So a lot of people say new clown was not an improvement so I decided to finally make a video
I see a lot of people either bashing new clown saying his new bottles aren't effective, and a few people saying that they are, but with no proof to back it up. So I decided to play a round and record it for once. It isn't the best gameplay I have done with new clown, but I think it showcases how much more efficient clown is now compared to what he once was. Hopefully this gameplay will help people take it into their own hands, and this is how new clown was supposed to be played as. Sure there are more things you can do with his new bottles, but I thought for a while his new bottles would suck, but boy I proved myself wrong. It's crazy how good he can be now with some set ups.
Comments
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99.99% purple with potato survivors.
oh and a couple of happy little accidents when using the yellow to traverse the map.
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Didn't really use yellows to traverse the map I already knew where people were. Yellows are not really efficient in actual loops. They were kind of potato. If you watched the video you would see how fast I closed the gap on them. So they could not get to loops quick enough. If you actually watched the video it was like close to 60 purple 40 yellow. So I don't know where you got your information from lol.
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Inb4 "doesn't count, survivors were pota... ow too late already happened.
This is why people don't bother with video evidence of things being better then people think.
I once showed a 4 hour video of somebody winning 20 games in a row on rank 1 as Legion to show they aren't that bad and apperently all 80 of those survivors were potatoes
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I do the same exact thing against efficient teams too though. I mean I could spend hours surfing for 5k+ hour survivor squads if it means that much to certain people, but I mean is it really worth it to me? Not really. Most of the time I closed the gap on them to where they couldn't even loop. People often forget that most survivors in most videos or games are just average. It's rare to find groups where they are super efficient. This was 2 man and another 2 man group. I mean they defo played better than most 4 mans usually do against me lol. They actually got some gens done.
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The vast majority of survivors are so bad that it's hard to get any data from games with them. If it was 1v1, it would be a lot better, but because there's 4 survivors the odds of having one or two bad survivors in a game to swing it in the killer's favor is higher than getting 4 decent survivors.
The issue is that the game coddles survivors and holds their hand all the way, so there's absolutely no incentive to get better as survivor, and you can easily get to high ranks without even interacting with the killer. You will escape at least half of your games if you do nothing but do gens and hide from the killer, you don't need to interact with the killer in any way. If the killer finds you, you can just sit there and let them hook you. You will still win about half your games if you do this method.
In determining the strength of a killer, you have to take a skilled and knowledged killer and put them up against a skilled and knowledged survivor. A skilled and knowledged survivor team will absolutely mop the floor with any killer player playing any killer at the highest possible skill level in the game. So using a metric like vs a whole team of skilled survivors is pointless in determining the strength of a particular killer as survivors are collectively many times stronger than any killer in the game.
What makes legion a bad killer is that they have to adhere to the rules of the game, and the rules of the game are severely survivor sided. This means having to actually chase survivors and catch up to them, allowing them to loop and get to pallets and windows. Legion's power isn't strong enough to interrupt survivor pathing. The strongest killers in the game have the ability to reach out and touch survivors to interrupt their pathing, to get them before they can make it to a pallet, or to circumvent the injured state entirely with a one hit down.
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That was what I was saying before too in a sense. Most survivors are average and aren't super efficient. Finding a group of survivors that are really good is already super rare. I do play against those groups sometimes, but like I said it's rare. Why I made the video was more of a way that shows that this strategy of yellow and purple are efficient even against super strong survivors. With new clown he allows gaps to be closed extremely quickly. Is he an S tier or even an A tier killer now? Hell no, but he is much more efficient than he use to be. It is hard to gauge a strength of a killer like you said on average game data, because 95% survivors aren't very good. Legion suffers from a power to stop people from looping. Clown has a power to stop people from looping. Even against strong survivors they like to hold w hardcore also against most m1 based killers, because they typically can. Clown now doesn't allow for that, because he can easily close the gaps between loops. Legion still can't do that, but with proper mindgaming he still can be an efficient killer. Legion does get into people's brains most of the time, because he gets a free first hit. So stronger survivors also make mistakes too.
