Small Doctor Nerf
Survivors don’t start gaining madness by his terror radius until they are directly shocked by the Doctor at least once. Once they’ve been shocked once they can begin passively gaining madness.
Reasons:
-Doctor doesn’t get a free “here I am” notification by just walking around and not actually looking for survivors
-Better rewards survivors who are good at hiding/evading
Comments
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No, this would be dumb. The Doctor is already slower in this mode and there's some Doc's who don't play with range extending add-on's and would render 2 of his add-on's useless which both increase the madness gained from the static field. Doc isn't a Killer you're supposed to be able to stealth from. He's the only Killer that can do this.
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@DarXide said:
No, this would be dumb. The Doctor is already slower in this mode and there's some Doc's who don't play with range extending add-on's and would render 2 of his add-on's useless which both increase the madness gained from the static field. Doc isn't a Killer you're supposed to be able to stealth from. He's the only Killer that can do this.So far all of the doctors in my games all use range extending addons and do nothing but spam electrode as they roam the map. They don't even bother going to the edges just patrol to where they're pretty much guaranteed of nailing someone. Once the person hits phase 3 then they go after them but until then roam and spam.
Also it's not about stealth but about actually being able to especially on really small maps cough Haddonfield cough a chance to dog ens, and actually not get nailed in eh 1st 30 secs of the match.
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@GhostEuant said:
A small but maybe meaningful nerf to the doctor suggestion:
Survivors don’t start gaining madness by his terror radius until they are directly shocked by the Doctor at least once. Once fhey’ve been shocked once they can behin passively gaining madness.Reasons:
-Doctor doesn’t get a free “here I am” notification by just walking around and not actually looking for survivors
-Better rewards survivors who are good at hiding/evadingWhat is buffed in compensation? If you suggest a nerf on a killer who is already weak, then its kinda pathetic
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Doctor is made to find suvivers with his ability, i don't think he needs a nerf like this, it would make him basically useless, you would have to find a suvive witch some people struggle with or shock randomly and hope for the best. I am a suviver main and i don't agree with this.
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The main point of Doctor is to change the way the game is played.
It may sound unfair for him to be efficient against Stealth players, but it's just how he has been designed in the first place.
Playing against Doc is a battle against Time, since he WILL find you soon enough. That's how it is and how it should stay. Nerfing a "decent" killer would just make him boring to play on the long run.He just requires you to play very differently, and mostly to understand one factor : a killer cannot pressure more than one survivor at a times. Being in a terror radius do not change that fact, even if that one is huge or giving madness.
Obviously, he can distrupt many players, and that's what he should do if he wanna win, however, but it can be dealt with decently if you are well aware of what he is able to do/not able to do.8 -
@Runiver said:
The main point of Doctor is to change the way the game is played.
It may sound unfair for him to be efficient against Stealth players, but it's just how he has been designed in the first place.
Playing against Doc is a battle against Time, since he WILL find you soon enough. That's how it is and how it should stay. Nerfing a "decent" killer would just make him boring to play on the long run.He just requires you to play very differently, and mostly to understand one factor : a killer cannot pressure more than one survivor at a times. Being in a terror radius do not change that fact, even if that one is huge or giving madness.
Obviously, he can distrupt many players, and that's what he should do if he wanna win, however, but it can be dealt with decently if you are well aware of what he is able to do/not able to do.Agreed !!
Fully perked/addon DR on Gideons is one of the most stressful games I think I have ever played
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@TeambossFloze said:
@Runiver said:
The main point of Doctor is to change the way the game is played.
It may sound unfair for him to be efficient against Stealth players, but it's just how he has been designed in the first place.
Playing against Doc is a battle against Time, since he WILL find you soon enough. That's how it is and how it should stay. Nerfing a "decent" killer would just make him boring to play on the long run.He just requires you to play very differently, and mostly to understand one factor : a killer cannot pressure more than one survivor at a times. Being in a terror radius do not change that fact, even if that one is huge or giving madness.
Obviously, he can distrupt many players, and that's what he should do if he wanna win, however, but it can be dealt with decently if you are well aware of what he is able to do/not able to do.Agreed !!
Fully perked/addon DR on Gideons is one of the most stressful games I think I have ever played
Doctor in Gideon is very discutable tho, tbh. Same with Nurse with Range add-ons, M&A and Nurse's calling, that can prove super hard to deal with due to the map design.
A great team can obviously power through, tho. But the rewards/advantage for playing Doc on that map is kinda huge lol.
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@Runiver said:
@TeambossFloze said:
@Runiver said:
The main point of Doctor is to change the way the game is played.
It may sound unfair for him to be efficient against Stealth players, but it's just how he has been designed in the first place.
