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Comments
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Dont let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
The funny part about the overwhelming majority of survivors whining about "tunnel & camping" is that they dont even know what thos two things mean. If a killer happen to NOT go out of its way to ignore the already wounded survivor passing infront of him, he is totally tunelling, even when he still, somehow, managed to kick 2 gens and land 3 hits on other suvivors in the mean time, and if he DARE not do a 180 and run to the other side of the map as soon as he has hooked someone, it's obviously camping.
Give me a break. I'm rank 1 killer and rank 1 survivor (solo only) and the number of legit camping I've experienced can be counted on a single hand, and most of them were very obnoxious facecamping budda that will not get more than 2K like that anyway, and tunneling? Frankly it's even rarer than that if you look at it objectively and not "OMAGAD I can't believe he went for the wounded" whining.
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when working as a group survivors are the power role. even after one is dead, if 2-3 gens have already been done they will still pretty easily get out with 3, either by hatch or door. without working as a group (btw you can work as a group solo, it is rare but it can happen) then they are not the power role. lets talk about post 2018, when killers were getting nerf hammers and their perks being altered and what not. before 2018 sure there was a great deal of killer sided things, you can see there was a change in view point. actually survivor perk not lasted that long without alteration? I guess prove thyself didn't get altered in 2019 finally? and leader at the same time where their synergy was FINALLY removed? NOED changed before 2018 and weakened the perk. legion was nerfed from it's release state (it was needed yes) within a month maybe two of release? undying within 3 months of release in 2021, ruin was changed in 2019 to weaken it. and it wasn't till then that prove thy self and leader's combination nerf happened. so yea killers have been hit hard recently and survivors benefited from it.. how about freddy finally getting reworked and about amonth later maybe two they nerfed him and he's being nerfed again? DS is barely being touched and it's re-work just puts it right in with how everyone uses it. OOO is possibly more powerful than before so BLAMO there ya go...
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bye!
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^ hello
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My definition is chasing the same person again whether you pretend you are or not through proxy camping, leaving the hook and returning is still tunneling. You can't play much survivor if you don't see it because killers literally do this all the time, especially high mobility killers. Killers wanted this nerf so they can tunnel easier and tunneling will be running rampant. Being paralyzed from doing anything productive is not a perk.
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You know you are talking to a hardcore survivor main when they start spewing stuff like "proxy camping", ie the made up word to describe what is not camping, but they would really like if everyone thought it was.
Proxy camping isn't a thing. It's called paroling and defending a hook against obvious survivors that are rushing to unhook rather than do their job and work on gens, this is HOW THE GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED against bad survivors that dont apply enough gen pressure, yaknow the thing survivor mains love to throw at killer, turns out "gen pressure" works also both ways, if you dont do it as survivor and rush hooks, well guess what? The killer has no reason to not stick around and catch thos survivors, since that's kinda his whole goal.
If you give a reason for the killer to stay there by being nearby, it's on you, not on him.
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i see so once you are chased and hooked the killer can never chase you again. that is a great way for a killer to not gain any traction in ranking. great definition. the accepted definition is when a killer intentionally tunnels you after you are rescued from the hook. If the killer returns to the hook (hey another survivor is there) then that other survivor shouldn't disappear on you and take the chase, if there is no one but you to chase ??? why aren't you hiding? also if you leave a huge trail of scratch marks to you how is the killer supposed to know who they belong to? also if you are off the hook and they are hooking one or more others and you RUN into the killer, it's NOT tunneling for them to go after you. get over it and play or don't.
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Time and time again, thos salty survivor main prove how warped their view of the game is, and it's the source of their EXTREME toxicity.
They just don't understand how the game work, and they learned a very warped definition of "Camping & Tunneling".
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No, I'm just not one of those who uses the same losing strategy as you have stated, then runs to the forums when that losing strategy loses. Remember, this whole conversation started with you complaining that your "brave, high level" tactics kept getting you rehooked. Don't worry though, I'm sure the hook is very impressed with your courage when you are put right back on it.
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You're clearly stressed out. Take a break or play another game. Get well soon.
