because again, teamwork is necessary to overwhelm the power role. No teamwork, you'll lose. Period.
I'm saying make the game harder for survivors not easier for killers. A killer makes a mistake and he loses a survivor, loses pressure, if a survivor makes a mistake he can fall back on his/her team mates. I do agree that some of the killers need buffs and fixes to bring them in line, but the game on the survivor end needs to be more difficult, there's such a low skill ceiling for survivor compared to killer.
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That's why I want built-in voice comms in Dead by Daylight. It solve your problem instantly because survivors will now be able to work together and have a fair chance to overwhelm the power role.Kilmeran said:@Nickenzie said: Survivors won't be weak if they work together, that's the point of a asymmetrical game. Survivors need to work together to overwhelm the killer, that's called teamwork and that's how a survivor should be able to have a fair chance against a killer including nurse. When you see high nurse gameplay, you'll see survivors getting absolutely destroyed because survivors aren't used to working together which was how the game was designed. Survivors are so used to being as strong as the killer that when they face a nurse that requires them to work together, the survivor team falls apart because they aren't used to working together. The power role will overwhelm the minior roles because again, teamwork is necessary to overwhelm the power role. No teamwork, you'll lose. Period.
And now I'll reply to the actual topic at hand. I'll be blunt. Not no, but hell no.
Have you ever played a heavy teamwork reliant game? I have. I spent 2+ years in Overwatch since launch, and time in Paladins, as well. And let me tell you: Unless you have a stack of friends that can queue up with you and make a full-team, or you're an Esport team that regularly plays and practices together, a heavy teamwork game absolutely will not work once it includes a team of random players queuing on their own.
It simply falls apart. Even with Voice Chat in those other games (Overwatch and Paladins) it doesn't work because a majority of the time, random people don't want to talk and coordinate with random people. And then you get the toxicity of those who expect you to play their way, their tactics, and running the Perks (or hero for the role in those games) of their preference. Or all holy hell breaks loose in the match. Especially when a single bad teammate can cost you the entire match.
What you propose always looks great on paper, but never plays out when random teams are involved.
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@Nickenzie said: I don't understand, I said in my thread that a survivor being as strong as the killer is not okay! What's the problem in that statement? Here's my quote from the thread and I'll highlight that a minor role being as strong as the power role is not how a asymmetrical game should work:
"Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" Why did I say "Which goes against what a asymmetrical horror game is"? That is because survivors are supposed to work together to overwhelm the killer, a single survivor (Minor Role) shouldn't be able to overwhelm the killer (Power Role) in a asymmetrical horror game. Did I clear up any confusion? @KilmeranBecause, again, you are focusing on something different than the point he replied to. It doesn't matter that you said: "Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" But that you even stated: "Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer . . . "
Period, that point right there is what he replied about. His reply meant that you are wrong and that currently one survivor is NOT as strong as the killer. He was replying that that assessment, period, was wrong about Dead by Daylight. It doesn't exist. No survivor is currently as strong as the killer.
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Have you been in high ranks? Survivors can easily dominate a killer by themselves in a 1v4 game because survivors, let me word this better, "Are stronger or as strong as the killer". If that isn't enough to convince you that survivors are way too overpowered then I don't know how to explain it better to you, sorry.Kilmeran said:@Nickenzie said: I don't understand, I said in my thread that a survivor being as strong as the killer is not okay! What's the problem in that statement? Here's my quote from the thread and I'll highlight that a minor role being as strong as the power role is not how a asymmetrical game should work:
"Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" Why did I say "Which goes against what a asymmetrical horror game is"? That is because survivors are supposed to work together to overwhelm the killer, a single survivor (Minor Role) shouldn't be able to overwhelm the killer (Power Role) in a asymmetrical horror game. Did I clear up any confusion? @KilmeranBecause, again, you are focusing on something different than the point he replied to. It doesn't matter that you said: "Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" But that you even stated: "Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer . . . "
Period, that point right there is what he replied about. His reply meant that you are wrong and that currently one survivor is NOT as strong as the killer. He was replying that that assessment, period, was wrong about Dead by Daylight. It doesn't exist. No survivor is currently as strong as the killer.