Playing against Doc is a battle against Time, since he WILL find you soon enough. That's how it is and how it should stay. Nerfing a "decent" killer would just make him boring to play on the long run.He just requires you to play very differently, and mostly to understand one factor : a killer cannot pressure more than one survivor at a times. Being in a terror radius do not change that fact, even if that one is huge or giving madness.
Obviously, he can distrupt many players, and that's what he should do if he wanna win, however, but it can be dealt with decently if you are well aware of what he is able to do/not able to do.Agreed !!
Fully perked/addon DR on Gideons is one of the most stressful games I think I have ever played
Doctor in Gideon is very discutable tho, tbh. Same with Nurse with Range add-ons, M&A and Nurse's calling, that can prove super hard to deal with due to the map design.
A great team can obviously power through, tho. But the rewards/advantage for playing Doc on that map is kinda huge lol.
Yeah I think its just because he isn't balanced to work vertically so if your underneath him on the lower floor you get affected just like your on the same floor and I think that's the bit that needs reworking - if at all possible...but if I get the DR on Gideons - I just take a deep breath and like you said power on through and its totally beatable just really stressful sometimes lol
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Doc’s purpose is to make stealth harder. You’re supposed to play differently against him. This nerf is necessary and makes the Order series of add-ons nearly useless. Some Docs also don’t always range extending add-ons, so you’d be punishing them for no reason. The Killer is not supposed to give you a chance to do gens and if you get caught and downed in the first 90 seconds, then that’s most likely your fault and you deserve to get hooked (unless another Survivor helped the Killer out).0
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Wish granted, but the width and length of his shock is doubled and shock casting is a bit faster.0
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As someone who goes up against docs regularly almost all of them have the range extending addon and I've been working on gens while someone else gets chased 40 yards away. I get hit by the electrode at that range all the time and it isn't a case of finding stealthy players as much as the doctors just spam it non stop until they get you to phase 3 and or down you.
On Gideon's, Lery's and Haddonfield/Springfield they literally just have to walk around and do nothing but spam it. There's no skill involved there nor any counter to it and in solo queue it's rare to get a group that knows what their doing against him. It's even worse when the doctor just camps and walks back and forth with 40 yards of the hooked survivor and spams it. They'll interrupt saving and any gen work being done.
The only nerf I could see for him would be if you use the range extending it gets a 10 sec cd so you can't just spam it and make it so even with a cdr addon it still can't go below 7. If you're not using a cdr addon then give a addon they can ge to reduce charge time or something like this.
I'm looking at this from the point of a solo queue player since in SVF that enrf isn't needed unless it's a duo in which case buff against SVF.
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@powerbats said:
As someone who goes up against docs regularly almost all of them have the range extending addon and I've been working on gens while someone else gets chased 40 yards away. I get hit by the electrode at that range all the time and it isn't a case of finding stealthy players as much as the doctors just spam it non stop until they get you to phase 3 and or down you.On Gideon's, Lery's and Haddonfield/Springfield they literally just have to walk around and do nothing but spam it. There's no skill involved there nor any counter to it and in solo queue it's rare to get a group that knows what their doing against him. It's even worse when the doctor just camps and walks back and forth with 40 yards of the hooked survivor and spams it. They'll interrupt saving and any gen work being done.
The only nerf I could see for him would be if you use the range extending it gets a 10 sec cd so you can't just spam it and make it so even with a cdr addon it still can't go below 7. If you're not using a cdr addon then give a addon they can ge to reduce charge time or something like this.
I'm looking at this from the point of a solo queue player since in SVF that enrf isn't needed unless it's a duo in which case buff against SVF.
I doc main as killer and solo as survivor. He doesn't need any type of nerf except that remaining crouch would drastically decrease madness gain(lower to the ground/grounded, if you know how electricity works). However, Doctor is so easily looped its not even funny. If his shock therapy actually hurt you besides putting you in a madness tier, then yes he would be OP. As it is, you HAVE to run an addon that causes Exhaustion like Iridescent King or Obedience.
10 seconds would be extremely long to cooldown his ability. If it hurt you, then sure.
Also, Doc spamming his shock leaves his terror radius unable to raise your madness. The moment you start charging, your terror rad stops emitting electricity. IIRC he's the only killer that doesnt have an addon that reduces charge time. So Doctor has a drastic disadvantage. Unless they run Ruin and protect it, Doc will get gen-rushed almost every time and considering 70%+ of games are "SWF", i doubt he will get any type of nerf anytime soon.
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@projecteulogy said:
@powerbats said:
As someone who goes up against docs regularly almost all of them have the range extending addon and I've been working on gens while someone else gets chased 40 yards away. I get hit by the electrode at that range all the time and it isn't a case of finding stealthy players as much as the doctors just spam it non stop until they get you to phase 3 and or down you.On Gideon's, Lery's and Haddonfield/Springfield they literally just have to walk around and do nothing but spam it. There's no skill involved there nor any counter to it and in solo queue it's rare to get a group that knows what their doing against him. It's even worse when the doctor just camps and walks back and forth with 40 yards of the hooked survivor and spams it. They'll interrupt saving and any gen work being done.