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proxy camping is a thing just because killer want to hit rescued survivor or survivor that will rescue hooked survivor. its pretty common, killer wont leave hook at all, this will be easily countered if survivor is swf but if its not usually 1-2 people will try to rescue and killer got free hit
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Oof, that was pretty hard to read ngl.
No, proxy camping isn't a thing, and what you just described isn't even that, it's just camping.
When offered a choice between someone that is already wounded and 1 hook down, and someone else that is full life and with all its hook, going for the unhooked is the most logical, right and intended way to play the game, pretending otherwise is just not fooling yourself.
Survivors need to realize that they need to force the killer to get away from the hook, and the only way to do it is gen pressure.
AGAIN, "proxy camping" (ie defending the hook) is a situation created by the survivors, not the killer.
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Judging by your comments on posts you are a killer main correct me if im wrong
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If you are following the scratch marks to where they are trying to heal, then you are tunneling. You just aren't making it obvious but you know what you are doing. If you aren't tunneling, you would be chasing one of the other 3.
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if i'm following scratch marks I don't know who left them. they don't say hey MEG #1 left me! they are scratch marks. I have litterally been patrolling gens during and after a hook rescue and I come across scratch marks, not even CLOSE to the hook, and i see movement, I swing and there is the one that was just down off the hook did I tunnel? NO I did not because I did not INTENTIONALLY look for that person I'm using my environment to find survivors. usually if I realize it's someone that was just on the hook I'll leave them slugged or pick them up to get them moving and move on. but that's situational. if there are two left and doors are powered? all bets are off i'm rehooking, why? it's my job as killer to kill not be nice.
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Yes. But I'm also a rank 1 solo survivor, so unlike 99.9% of the survivor mains, I know what I'm talking about.
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This is the most insane thing I've read a survivor say in a while, and they say pretty wild stuff on a daily basis.
Get this, if you FOLLOW THE SCRATCH MARKS, to where someone is healing, they you are tunneling.
This guy LITERALLY think that unless you go out of your way to ignore someone you have a lead on and go out of your way again to let that wounded survivor get away, you are actually tunneling.
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Survivors or killers they are all toxic hell i consider myself toxic sometimes depending on the situation
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I wont deny that some killers are toxic, but overall, they are way, WAY less toxic than the survivors.
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So if you get unhooked next to a 90% complete gen that's regressing and don't hear a terror radius you're going to flee from that gen? When you and the unhooker could finish it in a few seconds? And then you're going to come here and call me a noob for banging it out? Sound stupid?
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I.. no...?
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That video clip I've posted a bit earlier is very on relevant to most of what has been said in that thread from the whiny survivors.
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Nor should they be able to do anything to help the team while also being invincible in the process. DS will be there to stop a killer from tunneling. If you were working on your objective, in no way, shape or form, is it fair to say the killer "tunneled". Just no.
You can't work on your objective and then whine when the killer does theirs in turn.
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by bro good luck on your next game
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Ok bye! See you next week!
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Run deliverance and ds, it's a good anti-tunnel build. Same with unbreakable and soul-guard. If a killer tunnels you, run better perks lol.
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What does that even have to do while being tunneled now? lol... Also DS will still prevent tunneling. So the nerf its more like a QOL change, that should have been implemented long ago. You are being tunneled? you still get your DS. Do you want 60 sec inmunity while repairing? nope
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Again, according to your own first post, when you do that, you get hooked. So yeah, if you keep getting hooked by doing the same thing, but still keep doing it, that's probably an issue on your end, not the killer who is taking advantage of you making yourself so much easier to find.
If you had come here claiming it always worked that would be one thing, but you came here specifically complaining that it doesn't, especially against stealth killers (you know, killers who have ways to stop their terror radius from being heard). Your first post was complaining that you were being "camped and tunneled" by stealth killers having the temerity to check the hook and see if you were right there, the rest has been you desperately trying to pretend that's not your fault.
But in the end, what do I care? I'm only likely to meet you in game while playing killer, and as you've made plain here, that means I'll only need to chase you down and hook you once, and you'll just give up the other hooks for free thanks to having the tactical mind of a root vegetable. So please, forget I said anything and just keep doing you.