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@Kilmeran said:
@Nickenzie said: I don't understand, I said in my thread that a survivor being as strong as the killer is not okay! What's the problem in that statement? Here's my quote from the thread and I'll highlight that a minor role being as strong as the power role is not how a asymmetrical game should work:
"Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" Why did I say "Which goes against what a asymmetrical horror game is"? That is because survivors are supposed to work together to overwhelm the killer, a single survivor (Minor Role) shouldn't be able to overwhelm the killer (Power Role) in a asymmetrical horror game. Did I clear up any confusion? @KilmeranBecause, again, you are focusing on something different than the point he replied to. It doesn't matter that you said: "Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" But that you even stated: "Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer . . . "
Period, that point right there is what he replied about. His reply meant that you are wrong and that currently one survivor is NOT as strong as the killer. He was replying that that assessment, period, was wrong about Dead by Daylight. It doesn't exist. No survivor is currently as strong as the killer.
@Nickenzie is right. Many killers get destroyed at high ranks no matter how optimally you play sometimes. You can do well but right now one survivor can 1v1 the killer at high ranks. That's why I never really bother chasing that person and look for the weak link of the group
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Oh, I see where you are coming from now, took me a second but I'm talking about a chase. A survivor can run a killer for a while, while the other survivors do generators. The single survivor shouldn't be able to do that to a killer because the killer is supposed to be four times as strong than that survivor, that's the point I'm making. Sorry if worded my thread oddlyDreamnomad said:@Nickenzie said:
Dreamnomad said:If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
Umm, wow rude... can you quote my OP from where I said that at please because if I remember correctly I said "One survivor being equal in strength to a killer is a PROBLEM".
Additionally you should drop the attitude because it's not needed here. Thanks!
Sure, I'll quote you: "however currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" This is the entire foundation of your argument which is absolutely absurd. One survivor is nothing. A single survivor has virtually 0 chance of making it out if they have to work on generators. Even when you have 2 survivors and generators need to be finished, it typically turns into a game of find the hatch and hope the other guy dies first.
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Dreamond is a troll you'll never see eye to eye with the bridge dwellerNickenzie said:
That's why I want built-in voice comms in Dead by Daylight. It solve your problem instantly because survivors will now be able to work together and have a fair chance to overwhelm the power role.Kilmeran said:@Nickenzie said: Survivors won't be weak if they work together, that's the point of a asymmetrical game. Survivors need to work together to overwhelm the killer, that's called teamwork and that's how a survivor should be able to have a fair chance against a killer including nurse. When you see high nurse gameplay, you'll see survivors getting absolutely destroyed because survivors aren't used to working together which was how the game was designed. Survivors are so used to being as strong as the killer that when they face a nurse that requires them to work together, the survivor team falls apart because they aren't used to working together. The power role will overwhelm the minior roles because again, teamwork is necessary to overwhelm the power role. No teamwork, you'll lose. Period.
And now I'll reply to the actual topic at hand. I'll be blunt. Not no, but hell no.
Have you ever played a heavy teamwork reliant game? I have. I spent 2+ years in Overwatch since launch, and time in Paladins, as well. And let me tell you: Unless you have a stack of friends that can queue up with you and make a full-team, or you're an Esport team that regularly plays and practices together, a heavy teamwork game absolutely will not work once it includes a team of random players queuing on their own.
It simply falls apart. Even with Voice Chat in those other games (Overwatch and Paladins) it doesn't work because a majority of the time, random people don't want to talk and coordinate with random people. And then you get the toxicity of those who expect you to play their way, their tactics, and running the Perks (or hero for the role in those games) of their preference. Or all holy hell breaks loose in the match. Especially when a single bad teammate can cost you the entire match.
What you propose always looks great on paper, but never plays out when random teams are involved.
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### it. I've tried seven times now to post a lengthily reply and it won't post. To tell with these forums.
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@Nickenzie said: It's a bug, @Master has as well. Don't worry, I understand your point but please, next time be more nicer?
I was nice. All I did was point out the facts between your post and his. Any nicer and I'd have to reach through the keyboard, hold your hand, pat your head, and tell you it would be all right.
Seriously?
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Dreamnomad said:
If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
lol I laughed hard as hell to this lmao
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Lol, my bad! I was referring to @Dreamnomad for telling me to uninstall the game! I got confused earlier with who's post is who's because you both had a Myers portrait so yeah lol!Kilmeran said:@Nickenzie said: It's a bug, @Master has as well. Don't worry, I understand your point but please, next time be more nicer?
I was nice. All I did was point out the facts between your post and his. Any nicer and I'd have to reach through the keyboard, hold your hand, pat your head, and tell you it would be all right.
Seriously?