The only nerf I could see for him would be if you use the range extending it gets a 10 sec cd so you can't just spam it and make it so even with a cdr addon it still can't go below 7. If you're not using a cdr addon then give a addon they can ge to reduce charge time or something like this.
I'm looking at this from the point of a solo queue player since in SVF that enrf isn't needed unless it's a duo in which case buff against SVF.
I doc main as killer and solo as survivor. He doesn't need any type of nerf except that remaining crouch would drastically decrease madness gain(lower to the ground/grounded, if you know how electricity works). However, Doctor is so easily looped its not even funny. If his shock therapy actually hurt you besides putting you in a madness tier, then yes he would be OP. As it is, you HAVE to run an addon that causes Exhaustion like Iridescent King or Obedience.
10 seconds would be extremely long to cooldown his ability. If it hurt you, then sure.
Also, Doc spamming his shock leaves his terror radius unable to raise your madness. The moment you start charging, your terror rad stops emitting electricity. IIRC he's the only killer that doesnt have an addon that reduces charge time. So Doctor has a drastic disadvantage. Unless they run Ruin and protect it, Doc will get gen-rushed almost every time and considering 70%+ of games are "SWF", i doubt he will get any type of nerf anytime soon.
The bolded part is only true at higher tiers since solo queue I've had probably 10-15 groups in total as a survivor and 5 as a killer. But for solo his extended range is op considering group make up and most doctors are all highly ranked/prestiged and have intentionally deranked to farm.
There was a doctor I'll have to see if I took a screenshot of it or not that had a reduced charged time addon going.Which is why I suggest a longer cd on charge time. The Calm Carters notes increases the terror radius while charging. He also has Monitor and Abuse to increase the terror radius so if he has the 75% range and the 2 things he's going to destroy on the 2 smaller maps and even the larger ones he's super hard.
Again solo queue low ranked is where the biggest issue lies since in SVF it's easier for the group to counter him.
But this brings back the problem of they can't really fix this until they rewrite the code from scratch in order to balance the 2 queues better.
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@powerbats said:
@projecteulogy said:
@powerbats said:
As someone who goes up against docs regularly almost all of them have the range extending addon and I've been working on gens while someone else gets chased 40 yards away. I get hit by the electrode at that range all the time and it isn't a case of finding stealthy players as much as the doctors just spam it non stop until they get you to phase 3 and or down you.On Gideon's, Lery's and Haddonfield/Springfield they literally just have to walk around and do nothing but spam it. There's no skill involved there nor any counter to it and in solo queue it's rare to get a group that knows what their doing against him. It's even worse when the doctor just camps and walks back and forth with 40 yards of the hooked survivor and spams it. They'll interrupt saving and any gen work being done.
The only nerf I could see for him would be if you use the range extending it gets a 10 sec cd so you can't just spam it and make it so even with a cdr addon it still can't go below 7. If you're not using a cdr addon then give a addon they can ge to reduce charge time or something like this.
I'm looking at this from the point of a solo queue player since in SVF that enrf isn't needed unless it's a duo in which case buff against SVF.
I doc main as killer and solo as survivor. He doesn't need any type of nerf except that remaining crouch would drastically decrease madness gain(lower to the ground/grounded, if you know how electricity works). However, Doctor is so easily looped its not even funny. If his shock therapy actually hurt you besides putting you in a madness tier, then yes he would be OP. As it is, you HAVE to run an addon that causes Exhaustion like Iridescent King or Obedience.
10 seconds would be extremely long to cooldown his ability. If it hurt you, then sure.
Also, Doc spamming his shock leaves his terror radius unable to raise your madness. The moment you start charging, your terror rad stops emitting electricity. IIRC he's the only killer that doesnt have an addon that reduces charge time. So Doctor has a drastic disadvantage. Unless they run Ruin and protect it, Doc will get gen-rushed almost every time and considering 70%+ of games are "SWF", i doubt he will get any type of nerf anytime soon.
The bolded part is only true at higher tiers since solo queue I've had probably 10-15 groups in total as a survivor and 5 as a killer. But for solo his extended range is op considering group make up and most doctors are all highly ranked/prestiged and have intentionally deranked to farm.
There was a doctor I'll have to see if I took a screenshot of it or not that had a reduced charged time addon going.Which is why I suggest a longer cd on charge time. The Calm Carters notes increases the terror radius while charging. He also has Monitor and Abuse to increase the terror radius so if he has the 75% range and the 2 things he's going to destroy on the 2 smaller maps and even the larger ones he's super hard.
Again solo queue low ranked is where the biggest issue lies since in SVF it's easier for the group to counter him.