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The definition of tunnelling can be kinda vague but it's hard to have a discussion with anyone who thinks you can get unhooked, heal up, do a gen, other survivors get hooked in the meantime, then you get downed again and that's you being tunnelled.
I don't even know why you'd play this game as survivor if your perception of it is so broad you feel that literally every killer you go against is tunnelling you.
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If what you're saying is true, then you weren't actually tunneled. Real tunneling will not be effected by this "nerf into the ground".
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You realize deranking is only bannable if you do it just to get easier matches and bully the lower ranks? Which would genuinely be hard to prove so they won't ever do anything (trust me I decided to try Nurse on crossplay once and lost 10 ranks, never got banned because it wasn't my goal to derank it just happened).
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Being "invincible" is a fictitious thing killers fabricated to persuade the devs to nerf it. IF killers are afraid of the stun they could have downed the person with their weapon. A slug is powerful because hell killers did it with or without DS. You can't tell me they are invincible. Is Sprint Burst nerfed next? They are working on a gen with a perk ready to sprint them away from it.
Killer didn't practice what they are preaching. They picked people up after unhooking people, getting hit with DS, and then cried to the devs. Apparently if a survivor perk requires a little forethought it is too much. But killer perks on the hand, we must stop doing the objective and look for secondary objectives simply because a killer decides to use a perk. And bettter yet, be punished for doing the objective (NOED, Tinkerer).
Double standards are real.
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quick question, just to make this clear:
is this, in your opinion, a tunneling scenario:
you are working on a gen and get roughly 70% done by the time the killer interveines and quickly downs you. you are now being hooked and your gen is being kicked (lets just assume there is no pop in play, so the gen stays around the 70%). a teammate is quick to rescue you, you havent been on the hook longer than maybe 20 seconds, your gen still being in the high 60% to low 70%. both of you waste no time on healing and immediately jump back on the generator to finish it, when all of a sudden the killer is back. He downs you again and injures your friend before picking you back up.
so: is this killer tunneling you?
note: to keep this fair i'd like to ask you to only reed the following after answering the question previously asked
here's my thoughts on this scenario:
as soon as you went back on the generator instead of leaving the dangerous area and healing back up, you made it quite clear that you think you're out of danger and that you feel confident enough to further progress your objective. at this point i would no longer speak of a killer "tunneling" you, but rather of a killer interrupting further progress on your objective.
you have proven to be the easiest target in this scenario, but you have also proven to be just as much of a threat to the killer as your healthy friend. therefore, the way i see it, it would be quite unlogical for the killer to just ignore you just because you've been the last one that was on a hook. the killer knows that, should he decide not to "tunnel" you and chase your friend instead, he is going to lose the generator you two have been on just now, as you will finish it.
if you had really cared about not being tunneled, you'd have left without jumping back on the gen.
therefore i do not think the killer is to blame / to punish for rehooking you in this case, as you willingly accepted the risks that came with you jumping back on the gen instead of stealthing away and healing up.
i asked you this, because i feel like this is where our definitions of "tunneling" go apart.
you say that its tunneling whenever the killer is going after you again in a short timeperiode after being unhooked. while i dont think this is necessarily a wrong approach, i think the actions the survivor performs after the unhook are to be taken into account aswell.
and i think that, whenever the survivor starts progressing their objective (= progeress bar actions, such as the gen in my scenario), they are no longer in the position to complain when they get targeted again by the killer.
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I never really get why people post announcing they are done playing a game (not just this game).
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and the fact that you can be tunneled while you are progressing the game is a fallacy that survivors use to convince the devs to nerf the killers. oh I can't get on a gen right after being unhooked because the killer will come tunnel me! NERF THEM! make them pay for playing their part in the game! and it happens. Do you wish to even talk about undying/ruin? sure lets bring that up here "OH NO! there is ruin in play! I can't do gens because the killer is keeping us off of the gens so gens are regressing! We can't play the game because we can't win!" when if the team took the 12-15 seconds each to take down one totem and someone to get a second you got all 5 totems, including ruin and undying. but NOOO can't do that... can't be arsed to take a dull totem down (which btw if you take 3 dulls down and they have undying and ruin you get ruin back then it did not do anything but now you have to find both lit totems!
