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It's inevitable Dead Hard is going to get nerfed.
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Why do survivors get “effortless” bonuses? You get to use perks like dead hard, decisive, and BT mostly because you made a mistake. Let’s also not forget how pretty much every killer in the game has been complained about and nerfed.
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Oh so survivors. You literally described what survivors do just reversed the roles. So, yeah sounds like it's possible that survivor perks could get nerfed then. Thanks for the clarification.
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It just shouldn’t be an exhaustion perk. Like DS or Unbreakable, Dead Hard should only be allowed to be used once. That’s it.
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DH and Sprint Burst are both pretty busted.
DH lets you fix a mistake, especially if you get mind gamed, and not get hit. It lets you play greedy and be rewarded for doing so. People might not realize it but doing that can let you drop a pallet that's safe, which lets you get to another pallet, and another loop, and it can extend a chase you should've lost by a TON of time against a good survivor. That is not balanced or healthy.
Sprint Burst allows you to sit on a generator in the killers face until the very last second without ANY fear, because you can simply SB to the nearest pallet you're going to loop. You don't have to care about BBQ. Don't have to care if you hear the killer TR. No care of positioning or anything. Just a free escape to the safest area near you. The downside is walking but you don't have to walk if you run for a save because you're safe, you don't have to walk and hold it at the start because EVERY pallet is up.
Four people can do this MULTIPLE times per match. At least Lithe/Balanced actually require a set of events for activation. You have some of the worst perks killers can use and never do have massive CDs, but busted Exhaustion perks have such tiny cooldowns that even rest after a hook, that it's just disgusting. It's why I find people who complain about camping hilarious. Unhook. BT. DS. Still chased? DH.
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I don't think that would be good. I agree with limiting the number of uses but 1 use is too much. To have that you would have to buff it in some way.
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I’d be ok to a buff to the distance and invincibility frames if it could only be used once.
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I guess that would be OK but I'm a bit hesitant to make it one use. I say a max of 3 uses is fine.
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Nah. As it stands now a killer is likely to already deal with it 3 times each across each survivor in a SWF. The volume of times it can already be used is the problem.
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For distance sure, for the iframe bonuses nope, I only have a problem when it's a "I got outplayed and a good survivor made it to a strong pallet because he/she pressed E" that is when I have a problem with it, basically it's another free health state with good survivors.
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Dead hard is very easy to counter. All you have to do is: wait. It’s not that hard to figure out. So what??!! if they make the loop & throw the pallet? They only bought themselves a little more time. Dead hard is perfectly fine just the way it is. There’s no need nerf it. If it does happen, I hate to say it: the devs favor one group of players over the other (killer sided [hide] ) & that won’t be good for anybody. :/
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Oh yes the killers are crybabies. I bet you wont last in a chase for more than 30 seconds if you dont have dead hard. That's how much noob survivors rely on that perk. Failed a mindgame ? Press E, Got outplayed by the killer? Press E. Such skill.
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This thread did not age well
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Why do people bring up skill all the time in regards to Dead Hard?
Not a single perk in this game takes any skill to use so constantly trying to demean people for "not being skillful for using x perk" makes absolutely zero sense and serves nothing more than to try and make DH users feel bad.
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Amen.
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There has noticeable surge in threads complaining about Dead Hard and because of this its safe to assume that dead hard will be nerfed soon.
Just because a bunch of threads get made doesn't necessarily mean the issue will be addressed. They haven't touched Dead Hard in 4+ years of complaining, and I don't see any reason to expect change now. If anything, the addition of hit validation showed they're more or less fine with the perk's effect as is.
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Not to nitpick, but isn't saying that kind of supporting the point? I mean, when someone is saying "you're using X perk because are aren't skilled" and you say "that doesn't make sense because using perks takes no skill" is at best helping their argument, and at worst absolute nonsense.
That's exactly the point trying to be made; pressing E takes no skill, and you use it to bail yourself out of a situation you are in because of your lack of skill. Takeaway being that a skilled survivor doesn't need DH.
I mean, that's the entire point, and the entire basis of designating some perks as "crutch".
Or is it just really late and I am reading that wrong?
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I think you're just flat out wrong.
Saying "Dead Hard takes no skill, just press x" implies the other perks in the game take skill to use, which they absolutely do not, this leans towards the only reason people say "dead hard takes no skill" is try and put a negative spin on using dead hard and putting those down that use it. This is the only perk people say "doesn't take skill to use" why is that? None of the other skills take skill.
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"That's exactly the point trying to be made; pressing E takes no skill, and you use it to bail yourself out of a situation you are in because of your lack of skill. Takeaway being that a skilled survivor doesn't need DH."