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Same!daboiiiii1988 said:Dreamnomad said:If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
lol I laughed hard as hell to this lmao
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If you're gonna act like a child, don't bother replying to these threads. We don't tolerate that kind of attitude here.Dreamnomad said:If you sincerely believe that one survivor is equal in strength to the killer then you should honestly uninstall the game.
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What some people fail to see is, if one survivor is as strong as a killer, that means 4 survivors are 4 times as strong as the killer. This should not be the case.2
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@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:
What some people fail to see is, if one survivor is as strong as a killer, that means 4 survivors are 4 times as strong as the killer. This should not be the case.That's good, because it isn't the case. The assertion that one survivor is as strong as a killer is utterly absurd. No reasonable person could possibly believe that to be true. You could make an argument that an infinite number of survivors are not equal in power to the killer since the killer can, you know, kill the survivors but the reverse isn't true.
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Well, one survivor isn't as strong as the killer, because the killer still has the upper hand (he can hit them). BUT they are close to it.
The main problem now is that the survivors control the length of the match. A good killer is able to kill all survivors, but he has almost no room for it. Yes, the looping problem should be fixed, but I would focus on survivors' objectives first, because they can complete all of them in under 5 minutes.1 -
@Nickenzie said: That's why I want built-in voice comms in Dead by Daylight. It solve your problem instantly because survivors will now be able to work together and have a fair chance to overwhelm the power role.
You really are missing points. Please read the entire replies
I already covered that. Here it is again, in an excerpt from my reply:
@Kilmeran said:
It simply falls apart. Even with Voice Chat in those other games (Overwatch and Paladins) it doesn't work because a majority of the time, random people don't want to talk and coordinate with random people. And then you get the toxicity of those who expect you to play their way, their tactics, and running the Perks (or hero for the role in those games) of their preference. Or all holy hell breaks loose in the match. Especially when a single bad teammate can cost you the entire match.Overwatch and Paladins have voice comm built in and it still doesn't work as far as coordinating random people into a cohesive team for the exact reason I pointed out: A majority still will not use the voice comm with other random people. It's already been shown and proven in those games. I know. I played them for a couple of years.
So, I'm still against the proposal. I've been there and done that with heavy teamwork reliant games, with integrated voice comm included, and it's the reason I'm here in Dead by Daylight instead of still playing Overwatch, Paladins, or Heroes of the Storm. Because: they, do not work out.
Teamwork heavy games have a whole new set of problems. You're simply trading one cluster of problems for another cluster.
The truth is, asymmetrical games will never have that balance. Evolve had issues. Deceit has issues. Deathgarden has issues. DBD has issues. They all have the same issues. Making them teamwork heavy just brings in the issues that all the other teamwork heavy games have when played by random people tossed into a team via a queue system (even with voice comm).
You should go check out those forums to get a better idea of how those player bases feel about the teamwork heavy components.
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oh dont say that because it's rude and you'll hurt his feelings1
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I did read your reply but I would rather have voice comms than not have voice comms in a teamwork game. Just because it won't 100% solve the issue with teamwork doesn't mean it's not gonna help the bigger problem. Voice comms will help out, that's all I'm saying and Dead by Daylight will actually be more competitive game! Yes, you have a point with not everyone is gonna use voice comms but it goes both ways, there will be people who will wanna use voice comms.Kilmeran said:@Nickenzie said: That's why I want built-in voice comms in Dead by Daylight. It solve your problem instantly because survivors will now be able to work together and have a fair chance to overwhelm the power role.
You really are missing points. Please read the entire replies
I already covered that. Here it is again, in an excerpt from my reply:
@Kilmeran said:
It simply falls apart. Even with Voice Chat in those other games (Overwatch and Paladins) it doesn't work because a majority of the time, random people don't want to talk and coordinate with random people. And then you get the toxicity of those who expect you to play their way, their tactics, and running the Perks (or hero for the role in those games) of their preference. Or all holy hell breaks loose in the match. Especially when a single bad teammate can cost you the entire match.Overwatch and Paladins have voice comm built in and it still doesn't work as far as coordinating random people into a cohesive team for the exact reason I pointed out: A majority still will not use the voice comm with other random people. It's already been shown and proven in those games. I know. I played them for a couple of years.
So, I'm still against the proposal. I've been there and done that with heavy teamwork reliant games, with integrated voice comm included, and it's the reason I'm here in Dead by Daylight instead of still playing Overwatch, Paladins, or Heroes of the Storm. Because: they, do not work out.
Teamwork heavy games have a whole new set of problems. You're simply trading one cluster of problems for another cluster.