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I have always found that a silly way of looking at the strengt of a killer. You can beat 95% of survivors but when you face one swf group with 10000 hours combined and get bodied the killer is obviously bad and should never be played.
The problem with looking at it like that is that the vast mayority of players aren't skilled and knowledgable. Judging killers strengt like that is only usefull for those who are skilled and knowledgable. It just gives the wrong idea to those who don't have 3k+ hours.
If you can reliably win against avarage survivors the killer isn't weak. And if you get dunked by the best of the best survivors for most people that's more that they aren't the best of the best of killers. They would have lost regardless of playing to some tierlist
Looking how viable killers are in tournament levels of play is only usefull for tournement level of play players.
For the rest we really need to rank them against what you actually go up against when you play the game at home. And concidering that. Neither Clown nor Legion is weak.
Not the best ofcourse. But certainly not a handicap like people want you to believe
Most people ofcourse don't want to admit when they get destroyed by the navy seals swf group that maybe they were just better then them and rather blame it on the killer they are playing
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The Clown's new incarnation is absolutely an improvement, i.e. he has powerful potential. Obviously, the improved reload time doesn't take any skill to utilize and is just plain awesome. The rest, however, is more complicated. I like to compare him to Nurse, because to unlock that potential Players have a STEEP learning curve. Using the new bottle effectively takes finesse and timing.
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You have to really predict and preplan where people are going to go in order to use his new bottles efficently. People are going to be upset at me, for going against an average survivor group in the video, but it just showcases how quickly the new bottles close gaps. Most people aren't even going to watch the video, and see I pretty much was split 50/50 on both bottles, and used purples for points a lot of times.
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Can you do anything with both bottles when the survivor is in a regular loop and you are on the pallet?
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I've tested a lot in loops with it, and it's not worth the time, because even if you set up a yellow and pink the survivor most likely is just going to move away, and or run into the yellow. It could work, but pink bottles are still better for normal loops. Yellows are great gap closers in between loops. If you set up yellow get into yellow then throw a pink you are right up on them again.
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I really like watching videos of good clown gameplay.There's just something so satisfying about getting those antidote and tonic setups right.
I really like the new Clown and i feel like it was definetely a success.He's got a higher skill ceiling now and is overall much better.I think a lot of people call it a weak rework because the strength isn't as apparent as it was with the doctor or leatherface rework.
I think i will start to gather some clips to show the uses of the antidote
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Determining strength off of higher skill levels creates a fair playing field in which the difference between two players isn't some stupid gimmick or mechanic, but skill, effort, and dedication.
As humans, we psychologically feel a loss much more acutely than a win. This is an issue with imbalanced games. You can win most of your games, and only lose a few, but the problem arises in how you lose those few games. This is what makes losing in DBD so horrible, because you tend to lose very badly. That loss leaves a much more potent impact on you psychologically.
It's actually not a silly way to look at a pvp game, it's actually the GOLD STANDARD for pvp game design. Generally speaking, pvp games that follow this formula are pvp games that last a long time as they have a healthy playerbase. When you lose in a balanced game, you go 'that person was so good.' When you lose in an unbalanced game, you go '(insert gimmick here) is so stupid, I would have won without that.'
You have to balance around things that break the game. Things that break the game are usually best exploited by the best players in the game. This also has the added benefit of giving the devs a logical reason for changing things, and there is pretty much no counter argument to it.
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I'm tempting of maybe uploading some gameplay of my own for the new Clown, I have to do it off PlayStation since I don't have the proper recording/streaming setup yet.
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Apparnely my 500+ hours of playing pyramid head and consistently hitting people outside of animation locks doesn't count cause it only works on potatoes too lmao
God i love this community sometimes. They just can't ever accept they're wrong.
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Yes,please.I love Clown gameplay but unfortunately there isn't much of it out there :(
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you don't have a nvidia gpu?