You get that wrong. Survivors dont get saved by DH when they did an extra Loop, they do an extra Loop BECAUSE they have Dead Hard.
You may argue if it takes skill to use Dead Hard in the correct way, because there are Survivors who just use Dead Hard in a Deadzone, which increases their Chase Time by 1 second and gives the Killer the information that they have DH.
But overall, no Perk in DBD requires Skill. They are just "slap them on and use them". For both sides.
The outcome what the player does with those Perks is a different topic. See my DH-example above. Another example would be Infectious Fright for Killers. Using Infectious Fright requires 0 Skill. Deciding whether it is worth going for the Survivor or not however takes some experience and knowledge.
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I think you're working hard to create some weird equivalency here. I don't see anyone saying other perks perks take skill to use, but that certain perks are OP enough that they compensate for a lack of general game skill (DH and NOED being noteworthy among these). No perks take skill to use, but not all perks are created equal, clearly.
If you're a killer and you make a great play and/or clearly outplay a surv only to have them barely make it to a vault or pallet just by pressing a button, that is frustrating AF.
For the record, I don't have a problem with DH when working as it was intended (have we ever seen that, though?), but the killer side validation feedback and DH for distance have got to go.
Like NOED, I look at DH as a "training wheels" perk; good when learning, but because it consistently hands you success where you really failed, will stop you from getting better, or at least getting as good as you can be. And it creates a dependency, which is why people who have used it religiously can't bring themselves to stop running it.
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What? Of course the surv gets the extra loop because of DH, that's the whole point. That's what I was saying. It's an extra loop you got when you should have been down. All perks make the player's life easier to varying degrees, not many flat out save your ass when you screwed up like DH. It does not have the reputation it does for no reason.
And again with the false equivalency with the Infectious Fright. Of course it takes no skill, but it doesn't have the immediate impact that DH does. It's a common opinion among many that DH is probably the strongest perk in the game for a reason, and there is definitely a hierarchy here. With some perks being much stronger than others (and some OP).
If that wasn't the case, people would just add perks at random.
Saying "no perks take skill to use, so all perk usage is equal in terms of reflecting player skill" is absurd.
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It is not that simple, really.
Sometimes you are just more greedy when using dead hard and go for another loop instead of less. It is not always "the mistake eraser".
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You still dont get it.
If I have Dead Hard, I can make another Loop, because I can get away with it. I know that I can do that, so I am doing it.
If I dont have Dead Hard, I cannot make another Loop. But this does not mean that I try to do it, I drop the Pallet.
In both scenarios, I dont go down. And in both scenarios I did not screw up.
You are just repeating what I already called wrong before. This does not make it more right.
And I just compared it to Infectious Fright, because the outcome (aka a better player will be better use of the Perk) is roughly the same. You can say the same about Ruin. It takes 0 Skill to use Ruin. However, the better Killer player will actually get some use out of it, the Killer player who ignores players on Gens will not get use out of it.
This also does not have anything to do with impact. Impact is a thing you bring into the discussion, but it does not matter for that specific case.
No Perk in DBD requires Skill. But players who are more skilled can get more use out of those Perks.
Saying that DH requires no Skill is just the opinion of frustrated Killers who want to call Survivors bad, even if they were not bad, because they make the choice to get another Loop, because they knew they would get away with it.
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Uh, I think it's very easy to argue that survivor is easier to play than killer. And the perks are easier than killer for the most part too.
DS? Hit spacebar. Rewards failure.
Unbreakable? Hold M1. Rewards failure.
DH? Push E. Rewards both failure and greed but mostly just used to cover mistakes.
Iron will? Best passive perk in the game
etc
Now for killer perks?
Pop? Rewards success, Won't do anything if the killer isn't applying pressure
Ruin? Rewards success. Won't do anything if the killer isn't applying pressure
SH:PR? Rewards success. Won't do anything if the killer isn't applying pressure
etc
Probably about the only thing killer has that rewards failure is NOED but survivors have like 15 perks to cover up terrible play.
Survivor is built around the team being able to make tons of mistakes and get reward. Killer does not have that luxury. You play like ######### as killer and you will lose. You play like ######### as survivor and you can still get carried by perks.
DH is a problem because it means every survivor is running around with a 3rd health state with essentially no penalty. All the other exhaustion perks have some sort of stipulation or drawback. But not DH. The only drawback to DH is 1 shot killers and even then you can still just stay injured.
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Even if they nerf it there's always gonna be something annoying, for example sprint at 99, but still, they didn't announce any nerf so don't get your hopes up
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Why must you lie. The perks "Urban Evasion" and "Monstrous Shrine" takes a lot of skill to use properly!
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Oh we'll just have to see what they do cause if it's going to be like the COH "nerf" then it all but proves the devs are survivor biased and only care about profit.