The truth is, asymmetrical games will never have that balance. Evolve had issues. Deceit has issues. Deathgarden has issues. DBD has issues. They all have the same issues. Making them teamwork heavy just brings in the issues that all the other teamwork heavy games have when played by random people tossed into a team via a queue system (even with voice comm).
You should go check out those forums to get a better idea of how those player bases feel about the teamwork heavy components.
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@Nickenzie I may be wrong, but reading this thread and replies, it seems like Survivors are too powerful at the higher (Red) Ranks. The problem is, if you make each Survivor one-quarter of a Killer and require heavy teamwork due to the higher ranks, you run the very real risk of alienating the lower ranked players, which leads to frustration and them leaving the game since there are unlimited gaming options out there.
The Meta-Perks and Meta-Builds are going to play a lot differently at the High ranks than they do at the lower and average ranks (where a majority of the player base should hover). It doesn't matter the game. A Reinhardt, Tracer, Genji, Ana, et cetera in Overwatch plays a lot differently at Master and Grandmaster than they do in Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Plat. Blizzard balances around the High ranks because of the Pros in the Overwatch League. Matter of fact, they take more feedback from the OWL Pros than they should. And it has completely unbalanced the game for a majority of the player base. That is a Blizzard game. Blizzard, called the Disney of the video game industry by investors because they are so huge and untouchable. And yet, check this out: Just as school was ready to start and the natural school-year attrition was about to happen, they ran OW at 50% for two weeks. A week after that, they dropped it into the October $12/mo Humble Bundle subscription.
Overwatch, that Blizzard juggernaut, by all appearances is bleeding players. And the biggest stated reason is: Balancing around high-level play, unbalancing the game for the majority, and failure to listen.
Heavy teamwork games work at the High levels and the Pro levels. But for a majority, they lead to piss-poor matches, frustration, toxicity, and people finally leaving the game. Because low and mid tier players very rarely get actual matches where the teamwork happens.
On paper, the argument is always made that it'll balance out between those teams that don't work together and those that do. In reality, that is never the case. Not in OW, Paladins, HoTS, LoL, or any of those games.
In DBD, the issue is even more pronounced, because then those low to mid tier Survivor players just have more reason to go Killer, which doesn't rely on the teamwork issue. Which creates more issues for DBD lobbies. Because in all those other games, you simply need a straight 10-12 players to queue for a match. In DBD, you need 4x as many players queuing for Survivor than you have queuing for Killer.
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@WhateverIGuess said:
"give survivors more stealth options"
Now what if I told you that most people don't enjoy playing stealth, because they find it uneventful and boring? What do you tell them? "Too bad, play stealthy or get out" ? Yeah, good way to kill the game.Teamwork beats Nurse? Yeah, nice meme. Even a 4 SWF who are experienced and who do teamwork won't beat a God Nurse, especially with 3+ blinks.
Then the SWF are just not working together as a team! You can't just do your own thing in asymmetrical game, you have to work together which is how the minor roles overwhelm the power role. I can keep proving this with justification and reasoning all day but I don't have a lot of time right lol.
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@Kilmeran said:
@Nickenzie I may be wrong, but reading this thread and replies, it seems like Survivors are too powerful at the higher (Red) Ranks. The problem is, if you make each Survivor one-quarter of a Killer and require heavy teamwork due to the higher ranks, you run the very real risk of alienating the lower ranked players, which leads to frustration and them leaving the game since there are unlimited gaming options out there.The Meta-Perks and Meta-Builds are going to play a lot differently at the High ranks than they do at the lower and average ranks (where a majority of the player base should hover). It doesn't matter the game. A Reinhardt, Tracer, Genji, Ana, et cetera in Overwatch plays a lot differently at Master and Grandmaster than they do in Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Plat. Blizzard balances around the High ranks because of the Pros in the Overwatch League. Matter of fact, they take more feedback from the OWL Pros than they should. And it has completely unbalanced the game for a majority of the player base. That is a Blizzard game. Blizzard, called the Disney of the video game industry by investors because they are so huge and untouchable. And yet, check this out: Just as school was ready to start and the natural school-year attrition was about to happen, they ran OW at 50% for two weeks. A week after that, they dropped it into the October $12/mo Humble Bundle subscription.
Overwatch, that Blizzard juggernaut, by all appearances is bleeding players. And the biggest stated reason is: Balancing around high-level play, unbalancing the game for the majority, and failure to listen.