But this brings back the problem of they can't really fix this until they rewrite the code from scratch in order to balance the 2 queues better.
I see your argument clearly. Like Wraith, Freddy, and LF he's easily countered at higher levels. But i don't see any addon that decreases Doc's charge time. Only increases it. The addons that are troubling you increase his overall range but also increase the charge time. Monitor and Abuse only affects his terror radius, not his shock therapy which is what applies his status effects.
Tbh, i run Whispers, Ruin, BBQ, and Distressing. My addons range from any one of the electrodes along with Calm or Iridescent King. If there was damage to be done by his shock therapy over time by looping survivors, i would take the CD gladly. But until then, doctor is endlessly looped, even with tier 3 bloodlust because it disappears once you down a pallet which IMO is silly.
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Oh I totally understand the looping thing and hopefully it gets fixed sooner rather than later.
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You're supposed to intentionally get into Madness 1 as quickly as possible so that he loses his free-find and is forced to find you properly and shock you later on. As soon as you hear a scream, get off your generator and rush into the Doctor's terror radius without being seen. Then leave as soon as you get into Madness 1.
Also, no killer but the Nurse should ever be considered for nerfs, and not until survivors receive more nerfs and other killers get a bunch of buffs.
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You’re joking right? Doctor already has to extend his chases, which leaves him highly susceptible to gen rushing. That cooldown to his zaps would make him even more susceptible to gen rushing. He’d go from mid tier to low tier quickly. Maybe if you would actually try to beat him instead of whining, you would see he doesn’t need any nerfs.powerbats said:As someone who goes up against docs regularly almost all of them have the range extending addon and I've been working on gens while someone else gets chased 40 yards away. I get hit by the electrode at that range all the time and it isn't a case of finding stealthy players as much as the doctors just spam it non stop until they get you to phase 3 and or down you.
On Gideon's, Lery's and Haddonfield/Springfield they literally just have to walk around and do nothing but spam it. There's no skill involved there nor any counter to it and in solo queue it's rare to get a group that knows what their doing against him. It's even worse when the doctor just camps and walks back and forth with 40 yards of the hooked survivor and spams it. They'll interrupt saving and any gen work being done.
The only nerf I could see for him would be if you use the range extending it gets a 10 sec cd so you can't just spam it and make it so even with a cdr addon it still can't go below 7. If you're not using a cdr addon then give a addon they can ge to reduce charge time or something like this.
I'm looking at this from the point of a solo queue player since in SVF that enrf isn't needed unless it's a duo in which case buff against SVF.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=shuwUoqRcQg
You up can still Stealth a Doc. You just have to micro-manage your Madness and scream when it doesn’t matter.
However, I’m open to nerfs on the premise Looping gets made much less powerful. I’m talking more than just he vacuum removal. It has to be hit HARD. Not just down graded from 3 Loops to 2.1 -
If you get into a locker you'll stop accruing madness.
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/10chars1 -
@Kilrane said:
If you get into a locker you'll stop accruing madness.But what if I don't find a locker? What do I do then huh? I gotta be able to counter all the Killers and win without any skill at all, you entitled Killer scrub.
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I'd just separate the static field from his terror radius. Just adjust his add-ons to adjust the size of it directly.
You would still be able to have a large static field radius stacking certain add-ons, but it wouldn't be AS oppressive if you're also running things like Iridescent King.
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The doctor is a in a great place and you just have to play against the screams and time when to try and snap out of it. It is all about how you play against a killer and doc is no different..
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@Zanfer I'd agree, for the most part.
Biggest issue the doctor has right now (in my opinion) isn't his mechanics, but HOW people choose to use them. The lock-down strategy many people use him for is boring to play against for many people. No other killer can just stall the game as well as the doc can.
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@TreblucFayle said:
@Zanfer I'd agree, for the most part.Biggest issue the doctor has right now (in my opinion) isn't his mechanics, but HOW people choose to use them. The lock-down strategy many people use him for is boring to play against for many people. No other killer can just stall the game as well as the doc can.
sorry but what do you mean by "lockdown"? You mean putting people in constant madness 3???
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Constant madness 3 is part of it. But mostly it's committing to a 3 gen strat from the very start of the game. Usually involves running Ruin/ Distressing/ Unnerving Presence/ Overcharge. Not chasing anyone unless they are near one of the select gens, and not trying to actually catch/down anyone. They "lock-down" the game until the survivors either give up or the killer makes a mistake.
This "strategy" can be overwhelming even to experienced players. And while other killers can do this as well, the Doctor can control such a large area at once that it becomes almost impossible to recover from.
This causes many people to not even play Doctor games and DC immediately. Even before they have any confirmation that the player is doing this. They leave because they "might" do it.
