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A Undying + devour hope potential combo discussion , & the potential surge of grievances over it.
I’m probably kicking the hornet’s nest with this one. Please remain civil in this discussion.
I predict that once the mid chapter goes live. That a ton of LOW LEVEL or noob survivors (mostly) are going to give their grievances of the potential effectiveness of the undying + devour hope combo. I COULD BE WRONG & I HOPE I AM. I wouldn’t be surprised to see grievances.
with that out of the way. What do you guys & gals think of the potential effectiveness of the undying & devour hope combo??
Comments
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I am really unsure. But if I had to take a well-educated guess, I would say mostly ineffective. Since people will expect this to be a much more common combo, they will be much more equipped to deal with it. It is also only two totems and if they are both decent or trash totem spawns, that is two perk slots given up for nothing.
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Well they'll have to look for two bones instead of 5 so that can work. And Devour Hope will still be the hugest gamble perk in the game.
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They are already equipped to deal with Ruin / Undying, they just dont want to sacrifice perks, items, or time to do so.
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My opinion (which is obviously just that) is that we're really not going to know for certain until it goes live, but I THINK it has the potential to be completely game-changing in a number of games that Devour never had the potential to be before.
When I play survivor (as part of a 2-person SWF, usually), we both do totems whenever we come across them (usually we both catch at least one, sometimes two each). In some of those matches, we've stumbled across what turned out to be Devour before it activated with the Exposed status for everyone, saving us a HUGE potential problem in those matches. And yet, there have been matches where, despite us breaking 3-4 totems together, we've seen NOED activate, because our teammates ignored totems throughout the match. We've even been in matches where we've seen teammates run by a lit totem on their way to a generator, and we ended up cleansing something that was causing us issues (In some of those cases, that totem was Ruin or Undying in matches where we were up against that combo, as crazy as that sounds!).
There are definitely survivor players who don't want to be bothered with doing totems. Some are focused only on the primary objective -- gens -- and focus on that to the exclusion of everything else. The power of Devour is that no one knows you're facing it until it hits 3 stacks, and at that point, it's a race to find the totem. I played a Wraith game with Devour on Hawkins last night (a map with difficult some totem locations), and I got three Moris, because I applied enough pressure early (getting downs with MYC) and the people who weren't getting chased were focused on gens and weren't looking for totems, I'm guessing, that by the time Devour got to 3 stacks, it was too late for them to find it and everything snowballed from there.
If a good killer player can apply enough pressure, and the survivors they're facing have tunnel vision on gens, there's a decent chance that against that type of survivor team, Devour will get to 3 stacks. With the additional time given to that killer with Devour needing to then be found and cleansed twice, there's the potential for a huge snowball that will change a killer from having to get, in theory, 12 hooks (and twice that many hits, depending on how much healing is taking place, and whether the killer already has one-shot down potential) to 3 hooks and afterwards, far fewer successful hits, before the carnage begins. Anything that can shrink the number of hits/hooks to end the game is potentially huge for any killer.
The still consistenly bad totem spawn locations on a lot of maps (including, bewilderingly, some of the reworked ones) are going to be a problem for it to work with the consistency of Ruin/Undying (even though that, often enough against competent survivors, could be eliminated), but Ruin/Undying killed you slowly (by slowing gen progress), where Devour can potentially wipe out an entire team in literal minutes. Devour may go from super-high risk/super-high reward to a place where the reward -- ending the game quickly -- will be worth running it with Undying. I'm looking forward to at least trying it out a few times to see how it goes.
I will say that, if it DOES end up working more effectively as it might, there will be a flood of complaints to "nerf" it almost immediately, lol.
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Mediocre combo. Majority of games you'll have wasted 2 perk slots for nothing.
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Not majority of games. Devour Hope just needs to last 3 hooks to be worth a slot and 5-6 hooks to basically give you a win most of the time and you can see how long Ruin lasts with Undying these days. It has a potential to be a strong combo, we will have to wait and see.
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My guess is this is how it will pan out
first 2 weeks of patch people are diligent and cleansing any hex totem they see
next week survivors complain up a storm about hex undying + devour because they have become to lazy to cleanse totems anymore and complain that it takes too much time from the main objective
Survivor complaints pile up for the next 6 weeks
ptb rolls around with undying nerf or devour nerf
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The reason you don't see Devour Hope often, is because its too much of a gamble. With the reworked Undying, you will get 1 chance to save Devour Hope, but if it fails you will have wasted 2 perk slots instead of one.
At least Ruin put a choice on the survivors. Stay on generators or cleanse the Hex. But with Devour Hope, just do the bones. Its not like the gens are going to regress. You are probably better off using Huntress Lullaby with Undying, because at least it hinder the survivors who stick to the gens.
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Most games I doubt it's lasting 3 hooks bar a few specific maps and that's also for 2 perk slots, not just 1. Not to mention you're only getting that value after 3 hooks if they are full health. If you're properly pressuring the map you're keeping most survivors injured so the chance of your target not being injured at 3 hooks may be a 50/50.
We see how long Ruin lasts these days because it's running current Undying, not 1 extra cleanse Undying which is very different.
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On spirit/nurse/freddy this combo will be meta on pub.
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Don't agree with Undying keeping tokens for this exact reason. Having to cleanse two totems on swamp at 3 stacks of devour is an instant win for the killer with no investment or anything on their part.
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They need to get 3 stacks. Sometimes this is "investment" enough.
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Tonight I’ve read threads about Undying change being a debilitating nerf and now reading about it being too OP. Sounds about right :)
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It's only two bones instead of 5. And the whole totems are getting harder to find yeah not so much on Autohaven, MacMillan, and Ormond still have similar spawns.
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The people saying undying will be OP are just ignorant. The lack of aura reading on your hex is a deal breaker. They are green rank survivors.
Killers will try it for a few weeks but soon all will run pop/oppression/corrupt/bbq. Mark it.
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It will make the experienced survivors more likely to cleanse totems even if ruin isn't in play and like you said the less experienced ones will probably just complain.
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I'm sure this will be the next build the survivors will ask for nerfs
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Undying Devour Hope won't be meta.
Why? Because Undying is just a weaker Haunted Grounds. Since it has no exposed status.
Even using Thrill of the Hunt would be a stronger combo.
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Just wait till you receive the wake-up call to how bad this combo will be.
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I'm excited to try an all hex build. TOTH, undying, haunted grounds and devour hope should be fun. Especially on demo, bubba, or other high mobility killers
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This discussion has been done to death already. There is no chance that the new Undying, no matter what other hex it's combined with, is going to be meta or even strong.
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I argued the following in another post: assuming you don't place much value on dull totem aura reading, instead of running undying just run a second hex perk you equally prize to the one you're trying to protect.
If the second hex goes down first, it's no different than if it were undying. If the DH goes down, this is no different than running the second hex with undying.
Work through the scenarios. As long as you have two hexes you highly value, just run them both. And expect that due to RNG sometimes you'll lose none, one, or most likely both anyway.
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I think it will give rise to more Trapper matches. He's great at protecting totems and all he will have to do is protect the lit totem that is in a better hiding spot by trapping it and the paths leading up to it.
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Killers will still need the obligatory gen defense perks. Having 2 slots eaten up with undying/dh and then maybe pop corrupt, that is not good after the corrupt runs out and your 2 other perks are cleansed.
it’s not gonna change much. The devs refuse to touch gens, so killers have to focus on that more than trying to get dh to work.
much ado about nothing
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Don't forget Make Your Choice.
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But... Its an all hex build...
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