Heavy teamwork games work at the High levels and the Pro levels. But for a majority, they lead to piss-poor matches, frustration, toxicity, and people finally leaving the game. Because low and mid tier players very rarely get actual matches where the teamwork happens.
On paper, the argument is always made that it'll balance out between those teams that don't work together and those that do. In reality, that is never the case. Not in OW, Paladins, HoTS, LoL, or any of those games.
In DBD, the issue is even more pronounced, because then those low to mid tier Survivor players just have more reason to go Killer, which doesn't rely on the teamwork issue. Which creates more issues for DBD lobbies. Because in all those other games, you simply need a straight 10-12 players to queue for a match. In DBD, you need 4x as many players queuing for Survivor than you have queuing for Killer.
That's what I wanna hear, thanks for the kind feedback! I wasn't talking about a single survivor versus a killer with a single survivor needing to do two generators, I'm looking at this from a single survivor in a chase with the killer. The killer should be stronger than the survivor but however "Currently one survivor is as strong as the killer which goes against what a asymmetrical game is!" -That's the point I'm trying to make.
However, I'm okay with a survivor being 35-25% of the killer's strength since lower survivor ranks won't struggle as much. However my point still stands, currently one survivor is 100% the strength of the killer and the problem is 1 killer (100% Power) vs 4 survivors (400% Power)... Does this help out with my point? It should be 1 killer (100% Power) vs 4 survivors (100% Power) since when all 4 survivors work together, they will be able to have a equal chance to win!
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@Nickenzie I agree with you that power needs to shift more in favor of the Killer. Absolutely no debate from me on that one.
But the devs need to be extremely careful in how far they shift it, or all the issues I mentioned will become a problem. Personally, I think a decent first step is to make Killer power not so add-on reliant. Take the shifts in small steps, parse the data, and keep going from there.
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@Kilmeran said:
@Nickenzie I agree with you that power needs to shift more in favor of the Killer. Absolutely no debate from me on that one.But the devs need to be extremely careful in how far they shift it, or all the issues I mentioned will become a problem. Personally, I think a decent first step is to make Killer power not so add-on reliant. Take the shifts in small steps, parse the data, and keep going from there.
I agree, there needs to be small changes at a time to bring a survivor down a little in power level since when a SWF has great teamwork.... The killer can only do so much since his power is 100% and 4 survivors working together is 400%.
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when survivor mains think killers are actually strong. hahahaha. you HAVE to play both side in high ranks consistently to understand the balance of this game. in no way is this game balanced. they need to stop nerfing killers and giving them downsides to add ons powers ect. they need to encourage stealth with points and at least half the pallets and windows. when a killer finds a survivor they just loop them for 5 gens. its not that hard. killers can literally do nothing against a smart survivor that knows how to loop until they run out of pallets or screw up. its just sad that you need survs to screw up to actually down them
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here I don't want to type it again.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/22209/this-game-sales-would-be-better-if-they-addressed-camping#latest
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If I play boldly I’m toxic. If I play immersed, I’m toxic. If I’m doing gens, toxic. Altruism, toxic. Cleansing totems, toxic. Apparently the only time survivors aren’t toxic is when they’re on the hook.WhateverIGuess said:"give survivors more stealth options"
Now what if I told you that most people don't enjoy playing stealth, because they find it uneventful and boring? What do you tell them? "Too bad, play stealthy or get out" ? Yeah, good way to kill the game.Teamwork beats Nurse? Yeah, nice meme. Even a 4 SWF who are experienced and who do teamwork won't beat a God Nurse, especially with 3+ blinks.
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@PhantomMask20763 said:
In all honesty killers can be strong without addons but they lack ending a chase quick if it's not one of the top killers. Stealth should be encouraged more though instead of ring around the rosie and if you are wanting to take on the killer head on then it should be difficult and needing lots practice before doing itThe spirit is unplayable without add-ons and Freddy is barely playable without add-ons
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@Nickenzie said:
So, I think I have enough evidence and experience to voice my opinion about what's wrong with the game. Before I start, I'm gonna say how many hours I have which is something I usually don't say because it really doesn't matter but I'm going to anyways to show you that I know what I'm talking about!MY DBD HOURS: Roughly 600 Hours
Problem: In Spoiler
(What's Dead by Daylight?)
(Spoiler)Solution: (Make killers four times as strong than a single survivor & give survivors more stealth opinions)
(Spoiler)What you're saying is quite true. This game should be focusing on stealth and not on chases since those are boring and just piss killer and survivors off.
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