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@TreblucFayle said:
@Zanfer I'd agree, for the most part.Biggest issue the doctor has right now (in my opinion) isn't his mechanics, but HOW people choose to use them. The lock-down strategy many people use him for is boring to play against for many people. No other killer can just stall the game as well as the doc can.
This is my biggest issue when all he does is nothing but spam electrode with 25+ extended range and sues the extended terror radius to do it. When you're getting hit non stop 25-60 yards way and above and below him through floors/walls you can't do much. There's several maps where the doctor does only that until he gets everyone to stage 3 and or hit and downed. The inevitable ace ensues and quite a few brag in post game chat about how it was too ez and git gud.
This isn't the one I wanted but it still illustrates the issue with the extended range and using terror radius that's extended. I got nailed by a doctor on this map who was near where the red was and around the corner chasing someone else. I've also been hit from the other side of the building and further away to show you how stupidly broken that is.
Some perfect examples are Gideons, Haddonfield/Springfield/Lery's and even Backwater Swamp where he just runs down the center and spams electrode and hits everyone. This isn't about git gud or learning to counterplay.since there is none in those situations. He can even be extremely oppressive on Crotus and Red Forest even more so than other killers.
As @TreblucFayle said adjust it which is what those of us that have issues with how he currently is really want. He needs to be balanced so that in low rank solo queue he doesn't almost always get 4 sacrifices. for higher ranks and or against SVF groups he can be stronger but now it takes no skill to just spam electrode all game.
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@powerbats whether or not he gets 4 kills every game should not be the point.
All I'm advocating for is that they somehow limit his ability to take a game hostage.
I'm also confused as to whether you're talking about his static field or shock therapy. In your picture, there is no way (even with add-ons) that a shock therapy could reach you at that range. His static field could affect you, but that's passive and can't be "spammed" as you said.
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@TreblucFayle said:
@powerbats whether or not he gets 4 kills every game should not be the point.All I'm advocating for is that they somehow limit his ability to take a game hostage.
I'm also confused as to whether you're talking about his static field or shock therapy. In your picture, there is no way (even with add-ons) that a shock therapy could reach you at that range. His static field could affect you, but that's passive and can't be "spammed" as you said.
I agree with the hostage taking part but I've been getting hit with shock therapy from those ranges which is what's making me think it needs a nerf/adjustment. The static field I know can reach really far but it also gives an indication based upon ticks how close he is.
But the shock therapy range is stupidly long at the moment and once I finally find the screenshot of where I got hit with doctor in shot chasing someone else I'll post it.
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@TreblucFayle said:
Constant madness 3 is part of it. But mostly it's committing to a 3 gen strat from the very start of the game. Usually involves running Ruin/ Distressing/ Unnerving Presence/ Overcharge. Not chasing anyone unless they are near one of the select gens, and not trying to actually catch/down anyone. They "lock-down" the game until the survivors either give up or the killer makes a mistake.This "strategy" can be overwhelming even to experienced players. And while other killers can do this as well, the Doctor can control such a large area at once that it becomes almost impossible to recover from.
This causes many people to not even play Doctor games and DC immediately. Even before they have any confirmation that the player is doing this. They leave because they "might" do it.
If you play it right you can deny him the 3 gen strat by taking out the gens that he really wants while he chases other people.
"Overwhelming to experienced players" are you experienced? What I stated above ^ just deny the 3 gen strat.
Even if they dc that isn't my problem, it is their own fault they waste time on a game that they waited for and decided not to play it cause of a killer being played. He can't defend all 3 gens he wants at the same time.
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@powerbats said:
@TreblucFayle said:
@powerbats whether or not he gets 4 kills every game should not be the point.All I'm advocating for is that they somehow limit his ability to take a game hostage.
I'm also confused as to whether you're talking about his static field or shock therapy. In your picture, there is no way (even with add-ons) that a shock therapy could reach you at that range. His static field could affect you, but that's passive and can't be "spammed" as you said.
I agree with the hostage taking part but I've been getting hit with shock therapy from those ranges which is what's making me think it needs a nerf/adjustment. The static field I know can reach really far but it also gives an indication based upon ticks how close he is.
But the shock therapy range is stupidly long at the moment and once I finally find the screenshot of where I got hit with doctor in shot chasing someone else I'll post it.
depends on how close you are to this killer. Should try staying a great distance from him while he chases other people so he doesn't shock you or be as stealthy as you can during the time which is possible if you are trying to going past him, not following him.
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@Zanfer said:
@powerbats said:
@TreblucFayle said:
@powerbats whether or not he gets 4 kills every game should not be the point.All I'm advocating for is that they somehow limit his ability to take a game hostage.
I'm also confused as to whether you're talking about his static field or shock therapy. In your picture, there is no way (even with add-ons) that a shock therapy could reach you at that range. His static field could affect you, but that's passive and can't be "spammed" as you said.
