Why do survivors constantly have Freddy/Spirit in their gunsights but not Doctor?
I was thinking of taking up doctor, and looked up that kill/pick chart from this fall. I assumed (based on lack of forum discussion about him) that he was mid or low tier.
Very surprised to see that in red ranks, he is SECOND in kills- two ahead of Spirit. At all ranks, he's 4th!
Why are survivors more irritated about Freddy and Spirit than this guy? Just seems strange when he's obviously on the same power tier.
EDIT: Same comment applies to pig, she is right at the top of the charts around Freddy/Spirit too.
Comments
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Most of the time it's not hard to play against the Doctor.
Everyone plays with him the same way, so we somehow knows how to react.
I never stand too close to gens at the start of the match, and when someone is on the hook I stand far just in case.
When he uses his ability to stop us from using a window or pallet, some choices has to be made to prevent him from doing so.
He can be fun killer to play against in my opinion.
I feel extreme pressure against Freddy and Spirit,
Because their abilities are very easy to catch survivors when they are least ready for it , and the better the killer harder the match.
We need a very good counter against the Spirit.
And with Freddy, we need to change the way we play and risk ourselves a lot to try to win.
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Because in reality where if we went of capable survivors Doctor and Pig would be lower but we have Locker Dwight's, Corner Care Claudettes, Megs who walk around all over the place, and Neas who Urban all over the Place. In reality if all survivors were capable Pig would be on the low end. But often her RNG will win for her or loose for her so stats are hard with her. Doctor while still strong would be lower but from what I've seen survivors have poor understanding of his power they'll often not pre drop a pallet before getting shocked or hug a window thinking they'll be able to get through. Less of them and more survivors. Don't go off statistics because we know Nurse is the best although stats say she has the lowest kill rate. And Doctor is mid tier but survivors lack proper knowledge against him.
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Doctor has no real map pressure other than saying he knows where survivors are
His chase potential is meh without addons
he isn't much better off then say clown or legion
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Because Doctor has counterplay. The charts dont reflect HOW the killer got that many kills.
You know what Doctor and Pig(and Twins now too if she attaches Victor to someone) have in common? They have an ability that keeps survivors off gens. They essentially are able, with their basekit, to lenghten a match longer to have more room to make extra kills.
So Doctor performs better if he uses his skills better, but there are still ways to counter him. Where Freddy and Spirit? Well, Freddy just places traps to slow you down with the same slow as Clown, OR he places pallets that are indistinguishable from normal pallets guaranteeing free hits where he otherwise would not. Both are guessing games that for every 10 seconds you dont get a hit, it's Freddy's mistake rather than you outplaying the killer. Same for Spirit, its just a guessing game where Spirit is the one making a mistake, not you making a play.
The only reason you dont see people ######### about Nurse is because she is actually hard to master, and even then, at least breaking line of sight allows for some counterplay.
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I like him because there is a lot of outplay opportunities for both sides and his power has clear counterplay(lockers)
Freddy you can stay awake but eventually you will be chased asleep and you will have 8 snares spammed at a loop without a penalty on Freddie’s side
I might as well unplug my moniter against a good spirit and save us both the trouble
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Doctor is annoying as hell and DOES get some belly-aching, but he distrupts the game a bit less than Freddy and Spirit, and it is hard to argue he is 'unfair' so you get less salt. The killer getting free detection on you is bad, but you still can play ultimately the same way its just stealth tricks don't work as well and clean breaks from chases are much harder.
Spirit is hated because they disrupt looping and don't really pay too much for their power, and it doesn't have a ton of interaction. Other killers that prevent looping require a bit more skill or have more interaction, but any killer that makes looping a non-option is always going to be super controversial because the game drifts more and more to that being the only mode of play over time.
Freddy is different. Freddy isn't actually that annoying vs SWF, his power is useful but not absurd, he is like... a good version of clown basically in some ways. The problem is with how insanely oppressive he is vs Solos because his power is so much better if your team doesn't have the 5th perk of SWF in the form of comms, and aren't coordinating doing gens. So he is a rare example of something being too oppressive on the casual level, the '2015 Akali' if you will, of DBD.