Killers did not argue about DS till DS got to be opressive. first survivors said it told the killer who had DS, so then the devs made it the only obsession perk that would more than likely lie about who was the obsession. Then it got changed again because if you weren't the obsession it would take toooooo long to be useful. (ok i might have these two reversed) so at this point DS was useful if you were or were not the obsession. then because of it's interaction with that of enduring you couldn't get away so the timer was extended to 5 seconds, and then shortly after that enduring did not affect it at all.... at this point it was a guaranteed escape at EGC! AND people used it as a weapon. this is where DS/UB came into being. This is the start of the issue of the invincibility, where if a killer did come back and tunnel you they downed you but with an obsession then they left you on the ground and you used UB to get up and keep going, if they picked you up you used DS. and if they didn't get back in seconds you hopped on that gen right next to it and when the killer came around instead of letting go and running you let them get the grab and blamo DS used. Another thing that happened was the killer never came back, moved around the map chasing others, and runs across the injured one and well there is no timer on screen so they picked you up and blamo DS! even though they didn't tunnel you.
So NO they do not make this up what so ever, it can be seen in many streamers' streams. Survivors have caused more killer nerfs than killers caused survivor nerfs over the last 2-3 years of this game. I do not include changes in the first year of the game because it still needed to be worked on.
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Yes, that is definitely tunneling. He was rehooking the same person when there was in fact two. He focused on the person recently unhooked instead of hooking the other person. Whether that is the smartest thing for the killer or not, its a perk should be for to protect against going right back on the hook in a short period.
You could interrupt progress, slugging that survivor IF you are afraid of being DS'ed. Killers often slug even without DS why is that not reasonable counterplay?
All of the conditions can be exploited by killers. If they see the same person healing or doing whatever, they have the free pass to chase the same person because the perk is deactivated.
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slugging isnt seen as counterplay to the perk for two reasons:
1) the survivor can jump in lockers to avoid getting downed in the first place and "force" the DS on the killer
2) Unbreakable (and other perks) can pick them back up
"its a perk should be for to protect against going right back on the hook in a short period." - so basically you're saying that DS should NOT be an anti tunnel perk, but instead be one that grants you immunity for a certain time frame after each hook, is that correct?
or do you think that any time the killer tries to rehook you during this active time periode means the killer was automatically tunneling, therefore DS being an anti tunnel perk? in that case a debate would be quite pointless, as it would just boil down to the two of us having a very different understanding of the term "tunneling", therefore we probaply wont come to an agreement.
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Whether it is hiding in a locker or purposely jumping in a locker, you are tunneling.
So Unbreakable counters slugging. In both cases, they are 1-time use perks to counter the killer. DS counters being put right back on the hook and Unbreakable counters slugging. I see nothing wrong there. The survivor is trying to do objective the same as killer. Killers are never shy about using perks to stop the objective.
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but the killers objective is to actively hinder survivors from doing theirs.
do you really think a perk that allows survivors to work on their objective for 60 seconds after being unhooked without it being interruptable by the killer is fair?
for reference, thats 60 out of the needed 80 charges on a generator. on each survivor, twice a match - that has the potential to get very overpowering and very unfair for the killer very quickly.
not to mention that it would basically be a perk that punishes killers for doing their objective. its very similar to NOED in a way, if NOED hadnt gotten that Dull Totem requirement that allows survivors to get rid of it.
also, whether you're being tunneled or not, you asked why slugging wasnt seen as counterplay - and jumping in a locker hardcounters the slug counter, as it wont let the killer down you in the foist place. either they let you go or they eat the DS, slugging isnt an option in a lot of cases.
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The killer has a weapon. You can interrupt the progress. Sprint Burst does the exact same thing, survivor waits until you are at the gen and sprints away unharmed.
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What exactly are you doing when this happens?
Standing there and watching them do the generator in your face?
LMFAO
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Why are people still go on the forums to announce that they are leaving? I mean just leave. This may sound a little sad/slightly harsh, but not everyone cares about your status. I'm just saying I personally find it pointless.