I agree with the hostage taking part but I've been getting hit with shock therapy from those ranges which is what's making me think it needs a nerf/adjustment. The static field I know can reach really far but it also gives an indication based upon ticks how close he is.
But the shock therapy range is stupidly long at the moment and once I finally find the screenshot of where I got hit with doctor in shot chasing someone else I'll post it.
depends on how close you are to this killer. Should try staying a great distance from him while he chases other people so he doesn't shock you or be as stealthy as you can during the time which is possible if you are trying to going past him, not following him.
The one I was referring to I was doing a gen near that same building but a bit further away but same map. I saw him coming due to the survivor running down right side of the bldg so I crouched backwards and went behind a rock in case the person ran towards me. (Some survivors are jerks and will intentionally run a killer into you to get away.)
The person ran in front of the building and doctor did as well and did shock therapy right in front of opening and got the person he was chasing. But also myself and the person who decided to stay on gen so we both screamed giving away our positions. We also got the 1st stack and it quickly went south from there which is why I've got an issue with the range being so huge.
Doing what you suggested doesn't work on small maps and or if the person gets within x distance depending on extended range/terror radius being extended.
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I'm a 2k+ hour Killer main and I actually like this idea. I think it would be a fiar change but only after the balance is fixed. Killers don't need a nerf right now. They need fair maps, fair mechanics, and slight buffs. Until then, no bad change for Killers.
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@CallMeRusty420 said:
I'm a 2k+ hour Killer main and I actually like this idea. I think it would be a fiar change but only after the balance is fixed. Killers don't need a nerf right now. They need fair maps, fair mechanics, and slight buffs. Until then, no bad change for Killers.I'm hopeful after the patch hits and they get some time to see how things go they'll start working on the real problem which is SWF groups and high ranked play/SWF groups. It'd be really nice if their was 2 different queues, one for ranked and 1 for casual play. That might make it easier to balance things so that the higher you go especially as a survivor(most definitely SWF groups) the more powerful the killer gets and or the weaker your perks get.
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No, this would absolutely gimp the Doc. He's already a mid tier Kiler. He's perfect how he is.
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@powerbats said:
@Zanfer said:
@powerbats said:
@TreblucFayle said:
@powerbats whether or not he gets 4 kills every game should not be the point.All I'm advocating for is that they somehow limit his ability to take a game hostage.
I'm also confused as to whether you're talking about his static field or shock therapy. In your picture, there is no way (even with add-ons) that a shock therapy could reach you at that range. His static field could affect you, but that's passive and can't be "spammed" as you said.
I agree with the hostage taking part but I've been getting hit with shock therapy from those ranges which is what's making me think it needs a nerf/adjustment. The static field I know can reach really far but it also gives an indication based upon ticks how close he is.
But the shock therapy range is stupidly long at the moment and once I finally find the screenshot of where I got hit with doctor in shot chasing someone else I'll post it.
depends on how close you are to this killer. Should try staying a great distance from him while he chases other people so he doesn't shock you or be as stealthy as you can during the time which is possible if you are trying to going past him, not following him.
The one I was referring to I was doing a gen near that same building but a bit further away but same map. I saw him coming due to the survivor running down right side of the bldg so I crouched backwards and went behind a rock in case the person ran towards me. (Some survivors are jerks and will intentionally run a killer into you to get away.)
The person ran in front of the building and doctor did as well and did shock therapy right in front of opening and got the person he was chasing. But also myself and the person who decided to stay on gen so we both screamed giving away our positions. We also got the 1st stack and it quickly went south from there which is why I've got an issue with the range being so huge.
Doing what you suggested doesn't work on small maps and or if the person gets within x distance depending on extended range/terror radius being extended.
Yeah the small maps makes sense. I can see why you think it needs a nerf.
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Why, I almost always escape poor doctor, he isn’t really that usefulGhostEuant said:A small but maybe meaningful nerf to the doctor suggestion:
Survivors don’t start gaining madness by his terror radius until they are directly shocked by the Doctor at least once. Once they’ve been shocked once they can begin passively gaining madness.
Reasons:
-Doctor doesn’t get a free “here I am” notification by just walking around and not actually looking for survivors
-Better rewards survivors who are good at hiding/evading0 -
I rarely see that happen, and poor doctor needs no nerfTreblucFayle said:Constant madness 3 is part of it. But mostly it's committing to a 3 gen strat from the very start of the game. Usually involves running Ruin/ Distressing/ Unnerving Presence/ Overcharge. Not chasing anyone unless they are near one of the select gens, and not trying to actually catch/down anyone. They "lock-down" the game until the survivors either give up or the killer makes a mistake.
This "strategy" can be overwhelming even to experienced players. And while other killers can do this as well, the Doctor can control such a large area at once that it becomes almost impossible to recover from.