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You dont know how to use Doc's ability properly then. He actually has one of the 3 killer abilities that DIRECTLY affect gen progression:
Madness t3 - cant do gens
Reverse Beartraps - could do gens at the risk of dying to a trap
Victor - survivor cant do anything other than unhook other survivors while wearing Victor
So yes, Doc HAS map pressure, you simply dont know how to use that part of his ability in your favor.
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Unfortunately I've seen people have no clue how to play against him. They don't leave his terror radius. And at loops they won't pre drop a pallet or vault early then have no clue why they can't vault or drop.
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Im just speaking as a general for most likely why a survivor wouldn't target doctor
Of course I know the intricacies of his power and how to use it
Im just giving a general of why survivors might not complain about him as much because frankly most doctors I see abide by this list of not being able to use his power properly, and while I claim to be better then them but not by much I can say that survivors don't ever see people playing doctor well enough for him to be a major threat as most people just play enough doctor to get a grasp for him and gain his perks then jump ship to someone frankly more interesting
And yes madness tier 3s astounding ability to make you snap out of it for 12 seconds so you can't do gens is technically directly impacting gens there are still others that you forgot
for example deep wound from legion or deathslinger which also makes people do an interaction for 12 seconds or 8x2 with a friend or they just bleed out and go down
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He’s honestly quite balanced but very good against inexperienced players
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The thing about Freddie is that he's what I'd call DBD's equivalent of a stat check killer. He's a killer with a low skill floor AND low skill ceiling. He's a jack of all trades master of none. This means that the difference between a godtier Freddie and an okay Freddie isn't much and his time to kill is railroaded. U either escape before that happens or die. You need 4 survivors who are decent in most aspects of dbd and you'll beat Freddie most of the time cuz he's railroaded so much. The problem is that you're not going to get survivors that are decent in most aspects of DBD even in SWF.
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Yes he is balanced though unfortunate those people who don't know how to play him say nerf him. But Freddy and Spirit yikes on the nerf train.
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Oh they do. He’s just not top priority yet. They’ve called him easy to play and uncounterable. Both of his shocks can apparently be spammed without penalty. Once Freddy and Spirit are nerfed, him and Deathslinger will likely be the next victims of the Survivor nerf campaigns.
I think Doctor isn’t their top priority is because of how much easier it is to play Freddy.
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Doc isn't hard to beat unlike Spirit or Freddy. I don;'t know why his stats are like that but he's relatively easy to beat, and I am saying this as a stealth player.
Doc is just annoying to play against. he never feels unfair unlike Spirit or Freddy.
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You sound bitter. Are you a Doctor main?
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Thing with legion, tho, is that 2 survivors can mend you and remove deepwounds within 6 seconds. With doctor, pig and victor, YOU are the sole responsible survivor responsible to get out of your position, no help, no way to speed it up. Deep wounds helps and mostly works its full effect, but not having any way to speed it up at all?
Besides, there are other ways that survivor get deep wounds. BT being quite a common one and very easily activated by any killer. Forcing them to mend even when they normally would not need to. The only time I end up slugging survivors was because someone did an unsafe unhook without carrying BT and hoping I'd respect that. I ALWAYS hit the survivor off the hook if I cant hit the unhooker before they finish unhooking. Because having 1 survivor mend in the corner of a map while I have any perk that allows me to put pressure on the gen that the remaining survivors are working on, is a net gain. The only reason I would not hit that juicy BT is if I simply am not close enough to get a quick hit.
