I understand some people think it takes no skill to play certain things but...
It does in fact take some amounts of skill and sentience to play every single character in the game.
Just because some take mountains of skill and some take molehills doesn't mean those molehills aren't challenging for some people or that the molehills can't be anywhere near as strong as the mountains.
Accept the fact that some things can be easier than others and compromise on changes that might promote more skill based play instead of nerfing the characters because they don't take as much skill to play for a similar payoff or in some opinions less skill to play for a bigger payoff
That is all (and yes this is both sides)
Comments
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Yep. Even if you boil things down to a literal M1 Killer against no Perks, no Items Survivors, the process of looping, trying to keep track of/predict the state of the other players in the game, and using those opportunities to achieve your goals absolutely does take skill. That, while it might not actually retain a playerbase due to not being very interesting, would still have a skillcap worth several hundred hours.
with that said freddy very consistently gets results that are too good in proportion to the effort you need to learn him and spirit while having a much higher skillfloor has a similar problem, thank you for coming to my ted talk.9 -
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Sentience is a pretty low bar, but I mean... Dbd is pretty low bar too.
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When it comes to characters like Freddy and Deathslinger, the only amount of skill required to perform well is learning tiles. That is what players find annoying. The worst is how players know the ins-and-outs of Slinger by just playing Battlefield.
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It all comes down to skill as the better player has learned to block counter attempts and read mind games. It will always look like you have no options when your opponent can read and control the situation.
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Yea because actually predicting where people will go and actual aim clearly take no skill. /s
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Simplicity and complexity should have the same result.
A simple gameplay should not be less efficient than a complex one, nor more. A complex gameplay should not justify an insane superiority just because it's harder to master.
If someone choose to learn the hard parts, it's his choice, but the only thing that he should gain from it would be his own way of fun.
At least that how things should be in a perfectly balanced game, but I'm not against some differences if they are fair. Some gameplay are better in some specific ways, while others are best on another part of the game. Often, the problem is that where a gameplay is best lead to being even better than others (exemple: being good on mobility beat being good on chase).
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Nobody can have skills across genre and use that as a selling point to interest people in new characters
thats not a good marketing tactic
having characters with skills across genres of games
now thats a good marketing tactic
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Im not saying that certain characters don't take what feels like mountains less skill to still get a good result im just saying to some level you always have to somewhat play the game to preform
but yea more skill based play for freddy would be nice0 -
I know they feel robbed because of how much more they had to learn but still the killer has to do something they don't get everything with nothing it still takes a bit even if its less than the survivors might want them to have to learn
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How can you compare Deathslinger with Freddy?
Deathslinger has to actually aim well and predict movement
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Yea Freddy Just has to abuse the fact that no one actually does the counterplay against him of holding w instead of looping
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Holding w isn't really counterplay though is it?
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alright look at it this way
you can't loop freddy due to his power
so instead if you spend the same amount of time running in a straight line towards a pallet distanced to drop it before he hits you, you would have spent the same amount of time reaching it instead of just looping something with a normal m1 killer
the difference is that it cancels out freddies power because its only strong at loops and not strong in a W chase
1 pallet against a 115% speed killer buys you 2.7 seconds if the killer breaks it
in 2.7 seconds a survivor can gain 10.8 meters of distance the killer only gains 0.6 meters on you per second which gives you 15 seconds to run and find another pallet
looping against a killer wouldn't save you any time just stretch out the 15 seconds around the loop
freddys power cuts loops short so if you don't give him a chance to cut a loop short by finding a pallet around the 12-16 second mark of a w chase you can use that pallet to keep the chase going, and you spend the same amount of time pallet looping within the W chase so not much of a loss
You can also loop around most windows but only 1 loop unless its already trapped which makes it a no go
at that point he is just a weaker trapper because he would have to prepare ahead with his power instead of being able to use it actively
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Deathslinger is only like this because he can cancel ads with zero consequence which is what makes him easy. His shooting part used effectively is actually quite hard and skilled.
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I had no idea holding M2 to look down the barrel of your weapon took skill. The prediction is 50/50. The spear travels at such a high velocity that survivors don't have time to dodge it. They either preemptively move out of the way or the killer simply misses. I mean, that or your projectile phases through your target.
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I wasn't comparing them to each other, I said neither of them requires heavy knowledge of the game's mechanics. The only skill that I can see Slinger having is following your target if you aim for prolonged periods of time since there is no aim assist on The Redeemer.
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Pyramid Head had the exact same issue.
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Yep and he has a stronger kit than deathslinger. I think with deathslinger they need to punish cancel ads and give him some way to map transverse. My suggestion is he can shoot terrain and reel himself to it. Cooldown up to balance but he can no longer cancel ads free. If he does he is losing distance.
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And there ya go. Deathslinger is fixed.
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What many people don’t realise is that dbd is a full-blown RTS which inherently takes skill and strategy regardless of who you play.
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Being good in a fps arguably takes more skill than looping in DBD. FFS people rip on killers like survivor is so hard, just sprint burst to the main building or shack and you run around and around and around. It's not rocket science and any m1 killer is easy to loop because the mechanics of the game literally don't allow them to get a hit in unless you screw something up.
That's not to say there aren't good survivors and these good survivors are normally able to adapt and keep a spirit and nurse running too, but I see so many red rank survivors that have their ego boosted by exhaustion perks, god pallets and holding W. You can actually waste a lot of the killers time with no skill required.
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You're right to say fps takes skill but once again you go on this vendetta tangent against survivor players unrelated to the discussion. Can you for the love of all the good things in this world stop venting about survivor skill. We get it. You're superior than survivor players in every way possible.
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Disagree. Harder gameplay should be rewarded by better results.
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Exactly otherwise nobody plays them. It cannot be overpowered though. Just strong.
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Not necessarily true. While deathslinger has a gun it preforms a lot different then your average battlefield or COD gun. It’s a projectile that you have to ads to fire. Also just because you shot someone doesn’t mean you’ll get to them in time
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so you agree that it takes skill to not miss the target, thanks for playing
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being good in an fps is one thing but having the fps suddenly play at the speed that dbd plays at it becomes much easier especially when you are the only one with a gun and you can force most shots successfully
however yes that is not all there is to it, its basically playing dbd then a fps on top of it which is a combo that requires a bit more out of the average person
it has its ups and downs to it but skillwise and gameplay wise that someone who is skilled is hated
2nd parts a bit ranty but yea people who think they can do something with god pallets make them good at the game are wrong, it's about the people who can make something great out of something bad that are the survivors to watch out for
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Harder gameplay is rewarded with better results (sometimes)
Examples Spirit and Nurse
Sure they can both preform pretty well even with decent people playing them but when you watch people go the distance one becomes a mountain that is insurmountable by most while the other is spirit, not saying thats a bad thing but once you have sound down its as simple as perfecting your craft, but nurse has potential to go far and beyond anything a spirit player could ever hope of preforming.
Example Freddy and Blight
Sure you can say how easy it is to 4k with freddy, even tell me you have 10 games in a row without any escapes because of how strong his power is before you had a game where survivors did all the gens and 2 got out, but having seen my mountain of experience with blight I can tell you one pales in comparison, blight is infact one of the strongest killers in the game with both one of the highest mountains to climb and one of the strongest payoffs I can count the number of fully powered gen exit gate escapes on one hand, its 4, with 8.4k lethal rush hits landed on blight
Given the right characters enough time their potential truely shines which makes even spirit and freddy pale in comparison to some of the most potent characters in dbd so don't fret about harder gameplay being rewarded, it currently is.
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