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The things I like about this game, it's a great concept, it's unique and so far have not found a game like it, characters are not cartoons but not to realistic, you have a variety of characters features and perks to choose from. You don't need to be in a chat it's simple and easy to figure out but not to easy.
The things I hate, so many bugs, unbalanced, to many usless perks, it's one sided. The maps are to bright. Community can be hyper aggressive. No way to block someone from matching with you. Report option is pointless, hit boxes, toxic players on both sides. Matching is terrible.
These are ofc my own thoughts and information so if you argue with them that's fine I just don't agree with you. Also most people are liking the new graphics but my thoughts are. You can dress a turd up but it's still gonna stink. I don't hate the game but I can understand why someone would quit, I certainly feel no loyalty to this game or its creators. And I have been playing for many years now.
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Alright, first: no, you choose which generators you ignore for survivors to work on. You cannot keep all gens against a decent team, so you let them have gens that are not worth patrolling(an example: Groaning Storehouse has 2 side pieces on the map with each side having 1 gen, they are not worth keeping unless you have all the pressure). If the survivors work on a gen not worth defending, you can rush 1 off for a chase and let the gen be finished because ITS NOT WORTH DEFENDING.
Depending on how YOU choose to operate also affects survivors. If you hook survivors at the closest hook available everytime, you're danm sure that survivors will take advantage of that. You need to hook strategically and then go to your most precious gen that you cant afford to lose. If ran to that generator while you were chasing without you noticing anything, you simply prioritized finding survivors over making sure your strongest gens are not being worked on. Optimally, you'd find survivors while checking your strongest gens.
And never playing the power role while playing in defense? Survivors also play in defense. They run from you to avoid being hit, they heal to stay alive, they unhook to save their teammates. Killers ARE offensive because they injure survivors, they are the role who can actively punish the opponent whenever they see a mistake, where survivors can only punish a killer passively(doing gens when ignored, for example) and only have a few active punishments(pallet stuns, locker stuns, flashlight blinds) available to them. The only way for survivors to be guaranteed a 4 man escape, they will need the map in their favor(while also having a killer who performs bad on that map), pallets, windows AND gates in their favor. Considering the average result is a 3k, this very obviously points to the killer being the power role.
No, survivors dont lead. The killer doesnt have to chase the survivor he finds. The killer has many choices: where to apply pressure, which survivor to chase, where to hook survivors. Survivors have to be really, really, really good while the killer is bad for survivors to have the power role. If the killer and survivors are equally skilled, the killer is the power role.
Heck, if I can run Third Seal unironically as a usable perk on Myers against great survivors with 4k hours each and get a 3k. Aka, one of the weaker killers with weaker perks against strong survivors, there is no way that survivors are the power role. Do they still finish gens? Sure. Do they sometimes loop me for longer than 30 seconds? Sure. But how does the powerrole LOSE against a weak opposition, unless that weak opposition is the power role?
Survivors can be the powerrole, yes, but they are not by default. Survivors need a ######### ton of pressure with the killer fully ignoring their pressure for them to become the powerrole. As a killer, you either relieve their pressure by hooking survivors in a place that forces them to lower pressure or by directly applying pressure on the generator they want to finish. If you lose a very strong generator early on, its your fault for not applying the pressure. So stop pretending to be a victim, if I can average 3k's on a Myers with Third Seal against good survivors, either 1 of 2 things is true: 1. I am a god with Myers 2. Killers ARE the power role. I doubt I am a god with Myers, I might be top 10% of Myers players, but far from the top 1%.
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You have issues; displacement? I'm not pretending to be the victim. I'm not pretending to be anything. I merely refuted your flawed argument. I play both Survivor (Solo) and Killer. Your weird "us versus them" bias is showing. This is the game; it is a 4v1 of individually weak Survivors against a Killer who will wax them 1v1. As a group, however, they are more than capable of winning, and are most certainly the so-called "Power Role" as you advance in skill.
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This. People act like DS is a something sent from the gods that will punish the killer tremendously if they tunnel. If saves you a bit of time, but that is about it, it doesn't do much for hardcore tunneling.