Considering BT is almost in every single match, Legion and Deathslinger arent actually that unique in their power. Legion is more about keeping survivors injured, while deathslinger(who fits the same BS as Nurse and Spirit in terms of you dont counter the killer, the killer is the one countering him/herself) is about getting a hit ASAP and then ending the chase as soon as you can shoot. Which both are more chase-related abilities than they affect gen progression. Sure, Legion has a nice consistency, making him at least quite powerful on gen progression, but that's not exactly what his main power is about as you can counter being hit by doing a fake locker/fake vault/stun the killer/fake pallet vault if the killer vaults the pallet. So relying on Legion's power to reduce gen progression isnt actually that good of a strategy. Relying on his ability to keep survivors injured and essentially keeping them on 1 health state(aka, free instadowns) gives Legion far much pressure by having consistent hooks.
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Because there is far less counterplay against a Spirit than there is a doctor. No one minds if a killer is strong if they know that there is something they can do to react to them.
Freddy is well-rounded, has the best aspect of mobility (reaching gens) and a good aspect in his power (slowing the survivors and crippling loops), and is stealthier than most 32 meter killers. Freddy also counters Borrowed Time, a perk mainly used to prevent a killer from camping a hook successfully.
Also win-rate is a poor indicator of skill as that would mean Nurse is the crappiest killer in the game, which is simply not true.
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ALL killers are in survivors sights. Just some more than others.
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Doctor gets screwed over by holding W and has no mobility, so he cannot slow down the game. Plus, it's hard to be a good doctor, so he gets the Nurse treatment.
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No and yes. I’m a Doc main but I’m not bitter. I’m either annoyed or amused by them. If I was bitter my post would have been worded differently.
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doctor is actually complained about a good amount, mostly by console players, because of their more stealthy scared play style. and newbies. again, because they are scared and think hiding is optimal. i see it all the time.
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Doctor is obnoxious but he is beatable. If you run a perk which stops you from screaming he basiclly loses any kind of his main power..Which is knowing where people are at and locking you out of animations.
Freddy,well his kit is overstacked and the spirit is a case of "What type of killer is this"
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I don't mind playing against Doc, tbh. He's a well balanced killer and I like his chase music.
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Mathematically that would be 18 seconds of wasted time just to mend with 3x6, the theoretical time you would save mending with teamates is wasted by the fact they can't do anything, no matter what you either take 12x1 2x8 or 3x6 pick your poison
and yes their are unique for the consistency of deep wound not for having it from the survivor team
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Doctor can't teleport or phase insanely quickly. His shocks also slow him down when he uses it and at the end of the day he's still an m1 killer who has to walk his ass around the map.
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Doctor is a great killer imho. Survivors just don't complain about him because, while he can shut down loops like Freddy or Spirit, you have a lot more input in it as Survivor with real mind games, and Doctor has to actually hit his shocks to get value. You can fake out Doctor, you can do fun jukes with him, and you have generally fair match ups with him. He also has very clear animations and sounds for Survivors, making the guessing game fair on both sides. He requires a lot of skill.
Compare this to Spirit, who can stand still with Stridor at Pallets, and with Phase Reduction Add-Ons, force the Survivor into a 50-50 where the chances of the Survivors actually getting to have fun mind games or counterplay depend solely on the Spirit being bad at phase walking (Which isn't too hard.) as she doesn't give any visual queues to anything. You only get audio queues.
Also compared to Freddy, who can spam a slowdown at a pallet at no cost to him, and without having to do too much planning or real foresight to it (at least, not when you compare it to other trap or range killers) for easy value, along with built in map pressure in the form of a weird teleport, and it's just not fun. There's no input. You hold W and hope for the best.
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The things that the doctor is best at, are also the things that counter the playstyle survivors hate in their own teammates. Got a blendette that just won't do work? Doctor will find and hook her.
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Him and Pig are absolutely not at the same power tier as Freddy/Spirit.
Please don't blindly obey the stats like the devs like to do.
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Because doctor's balanced, not opressive and you need to actually be good with him to get results.
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Because Doc is basically a M1 killer with an annoying, but not dangerous power. He slows down when he casts it, you can just predrop a pallet and his power does nothing. You can hear when he charges static blast and can run away or hop in a locker, to nullify it.