This causes many people to not even play Doctor games and DC immediately. Even before they have any confirmation that the player is doing this. They leave because they "might" do it.
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@KiraElijah said:
I rarely see that happen, and poor doctor needs no nerf
Lower ranks it's pretty standard in the 15-20 range.
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@powerbats said:
@KiraElijah said:
I rarely see that happen, and poor doctor needs no nerf
Lower ranks it's pretty standard in the 15-20 range.
Just because low ranks dont know how to overcome it doesnt mean he needs a nerf.
This is the same crap that got Freddy sent into oblivion.
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@weirdkid5 said:
@powerbats said:
@KiraElijah said:
I rarely see that happen, and poor doctor needs no nerf
Lower ranks it's pretty standard in the 15-20 range.
Just because low ranks dont know how to overcome it doesnt mean he needs a nerf.
This is the same crap that got Freddy sent into oblivion.
Don't you mean that just because it can be abused on small maps doesn't mean it's need an adjustment? Oh and inb4 you try the low ranks stuff again I'e been in groups with really high ranked players who got nailed just as easily.
If you look even some of the high ranked players have agreed it needs to be adjusted since otherwise you just encourage the survivors to go hide/loop endlessly more than they might normally do.
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Lol high rank means nothing currently.powerbats said:@weirdkid5 said:
@powerbats said:
@KiraElijah said:
I rarely see that happen, and poor doctor needs no nerf
Lower ranks it's pretty standard in the 15-20 range.
Just because low ranks dont know how to overcome it doesnt mean he needs a nerf.
This is the same crap that got Freddy sent into oblivion.
Don't you mean that just because it can be abused on small maps doesn't mean it's need an adjustment? Oh and inb4 you try the low ranks stuff again I'e been in groups with really high ranked players who got nailed just as easily.
If you look even some of the high ranked players have agreed it needs to be adjusted since otherwise you just encourage the survivors to go hide/loop endlessly more than they might normally do.
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@powerbats said:
@weirdkid5 said:
@powerbats said:
@KiraElijah said:
I rarely see that happen, and poor doctor needs no nerf
Lower ranks it's pretty standard in the 15-20 range.
Just because low ranks dont know how to overcome it doesnt mean he needs a nerf.
This is the same crap that got Freddy sent into oblivion.
Don't you mean that just because it can be abused on small maps doesn't mean it's need an adjustment? Oh and inb4 you try the low ranks stuff again I'e been in groups with really high ranked players who got nailed just as easily.
If you look even some of the high ranked players have agreed it needs to be adjusted since otherwise you just encourage the survivors to go hide/loop endlessly more than they might normally do.
High rank players can be potatoes too. Doctor doesn't need a nerf. He can still only chase one person at a time, and refusing to down to attempt to kill someone after a long period of time and ONLY focusing gen regression can be considered holding the game hostage, as the Killer isn't attempting to complete his objective and is only impeding the progress of the Survivors.
At some point he has to come out of Treatment mode to chase around. Staying in treatment mode will never catch him anyone. I know we all have a hard time using them, but we were given brains to think through situations like these.
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@weirdkid5 said:
At some point he has to come out of Treatment mode to chase around. Staying in treatment mode will never catch him anyone. I know we all have a hard time using them, but we were given brains to think through situations like these.
I agree he has to come out of treatment mode at some time but usually when it happens he's already held the game hostage for 5+ minutes or more of doing nothing but getting ppl to stage 2 madness or worse. My issue is with the terror radius affecting his shock therapy radius.
It'd be one thing if like Trapper etc it affected skill checks but when he can hit you 30-50+ yards away and through walls/floors just by patrolling the center of the small to mid size maps it's an issue. While I dislike the skill checks as a survivor with increased terror radius they can be dealt with.
As I posted in my screenshot when I'm that far away i shouldn't be getting hit by shock therapy while he's chasing someone else. Against a SWF group it's a whole different ball game since he needs that but in a bunch of my game slately both as kill and survivor i've been going up against ppl up to 13 ranks above me.
I'd just like to see it balanced better without nerfing him in higher ranks/against SWF groups. I don't want him nerfed into the ground just balanced better is all.
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@GhostEuant said:
A small but maybe meaningful nerf to the doctor suggestion:
Survivors don’t start gaining madness by his terror radius until they are directly shocked by the Doctor at least once. Once they’ve been shocked once they can begin passively gaining madness.Reasons:
-Doctor doesn’t get a free “here I am” notification by just walking around and not actually looking for survivors
-Better rewards survivors who are good at hiding/evadingYes I agree lets nerf the killers that are low to mid tier so they're even worse so we have even less reason to play with them..... have you never faced a good Nurse, Billy, or Huntress? You're in for a rude awakening once you face one.