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And with that allowing more killer to just leave since the game isn't fun anymore thanks to the devs basically appeasing to survivors.
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Try saying that when they use it as egc to get to the gate area. DH is a safety net perk and IMO needs to be gutted cause there no reason to have this be the one perk that turns survivor into baby mode.
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Most other exhaustion perks require some activation condition. SB requires management to get it to 99%, Lithe requires a window, BL requires falling off a structure, Smash Hit, well, you know. DH only requires being injured, which is not the survivor's merit, but the killer's, and the survivor only needs to press a button to prolong the chase, unlike the other perks mentioned. It's a righteous outrage, just compare it to the other exhaustion perks rather than a generic comment that all perks don't need skill.
If DH weren't so unskilled, you'd see a greater diversity of exhaust perks in the game, unlike the classic 4 DH.
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You know that you are answering to a comment which is 1 year old? The change which was mentioned was to make it actually work with Dedicated Servers.
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Well it's a year later and it's still an issue so what's the difference. Like I said in another post to it if they do something like COH "nerf" then killers are going to leave even more than now.
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What “huge buffs” have come to just survivors? I guess you completely forgot about the DMS buff that pretty much made it ridiculously strong with Pain R and also the perk by itself starting to be a problem on Artist. What about the addition of Deadlock that hasn’t been nerfed yet and is incredibly strong? Are you just going to disregard all that because you want to make the assumption the devs are survivor sided?
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It's funny because it never got nerfed and actually got a buff.
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What “huge buffs” have come to just survivors?
- Boons. CoH in particular.
- The CoH nerf clearly being a hollow gesture to make Killers shut up without depriving Survivors of their OP perk.
- Boil Over being broken as all heck.
- The Quality Of Life wriggle change containing a Survivor buff because they literally can't alter anything in this game without giving Survivors something in return.
Did I miss any Survivor buffs?
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Ans why do you need scratch marks? Logically if you move faster you’ll down is, not because you’re better
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Was DH through bear traps still a thing a year ago? I was hoping they'd fix it before 2023, but maybe I should lower my expectations.
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Unfortunately not yet. But it seems they are finally keeping their eyes on it.
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Why did someone bring this thread up?
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I mean I guess you were right. Dead hard is being looked at
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To talk about the inevitable nerf of DH, while reflecting on the situation from about a year ago contra today.
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Thats not my point here. Point is that dead hard is just too good of a perk and should be nerfed because every survivor uses it. It also promotes bad plays because it allows you to be as greedy as you want to be and still get away with it. That is not healthy for the game. If you lose a mindgame to a killer or you get outplayed then you should not just easily get away with it just by pressing E.
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So we are saying that just because the killer is slightly faster than survivors they should be able to down survivors ? Are you aware that there are windows and pallets and line of sight blockers right ? Or are you just trying to act stupid ? Scratch marks are there for tracking, one still needs to use their skill to down survivors.
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Well said. I tried playing survivor without DH and it just feels so much more fair. You have to make better decisions because if you fail a mindgame then you die. Honestly they should rework dead hard so that whenever you use it, you cannot vault a window or a pallet for the next 3 seconds. That would solve the issue of dead hard being used for distance to make it to a window or pallet and then it can be used to dodge hits.
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The reason for the surge of complaints is because of validation, Killers don't like validation. They like being able to get laggy hits based on what they see. The killers have a tremendous advantage over survivors every single match in the form of latency. Survivors have to account for their own latency plus that of the killers with no way to see that information. So now that DH validates the hit, it's a big problem for killers that are accustomed to their hits always connecting.
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Are you sure ability to dodge lunge 100% of times is fine perk?
It's like instadowning survivor every 60 seconds.
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It's not 100% of the time, it's the server being the authority and making the decision. Other than DH and pallets, everything is still handled on the killers end. This provides an incredible advantage over survivors. So as things begin to shift to server authority, people who are accustomed to getting laggy hits will complain that it's not fair. They need to wean these people off of everything being managed on the killers end.
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It's 100% of the time now though, you can see killers swinging and press E for free one more life.
Since dead hard started to work "correctly", it's broken nature showed up.
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You don't know what you're talking about, it's not 100% of the time. What you're seeing is latency and the server rejecting the hit. There are many discussions about this, not going to rehash this. Just look it up if you're interested in learning about it.
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I don't care that that the hit doesn't connect; if it's a miss it's a miss. Play enough killer and you have a pretty decent sense of when a hit is cheap, and I do not mind not getting cheap hits.
What bothers me is the feedback; you often get all the same feedback as you would on a down - scream, blood, etc. At that point I am looking for the next surv or going for the pickup, except the survivor is running off into the distance. It really throws you off.
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