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Because Doc feeds survivor's the precious information the survivor's want so they can continue to do Shift + W counterplay. Same thing with Freddy except survivor's hate that that he can flood a loop with multiple snares.
As for Rin Yamaoka, let's say she's a product of whats wrong with looping. It's ok for killers to guess but the moment survivor's have to guess in a chase its a problem even though mindgaming is literally a guess.
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He’s definitely not trash but he’s not op either he’s middle of the road. You can easily coast by on rank 20 down to about rank 6. After that it’s a little harder to consistently kill all. Survivors
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Doctor getting from gen to gen compared to spirit or Freddy getting from gen to gen is laughable.
Same can be said for shutting down and trapping survivors at safe loops.
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Holy ######### died other people actually main doc?i thought I only one.
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Nuff said
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Nuff said
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Some survivors do go after doc a lot, some even thought he was OP before the buff (mostly confusing annoying with being overpowered)
Plus if you're a survivor with a certain "playstyle" i.e., camping pallets, missing skillchecks, being a blendette - doc will seriously piss you off
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Some survivors do go after doc a lot, some even thought he was OP before the buff (mostly confusing annoying with being overpowered)
Plus if you're a survivor with a certain "playstyle" i.e., camping pallets, missing skillchecks, being a blendette - doc will seriously piss you off
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I'm pretty sure its because of how unoptimized console is. They already average 30-50 frames a match, and doctor makes it even worse.
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People complain about freddy and spirit because its easier to complain than learn
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As a Doctor main, I can say he is good at gathering information and denying certain actions. But if he makes any mistakes (ST timing, pre-dropping pallets, etc.) He gets punished hard. If chases don't end quickly, then gens will pop. So every second of a Doctor has to be A-game. I had a game the other day where I had 2 dying survivors at 4 gens. 3rd came to rescue and I messed up the chase and they all recovered during that bogged up chase.
He doesn't have an instadown like Bubba/Billy, can't traverse the map at high speed like Freddy/Spirit (or even Demo for that matter!) And his powers can't hurt survivors directly.
Madness helps slow the game down, but his TR and SB can only go so far, and even then SB has a long cooldown of 60 seconds. Even with add ons you are looking at a maximum cooldown of 9 seconds.
If anything I think SB needs a buff where if it hits nobody, cooldown becomes 30 seconds. A missed SB and 60s cooldown can result in multiple gens about to pop.
I run the following set:
Whispers (no Static Blast wasted)
Discordance (guaranteed to find 2 people minimum)
PGTW/Oppression: good overall gen regression perks.
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I think most people underestimate his detection power, it's his strongest asset imo. You can counter it but most people don't. If you're constantly in a chase then that's half the battle. His loop shutdown is not that strong or at least i rarely encounter doctors who are good at it. His gen slowdown (tier 3 madness) also doesn't have such an impact on most games. The madness skill checks can sometimes mess you up in a stressful situation but most people i know don't have problems with it. He is a well-rounded killer and i think one of the slightly stronger ones because of his detection which also helps him in very early game (very important) and very late game (1 surv left). I personally find him extremely annoying, i just don't like to be detected all the time and most matches against him are rather stressful. But i think he has a high kill ratio because he is a typical noob slayer, i remember that after the first 20 hours in the game, i thought he is the strongest killer because the skill checks were so hard for me.
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Its called resource management. Complaining about too many killers at once weakens the chances of getting them nerfed.
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I just got back into the game so take this for what its worth.
I get more annoyed with freddy and spirit than someone like doctor because doctor I feel like there is a lot more options for me to counter whereas freddy especially I feel like I dont have a ton I can do to counter him specifically. Doctor I may lose to slightly more but I feel like I lost because I misplayed while freddy I attribute a win against him as a bad freddy player and not that I was especially good or I did something crucial. Similar with spirit as well.