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@easi_solstice said:
@GhostEuant said:
A small but maybe meaningful nerf to the doctor suggestion:
Survivors don’t start gaining madness by his terror radius until they are directly shocked by the Doctor at least once. Once they’ve been shocked once they can begin passively gaining madness.Reasons:
-Doctor doesn’t get a free “here I am” notification by just walking around and not actually looking for survivors
-Better rewards survivors who are good at hiding/evadingYes I agree lets nerf the killers that are low to mid tier so they're even worse so we have even less reason to play with them..... have you never faced a good Nurse, Billy, or Huntress? You're in for a rude awakening once you face one.
Translation lets ignore the issue and blame it on other things instead of actually looking for a balanced solution. That's like blaming the fact the doctor isn't meta at high ranks because he's not the best killer. Well there's always going to be a meta both for killers and survivors at higher ranks. There isn't a game out that that doesn't have this issue so stop using that as an excuse.
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@powerbats said:
@easi_solstice said:
@GhostEuant said:
A small but maybe meaningful nerf to the doctor suggestion:
Survivors don’t start gaining madness by his terror radius until they are directly shocked by the Doctor at least once. Once they’ve been shocked once they can begin passively gaining madness.Reasons:
-Doctor doesn’t get a free “here I am” notification by just walking around and not actually looking for survivors
-Better rewards survivors who are good at hiding/evadingYes I agree lets nerf the killers that are low to mid tier so they're even worse so we have even less reason to play with them..... have you never faced a good Nurse, Billy, or Huntress? You're in for a rude awakening once you face one.
Translation lets ignore the issue and blame it on other things instead of actually looking for a balanced solution. That's like blaming the fact the doctor isn't meta at high ranks because he's not the best killer. Well there's always going to be a meta both for killers and survivors at higher ranks. There isn't a game out that that doesn't have this issue so stop using that as an excuse.
Ok if you want me to perfectly spell out why he doesn't need to be nerfed I will I didn't want to do a longer response but I will....
He can be looped like any other killer besides Nurse and DO NOT say oh he can shock them and stop it no he can't as long as it's a long look AKA 90% of loops they can stand on the complete opposite side of the pallet loop and be completely safe.
His power does literally nothing for him besides a bit of tracking but tracking is the weakest possible thing for a killers power a real killer gets power from a power that helps them in chases so Nurse can just blink through everything, Billy can instant down and has insane map pressure, and Huntress can throw over loops and do a melee hatchet + melee hit to down a survivor in seconds that is not near a loop.
That's pretty much it really.... he's just as weak as any other killer at chasing but actually weaker at low ranks because the Doc will try to shock a lot at loops which won't help. Only actual killers that I consider a "killer" are Nurse, Huntress, and Billy they're all amazing in a chase because Nurse blinks through everything, Billy can mind game pallets with his chainsaw though survivors may not fall for it, it'll make them drop the pallet if they know what you're trying to do and Huntress can throw hatchets over low loops and people can say "You can crouch" but the Huntress can simply keep it wound up walk around the corner and hit them anyway.
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Instead of trying to assume I haven’t faced other skilled killers, let’s focus on the suggestion.
Just saying the doctor is a mid-tier killer doesn’t mean he, or any killer, doesn’t need adjustment. If balancing is only done based on the top tiers of the current meta then the meta will begin/continue to exclude from it the killers/survivors who don’t have every perk/killer unlocked or the knowledge of what that meta is.
I’m open to the Doctor receiving a buff in another category to compensate BUT I feel that every killer’s mechanic should have a counter play. The stealth killers are countered by paying attention to your surroundings, for example. Right now unless you are close to a locker as he approaches there is nothing you can do while in the Doctor’s terror radius. And making the counter play exclusively “oh well there wasn’t a locker nearby now I’m found” or “okay there was a locker nearby I’m safe” isn’t good enough because no one can control locker position.
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Oh, please. The killer is already kinda weak. If anything, he needs buffs.
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@GhostEuant said:
Instead of trying to assume I haven’t faced other skilled killers, let’s focus on the suggestion.Just saying the doctor is a mid-tier killer doesn’t mean he, or any killer, doesn’t need adjustment. If balancing is only done based on the top tiers of the current meta then the meta will begin/continue to exclude from it the killers/survivors who don’t have every perk/killer unlocked or the knowledge of what that meta is.
I’m open to the Doctor receiving a buff in another category to compensate BUT I feel that every killer’s mechanic should have a counter play. The stealth killers are countered by paying attention to your surroundings, for example. Right now unless you are close to a locker as he approaches there is nothing you can do while in the Doctor’s terror radius. And making the counter play exclusively “oh well there wasn’t a locker nearby now I’m found” or “okay there was a locker nearby I’m safe” isn’t good enough because no one can control locker position.
What I said directly after that message explained why the Doc is not good in anyway he needs a buff but why do I expect people to read before typing stuff anymore.
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