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You do realize that pre-2018 only survivors had recieved nerfs? Prove Thyself+Leader didnt need alteration untill 2019 because Dying Light wasnt altered untill 2019. Same reason why Agitation+Iron Grasp didnt need alteration in 2017 because hooks never respawned.
Noed NEEDED a change. It reduced attack cooldowns in combination with STBFL, and Dying Light+Mori already gave permanent decrease in gen speeds. Add Ruin to Dying Light, Mori, STBFL and Noed, then you have an impossible combination. Which is why the Saboteur meta existed for a reason, because it forced killers to drop at least 1 perk to be able to reach the basement.
Undying needed changing. Having a hex totem persist up to 4 cleansings because of virtual RNG, which is essentially luck? Ruin is far too powerful for that. Yes, they may have nerfed it too big, but Undying only had synergy with Ruin. Right now, Undying Devour Hope is a thing, and no one wants to face that.
Yes, Prove Thyself and Leader couldnt be altered untill Ruin was. Survivors back then already had near impossible odds of escaping. The average killrate was 3.5. The suspected average kill rate SHOULD be 2k's(Assymmetrical games dont mean assymmetrical results). Having the average kill rate being essentially a 4k basically means there is no real reason in playing survivor as escaping through a gate is essentially impossible if the killer has a brain.
Freddy's rework made him too overpowered, and he is still overpowered with very little counterplay. Killers NEED counterplay, otherwise the basic response to killers would be a genrush. Not having any counterplay other than a genrush makes a killer really boring to play against, let alone that the only thing that killer has to do is build genregression. And Freddy being able to use something like Pop and Tinkerer makes him simply broken as a killer. Freddy's only weakness is the EGC, and guess what? 90% of Freddy games never reach the EGC. Yet you believe he is fine?
DS is pretty fine as it is, as for new OoO? Its stronger for solo players, but if all survivors use it, then survivors dedicated 4 full perk slots to it. Which does counter a lot of aura reading perks on killers, but having 1/4th of all survivor perks to counter aura readings would fit perks like Third Seal taking up 1/4th of killer perks which also counter aura readings.
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How do I have issues? I main both roles. Have at least 300 hours in my 3 main killers and at least 1k hours as survivor. It's no us vs them, I legit observe the game, and never had issues playing as a killer. It's extremely rare that a 4 man escape happens, but its extremely common that I get a 4k. And I am not talking about facing bad survivors either, I sometimes play with crossplay off because a lot of optimal (solo) survivors play there. If survivors truly were the powerrole, I would encounter 0k's and 1k's much more often. Yet, even with crossplay off, the average is a 3k.
With a Myers
Running Third Seal
Including maps like Ormond
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i havent played in 3 months. i come back and the game is hot trash. ABSOLUTE TRASH.
the developers should be ashamed. you are terrible at game design. the game is just a mess from top to bottom.
Every game as survivor its rank 17s vs red rank killers. I play killer and then I see all the redrank swf sweat squads. so fair.
You got breakable walls every 5 yards ruining the maps
you got all the latency bs. Unhooks and grabs don't work. It turns the tide of the damn game sometimes just losing grabs. I just hit a survivor as they were running for the exit gate and I ######### you not they SLID across the floor. A damn baseball slide through the barrier. 2k+ hours I have and I've never seen that yet here we are.
You got the clown rework which is a joke, fixes none of the problems he had, nobody wanted this, but this is the only rework we'll ever get for him during the lifespan of the game. a killer I enjoyed using i now no longer want to play anymore so well done for that
you got the wraith "buff" where they had to nerf him at the same time too with that stupid delay. lmfao needing to give the wraith a nerf along with his buff just to stop the Wraith from being too powerful 🤣
you got all the usual bugs that come with an update and then you've got bugs that have been in the game for over a year now. silent survivors anyone?
Any killer thats fun just gets nerfed into a clunky mess. This isn't about power it's about how they feel. The nerf is always to give them cooldowns, or delays to attacking or animations. Like pyramidhead and now wraith. They go from feeling responsive to clunky and it just sucks the fun out of them.
I'm gonna shelf this garbage for another 3 months i think. peace out.
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Ok.
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