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Doctor, in my opinion, while annoying as #########, is honestly quite balanced. He's a hard anti-looper but has counterplay in a fair amount of scenarios. And if Doctor is the killer that you hate the most he has a perk that counters him. Freddy and Spirit (with Stridor) have no counterplay and are unhealthy for the game.
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It really depends on the situation whether or not mending/healing is a waste of time. I sometimes rather have everyone healthy working on the final gen, than having 1 injured to lead into a pop goes the weasel. 18 seconds wasted vs 20 seconds saved?
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Freddy has passive pressure/slowdown/mobility that Doctor doesn't have which makes him pretty much a better Doctor. Spirit has decent mobility and map presence. The nature of her power allows her to end chases quickly without giving any input to the survivor.
The fact that Doctor has to time his shock properly and has a slowdown penalty when he uses his power makes it more fair when he actually downs you (this power isn't abusive and there's a drawback and timing to it as well as a sound cue when he shocks). Not to mention, he lacks mobility. Players typically complain about certain killers when they feel like they're losing to a killer that takes less skill than others.
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I have recently become a Doctor main, and from my perspective he's quite strong if played properly, you can completely shut down loops if you time your shocks well.
Survivors do complain about him, but not as much as about Freddy and Spirit because unlike those there is solid counterplay against Doctor and he requires some skill. Freddy can spam his snares at zero cost to shut down a loop, if you stay you will die because of the slowdown and if you leave he will most likely catch you before you make it to the next tile because placing his snares doesn't slow him down like Doctor's shock does. Fake pallets Freddy is definitely weaker, but it turns the game into a guessing game unless you're with a 4man SWF and you know which pallets have been used already. Freddy also puts people to sleep with zero effort, usually paired with slow down addons that require zero input from him to work because people fall asleep by themselves, and waking up requires either going across the map and wasting a lot of time, missing a skill check that will reveal your position to him, have someone wake you up which will take longer each time, or be hooked (lol). And Freddy has a TP ability that has pretty much no cooldown and allows him to travel faster than any other character in the game, except maybe Demogorgon but he needs to place his TPs beforehand, Freddy does not.
As for Spirit, people complain about the one-sided guessing games. You have very few cues as a survivor to know exactly where the Spirit is phasing, while she has all the info she needs. The only thing that can stop her is Iron Will, but 99% Spirits run Stridor to counter it. So you either run and she catches up to you because her phasing speed is very fast and can even become faster through add-ons, or you try to mind game her while having little information about where she is, meanwhile she most likely knows where YOU are because she can listen you cry and moan. And she also gets a fair amount of map pressure because as she phases fast, she can use it to go wherever she wants quickly.
As you can see, Doctor does not have any of these powers. He can shut down a loop if he plays well, but he needs to be good at it and a smart survivor will see it coming and try to get to another tile. He's one of the best killers for tracking (via screams + fake doctor illusions + red lights on the back of survivors) but he still needs to travel through the map to get to them and catch them. He has decent slow down through madness, via snap out of it and weird skill-checks, but only baby survivors will complain about this. Good survs will land most of those skill checks and snap out of it quickly. He's nothing like the other two imo.
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Because the kill charts mean nothing about actual killer strength, literally two of the best three killers in the game are in the bottom two or so, Huntress worse than Clown bla bla, they are mostly about how easy a killer is to play and also their effectiveness vs bad players can be a factor (Red ranks are 90+% babies, Doctor is effective vs bad players due to detection ability, so he will perform well) - I'd honestly label atleast 90% of the 4 other players in my matches as anywhere from abysmal-okay in my games, that's because of this games matchmaking system being awful and basically random picking. Very blatant to people with actual hours of experience in the game that Doctor/Pig are nowhere even remotely close to Spirit/Freddy, unfortunately categories for 'good' or 'okay' players don't exist where you can see performance in evenly skilled matches, instead it's just the mess it is
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Just want to add with doctor he loses movement speed to use his ability. Therefore you can actually react and make a decision. Sometimes you're just dead in some spots against him but more power to a good doctor player.
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