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Nope
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Fair enough, I can't argue with that logic. Still feels weird to call Clown or Legion weak when there are people that can just dominate match after match with them.
If you take what you said and the video into context of dbd it would be more a case or survivors being overtuned as oppose to Legion or Clown being undertuned right?
Idk dbd is just such a weird case with it being assymetrical and the matchmaking being what it is.
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Did you add the music? It was pretty cool. What is it?
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Dylan c jones - Osiris
Evan king - Titan striker
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Yeah new Clown is way better I think people are just a little stubborn with the new bottles. When this video shows it makes Clown ability to get from loop to loop much better. Since an issue with Clown before was you couldn't catch or slowdown the survivors enough before they could drop the next pallet. But with short reload and speed he's much better.
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He truly is. Most people won't even watch the video to understand I wasn't even using yellows to go across the map, but to close gaps. People on this forum often like to refuse the truth of things sometimes. :)
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Finally, someone with actual good clown gameplay to support their point. You showed well how the sonic tonic can be used to catch up faster and I'm sure you'd be able to use it well to counter many loops more efficiently as well. It doesn't matter that the survivors were potatoes since the showcase of catching up faster would happen equally vs good survivors.
But the problem isn't that clown would be weak, he's not that bad. Problem is that he's still a chase killer with purely focused chase power, the sonic tonic didn't give him mobility but another chase tool.
He's still outshined by better chase killers then he is so in terms of that, he's still one of the worse chase killers in the roster. I don't think clown should have received sonic tonic but insted some other ability that wouldn't be tied to chasing. A stall tool or a mobility tool, not another chase tool for a killer that's already chase oriented.
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i mean this is kinda where i sit too. There was no instance where the speed boost wouldnt have been equally as strong as just slowing them down an additional time. I get the value in closing gaps between you and a destination, but he never really used it for that purpose. Its an improvement for sure, but def not nearly as strong as he is trying to make it out to be
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Of course the PTB changes were improvements - Fact still remains Clown is needy for addons and will get dumped on by a lot of decent survivors and maps heavily affect Clown's performance too. The buffs were nice but unfortunately one video doesn't prove much regardless. What matters is consistency. If you were to post a vod of nothing but Clown gameplay that would be an easier form of evidence to convince anyone.
Nice gameplay though you are playing him pretty well how it was meant to be used granted could do a bit more if the map was more convenient.
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That doesn't make much sense because 10% and garish makeup kit = long duration. Normal tonics have a duration, and I don't think you are understanding 125% speed compared to 80% with flask of bleach. You get a 45% speed boost over a survivor compared to 115% over 80% That's a big boost. Like sure people who haven't played clown as much as me and some others won't fully understand this concept of significant this boost is. Even some of the top clown mains, have said this is a good strategy. I used it to close gaps, and throwing multiple tonics would've actually made the gap take much longer. If you set it up like I did in the video it is helpful. Is it the biggest buff he could've gotten? No, but that doesn't make it not a pretty decent buff for him.
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Plus any other buff than this and EVERONE would say how OP Clown is.
I don't want another Freddy like fiasco
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Yea I agree clown is a pretty addon dependent killer even with his reload being shorter now. I could live stream or whatever, and I might eventually. I just don't think anyone would actually want to watch the stream so like is it going to be worth the time? Eh not really. Not a lot of people are interested in good clown gameplay.
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You can't make people happy it seems. I'm pretty happy with this buff. I thought I wouldn't have been happy, but I actually am. Higher skill ceiling, and I'm still learning more after hundreds of hours with just clown now. People ripped on clownisking about him talking about how big the buff is to clown, and I post a video, because he wouldn't giving a strong example, and people will rip and deny me it's just something else.
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Oh yea. He is easy to gen rush no doubt about that. I'm trying to experiment with his bottles in different ways though. His new bottles are extremely useful on hold w gamers. His new bottles aren't suppose to be used for traversal which is a bummer, but his chase potential is significantly higher though. If I can find more ways to figure him out I will be sure to make new content on it. He can't be looped easily though I have to disagree on that one. There are some nasty setups that do allow him to be looped, but a nicely placed tonic can counter it.
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Some people are happy with the "buff" others think he needed more. Just like some people think his speed bottles are worth using and others don't. People will play him different. Can't say either style of play is wrong.
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You know the reworks a success when everyone is naysaying it and people are having to submit video evidence to try and convince people.
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More to come if I can find out more things to do with his bottles. :)
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You shouldn't have to was my point, a successful rework should have been obvious to most people.
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Most people never understood clown before. So I already knew what was going to come of his buff. I cringe whenever I play survivor, and see people trying to play clown, because people play him in such a poor way, and they go on to say clown is bad, because his power isn't as straight forward as it seems. Other reworks were much more straight forward. This one not so much. I do agree on that though.
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Not gonna say I play him enough to be an expert, but it just felt kinda weak for a buff? I get that its a buff, not a rework, but it just still feels a bit underwhelming.
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Yep. Evidence doesn't count nearly as much as screaming at the top of your lungs.
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Well most top clown players don't usually post gameplay and or stream. Most of the top one's have quit playing the game and or just don't play clown anymore, but the one's who do like me are grasping our heads around this is still a major buff to clown. I do not think there was another buff possible for him without making him too oppressive which is what happened to freddy. You have to understand that, most killers who have fast travel or any sort of speed typically have downsides. Clown does not have a downside with his speed. He is the only actual pure m1 based killer that now has a speed ability without an actual downside, besides survivors getting the buff walking into it. Which shouldn't be happening if you actually know what you are doing. If you are handing clown snares along with a speed boost, and people like to drop pallets a lot against clown, and clown didn't have anything to fill in the gap between a pallet. Now he actually does. You can end chases faster now.
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Clown is honestly scary to go against now, you can't play any tile if he takes control of the pallet.
Unless you outplay them by pushing a certain button with a certain perk, of course...
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Lol, in that video I outplayed steve so hard I just swung through his dead hard like it was nothing.
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I think Clown's mostly the same in terms of power, yellow bottles will only help you get quicker hits in certain situations like using them out in the open to gain distance on a survivor before they reach a loop, at that point you only need the purple bottles to stop them at loops. Clown's problems still remain that you still lack any proper map pressure. The only thing that's really changed about him in terms of strength are his addons because cigar box is stupid powerful because it basically gives you free vision around loops which is pretty nice actually. But unless you're downing people every 30 seconds you're gonna get dumpstered by cordinated players doing gens properly. I guess at the end of the day all I can say is that despite how much they changed the Clown he's still ironically the same for the most part. Some things he can do slightly better but that's about it.
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True, the distance gets hit hard, but a lucky couple of I-frames can be just as bad and unfair.
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I loved Clown on release, and I'm loving him so much more now.
Baseline he has been BUFFED.
His second bottles have some awesome usage imo.
I personally don't even think he was that bad before, definitely not low tier because well placed bottles lead to short ass chases. Now, we have that as well as some improvements and a new bottle type.
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I mean like I said before I am testing out if there are certain ways I can actually play his yellows properly in tiles without taking too long for it to be even efficient. Most killers get thrown in the dumpster even against coordinated teams. Except for your usual spirit and nurse, and sometimes hag. But even then you can dumpster them too. Because splitting up on gens is literally going to wreck any killer unless they slug. I have gone against some high hour teams before as clown and it would either end up me getting thrown in the dumpster or me getting close to getting thrown in the dumpster, but still pulling out a win. Clown needs to slug agaisnt those teams there is no way around it.
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He was never bad before I agree. Now old clown did require proper bottle placements, and he was still fine, but he was pretty much unplayable without cork stopper.
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The chase music improved at least.
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Hm, do you mean clowns chase music or the music I put in the background? Confused on what you exactly mean by that.
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Yeah the current top clown Ginger Bread has been busy with work and stuff. Source: I talk to him from time to time on steam. c:
Also whatsupppp
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95% of players are casuals.
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